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Witchwar Spell Recommendations?

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I've got a friend who's thinking of running a gestalt game using Witchwar Legacy. I'm thinking up a Sorcerer/Oracle to do the general nuking and some light healing. Does anyone want to help me think of some fun spells for this module? Here's what my spell list is looking like right now:

Spoiler:
Sorcerer

Lvl 0
Mage Hand
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Light
Ghost Sound
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation
Open/Close
Mending

Lvl 1
Endure Elements
Mage Armor
Shield
Snowball
Swift Girding

Lvl 2
Blur
Burning Arc
Knock
Arcane Lock
Pyrotechnics

Lvl 3
Battering Blast
Dispel Magic
Haste
Fireball
Lightning Bolt

Lvl 4
Black Tentacles
Confusion
Dimension Door
Enervation

Lvl 5
Cone of Cold
Fabricate
Icy Prison
Telekinesis

Lvl 6
Battlemind Link
Chain Lightning
Disintegrate

Lvl 7
Finger of Death
Mage’s Magnificent Mansion
Mass Fly

Lvl 8
Polymorph Any Object
Horrid Wilting

Oracle

Lvl 0
Create Water
Enhanced Diplomacy
Guidance
Purify Food and Drink
Spark

Lvl 1
Bless
Comprehend Languages
Embrace Destiny
Shield of Faith
Weapons Against Evil

Lvl 2
Spiritual Weapon
Early Judgement
Grace
Make Whole
Weapon of Awe

Lvl 3
Bestow Curse
Create Food and Water
Magic Circle Against Evil
Magic Vestments

Lvl 4
Freedom Of Movement
Holy Smite
Terrible Remorse
Tongues

Lvl 5
Boneshatter
Break Enchantment
Major Curse
Flame Strike

Lvl 6
Banishment
Heroes’ Feast
Heal

Lvl 7
Bestow Grace of the Champion
Holy Word
Ressurection

Lvl 8
Fire Storm
Stormbolts

If anyone wants to know, I'm thinking up a Starsoul bloodline and Lore mystery. I've just not added those bonus spells yet.

Needs more emergency force sphere. You also want to be a half elf or human for the bonus spells known FCB. Otherwise the following spells should really just be wands or scrolls:

Endure Elements
Shield
Bless
Comprend Languages

I would not take the following Sorcerer Spells:

Swifft Girding - you wont be wearing armour and you will be resting inside a magic mansion so you dont need to worry about ambushes

Blur - Mirror Image is simply better

Pyrotechnics - doesnt do very much

Fabricate - useful but easily on a scroll, you arent likely to be casting this often

Cone of Cold - a rather poor blasting spell

Mass Fly - you are level 16, each group member should have their own means of flight by now

Finger of Death - this is just a bad save or do moderate damage

Horrid Wilting - unless you are heavily specialised direct damage is generally poor

I would not take the following Oracle Spells:

Embrace Destiny - its duration means you are casting this is combat which is a bit of a waste. You could quicken it but there are better things you could be doing with a quickened spell at this level

Weapons against Evil - you are level 16, people dependant on weapons should have +5 equivalents by now, that means they will be ignoring DR already

Spiritual Weapon - doesnt work with Charisma unless your GM amends it. Not a particularly strong spell at this level in any event

Create Food and Water - unnecessary when you already have Heroes Feast

Terrible Remorse - this spell has been subject to significant errata and is now not very good

Tongues - you can have this as a permanent spell by now

Major Curse - this is just Bestow Curse with a range. You could instead take Reach Spell and do it with a level lower slot.

Bestow Grace of the Champion - this is an amazing spell but note it only works on Lawful Good targets.

Fire Storm - more rather poor direct damage. Stormbolts is OK at this level as it also stuns, Firestorm just fills a big area.

Things which I think you are missing:

Some decent battlefield control. You have black tentacles but at this level it isn't very good as enemy CMD outstrips the CMB of the spell. I would add in a few spells like Hungry Pit, Stinking Cloud, Wall of Force.

Some strong single target removal. Icy Prison is decent but personally I prefer Baleful Polymorph. Some form of will based charm or control would also help significantly. Suggestion, Dominate Person (works on lots of things nowadays that it didnt used to), Charm Monster.

More defensive options. Emergency Force Sphere should pretty much be mandatory for any caster at this level but you also want some of the more basic stuff. Communal Resist Energy, Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Veil, Spell Turning, Mind Blank. You dont need all of them but some would be really helpful. You absolutely do need some form of easy access energy resistance.

