Mythic Campaign, New GM, and PC's slaughtering my monsters. NEED HELP!


Advice


I have a group of 5 PCs that are a 9th level Paladin, 11th level Cleric, 12th level rogue, 10th level dwarf barbarian, and 10th level wizard.

I'm putting up CR 14 graveknights, CR 12 bronze dragon with CR2 lich template, CR 11 Orc fighter with 175 HP and 6 orc henchmen and he didn't even get to attack the paladin before he was dead in two hits.

What I'm looking for are creative encounters (I've used Vargouilles that were kind of successful and Dark Creepers) that will be enjoyable and interesting. I'm currently using an CR 12 Evil Eye (beholder) the next session.

The "big baddie" that throwing all these evil/bad monsters at the adventurers is a mythic level necromancer and his boss is a Awakened Demilich. They have a significant amour of resources and they final goal which is almost complete is to kill off the dragon race and make the dragons into dracoliches using the major sword artifact Judgement to fuel this spell to kill the dragons.


Are you always throwing just one monster at a time at them? I'd suggest using at least two, otherwise the PCs will get too many actions compared to the number of actions the monster gets.


Monkplayer wrote:
CR 11 Orc fighter with 175 HP and 6 orc henchmen and he didn't even get to attack the paladin before he was dead in two hits.

I would guess not.

EDIT: Also, this thread should be in advice.


Monkplayer wrote:

I have a group of 5 PCs that are a 9th level Paladin, 11th level Cleric, 12th level rogue, 10th level dwarf barbarian, and 10th level wizard.

I'm putting up CR 14 graveknights, CR 12 bronze dragon with CR2 lich template, CR 11 Orc fighter with 175 HP and 6 orc henchmen and he didn't even get to attack the paladin before he was dead in two hits.

What I'm looking for are creative encounters (I've used Vargouilles that were kind of successful and Dark Creepers) that will be enjoyable and interesting. I'm currently using an CR 12 Evil Eye (beholder) the next session.

The "big baddie" that throwing all these evil/bad monsters at the adventurers is a mythic level necromancer and his boss is a Awakened Demilich. They have a significant amour of resources and they final goal which is almost complete is to kill off the dragon race and make the dragons into dracoliches using the major sword artifact Judgement to fuel this spell to kill the dragons.

Question why are your players different levels? APR can get a little messy and hard providing a challenging but not impossible encounter.

That said the players won't really be challenged until CR+4 or higher. Your APL is 10 but you have higher and lower players so the monster that can challenge the level 9 is easy for the level 12. Now I just did the average of the levels but CR is dependent on other factors as well like party wealth, stat array, with that in mind your part is probably a car 12 so all those monsters you posted were only a speed bump. The orc while being the lowest CR was probably the best designed encounter so far. There is a good article around here on encounter dynamics and action economy for GMs. I'm going to look for it and post it.


Onyxlion wrote:


Question why are your players different levels? APR can get a little messy and hard providing a challenging but not impossible encounter.

That said the players won't really be challenged until CR+4 or higher. Your APL is 10 but you have higher and lower players so the monster that can challenge the level 9 is easy for the level 12. Now I just did the average of the levels but CR is dependent on other factors as well like party wealth, stat array, with that in mind your part is probably a car 12 so all those monsters you posted were only a speed bump. The orc while being the lowest CR was probably the best designed encounter so far. There is a good article around here on encounter dynamics and action economy for GMs. I'm going to look for it and post it.

Any luck on that article? :)


My advice for a new GM is don't start with Mythic or at a level 10+ campaign. It might sound great to just throw power at the PCs and have them unravel your epic plot-line, but it's difficult to balance. That's not to say that you can't; it's just significantly harder, and for a new GM I don't see any real benefit in going ham out of the gate.

Mythic adds a whole host of power level issues that need to be adjusted for by each group individually. Mid-high level games can be pretty wonky in and of themselves without Mythic. Adding them together is asking for a headache if you're not properly prepared.

