How to play in PF society when there are no Teir 1 games in your area? (Or how to be useful in a party four levels above you?)


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive

As the title says. I want to play in PF society but no stores in my area are holding tier 1 events anytime soon. I was told that you're allowed to play low-level characters in higher tiered events, but I really don't like this idea. As is stands, in order to NOT die in a tier 5+ event with a level 1 you'll basically have to stand back and do nothing all combat but collect XP, and while some people may like the "free ride" power-leveling that such an event would entail I personally want to be able to at least contribute to the game rather then be a useless set peice that just stands around and collects XP. However, as it stands, in higher tier events I can't see myself doing anything but that in combat with a level 1 as I like to play casters and as a result my DCs will not be good enough to compete with the monsters WELL above my level and spell resistance will be a MAJOR thing. Even if I broke down and played melee, my level 1 AC, HP and damage would be too low to really pull it's weight against monsters for a party of level 5+ PCs.

So, my questions are as follows...

A) Is there some place online that I could play tier 1 PF society regularly to level my character up to five so they would be more fit for the tier 5+ games that are always running in my area?

and more importantly...

B)If I wanted to try PF society in the manner described above, how, if at all, would a level 1 character be useful IN COMBAT in a tier 5+ game? As it stands I can only see a level 1 character being, at best, a useless set piece that sits around and collects XP in combat that makes up for their uselessness in battle with excellent RPing. More likely, however, they are going to be a liability that must constantly have resources wasted on them to stay alive in an environment that is so higher level then them. At worst, they will just be a corpse.(aka they die) So the questions becomes, have any of you ever done something like this and, if so, how did you survive a tier 5+ PF society game as a messily level 1 without being an XP-collecting waste of space set-peice/actually being useful? Or did you just not mind being useless for a game, and you're fellow players happened to be ok with the fact that you where useless, understanding you're perdiciment? Likewise, If you have general strategies both on how to be useful as a level 1 in a tier 5+ game, and more importantly how to not die in said way above your level games, I'd appreciate it!

Does anybody have advice for me on either of these concerns?

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Play a pregenerated character at the higher tiers, until there are low tier scenarios for your character to play. Talk to the organizer if there aren't any happening soon.

The only scenarios a level 1 character can play are a tier 1-5 or 1-7. If none of the scenarios are those tiers, then you can't play your level 1 anyway.

Dark Archive

Yeah, I already spoke to the organizer and I was told two different things. The first thing I was told was that I could, an the DM's discretion, be auto-leveled to the right level and that I should contact the venture captain about this. Of course, such a statement seemed....fishy....to me, and I was expecting a flat out "that guy was full of BS" from the venture captain but instead got no response period, not even one saying that such information was totally false. I asked a different person involved with the store the same questions and instead of being told I would be auto-leveled I was told that I could be allowed to play in a higher level game with a level 1 character and that with "the way XP works in PF society" I should be level 5 by the time I'm done with that game provided my character survived.

This information is what spawned this entire thread, but if you're saying this is also false then I have apparently been fed lies twice, and therefor will most likely not play at that store since they already have a bad reputation to begin with and the fact they lied to me twice only confirms this. Now, there is another store in the area that has a better reputation, but like the other all they have at the moment are tier 5+ games. So I suppose I should just start looking online?(Because I have ABSOLUTELY NO desire to play one of the pregens or iconic characters...AT ALL.)

Or is the auto-leveling thing at the Dm's discretion or being allowed to bring a level 1 to teir 5+ games not false info? (Just so you know, the most common tier around here seems to be 5-6/7(forget if it was 6 or 7)

Liberty's Edge 2/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

-Is a Venture Lieutenant-

You MUST play in your own tier scenarios as per the Organized Play Guide.

Example: Level 2 must play in a Level 1-5 or 1-7 Scenario. WITHIN the scenario you may play one tier away.

Example: Level 1 - 7 scenairo (Tiers 1-2, 3-4, 6-7). You may play up to Tier 3-4 as a level 1 or 2, but not 6-7.

If your location is not running low levels then they are shooting themselves in the foot as the vast majority of people playing are low level.

5/5 *

There hasn't been auto-leveling as you describe in PFS for years. That was false information.

