What makes Golarion better?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


Than the forgotten Realms?
I ask because I've played in the realms most of my games,some Greyhawk,some Dragonlance but mostly FR.
I hoping you'll provide me with some good reasons to let that go and just accept the new setting,but I'm on the verge of buying the rest of the 3.5 realms books.
All IP considerations aside,which setting do you enjoy more? Why?
What's the biggest difference?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Matter of perspective on which is better.

Forgotten Realms has the drawback of so much fiction made for it since the sourcebooks - players argue that some deities in the sourcebook are no longer available as they are deceased in the written works. There seem to be fewer empires in Forgotten Realms, which can make it easier for new players to not become lost in political / historical backstories.

Golarion has the strength and weakness of having so much political variety. The main continent may as well be called "plot hook continent of 100 nations", and can overwhelm new players with geography / history / politics when all they want to do is learn the basics. It even details the habitable planets in it's solar system for over-the top games.

The way I see it - apples / oranges. It all comes down to your particular taste buds which you like more.
Personally, I like both, even if there is a notable difference.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Larkspire wrote:

Than the forgotten Realms?

I ask because I've played in the realms most of my games,some Greyhawk,some Dragonlance but mostly FR.
I hoping you'll provide me with some good reasons to let that go and just accept the new setting,but I'm on the verge of buying the rest of the 3.5 realms books.
All IP considerations aside,which setting do you enjoy more? Why?
What's the biggest difference?

Use the settings you WANT TO USE. There's no one stoping you from using Pathfinder mechanics in the Realms, there even some folks who've done conversions, Herolab files and the like. You might have to do a bit of work here and there converting stuff, but it should not be a major issue, especially if you get a hold of the 3.X FR books.

What setting is "better" is really up to personal taste.

It should not make a hill of beans what setting I prefer... I'm not running your game, you are.


What about the Inner sea guide? Is it a comprehensive setting or just one continent?
Sounds like a giant stew of warring city states.
Is Golarion in a different technological age? I've noted alot of gun use.
I already have the realms guide,and I don't run modules.Familiarity is comforting,so my tendency is not to switch.
If there's something new and fantastic about the setting that I need to know before writing it off...I need to know it lol.
Please note to any who may read this:
This is not troll bait for a setting war or anything,I'm about to purchase some books and need to determine the best ones to get.
If there are any die-hard fanboys out there...I'm here to be swayed.
"Shiny&New Vs Tried&True"


@LazarX-I'm ignorant of the setting...that's why I ask.If I had already pirated it or borrowed someones book I'd be familiar enough to make the comparison myself.
If you don't care why bother sharing.


Not better, just different.

'Better' is subjective; what you prefer determines which settings are 'better' for you.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Larkspire wrote:

@LazarX-I'm ignorant of the setting...that's why I ask.If I had already pirated it or borrowed someones book I'd be familiar enough to make the comparison myself.

If you don't care why bother sharing.

It's a setting. With stuff in it.

People who like or hate settings generally do so for subjective reasons that are personal rather than quantifiable. Forgotten Realms has legions of fans, and hordes of people who hate it with passion.

There's no way for anyone of us to know sings to you in a setting. What you need to do is establish your wants and requirements. If you have a ton of FR books and you don't want to write them off, just use them.

Golarion isn't the setting that people use because they hate the Realms, they use it because it's the setting that Paizo supports and is the default assumption for the Pathfinder game. That said, like FR, it has it's fans and it's own legion of people who hate it.


I've found that I like the Nations better, as well as liking most of the deities a bit more. I haven't played much Forgotten Realms, and Greyhawk I only played in by virtue of it being the default setting for 3e, and the everything we interacted with in it was homebrew.

Tastes vary, but I'll say this much, Golarion is the only setting that made me want to use it, and not simply homebrew a setting. I happen to like the kitchen sink nature of it, since it gives the players the ability to fit their background in with the world a lot better. Moreover as a DM, it gives me a lot to work with, in terms of NPCs and enemies and such. Between nationalities, or just themes.

Honestly, though, I have to echo the previous posters in saying play what you want. If you want 'realism' or an internally consistent world, Golarion might not be for you, since, for all I like about it, the kitchen sink nature of it means some aspects do stretch the boundaries of believablity, but if your group is ok with suspending disbelief where necessary, the world does great at being able to tell the story you want, without needing to make huge changes. Usually, when I change things, it's because I'll do some more research and find something in the world that works even better for what I want.


