Nine Blazing Months!


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Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

I'm glad to see new people posting in Blazing 9! :) Jacob's review is spot on, very good advice as always.

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I wanted to make sure I got this revised version posted before I left my workplace, as my internet at home is on the fritz. So any feed back I won't be able to see until tomorrow.

Thank you all for the feedback so far. Here's Take two.

===============================

Ground-Bone Rolls (Dozen)
Aura faint to strong transmutation (see text); CL varies (see text)
Slot none; Price 300-30,000 GP (see text); Weight 1 lb. per dozen.
Description
These sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, ground up into a fine powder.

The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price and the strength of the aura that surrounds 12 rolls. Rolls made from bones of a Tiny or Small creature will yield a faint aura. Such rolls cost 300 GP for Tiny bones and 700 GP for Small bones. Medium and Large creature bones have a moderate aura, resulting in a 1,500 GP and 2,500 GP price tag respectively. Ground-up bones from Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura, spiking the price to 7,000 GP for Huge, 15,000 GP for Gargantuan, and 30,000 GP for Colossal. All prices are by the dozen.

Creatures that eat of a roll soon grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. This effect lasts for 10 minutes.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same creature. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming unsafe for consumption. Such rolls must be disposed of carefully as mold, maggots, rats, and flies could munch on the discarded rolls, reaping their effects.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; enlarge person or reduce person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (cooking); Cost 150-15,000 GP

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theheadkase wrote:
I want to encourage you to continue thinking off the wall...like Craft (cooking) 5 requirements...that's cool and it is an underutilized thing. That kind of thinking will get you noticed and will get you votes provided you do templating correctly and follow Jacob's and Anthony's advice.

I actually disagree with this. I think there's a bias against doing unusual requirements (i.e. the feat and spell). Now that's just my anecdotal feeling but personally I'd tread lightly about using other requirements (again, mostly talking about for Superstar, though they tend to be rare in published items as well).

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Brigg wrote:

I wanted to make sure I got this revised version posted before I left my workplace, as my internet at home is on the fritz. So any feed back I won't be able to see until tomorrow.

Thank you all for the feedback so far. Here's Take two.

===============================

Ground-Bone Rolls (Dozen)

Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming unsafe for consumption. Such rolls must be disposed of carefully as mold, maggots, rats, and flies could munch on the discarded rolls, reaping their effects.

Welcome Brigg!

I like the revision and it covers much of Jacob's earlier critique. It leaves me with two questions, but I feel they are a little pedantic so, take them with a grain of... errr....
how long does it take to eat? I presume a standard as a default of magic items, but it could be clearer. Likewise how long does it take to reach the new size? "soon" could be 15 minutes, but since it only lasts for ten mninutes I am probably wrong. Similarly what does 'unsafe for consumption' mean? If the magic is still in them, many characters would gladly eat a bit gross bread to gain a size change. Especially with access to spells such as delay poison, remove disease, or even just depend on a high Fort save.

On to other things: by the time someone could afford the gargantuan rolls, they will have access to spells that do this better. For RPGSS I might choose only one size and hit others are out there (not to mention the one week duration). This will also make the format a little cleaner and save you on word count. BUT I think it will steal much of the creativity of the item to do so. Why is gargantuan more expensive than fine? Certainly your strength and damage go up (does the eater's gear also change?) but not every character, not even every player character wants to be bigger. In many dungeons being enlarged can be a curse, & I can see kobolds leaving little rolls about with tags saying 'eat me' to wedge their enemies into their tight warrens.

Finally Serious versus Silly. I think that in terms of mechanics, presentation, and balance serious is definitely favored. But in terms of imagery, concepts, cinematics, powers... silly is good. This is a game and games should be fun.
Clarification: Silly: thinking out side the box is good. Silly: simpleton or bad pun not so much. I think this is the good kind.

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Dang... Wayfinder deadline is near & I still have no blazing items for it.*
I plan to post them here for critique before sending them in though. Anyone else want a lookover on items you know how to reach me. :)

*Nor a completed short story. Nor for the Pathfinder chronicles! Must... get... busy!!!

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Jacob W. Michaels wrote:
theheadkase wrote:
I want to encourage you to continue thinking off the wall...like Craft (cooking) 5 requirements...that's cool and it is an underutilized thing. That kind of thinking will get you noticed and will get you votes provided you do templating correctly and follow Jacob's and Anthony's advice.
I actually disagree with this. I think there's a bias against doing unusual requirements (i.e. the feat and spell). Now that's just my anecdotal feeling but personally I'd tread lightly about using other requirements (again, mostly talking about for Superstar, though they tend to be rare in published items as well).

I will agree that doing it just because isn't necessarily a good thing, I meant more that thinking outside the box is to be encouraged!

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I'd like to contribute more on this thread, but recently been busy because of the contest, and been working on important assignments almost back-to-back... but I'll keep an eye on the thread for sure. :)

Regarding the unusual requirements thing, I'm with Jacob on that one. It's likely to annoy more people than it's going to please because it rarely ever happens in Paizo's products. But being creative and thinking outside the box in general is definitely a good thing!!

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Thank you all again for the input. I really appreciate everyone's encouragement! It means a ton!

