Clarification of Mythic Surge


Rules Questions

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Recently in the game I am running, the question of how Mythic Surge is used came up.

During the fight with the BBEG, one of my players rolled an 18 on the die to hit the Villain with the weapon he was wielding. He then informed me that he wanted to use one of his Mythic surge's to add to the dice. I told him go ahead, and when he rolled a 4 he then informed me since he was able to modify it to a "20" that it was then a threat of a critical hit. That is where all the questioning started.

His claim is that by using surge it adds to the dice "modifying" the roll. He interprets that as it changes the actual roll of the dice, and there for if he can get to at least a 20 then it should be a threat of a critical hit.

I completely disagree with that. It is suppose to add to the final value, but not modify the actual dice roll to make it a natural 20. I read it aloud to him, and read the definition aloud to him and he still stands by his belief. I would like to get a ruling one way or another. I told him that I was going with my interpretation of it for the time being and I would look into it and come up with a final ruling before the next game, but I am not finding anything on the boards or FAQ to give me a definite answer.

What is everyone else's take on this?

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I can't give you an official ruling, but I agree with you. If the Mythic Surge were to change a roll of, say, 16, into a "natural" 20 half the time, there's be a run on vorpal swords, I tell you.

More particularly, the language about Mythic Surge would have to spell out that extraordinary ability to change the "natural" roll of the d20. It doesn't. It's a 1d6 Mythic bonus to the results of the roll, but, at least at my table, it doesn't change the roll itself.


I say no it just adds to the value much like bab, stats, and magic do. Threats are always straight die roll. Now a reroll or roll replacements could do that.


Mythic Surge increases the result of your roll. It doesn't do anything to the die roll itself.


You are definitively correct, and no further clarification is needed.

EDIT: Like Chris said, it doesn't change the natural roll. Otherwise Linda would have gotten a "natural" 20 yesterday and auto-succeeded her saving throw with her 1 use PFS mythic boon.


Hm after pondering a bit I think I found away to make it function like how that player wants but it requires other magic to pull it off. Still I stand by my previous post and your ruling.

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Thank you for the responses, it helps.


Tell him that the modified roll now is 22 so is not a critical (since you need 20). That should work.


Not sure I agree. Enhancements from magic or the like are definitive pluses added to a roll. They themselves don't change the roll. The actual die roll stays the same. The mythic surges states "You can call upon your mythic power to overcome difficult challenges. You can expend one use of mythic power to INCREASE any d20 roll you just made by rolling 1d6 and adding it to the result. Using this ability is an immediate action taken after the result of the original roll is revealed. This can change the outcome of the roll." That last sentence is key. Enhancements have not even been added yet. It is suppose to change the outcome of the roll not whether he hit or not. What I would argue is the roll is random and he might roll a one. The surge states it is to overcome a difficult challenge and "CAN" change the outcome (meaning it can or cannot) of the roll. The extra d6 may or may not be enough to hit the critical range. I could see in some cases it would be enough to hit the range and sometime not. The d6 roll may only be enough to add to get normal hit because the character missed.


Plenty of abilities say to "roll d20 and add so-and-so to the result". None of them alter the actual die roll. Mythic surge adds a bonus, nothing more. The fact that you can use it even after knowing the result (such as whether you hit your target, or whether your skill check succeeded) is already extremely potent without adding ridiculous crit frequency to the mix.


blahpers wrote:
Plenty of abilities say to "roll d20 and add so-and-so to the result". None of them alter the actual die roll. Mythic surge adds a bonus, nothing more.

I had this come up in session last night. The party bard rolled a nat 1 on a reflex save, but his result was high enough to make the save due to bonuses. The resulting damage was going to kill him outright. I ruled that because it says "increase the ROLL by d6" not "add a mythic bonus of d6" mythic surge allowed him to alter the outcome, make his save and end up unconscious instead of dead.

Plenty of abilities say "add a X type bonus to your d20 roll", and the devs decided to word it differently, so I decided that was enough. I will likely rule that to avoid abuse I will rule that this only matters on a roll of nat 1, and cannot be used to cause crits. I know its not consistent, but I don't really mind that.

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