Larkspire wrote:

@LazarX-I'm ignorant of the setting...that's why I ask.If I had already pirated it or borrowed someones book I'd be familiar enough to make the comparison myself.

If you don't care why bother sharing.

You might try the Pathfinder Wiki it should give you a good idea on what Golarion is like.

Liberty's Edge

The Inner Sea region is a bit of a Europe/North Africa analogue of Golarion. The Inner Sea world guide is an overview of each country, the deities worshiped, the ethnic groups (it has a humanocentric feel), and life in the region. It is more than enough to get a campaign going and is practically jammed with plot hooks ready to explore. I do recommend stopping in at the pathfinder wiki site that cmh linked, it should give you a good idea.


Personally I just sort of create a generic setting by taking a hatchet to thinks I like from FR and Golarion (and greyhawk and eberron and a few others).

My biggest problem with Forgotten Realms though (disclaimer: I really like Forgotten realms) is that the setting is in many ways really claustrophobic in certain regions.

Areas like Neverwinter, Icewind Dale, Waterdeep, Luskan (etc.) are so stuffed full of various bits of fiction and fluff that it becomes really hard to simultaneously preserve the setting and create your own adventure in it. It's possible ,but it always brings up weird questions like "Why isn't <insert important Forgotten Realms protagonist> here?".

And then on the other hand there's huge sections of the map that basically have a name and nothing else. I really wish they'd go flesh out some of the secondary and tertiary areas in that setting.

Golarion is definitely cool though and I feel like it doesn't suffer from as many of the problems because it's not trying to simultaneously be a setting for novels/video games and a setting for RPGs to the same extent FR is trying to straddle that line.

Plus Katapesh is cool.


I prefer small-scale games with limited scope (especially of NPCs). To me, the Forgotten Realms was always a little bit too "Big Picture". There were extremely powerful NPCs around, active gods and several world-spanning ventures with agents everywhere. In contrast, I find it very easy to limit such things in Golarion (there's still more of it than I like, but I find it easier to adjust the scope of influence of the Red Mantis assassins than I did the Harpers or Zhentarim.

In a related way, I think Golarion is more a number of fairly autonomous regions - if you like guns there are places where they're all over the place. If you dont like them at all, you can run a campaign where you'd expect to never see them.

Based on your posts (I know - stupid to draw a conclusion from half a dozen sentences, but still I'll give it a go...) I think you should stick with the Forgotten Realms. It sounds to me like you're looking for a "schtick" (like Eberron's magic=technology feel) that Golarion has that the forgotten realms doesnt and I dont think there is one (other than maybe "a place for everything").

Also, as you observe, comfort is valuable (especially if you homebrew your adventures). Why not keep playing in the Forgotten Realms until that comfort turns to boredom - then switch to Golarion?


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Thank you,I really appreciate the responses of those people that just took the post at face value and just told me their opinion.
To others this seems like a 'hot button' issue that just causes snark.
I will know not to bother asking anyones opinion in the future.
Thanks.


IMRHIIDSSMSO, Golarion is actually more like Greyhawk than FR. I don't know if you're familiar with that setting, but it really was kind of a fantasy kitchen sink, and it also had the benefit of being beset by evil forces at practically every turn, much like Golarion.

Like seriously, read some old Greyhawk lore and compare it to modern Golarion stuff. The forces of good are NOT winning...

Apologies in advance for 2:30 am / tired and confused posting.


They have a very different feel. FR has a medieval vibe, while Golarion is more C18th or C19th.

Golarion does an excellent job with lots of different cultures and creating proper homelands and environments for particular monsters. Golarion's Mwangi Expanse, for example, is far superior to FR's Chult.

Things like demons, devils and angels are also much better integrated into the setting. FR had the problem that they were all ripped out after they were banned at the start of 2e, and other edition changes required lots of artificial and heavy-handed in-game explanations (like the horrible Time of Troubles thing).

One problem with FR was the glut of not so good novels. Unfortunately novelists took over the setting and added a lot of ill-fitting things on a whim and destroyed or resolved all the most interesting adventure locations and hooks, so for RPG adventuring there didn't seem much to do.

I do still like FR though and prefer a lot of things about it over Golarion. Golarion can seem a bit like a theme-park sometimes since the nations are all very self-contained and the whole doesn't always meld together very well.


Biggest difference in Forgotten Realms vs. Golarion has to be the crunch work that you would need to spend to truly get a full conversion without half-assing it.

