Soooo, Kingmaker looks interesting, but I have no access to the first two portions of the AP affordably unless I get PDFs. I've thought about buying them, but it would only be a guide. If I don't get the two PDF's for the beginning, I also won't have information on what's gone on before in regards to 3,4,5, and 6.
I do have ultimate campaign. I've heard that it's basically a more polished version of what Kingmaker #2 presents, though I don't currently have the background in regards to what happens with that to the story.
How plausible or realistic is it to run KM but with only having parts 3-6. Also what suggestions would you have if I intend to do this.
I have thought perhaps of using the Dragon's Demand, and with the release of Bitter Manor, perhaps those two modules to fill in for the first two AP's of KM. Is that a good idea, or something else should be done?
Starting with Chapter 3 (Varnhold Vanishing) would be pretty weird, since it is widely known as the 'black sheep part' of the AP. It's story arc doesn't really relate with the overarching plot of Kingmaker.
It really represents a break in the rythm of the AP to allow the PCs' kingdom to grow while they are adventuring abroad, allowing the events of Chapter 4 to take place in a well-established kingdom. It is a great chapter, in my opinion, but not as an introduction to Kingmaker.
Plus, the first two chapters are for me the very soul of Kingmaker. It is in those books you arrive in a totally wild, unexplored and dangerous region, travel in it until you know it like your pocket, and build you OWN city/kingdom wherever you want! This feeling really is incredible. The NPCs proposed are really cool, and the fact that the choices you make (who lives and who dies, who get to be on your council, how you deal with all the dillemas) affect the rest of the campaign is half the fun.
To emulate this feeling with a homebrew scenario and/or individual published adventures would necessitate a HUGE(I mean it.) workload for you, since you'd have to build the map, the encounters, the NPCs all by yourself while making it an exciting yet cohesive world. Plus, every chapter rely on the foundation created mostly by the first chapter. If you plan on doing it yourself of using another source, be prepared to heavily adapt almost everythinf from chapter 4 to 6 so it stays in the boundaries of what you've created in your 'replacement chapters'.
Have you considered buying the PDFs and print them in a office supplies store? It costs only a few bucks (especially if you stick with black and white) and you can put it in a binder. Those services usually offer binding, which make your print almost like a real book.
The first installment, Stolen Land, is probably the easiest to dispense with. Starting with the party receiving their charter to establish a realm in Rivers Run Red is a logical entry into the rest of the AP.
Part of the action in installments 3-6 (as well as RRR) is tied to the defense and expansion of the PCs' realm. By starting with RRR, the "organic"/"sandboxy" feel of the AP is heightened; the PCs are also more likely to be invested in a realm they've built "from the ground up." You can definitely use Ultimate Campaign for the kingdom-building and mass combat rules, instead of what's in the AP, but giving the PCs a chance to start as rulers of a new nation has more benefits than the purely mechanical.
Starting with Chapter 3 (Varnhold Vanishing) would be pretty weird, since it is widely known as the 'black sheep part' of the AP. It's story arc doesn't really relate with the overarching plot of Kingmaker.
It really represents a break in the rythm of the AP to allow the PCs' kingdom to grow while they are adventuring abroad, allowing the events of Chapter 4 to take place in a well-established kingdom. It is a great chapter, in my opinion, but not as an introduction to Kingmaker.
Plus, the first two chapters are for me the very soul of Kingmaker. It is in those books you arrive in a totally wild, unexplored and dangerous region, travel in it until you know it like your pocket, and build you OWN city/kingdom wherever you want! This feeling really is incredible. The NPCs proposed are really cool, and the fact that the choices you make (who lives and who dies, who get to be on your council, how you deal with all the dillemas) affect the rest of the campaign is half the fun.
To emulate this feeling with a homebrew scenario and/or individual published adventures would necessitate a HUGE(I mean it.) workload for you, since you'd have to build the map, the encounters, the NPCs all by yourself while making it an exciting yet cohesive world. Plus, every chapter rely on the foundation created mostly by the first chapter. If you plan on doing it yourself of using another source, be prepared to heavily adapt almost everythinf from chapter 4 to 6 so it stays in the boundaries of what you've created in your 'replacement chapters'.
Have you considered buying the PDFs and print them in a office supplies store? It costs only a few bucks (especially if you stick with black and white) and you can put it in a binder. Those services usually offer binding, which make your print almost like a real book.
I considered the PDFs, still unsure. I bought a PDF from here recently, and did exactly that, but it turned out more expensive then I thought and it was very hard to convince them to print it (they wanted a signature from the publisher that it was okay for me to print it out!!! eventually I pointed to the stuff indicating I actually bought it, but they really didn't want to print and bind it).
But I have also considered buying the PDFs and using them to script the first two adventures based on Dragons demand and Bitter Manor into something similar to what they'd experience in order to conform with the latter 4 modules.
The first installment, Stolen Land, is probably the easiest to dispense with. Starting with the party receiving their charter to establish a realm in Rivers Run Red is a logical entry into the rest of the AP.
Part of the action in installments 3-6 (as well as RRR) is tied to the defense and expansion of the PCs' realm. By starting with RRR, the "organic"/"sandboxy" feel of the AP is heightened; the PCs are also more likely to be invested in a realm they've built "from the ground up." You can definitely use Ultimate Campaign for the kingdom-building and mass combat rules, instead of what's in the AP, but giving the PCs a chance to start as rulers of a new nation has more benefits than the purely mechanical.
Thanks, so it's sounding like perhaps I shouldn't try to do my idea...
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At 1st level, exploring "sandbox" style is challenging. Crossing rivers that have no bridges, that are hedged in by thick briars, is an adventure that forces players to rely on non-combat skills. Weather, such as spring tornados, can be fierce, even deadly. Players will account for cold weather at night (do they take exposure damage), whether they have enough food or must live off the land, and have the wonder of not knowing what lies behind the next hill.
Higher level adventures lose a lot of that luster. Skill checks and saves are high enough that the earlier non-combat events pose little threat. Most parties can magically create food or have magical storage so food is not a concern. If you skip Stolen Lands, you lose a lot of the magic that made it the flagship for one of the most popular adventure paths.
The 2nd module is heavily adjustable, and if you have the hex map you probably could create your own setup. It's really about starting up your kingdom and handling the threats in the more dangerous "south" that 1st level characters would have perished in. Many players opted for the "monster kingdom" campaign idea, and it's a good one.
I don't do well with a computer (or any computers or tablets) at the table when playing. It seems a little less personal...at least to me. In addition, I can't really flip through a PDF as quickly or as easily, and normally for me to be able to read it I need it magnified large enough that the PDF only shows about a third of the page at a time, so to read anything or go through it requires a LOT of scrolling.
For me, I can't really run it off PDF.
What if the pcs were hired by the baron of the kingdom you build in parts 1&2 to investigate the Varhold area, then upon returning they find that the council of their kingdom has been assassinated by Drelev. You could ignore the Tiger Lords plot line entirely and instead have the PCs attempt to regain control of their kingdom with subterfuge and then go after Drelev as the second part of book 4.
So, with some other comments in regards to my players composition and group preferences, really considering buying the PDF of RRR, doing the expensive/tough thing of printing it out myself, and then getting it bound.
Options would be JR (leaning heavily towards this), CC, SD, or KM.
Do you think it would be worth it to do this in order to run Kingmaker?
Well, after patience and waiting, it appears I actually procured RRR hardcopy. Still don't have the first one, but I have the second part now. Some have indicated that this could be a good starting point. It appears we don't have the exploration, but we would have the kingdom building aspect.
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Well, after patience and waiting, it appears I actually procured RRR hardcopy. Still don't have the first one, but I have the second part now. Some have indicated that this could be a good starting point. It appears we don't have the exploration, but we would have the kingdom building aspect.
RRR is a much better point to start.
If you really can't stand running book 1 off the PDF, then perhaps you might want to run a module instead?
Dragons Demand takes characters from 1st to 6th level, perhaps as a reward for completing that adventure they are given the charter to colonize the Greenbelt?
That could work, I already have Dragon's Demand, haven't ever run it yet though.