Scarab Sages

Combat encounters are not necessarily all about the challenge rating. Think about what the encounter represents in terms of the overall conflict. Is there a way for this conflict to tell a story of some kind based on the way it evolves? Why is a particular battle significant compared to any other battle. (Think of Spider-man's showdown with the Green Goblin on the Brooklyn Bridge)

That said, the higher you go, the harder it is to present a significant challenge to the PCs using raw combat power. At that point you have to challenge the players with strange scenarios that defy direct application of power. Giving the PCs too many objectives that need to be accomplished within too short a time or else bad consequences happen is the classic approach. Provide multiple powerful antagonists with differing agendas and do not be afraid to increase the size of the battlefield to extreme proportions. Hordes of minions are also good, and an environment that changes radically every round or two can also add spice to a combat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Assuming standard 15 or 20 point buy and standard wealth by level.
A party of 9,10,10,11,12 is APL 10.
+2 for Mythic = APL 12.
If you allowed item crafting, they are probably closer to APL 14. You could even bump up the APL by another 1 for the extra character.

Now an even encounter, EL=14 is only going to cost them 25% of their resources. If you actually want even odds (50-50) of the party losing...then you have to throw something around EL+4. Also how does the party play? Do they utilize good teamwork? How optimized are the characters?

Did you throw 4-5 of these at them in a day? Because that's the baseline.

And at this level the game can be serious rocket tag...he who goes first, wins.

Now some ways to make this more challenging:
Waves. "Heck that monster was easy...should have gone nova! Wait...what are all those red eyes staring at us from the trees?"
Incorporeal. Nothing like having some ghostly figures come forth from the walls, the floor, the ceiling and attacking from surprise.
The Linear Guild. The party of PCs has gotten such a rep for themselves that the BBEG hired an team of NPCs to face them.
Planning and preparedness...how is the party getting the drop on the bad guys? By this level, most of the baddies have survived through planning, being careful, paranoid and smart.

And it doesn't have to be a direct fight. So the party's tough...that's why the baddies are holding the level 0-1 villagers hostage...etc.


Jain_Mor wrote:
Onyxlion wrote:


...
There is a good article around here on encounter dynamics and action economy for GMs. I'm going to look for it and post it.
Any luck on that article? :)

The GM's Guide to Challenging Encounters at your service.

At the OP: How are you playing your monsters? Are they just running up and trying to full attack, while getting full attacked in turn? Did the dragon have a bunchaton of buffs, engage the party while flying at a distance, force them to burn some resources to keep up, try to get them to separate so it could take someone out one-on-one, and/or ambush the party then get out of dodge before they had a chance to react? Dragons that just rawr! full attack are usually less than amazing, it's when they fight smart and don't play fair that they wreck parties present a challenge.


Try this encounter:

Spoiler:

Mythic Golem, Flesh CR 11/MR 3
XP 12,800
Mythic Golem, Flesh
N Large construct (mythic)
Init -1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +10
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 8, flat-footed 23 (-1 Dex, -1 size, +15 natural)
hp 135 (10d10+80); fast healing 5
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +3
DR 5/adamantine, 5/epic; Immune construct traits, immunity to magic
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 slams +16 (2d8+6 plus sparking slams plus 1d10 electricity)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks berserk, greater rage, mythic brawler, mythic power (3/day, surge +1d6), sparking slams
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 9, Con —, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 1
Base Atk +10; CMB +17; CMD 26
Feats Blind-Fight, Cleave, Power Attack, Power Attack [M], Toughness, Toughness [M], Weapon Focus (slam)
Skills Perception +10
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Berserk (Ex) When a flesh golem enters combat, there is a cumulative 1% chance each round that its elemental spirit breaks free and the golem goes berserk. The uncontrolled golem goes on a rampage, attacking the nearest living creature or smashing some object sma
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Damage Reduction (5/adamantine) You have Damage Reduction against all except Adamantine attacks.
Damage Reduction (5/epic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Epic attacks (weapons with a +6 bonus).
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Energy Damage: Slam ( plus 1d10 electricity) (Ex) The creature's attack or attacks deal the specified amount of energy damage in addition to their normal damage.
Fast Healing 5 (Ex) Heal damage every round unless you are killed.
Greater Rage (10 rounds/day) (Ex) This functions as the barbarian ability of the same name, granting a +6 morale bonus to Str and Con, a +3 bonus to Will saves, and -2 to AC when active.
Immunity to Ability Damage Immunity to ability damage
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleeds You are immune to bleeds.
Immunity to Death and Necromancy effects You are immune to Death and Necromancy effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Magic (Ex) A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

• A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Non-lethal Damage You are immune to Non-Lethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Mythic Brawler (Ex) As a swift action, use 1 power to attempt a combat maneuver with no AoO.
Mythic Power (3/day, Surge +1d6) Use this power to perform your mythic abilities.
Power Attack -3/+9 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Power Attack [Mythic] Use 1 power to eliminate attack penalties of Power attack for 1 min.
Sparking Slams (Ex) Foe hit by 2 slams in same rd takes 2d10 elec dam.
Surge (1d6) Spend a use of mythic power to add the roll of a die to a d20 you just rolled
Toughness [Mythic] Gain DR 10/epic when below 0 hit points.

--------------------

Mythic Vampire CR 12/MR 4
XP 19,200
Human Vampire Fighter 7
NE Medium undead (humanoid, human, mythic)
Init +12; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +17
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 29, touch 16, flat-footed 24 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +10 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 117 (7d10+74); fast healing 5
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +4 (+2 vs. fear); +8 bonus vs. channeled energy
Defensive Abilities bravery +2, channel resistance +8, overcome weakness; DR 10/epic, 10/magic, 10/silver; Immune undead traits; Resist cold 10, electricity 10
Weakness vampire weaknesses
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 longsword +19/+14 (1d8+12/19-20) and
. . slam +10 (1d4+4)
Ranged masterwork light crossbow +12 (1d8/19-20)
Special Attacks blood drain, children of the eclipse, children of the night, create spawn, dominate (DC 17), energy drain (2 levels, DC 17), mythic power (4/day, surge +1d8), negative energy focus, scabrous claws, weapon trainings (heavy blades +1)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 18, Con —, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 19
Base Atk +7; CMB +15; CMD 31
Feats Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Deceitful, Disruptive, Disruptive [M], Dodge, Greater Weapon Focus (longsword), Improved Initiative, Improved Initiative [M], Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Toughness, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (longsword), Weapon Specialization (longsword)
Skills Bluff +21, Climb +14, Disguise +6, Intimidate +14, Perception +17, Ride +8, Sense Motive +17, Stealth +15; Racial Modifiers +8 Bluff, +8 Perception, +8 Sense Motive, +8 Stealth
Languages Common, Draconic, Undercommon
SQ armor training 2, change shape, gaseous form, shadowless, spider climb
Combat Gear +1 crossbow bolts (10), potion of inflict serious wounds; Other Gear +1 leather armor, +1 longsword, masterwork light crossbow, cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Blood Drain (Ex) Suck blood for 1d4 CON dam when pin foe and gain 5 Hp.
Bravery +2 (Ex) +2 to Will save vs. Fear
Change Shape (dire bat or wolf, beast shape II) (Su) You can change your form.
Channel Resistance +8 +8 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Children of the Eclipse (2d6 ghouls or 1d6+1 shadows) (1/day) (Su) Can use summon undead with Children of the night
Children of the Night (1/hour) (Su) Call forth rats, bats or wolves as a standard action.
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Create Spawn (Ex) Opponents killed by Energy Drain rise 1d4 days after burial.
Damage Reduction (10/epic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Epic attacks (weapons with a +6 bonus).
Damage Reduction (10/magic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Magic attacks.
Damage Reduction (10/silver) You have Damage Reduction against all except Silver attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Disruptive +6 DC to cast defensively for those you threaten.
Disruptive [Mythic] Non-mythic foes still suffer from DC increase, even when you can't make AoO.
Dominate (DC 17) (Su) As a standard action, can use dominate person on foe in 30 ft.
Energy Drain (2 levels) (DC 17) (Ex) Foes hit by the listed attack take neg levels, gain 5 temp hp for each drained.
Energy Resistance, Cold (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Fast Healing 5 (Ex) Heal damage every round unless you are killed.
Gaseous Form (At will) (Su) Can assume gaseous form, except with 20 ft speed and perfect maneuverability.
Improved Initiative [Mythic] When rolling initiative, use 1 power to treat the roll as a natural 20.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Mythic Power (4/day, Surge +1d8) Use this power to perform your mythic abilities.
Negative Energy Focus (2/round) (Su) Energy drain can trigger multiple times in the same round.
Overcome Weakness (sunlight, garlic) (Su) Nauseated and 10 dam on 1st rd in sunlight. Other weaknesses can be ignored.
Potion of inflict serious wounds Add this item to create a potion of a chosen spell.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Draw Draw weapon as a free action (or move if hidden weapon). Throw at full rate of attacks.
Scabrous Claws (Su) As an imm action, use 1 power to gain claws (dam as slam +1d6 bleed) for 1 hr.
Shadowless (Ex) A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Spider Climb (Ex) A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell.
Surge (1d8) Spend a use of mythic power to add the roll of a die to a d20 you just rolled
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities and use Cha in place of a Con for all effects.
Vampire Weaknesses (Ex) Certain items or actions can ward off a vampire, while others destroy it.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades

--------------------

This creature looks like a tattered and desiccated humanoid about 8 feet covered in fresh blood which seems to ooze and weep from its body. Its clothes hang in rags and are soaked in blood as well. Its hands end in sharpened claws and its eyes display no signs of life.
--------------------
Wight, Blood CR 9
XP 6,400
Wight, Blood
CE Large undead
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+2 Dex, -1 size, +10 natural)
hp 90 (12d8+36); fast healing 5
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +9; +5 bonus vs. channeled energy
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +5; DR 10/bludgeoning, 10/magic; Immune undead traits; Resist fire 10
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 claws +14 (1d8+5 plus 1 bleed) and
. . unarmed strike +13/+8 (1d4+5)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks bleed (1), engulf
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 15, Con —, Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 16
Base Atk +9; CMB +15 (+17 grapple); CMD 27 (29 vs. grapple)
Feats Alertness, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (claw)
Skills Acrobatics +10, Climb +20, Escape Artist +18, Perception +20, Sense Motive +3, Stealth +11, Survival +11; Racial Modifiers +8 Escape Artist
Languages Common
--------------------
ECOLOGY
--------------------
Environment any
Organization solitary or pair
Treasure none
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bleed (1) (Ex) Attack causes additional damage at the beginning of the target's turn.
Channel Resistance +5 +5 bonus to save vs. Channel Energy.
Damage Reduction (10/bludgeoning) You have Damage Reduction against all except Bludgeoning attacks.
Damage Reduction (10/magic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Magic attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Energy Resistance, Fire (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Engulf (Ex) A blood wight can try to wrap a Medium or smaller creature in its body as a standard action. The blood wight attempts a grapple check that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and claws its op
Fast Healing 5 (Ex) Heal damage every round unless you are killed.
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleeds You are immune to bleeds.
Immunity to Death Effects You are immune to death effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Non-lethal Damage You are immune to Non-Lethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Physical Ability Damage Immune to ability damage to your physical abilities.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities and use Cha in place of a Con for all effects.

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The Lich got tired of playing small fry and is sending a vampire minion after them - the vampire has a flesh golem as his servant along with a blood wight as a thrall. The flesh golem rages on the first round of combat and activates the mythic ability to negate power attack penalties - note the wight and golem both have 10 foot reach. The vampire stays behind the two reach mooks and attempts to dominate the rogue or barbarian - using them to flank and get a tactical advantage against the party if possible. Have the vampire use it's children of the eclipse ability to summon rat or bat swarms prior to the encounter - 1d6ish swarms won't really be much of a threat but he'll send these after the cleric to disrupt spellcasting - and the wizard if possible - these should head in as soon as combat starts.

If the vampire is unable to dominate one of the melee the wight will attempt to engulf the rogue (assuming it still lives) - at this point I'd have the vampire wade into combat using it's energy drain - note that the mythic vampire energy drains through it's weapon attacks and natural attacks up to twice per round - make sure the vampire uses its claw ability which gives it's natural attack +1d4 bleed in addition to the damage and potential energy drain.

See if that encounter is a challenge - and adjust up or down from there.

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