I mean breaking down all of the deities portfolios and making sure they all grant access to the correct domains, then going through and figuring out which subdomains the deities do and do not have access too. That's one big point for Golarion right there.

Next, there are so many Prestige Classes that are Golarion specific, Hellknights, Red Mantis Assasin, and so many feats and traits that are tied to specific Golarion regions and events that you would have to either nix them entirely (which your players may hate you for) or do some changes to the Forgotten Realms setting itself to incorporate these things into your game which may ruin the setting for you or your players.

There are also a lot of differences in the way magic works in Golarion vs Forgotten Realms with the weave and whatnot, and I have players constantly fighting me because "in Forgotten Realms it works like this" or "I think Forgotten Realms is better because they let you do this." I might be jaded on the issue, but I am really sick of hearing about Forgotten Realms, it's like the Sopranos, find another show man.

Not that Golarion is perfect, but there are plenty of options available that don't require you to adhere to some dictum of sanctity that you or your players may feel you can't mess with because of how attached they are to the setting. At least, that's my experience on playing in old settings.


I mostly know FR before 4e messed it up for me and now it's a setting I'm not as familliar as I used to be.

Golarion doesn't have as many High-Powered good NPC ready to swoop in and fix problems. The deities aren't as involved so it centers the plot on the PCs.

The desert areas are better in Golarion IMO, with many different countries spread over northern Garund it makes for a lot of variety.

Forgotten Realms does global world spanning stories better, trade and political tensions too. As was said previously, a lot of the countries in Golarion don't spill over the borders and since countries tend to be focused on a theme, it might make some transitions a bit weird.

In the end th GM amounts for a lot of the setting so there is no better one excepts the one that spawns more ideas for you and your players.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:

I prefer small-scale games with limited scope (especially of NPCs). To me, the Forgotten Realms was always a little bit too "Big Picture". There were extremely powerful NPCs around, active gods and several world-spanning ventures with agents everywhere. In contrast, I find it very easy to limit such things in Golarion (there's still more of it than I like, but I find it easier to adjust the scope of influence of the Red Mantis assassins than I did the Harpers or Zhentarim.

In a related way, I think Golarion is more a number of fairly autonomous regions - if you like guns there are places where they're all over the place. If you dont like them at all, you can run a campaign where you'd expect to never see them.

I concur with Steve and will add a few other points. Golarion is more focused on the adventures to be had in particular areas. The world seems more created to facilitate awesome adventures then the other way around. Also, the feel of Golarion is much darker and more pulp - closer to the roots of DnD for me.

Is one better than the other, I don't think so, just a matter of "feel."


Gunslingers


Gunslingers are only significant in Alkenstar. If you never go there, they never need appear. At all. After all, Golarion existed long before the class was published.

There are no gunslingers IMC, not because I hate them with any particular vehemence but because there just aren't any near the PCs. Same thing with Linnorms or Oni.


Golarion is a familiar place with familiar nations (one nation seems like France during the revolution and one seems like Egypt before it crumbled.)
If you look at that link above, you will see a lot of places are very much like Middle Age Earth.

I have both the Forgotten Realms books and the Inner Sea Guide. To me Forgotten Realms is more of a Fantasy realm than Golarion. But as has been said before, to each his own.

Some like a familiar world. I have read a lot of the Forgotten Realms books and so I am more familiar with that setting if I were to run a game.


Larkspire wrote:

Than the forgotten Realms?

I ask because I've played in the realms most of my games,some Greyhawk,some Dragonlance but mostly FR.
I hoping you'll provide me with some good reasons to let that go and just accept the new setting,but I'm on the verge of buying the rest of the 3.5 realms books.
All IP considerations aside,which setting do you enjoy more? Why?
What's the biggest difference?

1 a matter of taste

2 I enjoy Golarion more as a setting. More of the individual countries and overall feel of the setting appeal to me personally and it is a little easier to digest and keep the distinctions between areas in mind.

Specificially vikings, devil worshipping stable empire, pulpy feel, Baba Yaga and witches, demon invasion land with paladin crusade fighting it, and well developed fiendish and celestial hierarchies and patrons.

3 Probably the pulp feel, a bit more Conan in aspects than Tolkien.


What I find better is that Glorian is new and different. I started with Greyhawk in the 80s, FR in the 90s to now. We still play in it from time to time.

The other thing is there is material for Golorian coming out all the time. I mean sure I could run an AP in FR with little work but it's easier to use Glorian.