Curaigh, I will do my best to answer your questions in the form of a third revision some time today. My supervisor spoke to me yesterday and told me to curb using the forums at work. You guys will hear from me again soon enough. Thanks again!

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I can't seem to get the "Spoiler" function to work proper...

Anyway, here's Take 3
==============================
Ground-Bone Rolls (Dozen)
Aura faint to strong transmutation (see text); CL varies (see text)
Slot none; Price 300-30,000 GP (see text); Weight 1 lb. per dozen.
Description
These sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, ground up into a fine powder.

The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price and the strength of the aura that surrounds 12 rolls. Rolls made from bones of a Small, Medium, or Large creature will yield a faint aura. Such rolls cost 2,000 GP per dozen. Tiny and Huge creature bones have a moderate aura and cost 8,000 GP per dozen. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura, spiking the price to 18,000 GP per dozen.

Taking a bite (about half a roll) is a standard action while scarfing a whole roll quickly is a full-round action. Each provokes Attacks of Opportunity. Creatures that finish an entire roll immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. The magic-enhanced nutrients in the bread also provide a +2 bonus on Fortitude Saves. These effects last for 10 minutes.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same animal. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert, as well as undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; Enlarge Person; Reduce Person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (Cooking); Cost 150-15,000 GP

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I would probably change the wording slightly...

This is because of Sean's wonderful exercises on his design course for prevention of rules lawyer-ing. I was awake on that Skype chat ;)

Simply refer to the amount eaten as a half or a whole roll - I don't want to think that I can take a bite of a fist sized bread roll and discover my mouth is so big it takes half the roll in a single bite. Scarfing might be regional, but it works, wolfing it down, also likely a regional saying. The rewording suggestion below gets around this problem

"Eating either the first or second half of a roll as a standard action grants the consumer ...., but eating a whole roll in one go as a full round action also grants..."

This way the rules lawyers cannot say "It was the second half of my roll, so I have now eaten the whole roll so I get the whole benefit this time..." - yes, Sean has encountered that level of rules lawyer-ing.

Also, the paragraph starting with "Taking a bit" says exactly what happens when a whole roll is finished but isn't very clear on what just a half roll provides. I suspect just the save bonus but I can't be sure.

If you break it up like above, assigning the benefits to each eaten amount, you resolve this issue.

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I now realized I forgot to change the pricing in the top section and the construction requirements. I have no idea why I'm not able to edit my posts here.....

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You can only edit your posts within 60 mins of posting them, I think.

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You can only edit posts on the board for an hour. After that, you're stuck.

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Hey got the "Spoiler" thing working.

Ground-Bone Rolls: Take 4:
Ground-Bone Rolls (Dozen)
Aura faint to strong transmutation (see text); CL varies (see text)
Slot none; Price 2,000-18,000 GP (see text); Weight 1 lb. per dozen.
Description
These sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, ground up into a fine powder.

The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price and the strength of the aura that surrounds 12 rolls. Rolls made from bones of a Small, Medium, or Large creature will yield a faint aura. Such rolls cost 2,000 GP per dozen. Tiny and Huge creature bones have a moderate aura and cost 8,000 GP per dozen. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura, spiking the price to 18,000 GP per dozen.

Eating half a roll is a standard action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity. Doing so provides a +2 bonus on Fortitude Saves from the magic-enriched nutrients. Eating both halves of the same roll causes the consumer to immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size and gaining an additional +2 bonus on Fortitude Saves. These effects stack, and last for 10 minutes.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same animal. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert, as well as undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; Enlarge Person; Reduce Person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (Cooking); Cost 1,000-9,000 GP

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One more template type of thing...

Prices for different types are listed separately usually, if I recall correctly, it would be something like...

2,000 GP (dozen rolls, small to huge bone flour), 18,000 GP (dozen rolls, diminutive or gargantuan bone flour)

This then negates the need for the price explanation detail in the item text (minimise construction in your description as much as possible is the idea), allowing you to replace.

"have a moderate aura and cost 8,000 GP per dozen. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura, spiking the price to 18,000 GP per dozen."

with something like...

"have a moderate aura. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura."

The pricing is then totally in the template freeing you quite a few words.

Don't forget to change the cost to have the same format as the price, i.e.

1,000 GP (dozen rolls, small to huge bone flour), 9,000 GP (dozen rolls, diminutive or gargantuan bone flour)

It's really close now, I certainly would up vote this automatically against poorly formatted entries a lot AND when against equally well formatted entries, I would have to read both in detail before voting, so this is a major improvement on that first draft :)

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Treading the line at 298 words. <.<

I just want to say that I'm so very grateful that you guys have helped me out. I'm already starting to map out another test item. Hopefully, it will take less revisions to fine-tune it. ^_^

Ground-Bone Rolls: Take 5:
Ground-Bone Rolls (Dozen)
Aura faint to strong transmutation (see text); CL varies (see text)
Slot none; Price (Per Dozen) 2,000 GP (Small to Large bone flour), 8,000 GP (Tiny and Huge bone flour), 18,000 (Diminutive and Gargantuan bone flour); Weight 1 lb. per dozen.
Description
These sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, ground up into the flour.