What you ARE allowed to do is to play one of the Pre-generated characters that Paizo offers to its players. There is a pre-made character for every class in the Core Rulebook now at levels 1, 4 and 7 (meaning that you should be able to play at any scenario offered, and even in-tier [except for sub-tier 10-11]).

What you do is if you find that the next event is running a game for tiers 5-9 (meaning you need a character that is 5th through 9th to play), then you can snag one of the level 7 pregens from this site and show up to the game with that.

Yes, it's not YOUR character, but I'm sure you can find something mechanically close. Not only that, but at the end of the game you are allowed to take that chronicle sheet you earn with the pregen and even apply it to your existing real character either (a) when he himself gets to level 7, or (b) immediately with the gold reward reduced if he is still level 1.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Play pregens and apply the credit to a level one till you catch up

Play online to level up.

Run the high level games and apply the credit to a level 1 to level up (if you can DM)

Try to do a low level and a high level game if possible.

5/5

It seems like you are getting a lot of conflicting information from your area. You may want to review the guide to society play, so you are getting official information from the source.

In fact it possible this group is not playing Pathfinder Society, but is just playing a Pathfinder homebrew? If that's the case, the GM can really do whatever he feels like to get you into the game. Although I guess that doesn't explain why he'd send you to a VC about it...

Another option to level a PFS character for you to consider is Conventions. In a few days you can grow a level or two. Possibly more if they have modules you can play in.

Dark Archive

Online or DM seems like my only options right now sadly as I don't like RPing somebody else's character. The not wanting to play pre-gens is less about the roll playing and more about the role playing. There is probably something mechanically close to what I want among them, yes, but none of them will have the personality and/or backstory I want to role play with.(I have a very specific character(s) for PF society in mind, actually.) Role play is actually VERY important to me, and I want to roleplay a character I make rather then one somebody else designed. Do any of you happen to know a place I can play online reliably? Because unfortunately I do not...

Scarab Sages 4/5

Welcome to PFS Takhisis. Just so you know we call people who run games here GM's. You should never be playing someone else's character. The choices should be either a pregen if it is a high level scenario, or your own character if you fit within the level ranges of the scenario. If you want online play I would suggest scrolling a bit down to the online lodge section where you can find lots and lots of online games that play almost every day of the week at almost any time.

As others have said you cannot "auto level" and to hear this being told to you would steer me away from a group like that. It is obvious that they are not following the rules of PFS Organized play. I am very surprised that they have no level 1-5 scenarios available. Most Venture Officers try to have at least 1 table of low level play in there area for new players. There are some locations in areas that are designated as high level play only, but this is usually the case where you have several locations to choose from and is usually pretty rare. What area are you playing in? We might be able to get you in touch with other locations that would fit your needs.

Dark Archive

and when I said "playing somebody else's character I didn't literally mean playing somebody else's PC. I meant playing a pre-gen to me essentially IS playing somebody else' character as in addition to having per-generated stats they come with pre-made histories, personalities, alignments and even factions. I would have no issue with pre-gens if they where just a statblock with no attached personality, backstory, faction and alignment but as it stands they are not that, which is why I don't want to play them.

As for my area, I am in an odd situation, to be honest. The area I am in currently is technically not where my permanent home is, and I'll only be here for a few more months and then I'll be back at my regular home, so it's not like I'll be stuck with this situation forever, just for 2 months or so. As it stands I am currently based in the NY State capitol region. However, my permanent residence is in upstate NY/syracuse area and unlike the capitol region I was actually able to get a reply from my local society leadership there and I am almost positive that they'll have low level games there once I get back in about 2 months. So if nothing else I can just wait it out for two months and then play...

As for the online lodge, is it for members of all factions? It has grand lodge written all over it and I intend to hang my cloak with Cheliax. If being of a non-Grand Lodge faction is not a barrier to entry I would appreciate knowing.

*

Welcome Takhisis,

Online play is organized here.

Most venues have a number of options when playing. Either multiple tables at different tiers or alternating tiers by week. Many of us have characters staggered 4 levels apart or so for this reason. As has been said, any venue not catering to new players is shooting themselves in the foot. Strongly encourage them to do offer something for new players.

Most of the VO's are really good at responding, if you did not get them via email, send them a private message through the boards here. In my opinion, both your example responses deserve a VO's attention anyway.

