I’ve failed, and I need your help in getting over it.


Gamer Life General Discussion


I’ve failed a group of players and I don’t know how to get over this feeling of shame.

You see, a while back I had a germ of an idea for a scenario in which the characters had all been granted a powerful wish, but their wishes were granted with a negative side affect (the least of which was the death of one of the party members, a truly good man who was a friend to everyone in the party).

So I recruited for the game, set up an elaborate setting that would allow the players to seek redemption for their characters by recreating the situation that granted their wishes, and hopefully, learn how to undo what had been done.

But, in the execution of the game I failed miserably. The game is stalled and I can’t seem to get the players motivated in any way to get it moving again, and I think I know where I went wrong.

First, I should have suspected that this kind of scenario was better suited to a group of players that already knew one another well, and had a solid group dynamic in place.

Second, I don’t think I made the negative aspects of the wishes harsh enough to motivate the players to really push for getting the wishes undone

And last, I think I should have included at least one NPC, to be a nagging voice, pushing the players onward and making decisions for the group when it became obvious that they did not feel motivated to make decisions of their own.

But mostly I feel terrible, and so I started this thread in the hopes of hearing stories from other players who have had similar experiences, and maybe share with me what you did to get over your failure and get back in the saddle.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

There is no "get over your failure". There is get back in the saddle, or not. Ask them if they want to continue, and if so, do so ready to change the campaign into a direction they (and you) like better. If not, make something else for them. We are GMs, we get brain-burps about what would be fun sometimes. It's not supposed to be the end of the world; creativity needs a license to fail at times.

Best of luck.


Thanks Sissyl!

The Exchange

Not all ideas that seem cool necessarily execute well. It happens all the time, so basically: get over it. Chances are it'll happen again too. Consider it a learning experience, take from it what worked and what didn't, and then build upon your experience.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

It happens. My biggest failure as a GM was a high powered (1500 points - I'm talking Superman, Hulk, or Dr Manhattan level) GURPS supers game. Our group was six players and we had been playing for a while, but everyone built their own hero and there wasn't any real synergy between them.

The opening scenario was there was a group of three 500 pt super villains were hired by a mythos cult to steal artifacts from several museums. Unknown to the villains, these were to summon/awaken ALL the old ones and outer gods. The PCs were supposed to easily stop the thieves to get a lead on the cult.

What happened was my group of thieves were completely outclassed by the PCs as individuals but I had built them to work as a team. One was a battlefield controller who had the ability to create a smoke field that blocked all vision except for the team. None of the PCs had any powers to let them deal with loss of sight. Another one was a defense specialist that set up force fields on himself and his team members, that combined with the lack of targeting, kept the one lucky hit from taking out the smoker. The final one was a blaster who sent homing ice shards at the heroes.

Because I dominated the field with tactical superiority, my group of three villains TPKed a team twice their sized made up of people that were each more than three times as powerful as they were individually.

It was a learning experience for me, and I still think about it if I ever run a game.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'll echo Syssyl and say that every person needs to give themselves license to fail, in every aspect of their lives. As Samuel Smiles once said, "We learn wisdom from failure much more than from success. We often discover what will do, by finding out what will not do; and probably he who never made a mistake never made a discovery." If we do not try something new, we'll never know it doesn't work.

Having said that, the scenario you developed and one of your possible solutions (nagging NPC) sound awfully railroad-ish. I've discovered over the years that leading characters down a linear path to directly where you want them to go will kill a game faster than a well placed hand grenade. This does not mean all games must be sandbox, but it does mean, at least in my experience, that you have to allow the players more than one way, and more than one reason, to get where they are going.


Terquem wrote:


Second, I don’t think I made the negative aspects of the wishes harsh enough to motivate the players to really push for getting the wishes undone

I wonder why you felt the need to give the PCs something only to want to take it back? Was this planned right from the start (and if so why wouldn't the group already know each other well from having gone through the wish granting phase of it?)

Quote:


And last, I think I should have included at least one NPC, to be a nagging voice, pushing the players onward and making decisions for the group when it became obvious that they did not feel motivated to make decisions of their own.

A terrible idea in almost every instance. You want creative control over the group now too? yeah this would have made a bad situation much, MUCH worse.

Quote:


But mostly I feel terrible, and so I started this thread in the hopes of hearing stories from other players who have had similar experiences, and maybe share with me what you did to get over your failure and get back in the saddle.