The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price and aura strength for one dozen rolls. Rolls made from the bones of a Small, Medium, or Large creature will yield a faint aura. Rolls made from Tiny and Huge creature bones hold a moderate aura. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura.

Eating half a roll is a standard action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity. Doing so provides a +2 bonus on Fortitude Saves from the magic-enriched nutrients. Eating both halves of the same roll increases the bonus to +4 and causes the consumer to immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. These effects stack, and last for 10 minutes.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same creature. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert and undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; Enlarge Person; Reduce Person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (Cooking); Cost (Per Dozen) 1,000 GP (Small to Large), 4,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 9,000 GP (Diminutive and Gargantuan)

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Breaking lurk to say I'm totally giddy at seeing Brigg's item come together.

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You don't need "per dozen" on the weight as that's in your price entry, so there's two words saved.

In fact remove it from price, weight and cost and put in your description, something like

"...fist-sized rolls, bought by the dozen, glisten with a sugary..."

On reflection, drop the "bone flour" in the price entries. I think it will scan better without.

Drop (Dozen) from the item name. You don't normally put quantities here, and remove the s from Rolls. You describe what eating one roll gives, that fact you buy them a dozen at a time is covered, so we don't need to put that everywhere.

Because you changed the wording to "increases the bonus to +4" you don't need the "effects stack" anymore, drop it to something like.

"All benefits last for 10 minutes." or something along those lines.

I might even go so far as to change it to

"The save bonus lasts for one hour, but the size change lasts just 10 minutes."

Buffs tend to last an hour or more on items, whereas physical changes last around 10 minutes or less (sometimes for just the current encounter).

That should cut the word total some :)

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I'm really impressed also to see you making so many changes, Brigg. I think that's awesome. (AA, I think your feedback is also getting a lot better, so kudos there.)

A couple more style notes:
Attack of opportunity shouldn't be uppercase.

Fortitude is uppercase (as you have) but save is lower case. I think you also probably should say what type of bonus this is. You can find the list of bonus types here. (I guess it could be untyped, but that's rare ... to the point I'd probably check to make sure it's not completely unheard of.)

Spell names should be lowercase.

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Last revision for the day. 291 words. Heading home. Internet still on the fritz.

Garrett, I'm giddy, too! ^.^

Anthony, Jacob, you guys are the best! Thanks so much for all your help and honest critiquing. And thanks to everyone else who has laid compliment to this item. Personally, I was afraid of submitting it at first because I wasn't sure how it would have been received. But then, I wouldn't be getting anywhere, would I?

Anyway, here it is. I'll be able to respond to any more feedback tomorrow. Thanks again!

Ground-Bone Roll: Take 6:
Ground-Bone Roll
Aura faint to strong transmutation (see text); CL varies (see text)
Slot none; Price 2,000 GP (Small to Large), 8,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 18,000 (Diminutive and Gargantuan) (see text); Weight 1 lb.
Description
These sweet, buttery, fist-sized, bought-by-the-dozen rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, ground up into the flour.

The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price and aura strength for one dozen rolls. Rolls made from the bones of a Small, Medium, or Large creature will yield a faint aura. Rolls made from Tiny and Huge creature bones hold a moderate aura. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura.

Eating half a roll is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The magic-enriched nutrients provide a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves that lasts for one hour. Eating both halves of the same roll increases this bonus to +4 and causes the consumer to immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. The change in size lasts for 10 minutes.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same creature. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert and undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; enlarge person; reduce person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (cooking); Cost 1,000 GP (Small to Large), 4,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 9,000 GP (Diminutive and Gargantuan)

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Ok, those commas in the intro look weirdly placed, try moving the bought by the dozen to start of the sentence..." Bought by the dozen, these sweet, buttery... it will keep the roll descriptions with the word "roll" and read better when read aloud.

Now the one that will make you go "huh?"

See that paragraph starting "The size of the creature" - well, if you read it, it's really boring as it's talking about how the price is derived, so how about you take that whole paragraph and move it down in to the front of the last line of the description.

This will bring the roll's eating affect to the fore of the item, and it IS the most exciting part of the item, so that is what should follow the descriptive intro.

Try it, I think you will find it makes the whole item much more exciting to read the first time and subsequent times.

Description should always go...

Short visual para of the item,
Main exciting powers first thing after the description,
Secondary powers next (if any)
Closing statements, usually end of duration, limits etc (in this case pricing and roll freshness limitation).

Doing this gets the voters and the judges into the meat and potatoes of the item design the fastest.

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I see what you're saying. Is this better?

Ground-Bone Roll: Take 7::
Ground-Bone Roll
Aura faint to strong transmutation (see text); CL varies (see text)
Slot none; Price 2,000 GP (Small to Large), 8,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 18,000 (Diminutive and Gargantuan) (see text); Weight 1 lb.
Description
Bought by the dozen, these sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, ground up into the flour. The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price and aura strength for a dozen rolls. Rolls made from the bones of a Small, Medium, or Large creature will yield a faint aura. Rolls made from Tiny and Huge creature bones hold a moderate aura. Ground-up bones from Diminutive and Gargantuan creatures cause the rolls to seethe in a strong aura.