More curative options. There are lots of lower level Cleric condition removal spells which can be vital. Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis, Remove Blindness, Remove Fear, Remove Sickness. Many of them work fine as scrolls but you may want some of them.

You are also lacking any real transportation options. You get Overland Flight from the bloodline which is great but you want Dimension Door and some form of Teleport. I would also highly recommend Plane Shift on the Cleric side as one of the most effective will based removal spells in addition to the travel option.

Finally it wouldnt be a Sorcerer/Oracle thread if I didnt mention Paragon Surge and its ability to obtain any spell of any level you can cast by gaining the Expanded Arcana feat. It allows you to avoid all those situational spells like Resurrection and Break Enchantment.

At the end of the day it is quite possible for a solo high level caster to solo the entire module, I can only imagine the havoc a gestalt character would do to it.

Thank you for the advice, andreww. Some of the lower leveled spells on the list are just to fill up some slots and had nothing better come to mind. Though for Endure Elements, I thought that might be more useful in Irrisen climates. The Create Food and Water, Swift Girding, and Weapons Against Evil were simply because I ended up taking Leadership and thought it would be useful for any mass battle involving my followers.

I may have not changed it here, but I believe I switched Mass Fly with Firebrand for the same reason, and how it matches with Firestorm and other such spells. I also enjoy direct damage spells, as I'd like to be the party nuker, but I do agree some battlefield control seems reasonable.

As for Cone of Cold, there is a section of Adventurer's Armory that states using Liquid Ice as a material component does an extra +1 damage per CL, so I was hoping to boost the effectiveness that way. However, I could be mistaken about how useful this would be.

I did pick up Heal, but that is a higher level spell. Do you still think I need Remove X at lower levels? I could probably replace Spiritual Weapon with one.

Also, thanks again, I'm very interested in what I could do with this character.

I would still have access to the Remove spels. Heal may cover the same situations but you have a limited number of level 6+ spell slots and they are probably better for offence.

Endure Elements will absolutely be an important spell for the module but it lasts 24 hours regardless of the caster level and so a wand will cover you for 50 days at a cost of 750gp. Alternatively buy a lot of scrolls at 25gp each.

Cone of Cold is just not very good. It scales to 15d6 and even adding an extra +15 static damage isnt very much. Average level 16 monster HP are 240. Average boosted Cone of Cold damage is 68 if they fail their save. If you want to blast then you need far more focus on increasing the damage values and DC's.

If you have determined to go with bl;asting then consider one of the damage increasing bloodlines. Draconic or Orc will all add some damage to your spells. Crossblooded Orc/Draconic will add a lot but at the cost of spells known. Invest heavily in Intensify Spell, Empower Spell and pick a spell for Spell Perfection. If you want to add control then grab Dazing Spel. You will also need to increase save DC's so Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus are important as well as get past SR. I recommend grabbing an Otherworldly Kimono for +4 to caster level versus SR.

I've already picked up Empower and Intensified Spell. As for overcoming SR, I've picked up a good deal of items that increase CL, but should I swap out a feat for Spell Penetration?

Furthermore, the GM picked out Starsoul for me, so I don't think I aught to change it out. If I did, I think I could only get away as far as Void-Touched without seeming rude. I did pick up a Robe of Arcane Heritage to grab the capstone early, though. I think the cold immunity might at least be useful here.

That dpends on what the rest of your feats are and how much you have increased your caster level. It also depends on how much you will rely on SR affected Evocations versus SR: No Conjurations.

Mostly various metamagic feats. I did pick up Noble Scion to get CHA to Initiative. I also grabbed a 3rd party feat to get CHA to Will saves, as well as Leadership. But other than those three, I think I'm pretty flexible in what I can pick up feat-wise.

Metamagic is pretty much the way to go for the sorcerer. Consider grabbing a Staff of the Master Necromancer as well if you are able to. It is an incredibly flexible item.

Hmmm, noted. Right now, I've got Selective, Elemental, Quicken, Intensified, and Empower Spell. I've also picked up Spell Perfection on Chain Lightning. Does this seem like a good setup? Should I switch out some of these metamagics for Spell Focus or the like?

Intensified wont do anything for chain lightning at this point. I would replace it with Dazing. Similarly Selective wont do much for Chain Lightning but might be useful for others such as Holy Word.

You definately want Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus as their benefit is doubled by Spell Perfection.