EDIT: Grand Lodge is the in-game home of PFS. The boards mimic its name for flavor. Yes it is for all factions. :)

4/5

My first character got played up almost non-stop from 1 to 5 or so in 1-5s and then 3-7s. He wound up maximizing a save or suck DC and wearing full plate armor with a tower shield. The general solution is don't play up so much, by finding lower tiered games (online play offers repeatable scenarios quite a bit), or playing a pregen until at least level 2 (reducing rewards).

Also, as many have stated, you can not play a level 1 in the 6-7 subtier of a 1-7, or anything higher for that matter (3-7 is out, as is 5-9 and 7-11), so playing 5+ is impossible with your level 1. The guide has explicit rules for this and I suggest reading and familiarizing yourself with that so you understand it.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Fair enough about the pregen's.

The Grand Lodge for online play is by no means ever limited to your characters factions. It is more a general term for Paizo being the Grand Lodge and not what faction your character belongs too.

Grand Lodge 4/5

There should be links in the Online Play area for both the Pathfinder Society Online Collective, and the PFS area on the Fantasy Grounds 2 boards. Both of those communities, from what I have seen and heard, are fairly active, with plenty of low-level play available.

In the case of the Paizo boards, the reference to Grand Lodge predates the creation of the Grand Lodge as a faction, and instead refers to the Pathfinder Society's main lodge, the Grand Lodge in Absolom.

As mentioned, follow the PFS links here to get to the link to "purchase" the free Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (currently v5.0), and the link to the Additional Resources page for access to materials outside the Core rulebook.

For your PC, if you do get stuck at some point playing up, look at the buff spells available to you. They don't require high DCs, and can be beneficial even to higher level PCs. As an example, from a different class, the Bardic Inspire Courage, even at the basic +1, is still appreciated. And the Wizard/Sorcerer list, I am sure, includes its own batch of buffers. Heck, a trait, two-workd Magic, IIRC, allows you access to a non-Wizard cantrip/orison, which can be useful. CReate Water and Guidance are always useful, although in different circumstances.

Sczarni 4/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

If you are able to play your own PC in games with higher level characters, try focusing on a support-type character. My second ever PFS game was with a brand-new 1st level bard in a party of 4th-level players. I was able to hang around in the back of the group using Inspire Courage and taking potshots at the bad guys with a crossbow. I was able to contribute in combat (even if I wasn't going toe-to-toe with the bad guys), and everyone had a great time!

Other useful builds are things like a channeling-focused cleric (no one ever complains about a little extra healing), or a Summoner (your summoned critters will definitely not survive long, but they can probably still help with things like flanks and general distraction of the bad guys.

Also, if you play a pre-gen in a higher-level game, you have two options: one is to hold the credit until you get to the appropriate level, and then apply it. The other is to reduce the gold on the chronicle sheet and apply it to a 1st-level character. So you can play a few pregens and start out with a character who isn't *totally* new, even if he isn't as high level as everyone else.

Getting from level 2 to 3 will probably be the biggest challenge for you; there are lots of level 3-7 scenarios you can play with higher level characters once you break that threshold.

Sczarni 4/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

One other option: if there are no low-level games in your area, you could GM some yourself! GM credit can get your character out of the low subtiers, and can also provide an opportunity to help others in your area who have the same problem you do right now :-)

4/5

Welcome!

I've had some experience with level 1-2 characters playing in 4-5 scenarios. Typically, they're outshined by the higher level players in combat and are considerably vulnerable to area of effect spells; a single fireball can Full-> Dead on a failed reflex save, for example. As mentioned, where they can participate is in a support role; a "bless" spell or Bardic Performance can tip the scales of combat. Low level support can also have a lot of out of combat utility depending on your skills (being the only one with a positive Int or Charisma bonus...) If you're the only low level in a party of 4, though, Combat will probably need more active participants.

For playing and GMing Online, I would highly recommend the Pathfinder Society Online Collective. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/pathfinder-society-online-collectiv e . Depending on your availability to GM, you should be able to get your character up to the 3-5 tier in short order, especially if you run a couple of modules.