Eating half a roll is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The magic-enriched nutrients provide a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves that lasts for one hour. Eating both halves of the same roll increases this bonus to +4 and causes the consumer to immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. The change in size lasts for 10 minutes.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same creature. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert and undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; enlarge person; reduce person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (Cooking); Cost 1,000 GP (Small to Large), 4,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 9,000 GP (Diminutive and Gargantuan)

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I think the aura bit is cluttering up the item, try it without any of the aura - the aura should not be affected by the size of the bones being ground into flour, the aura is affected by the spells.

So, take the spell with the highest caster level and fix your caster level and fix your aura to one strength.

I know that's probably brutal at this point in the revision, but I think it will result in a much lower word count and a far cleaner and easier to read item.

And this is where I get creamed by all my fellow blazing 9 peeps - you are showing a tendency to over-think your item which is why you are trying to make auras of varying strengths for visuals, even though the spells are consistent. I am so going to suffer for that point! >.<

Keep the seething /fizzing idea for the roll texture, that made them much more interesting than being buttery and sweet, just don't make it an aura.

Other than that, I think you are just about done on this item.

Oh, yeah, SKR - I spotted you favoriting my feedback you sneaky devil - would you like to chime in with anything? :P

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Hey, without all the aura stuff, it allowed me to put in an effect that I wanted to put in before, but didn't have room! How does this look?

Ground-Bone Roll: Take 8::
Ground-Bone Roll
Aura moderate transmutation (see text); CL 10
Slot none; Price 2,000 GP (Small to Large), 8,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 18,000 (Diminutive and Gargantuan) (see text); Weight 1 lb.
Description
Bought by the dozen, these sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, finely ground up into the flour. The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price for one dozen rolls.

Eating half a roll is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The magic-enriched nutrients provide a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves that lasts for one hour. Eating both halves of the same roll increases this bonus to +4 and causes the consumer to immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. The change in size lasts for 10 minutes.

A player may instead choose to spend a full-round action (provoking attacks of opportunity) to quickly scarf down a whole roll. This option changes the 1-hour resistance bonus on Fortitude saves to 1d3+1. The size-altering effect remains unchanged.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same creature. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert and undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; enlarge person; reduce person; creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (Cooking); Cost 1,000 GP (Small to Large), 4,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 9,000 GP (Diminutive and Gargantuan)

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Much cleaner. I think now is a good time to put it aside. Let it sit for 24-48 hours and see how you feel about it - also do this in the competition, don't rush to post an entry unless you are absolutely 100% sure its ready. Taking some time to let things settle is the best way to be sure :)

Well done. Looking forward to your next one, but I only want to see it when you have applied all the lessons you have learnt doing this one - because your next one will be reviewed and commented on by....


Me! Slurp, drool!

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Awesome! Thank you so much.

I already have the item I want to enter into the contest already mapped out. And I AM taking everything I'm learning through these trial runs and applying it to my potential entry.

I look forward to presenting my next test item. It won't be edible this time, though. ^.^

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Anthony Adam wrote:
Oh, yeah, SKR - I spotted you favoriting my feedback you sneaky devil - would you like to chime in with anything? :P

No need, my former padawan, you have said what I would have said. :)

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Nice work Anthony :)
Nice to see you back Sean.
Most importantly NICE WORK BRIGG!

It can be really hard not to answer questions or counter critique, but it is important not to. Making the changes (as you have) fixes/addresses the issues so that a new reader will have fewer and fewer questions. Keep in mind a published designer doesn't get to answer the questions, so your rewrites are an important tool.

AA you recognized over-thinking!?! That's a huge step. Me thinks "Top 32" may soon be next to your name. :)

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Small style note, I just saw: You want commas -- not semicolons -- between your requirements.

I like the additional rule you added in in the last version. Gives the PCs a choice of how to use it that gives them a little bonus at limited risk.

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Curaigh wrote:


AA you recognized over-thinking!?!

And so it begins :P

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Anthony Adam wrote:
Curaigh wrote:


AA you recognized over-thinking!?!
And so it begins :P

Actually, I think it began months ago. ;)

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All right. After letting it sit for the weekend, I noticed one last thing that needed to be revised along with Jacob's comment about the commas: The "(See Text)" after the aura type didn't need to be there. I'm pretty sure that wrap it up for the Ground-Bone Rolls.

Ground Bone Roll: Final::
Ground-Bone Roll
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 10
Slot none; Price 2,000 GP (Small to Large), 8,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 18,000 (Diminutive and Gargantuan) (see text); Weight 1 lb.
Description
Bought by the dozen, these sweet, buttery, fist-sized rolls glisten with a sugary brown spice indigenous to the northern reaches of the Inner Sea. However, the succulent buns also harbor a controversial ingredient: The bones of creatures, finely ground up into the flour. The size of the creature from which the bones came determines the price for one dozen rolls.

Eating half a roll is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The magic-enriched nutrients provide a +2 resistance bonus on Fortitude saves that lasts for one hour. Eating both halves of the same roll increases this bonus to +4 and causes the consumer to immediately grow or shrink to the size of the creature from which the ground-up bones used to make the bread came; taking on all of the bonuses and penalties for its new size. The change in size lasts for 10 minutes.