The reason I have Intensified is because it keeps my lower level damage spells relevant. 20d6+20 Cone of Cold isn't exactly a bad level 6 slot. Were I to get rid of anything, I think I'd drop Selective, grabbing Firebrand and dropping Elemental spells to prevent friendly fire. Holy Word doesn't bother me too much with Selective as my group seems to mostly consist of players who go for good alignments.

Bear in mind that level 6 spell slot could instead be a freely empowered Chain Lightning or a freely Dazing Chain Lightning or a freely Quickened Chain Lightning because of the benefit of Magical Lineage and Spell Perfection.

Unfortunately/fortunately, I left out my feat/trait combo that I'm pretty well entrenched with already. Craft Wondrous Item and Spark of Creation. Lets me make my stuff at 45% price. So Magical Lineage is out, though I might go for a Dazing.

The only thing that concerns me is that my GM let it slip that electric damage won't be useful. He may have been lying, but I'm wary...

You could always pick up Additional Traits. I have run through the module and dont recall Electrical damage being an issue. Cold yes, that might be a problem but not Electricity. If you dont have an Elemental Spell feat then I would pick up a metamagic rod just in case. Also as a gestalt character with a massive number of spells you will have alternate options.

Very true. I may pick up a Rod, but I like having the feat for comfort's sake. Hmmmmm.

I'm also still curious what else I should pick up, spell-wise.

Also, can't you not grab two magic traits even with AT?

Yes you cant, is the Craft one a Magic Trait?

Spell wise I would repeat my original list, the big ones are resist Energy, Emergency Force Sphere, some form of Teleportation and Plane Shift.

Makes sense. I was wondering what other blasty spells you'd recommend, as well. Definitely planning to switch out Icy Prison for Baleful Polymorph or Dominate Person.

Feather Fall and Liberating Command both are immediate actions and since you could cast them till the cow come home over and over again you are the best caster for them.

Admonishing Ray it by pass energy resistance or immune to Acid/Cold/Fire/Electricity and give you the take prisoner option.

Blur vs Mirror Image … Blur is good for dungeon due to long duration of 10 minute per level. Mirror Image is good for boss fight due it 1 minute per level. Both stop about the same amount of hit in the long run per casting but you have cast mirror image over and over again get the same defense over time power. Blur is touch where mirror image is personal. With those two facts in my book Blur beats mirror for a spam caster. If you are Wizard and have tow go with only one or the other I would do mirror image. But you are a sorcerer that can cast the same spell over and over again. Blur I think is stronger for you.

Acid Splash and disrupt undead as sorcerer for range touch at-will and no SR on Acid Splash.

Haunted add the following spell to your Oracle known list.
mage hand, ghost sound, levitate, minor image, telekinesis and reverse gravity

Must have Blessing of Fervor 4th level Cleric/ Oracle. Stacking with haste…

Increase its speed by 30 feet.
Dose not stack
Stand up as a swift action without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Dose stack
Make one extra attack as part of a full attack action, using its highest base attack bonus.
Dose not stack
Gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.
Dose stack
Cast a single spell of 2nd level or lower as if it were an enlarged, extended, silent, or still spell
Dose stack

Free enlarged and or extended right now I see 12 spell on your list that could greatly take advantage of that fact.

Prayer 3rd level cleric or oracle spell.

If you full buff the party for 4 rounds
Bless, Haste Prayer, and Blessing of Fervor. That +5 to hit +1 damage, +3 AC, and 1 to all save and +1 vs fear and +3 to Reflex saves, for every one…. Side note you could extend the Bless and Blur for free to last multiple fights.

Stone Skin +Shield other + mass cure X spell/ Channel to heal … Big time Damage mitigation

Stone Skin+ blur the meat shield or striker. So he is hit less often and when he is hit take 10 less… then shares ½ that get through with you….you the cast mass cure x spell or channel and it effectively heal twice as much the damage that got through.

Hmm, more buffs certainly couldn't hurt. Thanks for the input!

My advice is from both an optimization standpoint and a play standpoint with both classes.

I only really have your spell list to work with not a full build but here goes.

Being a half-elf may or may not be even stronger in gestalt, depending on how your GM rules with favored class. It is probably your strongest race anyway, but being able to grab both a sorcerer spell known and an oracle spell known at every level due to having two favored classes is very strong.

Lore/Starsoul is kinda cool I must say. I think it works really well if you take the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype. You give up some damage powers to get a familiar, Varisian Tattoo, and some minor stuff. Further, while Lore is not one of the stronger mysteries normally, it works great for you because you need your feats for other things.