Shrug my shoulders, say "Well, THAT sucked. Sorry guys. Give me a week or two and we can either start a new game or drop this crappy adventure and start a new one with the same PCs. Let me know over email. Lets go grab pizza - my treat!"

It's a game. There is no 'failure' there is just an end. Followed by a new beginning using the new knowledge you have to make an even better game!

Dark Archive

I had a long post but it got eaten by the internets. I need to get back to working on a beta test module for a new game (that I'm running tonight!!) so I will keep it short.

1st off relax and breathe

2nd re-examine everything you have presented and what you think the players have assessed of the situation. Are there any angles you could exploit, are there things you missed that could be worked to improve the situation?

Addressing each point with as much info as you posted.

On the 1st issue of not knowing each other that well (and being invested) I have a solution but that will come further down.

Negative impact of the wishes: The fact that they haven't fully hit home still can work. Without specifics one approach is the zero sum game. Maybe a player asked for a special power or boon, only to find out that after time - other heroes - maybe even higher level legends are suddenly bereft of a similar power and are being killed. After hearing a few stories of this kind the players will eventually begin to connect the loss of the npcs power to their power gain. And as the heroes die, so do the people they protect - avalanche the problem. Don't stop with one body, keep feeding them more bodies till everyone they know, meet or love is dead or dying. The negative effects of the wish should make them pariahs. They should want to hide their heads from the sun.

Nagging voice: the nagging voices will be in their heads. You don't need a 3rd party to show the effect of the wishes after the bodies start to pile up, people begin to starve in the streets and there begin the rumors of war. All because the players wanted something that they should by all rights not have ever possessed. There can even be ghosts or signs of the "wrongness" of the wish. An undoing of nature, of right, or even of the light and world around them. Things become distorted. Those wishes will start to taste like coppery blood in their mouths.

Nemesis: Who gave them the wishes? Did a force of evil do so to get something in return? Maybe some chumps who got a power boost so that 10 or 100 other guys (good guys) could lose it? Players hate to be played off as chumps. Put the effect right on their head.
And to them knowing each other? The wish can only be undone by the people who received them - so now your disparate group is bound by that damn wish and the chain of bodies attached to that wish. Those wishes makes them the only friends they can have or trust. A dirty secret if you will. If people found out that their wish was the cause of misery in the land, they would be wanted and hunted men. They would be torn to pieces. If their isn't a nemesis who was behind the wishes you need to make one ASAP. And maybe he/it can be a very tough bastard of a BBEG, so straight assault would be suicide.

You make a good nemesis and most of your problems are solved.
When the players realize that they were manipulated and are in sort of a contract they will chomp at the bit to kill the SOB who put them there. They will do their best to stuff those wishes down the throat of the deceiver who got them to do their dirty work. I think a perfect ending would be the PCs killing the wish giver and taking themselves out in the process if it makes thing "right". That's just me, because I think death at the end of a scenario doesn't = failure. It doesn't need to be that grim though.

Read the Monkeys Paw by WW Jacobs.

Anyway, I need to get back to Extinction Event.
Good luck.

Edit: DMs don't need pity, you just need a fix. If my fixes don't work get inspired for your game to find something that does.


I ran a six year campaign, 1st to ~16th level, multiple minor plot points and one major story arc flowing through it since around 4th level. After completing a significant side plot the PCs had some down time, hanging out with some elven deity avatars getting questions answered (or pointed in the right directions for answers). That session, I went over the multiple options for following up on the major story arc, along with mentioning minor unfinished plots, as well as offering the 'strike out in your own direction' option. Then I asked the players what they wanted to do. I got blank stares. Then, I got mundane endeavors requests; hang out with the spouse and kids, teach at the wizard college, oversee family business, etc. I told the players to take a couple days and get back to me on what adventure plot(s) they wanted to pursue next. A couple days went by, no reply. So I ended the campaign; wrote up a long "if the PCs chose to do X then Y" email that wrapped up all the loose threads as I had planned and revealed how the PCs 'retired.' I took a couple years off from GMing and then started back up when they began requesting that I do so.

Obviously this was my fault, I failed. A. They weren't interested in following up on my plots, and B. I should have pushed/railroaded them a bit to get the back on track if they were just needing more time to process (instead of just disliking/not-caring about the plots).

The main take away was "never expect your players (the people, not the PCs) to do anything you even remotely hope they will do." Never plan an adventure where you create a bottleneck that depends on the players making a specific decision. But if you do, create actions/events that forces the players to make a decision (even if it's not the one you originally planned for them to make).