A player may instead choose to spend a full-round action to quickly scarf down a whole roll. This option changes the 1-hour resistance bonus on Fortitude saves to 1d3+1. The size-altering effect remains unchanged.

Each dozen rolls must use the same ground-up bones from the same creature. Like mundane bread, the rolls can only keep for 1 week before becoming inert and undesirable for consumption.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, enlarge person, reduce person, creator must have 5 ranks in Craft (Cooking); Cost 1,000 GP (Small to Large), 4,000 GP (Tiny and Huge), 9,000 GP (Diminutive and Gargantuan)

=========================
And now...!

Harlequin Lamentations
Aura faint enchantment; CL 5
Slot none; Price 6,000; Weight 2 lb.
Description
This innocuous 32-page, leather-bound pamphlet contains musings and anecdotes from Taldor’s most distinguished comedic performers. However, the seemingly-harmless happenings in these amusing thoughts and tales contain deep-seeded despair, depression, and even horror.

Once per combat, a player may spend two full rounds to recite an anecdote from the book with a Perform (oratory) or Perform (comedy) check. This check is rolled only once, when the player begins to recite. When the anecdote is finished being recited, enemies within 30 feet of the reader who could hear and understand him must succeed a Will save, DC equal to the Perform check used. Those that fail the save are affected as per hideous laughter for three rounds. Each round thereafter, creatures under the effects of the laughter must succeed a DC 15 Wisdom check at the start of each turn. Success causes that creature to realize the hidden darkness in the recitation, causing them to become unsettled. This immediately ends their laughter, but causes them to become shaken and reducing their speed by half for 1d4 rounds due to the weighty nature of the reading. These are language-dependent, mind-affecting, compulsion effects that rely on audible components.

Reading from the pamphlet too often may have adverse effects on psyche of the reader. If the Lamentations are used more than once in a day, the reader must succeed a DC 20 Will save or become shaken for 12 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, hideous laughter, creator must have 5 ranks in Perform (comedy) or Craft (calligraphy); Cost 3,000 GP

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Template use looks good, except caster level should be "5th," not "5."

A note of caution -- be careful with names like harlequin lamentations -- it doesn't really tell me what the item is (a pamphlet) and that can be a turnoff for some voters.

That said, I really like a lot of your word choices, which I think is one of the signs of a good writer/designer. Harlequin and lamentations are both good words, as is innocuous.

I think you use Golarion lore wisely -- comedians fit with Taldor (IMO, at least) but it's not so esoteric that someone who doesn't use Golarion as a campaign setting has no idea what you're talking about. That said -- and I'm nitpicking here -- be careful of saying it has to have Taldor's most distinguished comedic performers. Remember that anyone can make these items (that's part of why they shouldn't have a history), so what if they use some other comedians?

I'm immediately turned off when I see it takes a two full rounds. A lot of time that's an entire combat. I think this item would get down-voted just for that. It also brings up the situation of does someone have to be within 30 feet the entire time?

Hideous laughter should be italicized in the body of the item.

Excellent job listing all the types of effects; that's the type of detail that gets missed a lot, and IMO it speaks a lot to your attention to detail that you're including them.

It seems odd to me that the targets suddenly realize how macabre the jokes are, but the reader doesn't if he just uses it once per day. I know you can handwave it off as magic, but it feels dissonant to me.

I think this is something I'd probably upvote over a lot of items, but it probably wouldn't make a favorite list or beat the top items for me (again, though, since this is practice, I wouldn't necessarily expect anything posted on 9 Blazing Months to rise to that level so take that with a grain of salt).

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I'm going to jump around a bit as I notice things during scanning and deep reading, but here's a few more thoughts...

Template - more than 1 pound is plural ;) "lbs."

A pamphlet in the UK is a single page shoved through your door for you to place into the recycle bin :P That said, I don't care that it's 32 pages, I think you can cut those 2 "words" and have a much cleaner introduction and it doesn't restrict the page count in any way. Another reason to cut them is scanning the rest of the description, the page count has zero impact on the item itself. I am also tempted to suggest notebook rather than pamphlet based on the descriptions.

Jacob has the right of it about Golarion lore - in the competition, it can be a two edged sword, you will both gain votes from Golarion loving voters and lose votes of the generic "my campaign" voters. Personally, when I enter the competition, for round 1 items, I aim for totally generic. Should I ever achieve Top 32, I then have subsequent rounds to show off my Golarion lore - but that's just what I do and I haven't made Top 32 yet.

The style of writing has no effect on the item effects, so although its kind of nice to last calligraphy in the construction it has zero effect on the item itself and is a waste of wording. The focus of the item is that it is performer based.

Template: In the description you say "as per hideous laughter" - I can't think of a single instance in the books where it uses "per" after "as" in any item, the wording structure is "as spell/ability/etc." and as the thing referred to is a spell name, italicize it - "as hideous laughter"

Duration is too long, effectively the PC is telling a joke from his notepad of jokes, so a standard action is plenty of cost - how many words can you say in six seconds? A lot more than you think ;)

Now, if I were designing this item, on stepping back and reviewing the whole thing, I think I would widen the scope - but that's just me and I always end up at the word limit of the round >.< I would probably consider all of the performing arts, and maybe change it to instill emotions - imaging if it can be used to buff the morale of your allies or instill despair in your enemies, impress the royal court of the castle, woo the one you desire, etc. It may be that widening the scope would make it to wordy resulting in my restricting the arts, but it would be explored to see where it leads.

The reasons I would look to widen the scope are

1) The very core of the item is a spell, and is bordering on spell in a can. But you avoid this with the ending laughter making the target shaken effect - that is very good and takes it away from spell in a can very nicely. Well done.

2) It is close to being the sort of item that relies on the "tastes" of the players/gm. By widening the scope, I would be hoping to widen the appeal of the item.

3) To explore for my own benefit where the item might take me and not lock myself into a singular idea - I would keep my original design to hand in case I don't like where I end up though :)

This item's first post is leagues and miles better than your first post of the prior item! This clearly shows you have taken the lessons from your first item, digested the feedback, learnt and applied from it - this shows you are a designer willing to work towards improving his/her design skills. That is fantastic and needs to be mentioned and encouraged - keep it up.

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This revision had to go kind of quickly because I'm at work. I'll be able to pour over it a bit more thoroughly on my lunch break.

Thanks a lot, guys!

Booklet of Harlequin Lamentations: Take 2::
Booklet of Harlequin Lamentations
Aura faint enchantment; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 6,000; Weight 2 lbs.
Description
This innocuous, leather-bound booklet contains musings and anecdotes from some of the most distinguished artistic and comedic performers. However, the seemingly-harmless happenings in these amusing thoughts and tales contain deep-seeded despair, depression, and even horror.

Once per combat, a player may spend a full-round action to recite an anecdote from the book with a Perform (oratory) or Perform (comedy) check. Once the selection has been recited, enemies within 60 feet of the reader who could hear and understand him must succeed a Will save, DC equal to the Perform check used. Those that fail the save are affected as hideous laughter for four rounds. Each round thereafter, creatures under the effects of the laughter must make a DC 15 Wisdom check at the start of each turn. Success causes that creature to realize the hidden darkness in the recitation, causing them to become unsettled. This immediately ends their laughter, but causes them to become shaken and reduces their speed by half for 1d4 rounds due to the weighty nature of the reading. These are language-dependent, mind-affecting, emotion effects that rely on audible components.

Reading from the Lamentations does not come without risk to psyche of the reader. With each use, the reader must succeed a DC 20 Will save. Failure causes the reader to become shaken for 1d2 hours. This is a mind-affecting emotion and fear effect. The DC for this check increases by +2 each time the book is used. Not using the Lamentations for one week resets the save DC to 20.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, hideous laughter, creator must have 5 ranks in Perform (comedy); Cost 3,000 GP

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Brigg wrote:

Booklet of Harlequin Lamentations

... Each round thereafter, creatures under the effects of the laughter must make a DC 15 Wisdom check at the start of each turn. Success causes that creature to realize the hidden darkness in the recitation, causing them to become unsettled. This immediately ends their laughter, but causes them to become shaken and reduces their speed by half for 1d4 rounds due to the weighty nature of the reading. These are language-dependent, mind-affecting, emotion effects that rely on audible components.

Reading from the Lamentations does not come without risk to psyche of the reader. With each use, the reader must succeed a DC 20 Will save. Failure causes the reader to become shaken for 1d2 hours....

Not bad, I find this a good utility item, with just enough interesting twists to not be 'just another utility item'.

The hideous laughter is a little SiC, but there is a change later on that makes it different.
IMHO the hideous laughter is a worse condition than being shaken however. I would hope to make the check, to 'improve' to shaken during a combat (and of course roll a 1 to reduce the effects to 2 rounds). Even the reduced speed is better than being prone. Maybe the unsettled hidden darkness could come after the laughter, and not when the next save happens. Hmmm... did you mean AFTER four rounds you start to make the Wis checks? Or does that check the first round after being affected?
Wandering DCs are hard to price. I would make it static for DC, but you can reward hi performance skills with additional duration, or improved DC. I am no pro on this, just my opinion hopefully Mikko or Jacob can weigh in.

The sentences I quoted seemed long too me. Not quite run-on but getting there. 'at the start' is implied with 'each turn' for example. 'Causes' repeats a lot and its uses might be combined. The last quoted sentence can be combined with the previous sentence with an 'or' ...succeed at a Will save OR become shaken.... Again this kind of change can change the voice which is not what I am trying to do, so take it with a grain of salt.

Overall I like the item; mostly an upvote for me.

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Brigg wrote:

This revision had to go kind of quickly because I'm at work. I'll be able to pour over it a bit more thoroughly on my lunch break.

Thanks a lot, guys!

** spoiler omitted **...

FWIW I find it easier to comment on an item if it is not behind a spoiler, since spoilers get omitted on a reply. :)

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Good point Curaigh - no need to spoiler an item in a practice thread, you want to encourage feedback, not hide from it :P

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Curaigh is right, a DC based on your Perform check result would be very hard to price. Not to mention, with a little optimization, you can easily make the DC nearly unbeatable.

I'd get rid of the negative side effect. Drawbacks are almost never a good idea. It only makes the description longer and the item annoying to use.

Your writing flows really nicely, it's enjoyable to read (though there's a bit of ambiguity as Curaigh pointed out). Your template use is getting better with each iteration. As for mechanics, I'd recommend more unique effects than just using a spell as-is. The shaken condition is also a bit boring (just a -2...), BUT it being a rider effect does show you've got some mojo. At any rate, I urge you to try even bigger twists!

Just to show what I mean with "unique effects" and "twists", here's an example: Normally hideous laughter makes your enemies laugh so much they can't do anything else. What if... the item made you laugh instead? Your laughter becomes so hideous that your enemies... take sonic damage? Run away? Well it should probably be something more creative than that, but I'm sure you see my point.

Unique effects and/or twists. :)

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Oh wow. It's going to take a little more than a lunch break to get a new revision in on this one. You guys are awesome with your honest feedback and critiquing.

I'll drop the drawback, but I will definitely have to re-map how the item works based on the last few posts of feedback. It's okay...I've got some ideas. ^_^

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So here's idea #1
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Booklet of Harlequin Lamentations
Aura faint enchantment; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 6,000; Weight 2 lbs.
Description
This innocuous, leather-bound booklet contains musings and anecdotes from some of the most distinguished artistic and comedic performers. However, the seemingly-harmless happenings in these amusing thoughts and tales contain deep-seeded despair, depression, and even horror.

Once per 1d6 hours, as a standard action, a player may attempt to both humor and stun allies and enemies alike with quips from the booklet by making a DC 20 Perform (comedy) or Perform (oratory) check. Succeeding this check causes all who hear the recitation to become momentarily shocked at the comedic, yet unsettling anecdote. If this is performed during combat, all who heard and understood the speaker must make a new initiative roll. Enemies who roll a new initiative this way must then succeed a DC 15 Will save or become dazed for one round. Creatures that could not hear or understand the speaker receive a +20 circumstance bonus to their current initiative and act normally. This is a mind-affecting effect that relies on audible components.

Once the new initiative order is assigned, combat resumes at the top of the new order. The booklet cannot be used during a surprise round.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, daze, anticipate peril, creator must have 5 ranks in Perform (comedy); Cost 3,000 GP

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My gut feel here is this item version crosses the line of "creates more work for the players/gm" and can also give rise to situations like...

I rolled badly, initiative total 7, item used, oooh I'm shocked, re-roll - 19! + 4 = 23, so I go much faster due to shock O-o o-O O-o.

Ignoring strange situations that seem to go against the grain of being shocked, let's look at the "more work" aspects...

a) More work in tracking a variable recharge rate - I understand this could be trying to be different, which it is, but in this case, it can cause more pain in tracking what the current recharge rate is.

b) potentially a lot of changed initiatives - I already get people delaying and changing their initiative order, so forcing more on top of that - and then one of your allies was delaying until some action makes his action more spectacular when taken is suddenly usurped by forcing a change in his initiative might be none too pleased.

Initiative is a tempting target for designing in, but it can be so fluid that it is easy to create a tracking nightmare for the gm.

This is just me - my opinion - stay away from initiative, it makes me groan, it makes my head hurt - my instant reaction is "ack!, down vote!" to such items. That said, if you came up with something so blindingly clever and quick without causing me undue pain - therein lies the challenge.

For me, I don't like initiative items, it is personal, I hope my points above are taken within that light - others may like this item for different reasons, but for me, this one is a no-no.

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Understood. Admittedly, I wasn't sure how well that version of the item would be received.

I had another idea, but I can't post it right now. I have to get back to work. But I'll get it up later. ^.^

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All right. Here was my second alternate idea for the booklet. Personally, I think I should have posted this one first. ^.^
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Booklet of Harlequin Lamentations
Aura faint abjuration; CL 5th
Slot none; Price 8,000; Weight 2 lbs.
Description
This innocuous, leather-bound booklet contains musings and anecdotes from some of the most distinguished artistic and comedic performers. However, the seemingly-harmless happenings in these amusing thoughts and tales contain deep-seeded despair, depression, and even horror.

Once per day, a player may spend one minute to recite an anecdote from the booklet. All creatures that can hear and understand the reader are unsettled only briefly as the dark undertones of the reading cloud the forefront of their minds. Once the feeling passes, however, the momentary jolt of fear toughens the resolve of those who heard the reading. This sensation grants a +4 morale bonus against mind-affecting emotion and fear effects that lasts for 8 hours. This is a mind-affecting emotion effect that relies on audible components.

Once per activation of this item, a creature under its effects may spend an immediate action in an attempt to recall the exact recitation with a DC 15 Intelligence check. Succeeding this check brings forth another flash of dread that distracts the creature from other mental stimuli for three rounds. During this time, the creature loses the +4 morale bonus, but may roll 2d20 on any saves against mind-affecting emotion or fear effects, and take the better result. Casting a spell immediately ends effect. After this effect wears off, the +4 morale bonus to saves returns to the creature for the remainder of the initial 8-hour duration.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, swallow your fear or calm emotions; Cost 4,000 GP

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Haven't had a chance to look at the items yet, but I'd echo stay away from initiative. I had what I thought was a great initiative item in 2013. Didn't even make the top 100.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Cool, will have a look see at that next one in a while, it's implementation day at work so I am going to be buried under a swarm of servers (CR 99) for most of the day.

Now there's an idea for Iron Gods - the server swarm!

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
Brigg wrote:
Booklet of Harlequin Lamentations

Hey Brigg! Glad to see a new member on the Blazin' 9 (I was on a long hiatus because of other work). Let's take a look at your most recent item.

The fluff description does a good job characterizing it's ambiance. It takes a bit too long for my taste to get to the crunch; perhaps there is a to integrate the "clouded forefront of their minds" and "toughened resolve" with the actual effects? Personally I think it helps to get to the meat of the item sooner rather than later, and work the descriptive text in around it. But that may just be me.

A +4 morale bonus isn't really much to write home about, especially for RPGSS. The long duration helps a little, but it still doesn't wow me. It also seems a bit strange that the item is characterized by a lot of negative description, but ends up helping the listeners. It makes the initial impression a bit misleading, which may end up hurting you with voters. Furthermore, if the bonus applies to everyone who hears it, it's not really a combat advantage (since enemies would have it too). I would specify that it helps your allies; maybe you know how your allies think and can choose an excerpt from the booklet that works best for them.

The 2d20 is a bit sexier than the morale bonus. I am a little confused about the wording - can only one creature under its effects use the re-roll, or can each creature use the re-roll once?

I don't think you should capitalize gp in the cost, and I think the standard format includes "gp" in the Price section as well (correct me if I'm wrong, Anthony).

Overall I liked your Ground-Bone Rolls more than the Booklet; the stagnant bonus and extra roll against mind-affecting effects are useful, but a little underwhelming and overdone. I would recommend taking the idea of macabre undertones to an otherwise comedic piece (a cool base idea) and try to explore how that could work in new ways. Perhaps a bard using inspire courage can simultaneously demoralize enemies?

I hope that didn't come across as too critical. I thoroughly enjoyed watching your first item evolve, and I'm looking forward to seeing that kind of growth again.

Now to go through the gauntlet myself!

Mirror of Arcing Spells
Aura strong illusion; CL 13th
Slot none; Price 9,000 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

Description:
This diamond-shaped mirror always stands on one point when resting on a surface, and rotates to follow moving figures. By uttering a command word, the user can launch the mirror in any direction up to 50 ft. The mirror spins in the air for 1d3 rounds, allowing the user to see the area surrounding it as if she was standing in the mirror’s space. Furthermore, the user can reflect spells off the mirror, acting as if she were casting from the mirror’s space for the purpose of determining line of effect. The distance between the caster and the mirror is subtracted from the spell’s range.

Once used, the mirror returns to the wearer’s hand. The mirror can be used once per day with no risk. If it is used more frequently, there is a 20% cumulative chance per usage during that day that the mirror shatters into useless, non-magical shards.

Construction Requirements:
Craft Wondrous Item, project image; Cost: 4,500 gp.

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Not bad Nick,
I submitted something that played with line of effect and line of sight recently, but it is nothing like yours. :)

I think it mostly works and allows casters some options that would otherwise be deadly. Moving to the corner, shooting around a friendly, seeing into a room. :)

*projected image seems the perfect spell for the effect, but I wonder if there would be a lower level spell that does something similar. This uses only a fraction of the 'spells cast from the image' function and then it nerf's it with the limited range.
**This is pretty strait forward in regards to spells with a range of short, medium or long. It is not so clear for 'personal' or 'touch' ranged spells. My brain is overwhelmed trying to figure how a cone spell interacts with this. Burning hands for example has a range of 15 ft. and an area of cone shaped burst. I have always interpreted this to mean a 15 ft. cone starting at the caster (fingertips being mentioned in the description). Technically the cone can start anywhere up to 15 from the caster and it's size is undefined. ::reading magic chapter of the CRB:: Phew the small print is under cone: 'It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes.' OK back to original complication. So the mirror is 10 ft. from me, I cast burning hands using the mirror as starting point. It now has a 5 ft. cone reaching the maximum range from the caster. Or if I wanted to direct it back towards me, a 15. ft cone (& a crispy caster) since that is still within 15 of the caster's range. A lightning bolt has a 120 ft. range, but casting it from the mirror 50 ft. from me means the bolt goes 70 ft.? That seems correct, and does allow the caster to throw the lightning bolt down a side corridor :)
***"...a 20% cumulative chance per usage that the mirror..." is enough. The per that day is inherent in the previous sentence and that "X" that bothers the reading flow (at least it does mine, YMMV :)

I like the concept of shooting fireballs around corners, but it does need some clarification.

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Mirror or Arcing Spells

This is a great item! In fact, I would have considered saving it for RPGSS. :P A good item doesn't have to be long or overly complicated.

I don't like the cumulative chance of shattering it, though; it's one of those old-school things I've never learned to appreciate. Instead, I would have given it hp and AC; after all, if you had seen your allies turn into ash because of such a mirror, you'd want to destroy it the next time you see one, right?

Curaigh is right about cones and line; you should add something about how they work (or that they don't work).

Despite the minor issues, it would have been a definite up up upvote. :-)

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