3/5

As far as playing pregens goes, I may be wrong, but I don't think you really need to stick to the character's backstory if you don't want for roleplay purposes. The mechanics are what you need to use. Also the alignment (which in Pathfinder really is a mechanical stat in some ways). Finally, any pregen (I believe) is played as Grand Lodge faction. Which really would just mean 'loyal to the society'. Not too imposing, although it would potentially negate using a faction-driven roleplaying concept. Names can be modified (along with gender.. there was a huge thread on that). I would suggest using the pregens as statblocks and modifying the roleplay aspects to suit your desires until you get a higher level character with the xp. That said, I would also recommend playing at the 'better reputation' store. The answers you got at the other one, if they were in fact PF Society rather than a home game, rather scare me.

Dark Archive

So you can actually re-name, re-gender and give entirely new backstories to pregens? Can you give me a source for this, please? As it stands, I specifically am looking to play a lawful neutral spellcaster-type from a noble family(Or at least a wealthy/powerful one such as a merchant family or being the son/daughter of a very powerful wizard with their own demiplane etc...) of some kind(My first ideal character is actually a distant thrune cousin because I enjoy the fluff of cheliax most out of all the factions.). Thats, ideally, what I want to play. If you're saying I can just use the statblocks of the pregens and change their names, genders and backstories I suppose I'd be alright with running one, PROVIDED that it can be 100% proven that I can change both their name, genders AND backstories, the latter being the ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT element that MUST be allowed to be changed. So I would very much appreciate a source for these claims, so I can defend myself against GMs who try to fight me on it/make me conform to the pregen's official backstories, names, genders etc..

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Does this work for you?

Dark Archive

Unfortunately no, because it only specifies name and gender. I specifically stated that BACKSTORY(and also personality)are more important then either name and gender as far as re-skinning is concerned for me, and since that post only calls out name and gender and not backstory and personality as well I don't have enough evidence to win a debate against a GM who would try to fight me on a backstory and personality swap for a pregen.

So, once again, is sadly seems pregens are not an option. Oh well....I guess I'll have to stick to online if I ever want to play...or wait 2+ months. As it stands all the games are filled up on the online places and I am a TERRIBLE....and I mean TERRIBLE GM so sadly I don't see using GM credit as an option until I get better....(I've only GMed once, using the beginner box, and found out I was pretty terrible.)

3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Takhisis wrote:
I don't have enough evidence to win a debate against a GM who would try to fight me on a backstory and personality swap for a pregen.

If a GM is fighting you on those issues you're going to be having a LOT more issues than that during that game. Most people don't even know the backstories of the pregens, let alone how they are played. I know for a fact that there are some areas where Ezren the wizard is played as a lecherous old man, in others he's a stuck up and snob nearing Aram Zey levels, and still in others he's the life of the party.

Dark Archive

I see. That is good to know....but in the end from both the linked thread and you're discussion here it all comes down to GM discretion, so I guess I should just get in touch with my local GMs/staff and see if they would allow me to do the backstory and personality swaps for the pregens. Online play seems like an impossibility for me at least as far as the near future is concerned, sadly, since EVERY..SINGLE...GAME...in the near future is filled past capacity and as stated in my previous post I am a horrible GM. Either way it looks like I won't be able to game for at least one whole month, as at the start of next month they may be holding a new player event locally, or so I have heard, and if they are not I just wait 2 until I go back to my actual home where the VL already knows I am interested. Waiting seems to be the only solution for me right now unless by some miracle an online game that actually fits my schedule and isn't filled past capacity shows up.

Sczarni 4/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Mark Moreland wrote:
Since neither a character's gender nor name has any mechanical effect (and I can't think of a time that "reskinning" a man into a woman or vice versa would cause any issues), there's nothing wrong in my book with making this change. If you want to play 7th-level Kyra as a male named Londar, I don't see how that has any effect on anything as long as everyone at the table knows that "Londar" is still the Kyra pregen so there's no confusion about you starting with a 7th-level PC you didn't level up to that point.

Since Mark's reasoning for allowing the change of name or gender is that there is no mechanical effect, I can't see how changing a pre-gen's backstory would be a problem. As long as you make it clear to the GM that statistically speaking, you are playing a pre-gen, this should be fine.

If you wanted to, say, change the character's traits to reflect your new backstory, that would be a problem. And it would not be okay to, say, swap out Kyra's worship of Sarenrae for another deity. But as long as the character's stats don't change, I can't see any reason why a GM would take issue with it.