Sorcerer Spells
1 Grease, Magic Missile
2 Mirror Image, Invisibility, See Invisibility (You get Glitterdust anyways)
3 Fly, Suggestion, Stinking Cloud
4 Wall of Ice
5 Acidic Spray, Teleport
6 Contingency
7 Project Image

Oracle Spells
1 Ant Haul, Obscuring Mist, Touch of Truthtelling
2 Silence, Resist Energy
3 PARAGON SURGE, Speak With Dead, Water Breathing
4+ Summon Monster 4+

Paragon Surge is so good on this character it is criminal. Just learn it as your first 3rd level Oracle spell known and never want for the right spell again. Cast Paragon Surge to get the feat Expanded Arcana and now you know any spell on your spell list, either class. You don't need to mess around with the arcane heritage tree or anything else.

I'm not so sure about Paragon Surge, since my GM is a stickler for the rules. I'm not playing a half-elf and I'd rather take the extra spell/level FCB that humans get. Though wouldn't (Greater) Command be better than Suggestion?

Like I said at the top I don't know the full build. If you are playing a human disregard my advice to play a half-elf, that was an optimization suggestion. The spell Paragon Surge is the reason that half-elf is a very strong choice for both sorcerers and oracles separately. The rest of my advice stands for a human. The character sounds like they will be fun to play.

Half Elves can take human FCB's. Be a half elf.

As to Suggestion, the spell is poorly worded. You will want to speak to your GM about it before you select it, and it only targets one creature. On the other hand Command (Greater) limits you to 5 specific commands, none of which are "Surrender and give us all your loot then go to jail."

Half-Elves can take humans favored class bonus and they get two favored classes, which is why how it interacts with gestalt (something from 3.5) is in question. The way I read it is that whenever you gain a level in either favored class you get a favored class bonus, so you get it once for each class each level.

True. But that seems like it would easily fall under andreww's suggestion of Dominate Person.

Also, the way my GM is doing it, I'm only getting the one extra spell per level, but it could be from either the Oracle or Sorcerer list.

Dominate Person is a 5th level spell, and only works on humanoids. Don't get me wrong, Dominate is awesome, but it is used differently. Dominate spells are great for getting yourself some bodyguards and winning social encounters. Suggestion is basically save or lose in both combat and social encounters. Dominate is something you use to plan out awesome wins and is a limited save or lose for the level. Suggestion is a win button spell like fireball. It has restrictions like knowing the language of whatever you want to talk to, being mind effecting, being all or nothing, but this is a spell that simply wins certain encounters.

Hmmmm... Interesting things to think of.

If I were to pick up Reach Spell, what other touch ranged spells do you think I could make good with it? I'm thinking Irresistible Dance might be useful, if not particularly blasty.

Here's an updated list. Any new thoughts?

Spoiler:
Sorcerer

Lvl 0
Mage Hand
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Light
Ghost Sound
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation
Open/Close
Mending

Lvl 1
Endure Elements
Mage Armor
Shield
Snowball
Grease

Lvl 2
Blur
Burning Arc
Knock
Arcane Lock
Invisibility
See Invisibility

Lvl 3
Battering Blast
Suggestion
Haste
Fireball
Lightning Bolt

Lvl 4
Wall of Fire
Confusion
Dimension Door
Enervation

Lvl 5
Hungry Pit
Dominate Person
Baleful Polymorph
Teleport
Acidic Spray

Lvl 6
Battlemind Link
Chain Lightning
Disintegrate
Contingency

Lvl 7
Finger of Death
Mage’s Magnificent Mansion
Firebrand
Spell Turning

Lvl 8
Polymorph Any Object
Horrid Wilting

Oracle

Lvl 0
Create Water
Enhanced Diplomacy
Guidance
Purify Food and Drink
Spark

Lvl 1
Bless
Divine Favor
Remove Paralysis
Shield of Faith
Touch of Truthtelling

Lvl 2
Spiritual Weapon
Resist Energy
Grace
Make Whole
Arrow of Law
Weapon of Awe

Lvl 3
Bestow Curse
Prayer
Magic Circle Against Evil
Magic Vestments

Lvl 4
Freedom Of Movement
Holy Smite
Blessings of Fervor
Death Ward
Debilitating Portent

Lvl 5
Boneshatter
Break Enchantment
Major Curse
Flame Strike

Lvl 6
Banishment
Heroes’ Feast
Heal

Lvl 7
Jolting Portent
Holy Word
Resurrection

Lvl 8
Fire Storm
Stormbolts


Included some FCB spells.
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