Silver Crusade

The inclusiveness of cultures(and not making them an afterthought) and all sorts of people is a big part of its pull for me.

Also, the Shoanti. And Shelyn/Zon-Kuthon.

And strix. And Verces. And the Vercite castes. And Vercite Augmentation. And Vercite aetherships.

And Proteans. And Psychopmops. And the new take on Kytons.

And the benign alien bug goddess. And Nagajor.

Stopping now because this post can quickly turn into a timesink...


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Mikaze wrote:

The inclusiveness of cultures(and not making them an afterthought) and all sorts of people is a big part of its pull for me.

Also, the Shoanti. And Shelyn/Zon-Kuthon.

And strix. And Verces. And the Vercite castes. And Vercite Augmentation. And Vercite aetherships.

And Proteans. And Psychopmops. And the new take on Kytons.

And the benign alien bug goddess. And Nagajor.

Stopping now because this post can quickly turn into a timesink...

To elaborate, since this whole post is pretty opaque to a total newcomer...

Shoanti are a tribal human ethnicity. They have kind of a fantasy native American feel.

Shelyn is the goddess of beauty and art. Zon-Kuthon is the god of pain and darkness (think Hellraiser). They're siblings! Zon-Kuthon used to be a good deity, until he found the Lament Configuration went somewhere beyond the planes, and came back... different. Now he's the LE god of torture-cultists, and Shelyn still holds out hope that her brother's in there somewhere.

Strix are winged humanoids, kind of like China Mieville's garuda.

Verces is another planet in Golarion's star system. Because there's a book for that. I have it on my desk right now. Anyway, Verces is science fantasy. They explicitly have spaceships and cyberware and are fighting a space war with the lich planet. There's a brilliant thread all about Verces and what Mikaze all the creative folks on this board can imagine about it. Here, if you want to check it out.

Proteans are Pathfinder's CN exemplar race. They're the replacement for slaad, since slaad are not OGL and also kind of badly written.

Psychopomps are the outsider race that serves Pharasma, goddess of judging the dead. They serve the cosmological niche expected by the name psychopomp.

Kytons are now a fully-fledged (i.e. multiple CR range, up to CR 20, just like demons and devils) outsider race. They serve the aforementioned Zon-Kuthon and are effectively Pathfinder cenobytes.

I think the benign alien bug goddess is Desna. Desna is the CG goddess of stars, travellers, and dreams. She appears as a pretty elf lady with butterfly friends... now. She's one of the old gods. She comes from space. She's a big space butterfly, except something more beautiful and terrible than any earth butterfly.

Nagajor is a country over on Tian Xia, aka the fantasy Asia continent. It's a big jungle/marsh ruled by naga. Tian Xia's snake people (nagaji - humanoid reptilian PC race) come from there.

Also, to add something of my own, Lirgen had a damn space program. Then a big hurricane showed up and wrecked the country when a god died. I'm simplifying, because it's hard for me to form coherent thought around the idea that there was a functioning space program on Golarion.

Although, really, that's not as bad as the time an ancient empire tried to terraform the moon and ended up opening a rift to the Abyss.

Anyway, as you can see, there's a lot of rather brilliant material written for Golarion and some of us will talk forever about it. The only defence is to act like you're very interested and quickly escape when we need to refill our tea.


Mikaze wrote:


And the benign alien bug goddess.

As opposed to the not so benign bug goddess of the alien elves.


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Jonathon Vining wrote:
I think the benign alien bug goddess is Desna. Desna is the CG goddess of stars, travellers, and dreams. She appears as a pretty elf lady with butterfly friends... now. She's one of the old gods. She comes from space. She's a big space butterfly, except something more beautiful and terrible than any earth butterfly.

Hadn't thought of this before, but is Desna basically Mothra?


One thing makes Golarion better than Toril in my mind:

Spoiler:
Cayden Cailean. Guy got drunk and either one of two things happened. Either a drinking buddy dared him to take the Starstone Test to become a god, which is about the most deadly thing a person could do and only two others before him had done so, but he was full of liquid courage and did it. The other, and funnier, reason why he did it was he ran into Calistria, Goddess of Lust, and wanted to have her. She said a simple mortal could never comprehend her lovemaking, so he took that as a challenge (once again, full of liquid courage). Either way, he boozed up, went in and three days (and a bad, blackout hangover later, he emerged a deity.

All you really need to know, imo.

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