Dark Archive

I would not be changing anything mechanically and deity choice for a cleric effects their mechanics due to both the aura and weapon proficiency class features, so it's not something I would try and get changed. Alignment in general has a mechanical aspect, so most likely I'd make the backstory/fluff first and pick the pregen with the statblock that matches up to it best. Still, though, such a fluff swap seems like it's a GM discretion kind of thing, so I'd at the least have to ask first, most likely?

As for online play, I'd certainly be willing to try my hand at GMing, but as a person who's only done it once in their life and not very well, I am afraid that there are there some kind of -punishments- built into PF Society's GM credit system if I flubbed up certain things accidentally? I tend to -miss- certain things in the rules at times due to having a dumped wisdom score IRL(Honestly, it would be about 7-8 if I where an actual stated out PC)so the biggest part of me being "bad' DM the one time I did try it was me missing certain things accidentally/unknowingly, such as opportunities to get out of a fight via diplomacy ect...(The other part was the fact I was a bit TOO generous with loot/items, though the fact PF society's scenarios are pregenerated and come with set loot would mitigate this some.)

2/5

Takhisis like mentioned above you can change anything about a pregen that doesn't change it mechanically. I.E. backstory gender, appearance, and all that jazz.
Also if none of the games here suit you try roll20. The account is free and there is tons of society games and others on that website starting all the time. It is easy to search for a game you would want to play that is going to be run.
Lastly don't knock gming it is extremly fun and most people will be patient with you if you are new at it.

Just my advice

Dark Archive

I'm not knocking GMing. I would like to do it if I could, I just lack confidence in myself. A long time ago during my 3.5e days I wanted to GM more then I wanted to be a player. My -ultimate- goal was, and still kinda is, to run a group in a homebrew setting of mine that features all kinds of custom rules, such as magi-tech, new classes and races, etc...However, the one time I tried GMing it didn't turn out so well. I missed some MAJOR things(such as that the players could have talked their way out of a fight.) and had to reference rulebooks and the SRD constantly, which ruined the flow and pace of the game. Even further, I was a bit TOO generous with items/loot. Needless to say, this scared me out of GMing and I decided that I needed more experience as a player before I ever tried my hand at GMing again. I would be willing to try GMing again someday, but I would need a VERY, VERY, VERY patient playergroup and an industrial-size syringe of confidence to be injected into me before the game started. As it stands, due to my IRL wisdom score of 7-8 I'd STILL be at risk of flubbing something up rules-wise without constant referencing of books and the SRD, and I already mentioned what effect that had on a game...

Silver Crusade 5/5

i think i replied to your other thread about GMing in a PFS game but I am again totally shocked that your local store does not offer low level games....they are strongly discouraging new membership....also the stuff they have been telling you are lies.

Sczarni 4/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Takhisis wrote:
Needless to say, this scared me out of GMing and I decided that I needed more experience as a player before I ever tried my hand at GMing again.

Everyone sucks the first few times they GM. Thinking back now on some of the games I ran back in high school, my GMing was atrocious! But the only way to learn is through experience, so I'd encourage you to give it another shot sometime.

Remember that it's only a game, after all -- if people have fun, then you've succeeded. One of the mistakes new GMs often make is to be afraid they're getting things wrong. My advice on that subject is that if there's ever a question you don't know the answer to (and you can't look up within a few seconds), then just make an on-the-fly ruling and make a note to yourself to look it up later.

Grand Lodge 4/5

For the online games: Do NOT give up hope, because, even if a game is filled to or past capacity, things change.

People find that they cannot make it, so alts get seats.
The original GM notes how many people are signed up and how many alts there are, and puts up a post looking for another GM to help out.

In point of fact, Steve (Cronge) has a low tier game, Accursed Halls, setup for this Saturday AM, but had 12 players signed up on his WarHorn site. He put up a request for another GM, and someone (me, actually) stepped up to run a second table.

Last I looked, we were up to 13 people signed up, but there will probably be seats available for some of the alts.

Game time: 0900 PDT, Saturday 3/15/2014

Note: Accursed Halls is noted as being a bit... (okay, a lot) dangerous for new 1st level PCs, especially if the whole party is composed only of new 1st level PCs.

I saw some second level PCs signed up, so that should not be quite as much of a problem.

Note 2: There is probably an announcement of the game here on the Online Play forum with a link to Steve's warhorn for signups. Get your name on the list.

Note 3: Accursed Halls is a module, so it is worth 3 XP, or a whole level, if your PC survives it.

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