Needing homebrew race playtested


Homebrew and House Rules


Like the title says I'm needing a homebrew race playtested. its essentially a flavor variant of half dragons. you can find the racial statistics here. I'm needing to know if its OP, UP, or what have you so I can present it to my group as a playable race. my group is in the middle of two campaigns already so we don't have the chance to playtest it.

Liberty's Edge

You should probably just post the race here. Even without play testing a rough idea of its power level can be determined pretty quickly.


ShadowcatX wrote:
You should probably just post the race here. Even without play testing a rough idea of its power level can be determined pretty quickly.

Alright... thats fair enough...

Darast’Rek
+4 strength, +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma

Type: Dragon

Size: Medium Size

Land Base Speed: 30 ft.

Low-light Vision

+2 Natural Armor Bonus

Immunity to magic sleep and paralysis effects, as well as energy of the same type as its breath weapon

Breath Weapon (Su): 1/day a Darast’Rek can use its breath weapon, dealing 3d6 damage. The type of breath weapon is determined by the type of dragon chosen

Draconic Rage (Ex): For a number of times per day equal to ½ your Character Level (with 1 being the minimum) you can acquire one of the following traits for 3 rounds. These traits do not stack onto one another and you must wait after the first trait expires before you can select another.

  • Drakken Senses: Your eyes become more draconic allowing you the ability of Darkvision 60 ft. as well as a +2 bonus to Perception checks.
  • Drakken Claws: Channeling your draconic inheritance your fingers extend into sharp claws allowing you two natural attacks causing 2d4 damage.
  • Drakken Wings: you grow a pair of Dragon wings allowing you a fly speed of twice your base land speed.

Gain Dragon Form as a bonus feat at first level

Dragon Form feat:
Prerequisites: Darast’Rek
You can assume the form of a medium dragon for a number of rounds equal to 3 + Con modifier, this feat otherwise functions like the Form of the Dragon I spell.

Liberty's Edge

I hadn't noticed that you'd included a link to the stats in your op, my apologies. Reading comprehension fail.

Now that I see them I have to ask, over powered and under powered compared to what? It is so far over powered compared to a standard race I can't imagine that is what you're comparing it to, but draconic rage refers to character level rather than hit dice so I'm not sure you're planning this as a template for other races. . .


no not a template... i was more or less comparing it as an uncommon race...its follows most of pathfinders race building rules with a few tweeks. at the end of it i think it came out to almost a 40 RP rating...


Jonah "Deadshot" Johnson wrote:
at the end of it i think it came out to almost a 40 RP rating...

That should be your first clue that it's massively OP. Zero HD races should average around half that. 26 would be pushing, 40 is beyond the pale.


and yet noble drow exists.... which is like a 30 something... at the same time alot of the abilities given have large resrictions... draconic rage only lasts for 3 rounds and cant be stacked on each other, and even the dragon form feat has less of a duration than the actual spell and won't even scale in comparison to the spell at higher levels.


the race building rules offer alot of choices but its kind of an all or nothing thing... they either always have the ability active or they don't have the ability... the flavor of this race was to make a half-dragon like creature that appeared human, but could temporarily access a few dragon abilities. and become a full dragon a few rounds per day.

Liberty's Edge

Jonah "Deadshot" Johnson wrote:
and yet noble drow exists.... which is like a 30 something... at the same time alot of the abilities given have large resrictions... draconic rage only lasts for 3 rounds and cant be stacked on each other, and even the dragon form feat has less of a duration than the actual spell and won't even scale in comparison to the spell at higher levels.

1) No one allows players to play drow nobles without some other balancing factor (ie. all drow nobles or other powerful races, LA, etc.)

2) Drow nobles are not balanced, they're not intended to be. And yet they're still weaker than your race.

3) Paizo can get away with putting out non-balanced items without people caring, you cannot.

So, no, your race isn't balanced. It isn't close. it is so laughably imbalanced I literally didn't know what you wanted it balanced with regards to.

Scarab Sages

A ton of stat boosts, dragon type, energy immunity, breath weapon, rage, armor bonus, Low light vision, bonus feat that is better than most normal feats... congrats, you've made a half-dragon race that is arguably more powerful than a full dragon.

No, it is not balanced. Try getting it into the 10-15 RP range and resubmitting it. About as balanced as Pun-Pun.


Drow nobles really aren't suitable for PCs in most campaigns, and likewise, I think your half-dragons are too powerful as well. However... Paizo built a bunch of racial "noble" feats that basically let a regular common drow grow into a drow noble. Perhaps you could strip your half-dragons down to their bare essence, then create a series of racial feats that let them grow into their full suite of half-dragon abilities?

By comparison with your half-dragons, Kobold Press's Midgard Campaign Setting has a dragonkin race, built like so:

Dragonkin Characters:
All dragonkin have the following racial traits.

+2 Strength, −2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma: Dragonkin are strong and exude presence, but they are not quick.

Slow Speed: Dragonkin have a base speed of 20 feet, and their speed is never modified by encumbrance or armor.

Darkvision: Dragonkin can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Energy Resistance: Dragonkin must choose acid, cold, fire, lightning, or sonic energy at 1st level. They have DR 2 against that energy type.

Armor: Dragonkin have a +1 natural armor bonus.

Presence: Dragonkin gain a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate and Diplomacy checks. Fly is always a class skill for dragonkin.

Languages: All dragonkin begin with both the Trade Tongue and Draconic as known languages. Dragonkin who have high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Dwarvish, Elemental, Elvish, Infernal, Kobold, Minotaur, Nurian, or Darakhul (Ghoulish/Undercommon).

That's a considerable power difference than your half-dragons. KQ's Advanced Races #4: Dragonkin supplement offers racial feats to allow them to grow in racial abilities.

---

As is, a party of three core/below 15 RP races plus your half-dragon will take an experience penalty on encounters (per the ARG sidebar on pg. 219). If you still want to run your half-dragon as is, as a GM, I'd bump the other three PCs in the party up to 3rd level with your 1st level half-dragon, and probably not give the half-dragon the customary 2 starting traits.


ShadowcatX wrote:
Jonah "Deadshot" Johnson wrote:
and yet noble drow exists.... which is like a 30 something... at the same time alot of the abilities given have large resrictions... draconic rage only lasts for 3 rounds and cant be stacked on each other, and even the dragon form feat has less of a duration than the actual spell and won't even scale in comparison to the spell at higher levels.

1) No one allows players to play drow nobles without some other balancing factor (ie. all drow nobles or other powerful races, LA, etc.)

2) Drow nobles are not balanced, they're not intended to be. And yet they're still weaker than your race.

3) Paizo can get away with putting out non-balanced items without people caring, you cannot.

So, no, your race isn't balanced. It isn't close. it is so laughably imbalanced I literally didn't know what you wanted it balanced with regards to.

1) not all DM or players for that matter care...its a matter of making the challenges harder for that character to over come

2) then why stat it so that people can play it? i mean the same logic goes to stating gods in 3.5. if you don't want it playable don't come up with rules to make it playable
3) how does this even make sense! if paizo can make an OP class, race, ect. official without everyone getting butthurt then why can't a regular player make one using their EXACT SAME RULES.

i understand that the RP points are high. and the "tweeks" i mentioned earlier were actually rules i set in place so that the abilities i gave couldn't be abused, such as the breath weapon, "usable 1/day" draconic rage (which despite the title isn't actually rage) only last for 3 rounds... hardly anything to sneeze at considering how many spells can give a creature that, for longer. and none of the abilities stack meaning you cant have claws and wings and come barreling from the sky like a dropped badger.

the dragon form feat has less of a duration than the actual spell.
even with an 18 con before the +2 racial bonus your looking at 7 ROUNDS the actual spell lasts for 1 MINUTE PER LEVEL and its a 6th level spell which means its even more outrageous! a 12th level sorcerer gets to be a dragon for 110 rounds any time he casts the spell but lord and behold if a fighter can do it for a max of 8 rounds at 1st. its like you people don't even look at the mechanics that have been placed... what if the person who took the form became fatigued after shifting and had to wait a few rounds til he could shift again would that appease you.


@Jonah - at the end there you are comparing races to classes. That won't help much. Also, what if your half-dragon race is a barbarian or sorceror?

Personally I don't find the Draconic Rage particularly overpowered, but the stat array of bonuses to three abilities and one of those at +4 is an indication that this is a strong race.

The Dragonform feat - what do you mean by a medium dragon? A Medium dragon or a medium dragon. If you are changing into a dragon than that is also incredibly strong.

The reason you might find people are saying this is unbalanced is that the title of your thread is "needing homebrew race playtested", and you state you are too busy right now. Other people might be too busy also, but a quick glance at this shows folks that this is much more powerful than core races. How you might think it is underpowered, or underpowered in comparison to core races will raise some eyebrows.

Personally it just feels overpowered and unfortunately overused as a trope. If your group likes it and wants to use, give it a go, and then just pare it down as you go.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

@Jonah - at the end there you are comparing races to classes. That won't help much. Also, what if your half-dragon race is a barbarian or sorceror?

Personally I don't find the Draconic Rage particularly overpowered, but the stat array of bonuses to three abilities and one of those at +4 is an indication that this is a strong race.

The Dragonform feat - what do you mean by a medium dragon? A Medium dragon or a medium dragon. If you are changing into a dragon than that is also incredibly strong.

The reason you might find people are saying this is unbalanced is that the title of your thread is "needing homebrew race playtested", and you state you are too busy right now. Other people might be too busy also, but a quick glance at this shows folks that this is much more powerful than core races. How you might think it is underpowered, or underpowered in comparison to core races will raise some eyebrows.

Personally it just feels overpowered and unfortunately overused as a trope. If your group likes it and wants to use, give it a go, and then just pare it down as you go.

i see your point... gauging this to core races was not what i was going for. i guess trying to make a playable race without level adjustment is harder than one realizes. ill just take this back to the drawing bored and give it a lvl adjustment +5 until i can tweek it a bit more...


so im bringing this thread back to life after some heavy editing to the above race. you can find that here . in case anyone was wondering, i've gotten the racial points down to 29 and this is everything ive done.
Darast'Rek Racial Point Cost

Type: Humanoid 0 RP
Size: Medium 0 RP
Base Speed: Normal (30 ft.) 0 RP
Ability Score Modifier: Standard (+2 Strength, -2 Constitution, +2 Charisma) 0 RP
Advanced Strength 4 RP
Advance Constitution (x2) 5 RP
Languages: Linguist 1 RP
Defense: Natural Armor 2 RP
Improved Natural Armor 1 RP
Skill Bonus: Perception 2 RP
Movement: Flight 4 RP
Offense: Breath Weapon 1 RP
Extra Breath Weapon 1 RP
Powerful Breath Weapon 1 RP
Claws 2 RP
Sense: Low-light Vision 1 RP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------
Total: (Advanced Monstrous) 29 RP


BUMP

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

It's still ridiculously overpowered. Insanely powerful ability scores. All the languages they want. +2 natural armor. Flight at 1st level.

It should be noted that the drow noble was not designed to be a player race. In fact, most of the example races are explicitly meant for world building and NPCs.


Cyrad wrote:

It's still ridiculously overpowered. Insanely powerful ability scores. All the languages they want. +2 natural armor. Flight at 1st level.

It should be noted that the drow noble was not designed to be a player race. In fact, most of the example races are explicitly meant for world building and NPCs.

That was stated before and i have excepted that. Linguist is a staple of most uncommon races and isn't that beneficial since you need a high enough Intelligence in order to make use of it. Did you even bother reading the actual document or are you just going off the racial point sheet because honestly i used the racial stats that were given as a base and tweeked them. Granted i did see a problem with flight lasting for an hour and fixed it but the fact is that it is still not the same flight that is in the original book. so for future commentors i ask only this:

READ THE DOCUMENT FIRST AND CRITQUE MECHANIC ISSUES FIRST AND THEN PERSONAL OPINIONS!!!


Honestly, +4 STR, +2 CON, +2 CHA alone is on the overpowered side. The Draconic Aspect feels like it's dipping too little of a toe into too many pools, with a list of feats to enhance it that seem like they'd take over the entire feat list of some characters, but still no way to get more rounds than con modifier per use.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

What document? Did you post a link describing the fluff for your race? Or do you mean the Advanced Race Guide?


Cyrad wrote:
What document? Did you post a link describing the fluff for your race? Or do you mean the Advanced Race Guide?

this document

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

What's the fluff of this race? That's the most important part of a race because it guides all your design decisions. I don't even know what they look like. I originally thought they look like a dragonborn, but they have the human subtype. Maybe this would be better off as a dragon heritage skinwalker?

It also concerns me you give them Linguist just because other races have it. They should have that trait because it's a major part of the race's cultural heritage, not because you saw other races having it.

I still stand by my earlier stance that the race is too powerful. Their ability scores are insanely good. Their abilities are really powerful, even if brief. Honestly, I don't think that's a good design. It's rather lame you can only use your race power for a couple of rounds per day. At later levels, it's still lame because you have to waste a swift action every few rounds to reactivate it. Draconic Aspect should just let you use it X rounds per day that don't need to be consecutive.

I also think some of their feats are too good, like the one that grants them DR and increases their claws to 1d8 when their claws are already really powerful. Flight should have been a trait you pick up as a feat much like the Angel Wings feat for aasimars.

The breath weapon also is not finished - there's no table for the dragon types. It only lists the damage and DC.

Overall, it feels like an overpowered mess. I honestly recommend writing out some description for the race and how it fits in a campaign world before moving onto the mechanics. It would also gives us much more to work with.

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