For the wish with a negative effect scenario; planning on the players wanting to get rid of the negative effect, making sure that option is available, is good. But if the players don't care then you have to come up with something else, the wish event becomes just that...an event in the campaign history that the players are fine with letting their characters live with. Making the negative effect harsher may have worked, but it also may have made the players more happy to play their adversely affected characters or just give up all together and not trust you as a GM.

You could have an agent of the dead friend-NPC's deity come to the PCs to "right the wrong" and go from there. But if the players don't care...then it's off to slay a dragon or raze a village or two.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just try this. Sit down with the players and talk this over, like adults. See what they have to say.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

About 10 years ago I had my epiphany moment about assumptions of player values (and by extension character behaviors).

I was running a high powered heroes game (think avengers) but semi gritty 'reality' (ie heroes are not 'celebrities', distrusted by governments, military etc).

They encountered a plot where a villain infiltrated a top secret military research facility to steal a biological weapon. The villain was actually an escaped project from the base. The idea of the set up was that the PCs would sneak onto the base, confront the villain, engage in a 3 way battle with him and military forces, discover his origin and find useful tech to combat him in the future. They would escape prosecution for this infiltration because of the incriminating evidence that the military had created the villain, and then slowly develop a tense but co-operative relationship with them, thus legitimizing their 'hero' activities. All very convoluted.

After much set up the PC's learn of the infiltration of the military base and seek to thwart the plot. They climb in their high tech space ship vehicle and set out.

They approach the base openly, radioing to proclaim they are heroes and need to enter to stop a villain. They are refused entry and told to turn back or they will be fired upon as they have entered a restricted area. Incredulous at the response they stubbornly refuse to leave the area until they are given clearance to enter. Military fighters are scrambled and sent to 'buzz' the PCs ship in a show of force. One PC with the ability to fly exits to interact with the fighters, but after botched skill checks ends up colliding with a jet and bringing it down. They are then chased off by a significant military presence. The self righteous PCs then leave the base to the 'fate it deserves' and take no further actions to mitigate the villains evil plan. Weeks later New York is struck by a biological weapon and tens of thousands die....

At the time I was floored by the stupidity and arrogance of the players. I was annoyed because they 'ruined' a carefully crafted plot because of their unrealistic expectations of the setting and NPCs. It was only later I realized the fault was mine.

I assumed the players reached the same conclusions I would have from the information presented and would make the 'right' choices. After all, the cues were all there and very clear.

My failure was that I assumed what motivated me would motivate them, and they would make choices based in my values and sensibilities.

The most important aspect of GMing is to offer your players a story and options that engage them, not you. Never assume they will select a single way to obtain an objective, or that they will reach that conclusion if you blunt their other choices.

In retrospect I saw that the players had a very different view of what being a hero meant in the setting than I did.

The best plots are those that are open to being driven by player actions, not those that channel characters into limited choices.

To return to the OPs original issue, I feel that the players are not invested in rectifying the negative consequences of their wishes. Well you can learn from that, and in the future present the players with choices that will make them want to engage with the plot.


Wow! These are some great responses. Thanks for the stories, and the insights, it really helps. I think I can get this turned around given the ideas that have been presented here.

This is a good community, a good place to be.


These are all good points. Another to keep in mind is that a lot of story ideas really work better as just that--a story, rather than a game. Any time you're trying to figure out how to motivate the players in what is essentially THEIR story, you should look at whether it really is about them and what they want to do (rather than what the GM wants to do).


When I started GMing, there was an incident where I set up an opponent that was basically the flipside to the PCs. But when they got to the BBEG, they had prepared themselves and used great tactics...and I made the mistake of artificially inflating the BBEG's stats to make the fight longer because the PCs were doing too well. I handled it poorly, was very ham-fisted about it, and the players protested (as they should have).

Just because you *can* do a thing as a GM, doesn't mean you should.

And the best piece of GMing advice I can give is to accept that you will screw up. It's just a part of the game. Just try not to fail in the same way next time. :)


I can certainly relate as I've had my fair share of fizzled adventures.

Failure unfortunately is an occupational hazard. It sometimes happens so try not to loose too much sleep over it. Dust yourself off, learn, and move on.

What's great is you seem to have a good idea of what went wrong. So you are able and will improve.

-MD

Community / Forums / Gamer Life / General Discussion / I’ve failed, and I need your help in getting over it. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion