So in non constitutional news:
Most of the articles I read about this were generic alarmed comparisons between the Ukrainian and Russian militaries. However, a few covered other subjects:
-Russia attempting to seize Ukrainian Navy ships. Standoffs over docked vessels.
-IMF wants austerity measures for aid, because obviously the way to make friends and influence people is to go for destabilizing austerity measures at this particular moment.
-Ukrainians claim to have unmasked some 'Ukrainian' protesters in other border cities (not Crimea) as Russians bussed in across the border, based on the latter forgetting to alter their Facebook profiles.
-Interview with unnamed Russian soldier who says he will mutiny if ordered to attack the Ukrainian army bases in Crimea. Keen on opposing fascists generally, not so much on shooting specific Ukrainians.
-Other Russian soldiers toss stun grenades into a different Ukrainian base. One Ukrainian soldier injured.
-Russian Duma raising the prospect of annexing Crimea.
-generally tons of comparisons to 1938/39 Czechoslovakia.
-Poland, Latvia, and Lithuania collectively getting super jumpy.
-Russians (hawt and otherwise) getting arrested for protesting.
What's missing (and what, like Presidential letters, is fake?)?
In addition to Ukrainian military leadership not recognizing the revolutionary regime or "defecting" to Crimea,
this seems the latest update on the Ukrainian Navy's "Flagship" which apparently is not recognizing the revolutionary regime.
It was apparently on it's way back from international anti-piracy exercises in Indian Ocean, and is now docked in Greece.
(the Ukrainian Navy is headquartered out of Crimea)
Supposedly the revolutionary regime requested Turkey to not let it pass thru the Bosporus, although I haven't heard of any result of that.
...From the same site, this covers the EU's just decided reaction to the current situation.
EDIT: I should add that Germany has moved to support a fact-finding mission in agreement with Russia, regarding what is actually happening in various parts of Ukraine (i.e. responding to issues raised by Russia of violence/intimidation by extremist Maidan factions, until now ignored by NATO) and (?) addressing issues of legal legitimacy.
If somebody doesn't come up with a cute name soon, this is probably going to defer to the Red and Black Revolution,
after the colors favored by Svoboda and Right Sector and their fascist Ukraine Insurgent Army heroes.
EDIT: I wish I didn't write that now, it just seems too scary if it were true, but Spanks already quoted it.
Salon/Alternet article: "Is the US backing neo-Nazis in Ukraine" with Right Sector propaganda video for your viewing pleasure (or otherwise).
Epic quote:
Lviv has become the epicenter of neo-fascist activity in Ukraine, with elected Svoboda officials waging a campaign to rename its airport after Bandera and successfully changing the name of Peace Street to the name of the Nachtigall Battalion, an OUN-B wing that participated directly in the Holocaust. “’Peace’ is a holdover from Soviet stereotypes,” a Svoboda deputy explained.
...From the same site, this covers the EU's just decided reaction to the current situation.
If somebody doesn't come up with a cute name soon, this is probably going to defer to the Red and Black Revolution,
after the colors favored by Svoboda and Right Sector an their fascist Ukraine Insurgent Army heroes.
Cold War II....Electric Boogaloo.
I don't care what a Russian is trying to say...
Your numerous things can't defy EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS.
I don't need to read the reports as it was happening around me in that area where I just happened to be at the time...and more exactly, people I knew who were in country at that exact point in time and were involved with the events.
There's a LOT of Russian propaganda you've been posting...I don't give a dang about the BIAS'd and obvious Russian propaganda you are posting...as you will ignore those that were on the brunt of the Russian aggression.
The point is, what you are stating is different then what I experienced and saw, and what others who were actually in country at the time (and non-Russian) experienced.
OTOH, I would like to thank Quandary for posting the Russian propaganda. It's an interesting counterpoint to the US propaganda I've mostly been hearing.
More about the Ukraine than Georgia, I'm just piggybacking off your propaganda comment.
I don't have anything to counter his Ukraine stuff and much of it is similar to what I've already heard.
However, I question his sources.
The difference. With Georgia...I have first had knowledge of what went down, how it went down, and what happened.
It's like if you saw an event occur (let's say the Macy's Parade) and knew the order of the floats and everything that occurred. Then someone starts telling you it happened completely differently and they have these articles which will prove them right...
It doesn't matter what they say...you will KNOW what you saw...regardless of anything they say. However...BECAUSE you know what happened at the event...you probably would start questioning the articles and facts they were using and wonder why these articles were telling lies, or a very different parade/event then the one you saw.
That would lead you to question anything they put down, as you already know that they were so biased against what really happened they were posting things that did not occur.
I remember there was a GREAT deal of panic when the Russians came. They were neither wanted nor desired. They took advantage of the military currently being elsewhere...and even then...when the rest of the military came back it wasn't enough. Everyone was hoping the US or someone would do something...but no one ever came to help, no one ever came to the rescue. Georgia had lent it's aid and allied help to the others...but when Georgia needed help...no one came.
What could Georgia do more than what it did in that instance?
Perhaps this is something before your very eyes where it says...it's the Victors who write history.
The finns have a saying: "A russian is a russian even if you fry them in butter." They know.
What does that mean?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What does that mean?
That Paula Deen is now the Ukrainian defense minister?
FYI, the opinion of the ex-Prime Minister/founder of the current ruling party in Georgia (at bottom of article): ‘Georgia Started August War’
Nino Burjanadze, former minister in Saakashvili government claims Saakashvili planned to attack Abkhazia in 2008
“Giga Bokeria [former Secretary of Georgia's National Security Council] was yelling excitedly:
‘We have a carte blanche and we must start war in Abkhazia’,” Burjanadze recalls.She also said it was during this time Vladimir Putin and Saakashvili had a phone conversation.
“I was present during this phone conversation and it happened on my initiative,” she continued.
“Saakashvili then remembered that Putin told him if he would start a war there, Russia had peacekeeping forces and he would defeat the Georgian army, would recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia and would dissolve Georgia.”
Burjanadze says the government planned to start a war in Abkhaiza in April 2008. She told Saakashvili he couldn’t win the war.
“I was told that one Georgian soldier was equal to 50 Russian soldiers and we had the newest equipment, them – rusty weapons.”
Burjanadze claims Merabishvili, the former interior minister now on trial, wasn’t quite enthusiastic about this idea. She also claims it is her merit that this war was avoided and it is the fault of the ex-president that there was a war another place in August, 2008.
Regardless of one's understanding or opinion, isn't it strange to be unaware of a significant difference in opinion on this topic within Georgia itself?
This is an update on the British military OSCE observer who witnessed the beginning of the August 2008 war in Ossetia, who seems to still be working in Georgia as deputy head of EU Monitoring Mission.
The general point is that you shouldn't trust russians. After the wars they fought against them, and what the russians did to them, it... doesn't come as a surprise.
I read on wiki that Bush thought about military intervention in Georgia, but armed conflict with Russia was kinda out of the question....
I'm wondering, though....say we roll in to Ukraine tomorrow morning, guns blazing, does that necessarily mean D.C., New York, Chicago, Dallas, etc...get a mushroom cloud added to their skyline by 3 pm?
I mean, do they really want to end the f!!@ing world because Ukraine?
Welcome to the cold logic of Mutually Assured Destruction.
I read on wiki that Bush thought about military intervention in Georgia, but armed conflict with Russia was kinda out of the question....
I'm wondering, though....say we roll in to Ukraine tomorrow morning, guns blazing, does that necessarily mean D.C., New York, Chicago, Dallas, etc...get a mushroom cloud added to their skyline by 3 pm?
I mean, do they really want to end the f~%#ing world because Ukraine?
How about Poland?
How about Germany?How about France?
How about Spain?
How about the UK?
Iceland?
Greenland?
Canada?
How about the Sudetenland?
Do you want "Peace in our time?"
The russians do not believe you will nuke Moscow if they invade Ukraine. Hopefully correctly. But if you do not, there will be no change before and after their invasion. Thus, they can (probably correctly) assume you won't do it when they invade the next country either. Net result: They can act with impunity. Standard theory says you need to act quickly or lose options and position.
I miss the USSR, I've missed it for 20 years.
You knew where you stood with the USSR, now no one knows what will happen next.
The russians do not believe you will nuke Moscow if they invade Ukraine. Hopefully correctly. But if you do not, there will be no change before and after their invasion. Thus, they can (probably correctly) assume you won't do it when they invade the next country either. Net result: They can act with impunity. Standard theory says you need to act quickly or lose options and position.
You replace the words "russians" and "Moscow" with "Americans" and "DC" and you have the United States attitude towards invading a country circa 2001 and onward.
Turns out nuclear proliferation makes the world a more dangerous place for everyone. Who would have thought....
Of course. It is a symmetric problem. It's about spheres of influence. The US wouldn't like russian attempts at coups in, say, Mexico.
At the moment, I believe that the US should talk to all of the European Countries and find out what their intentions are with regard to Russian and Ukraine. If they are unwilling to do anything, military, economic or any beyond a "nasty note," the US should immediately begin removing all US military personnel out of Europe, and not return them. Europe can defend itself.
For as much as I support the US military, it is time for the US to get out of the world police business. Korea is a special case. The US should also remove the military based in Japan and redeploy to Guam and Hawaii.
[Laughs again]
"We" should take all those troops fresh from beating up Afghan radio announcers and CIA agents piloting wedding-blowing up drones and stop Putin to remind the world we're in the 21st century because "we" love freedom.
Man, you guys are awesome.
That's the plan. Rock and Roll!!
Well, leaving that aside for now, what should be fun to watch in the future will be the out-plutocrats replacing the in-plutocrats, implementing the IMF austerity plan, driving Ukraine to Greece-style desperation, and watching Svoboda and the boxer dude's party grow.
A couple of days old but...
Australian commie site translates a German interview with one of my Russian comrades (I think).
A couple of days old but...
Australian commie site translates a German interview with one of my Russian comrades (I think).
The translator inserted a lot of agenda in the English version; he even invents stuff. The original is much more careful in its tone.
Meanwhile, the worst that I've seen from Sexy Putin (in this conflict) is warning shots fired at unarmed troops.
Don't get me wrong, Sexy Putin out!!, but I don't see how the US is gonna win an image war.
The translator inserted a lot of agenda in the English version; he even invents stuff. The original is much more careful in its tone.A couple of days old but...
Australian commie site translates a German interview with one of my Russian comrades (I think).
The Aussies aren't comrades of mine [Ultraleft sectarian cursing], but would you care to provide any further examples?
Sloppy Bing translation in four giant blocks for later comparison.
Fascism was created after the first world war as a counter-movement to strong Communist revolutionary workers movement in large parts of Europe. Fascists had the explicit goal to crush these movements of workers and to secure the rule of capital, because the liberal State could not guarantee that. In Italy and Germany, they could seize power in other countries do not.And today...there a big labour movement, nor a fascist movement for their destruction, a Government, which is wary of the capital in the Ukraine 2014. It is about bringing the working class to power, nor about the labour movement to destroy physically.What then is it a movement?On the Maidan, people from different oppressed classes struggle: workers, unemployed, poor, self-employed, students who can find no job, and others. Their opponent is the State and the political elites. The term "fascist" is a misnomer, because the class composition of the conflicting parties is quite another.But there are fascists on the MaidanClear. The ideology of the "right sector" is clearly fascist. And they are also attempting to establish hegemony over the mass movement. But this does not succeed so far Fortunately, because the movement in the core has nothing to do with fascism.What then?I have no name for it. You from a post-Soviet society, which has been deprived of their class consciousness, and which has no tradition of protest. This movement can take very different forms and especially quickly change their character to the left like right.How is the character of the Maidan movement come about?She now has a partly anti-communist, nationalist character. For one thing, because the right groups closest to the situation were prepared. Secondly, because of the disastrous role of the Communist Party of Ukraine.She got 13 percent in the last electionsYes. And had then nothing better to do than to make regime to the important support of Yanukovich. Most Ukrainians connect "links" mainly the Communist Party.Precisely, it has approved Yanukovich anti demonstration laws in Parliament. Without those votes, they would have been rejected.How is this possible?The Communist Party is bought as Yanukovich as well by oligarchs from the Eastern Ukraine. Clearly, backing the Russian nationalism and their politicians speak openly about their good relations with Cyril I. head of the Russian Orthodox Church.What position do you have to the Maidan movement?You criticize the Ukrainian nationalism, but not from a position of internationalism out. Rather, they argue Russian chauvinistic and thus replace nationalism with another.I recommend all left-wing parties in Europe to break off contact with the Communist Party of Ukraine. Such a policy must not be tolerated.What really left Ukrainians?The left have had from the outset very different opinions of the movement. Some see them as strange, Rechtsradikales in you not should participate. Other left join and try to affect the direction of the movement.Is it hard?There are many organized right-wing radicals, who are willing to undertake something against leftists on the Maidan. Leaflets and banners were torn away left-wing activists and some were beaten.So no place for left?Yes, that is why! Of course, we must provide our physical security. But when ever that is guaranteed, we must not idly, as right-wing enforce their political hegemony.We must not leave them the movement. We must not allow that the right retain a monopoly on extra-parliamentary politics.Do you discuss with Nazis?Maybe with some. But above all, the vast majority of the demonstrators is the first politically active and now face brutal police units on the Maidan. 300,000 people took part in the biggest demonstrations in Kiev, nothing to do with right-wing extremists have the vast majority of them.Why are the ultra-nationalists in the movement so strong?Do you know when a permanently independent Ukrainian State was founded for the first time?No. Why?In 1991, with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Therefore, one can find followers so easily in the Ukraine with patriotic slogans. So think many Ukrainians as the residents of a colony, 20 years after independence: "The most important is that we are not controlled by a superpower."
But the movement is strong especially in the Western Ukraine...... because there are not only the class Division, but also an exceptionally strong geographical division of the country on economic and cultural level in the Ukraine.In the eastern half of Ukraine, have the most people as their mother tongue Russian and speak it at work or at school. Even Vitali Klitschko is a Russian native speaker. Ukrainian, he speaks with a strong accent.And in the West...... we speak mainly Ukrainian. In one of the poorest countries in Europe, significantly more people are poor and unemployed than in the Eastern industrial areas to Kharkiv and Dnjpropetrowsk in the West. Western Ukrainians migrate from the Czech Republic and Poland, because the wages are higher there than in their homeland.In addition the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Kiev Patriarchate in the West. It has split off in 1991 and their priests now speak on stage on the Maidan. Whereas in the East is the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, whose priests are typically available on the side of Yanukovich.What does this mean for the movement?In the West, 99 percent support the protests. People came by bus to Kiev, to live for weeks on the Maidan. They are afraid to be dominated by Russia and fight against Yanukovich, who again will make the Ukraine in their eyes a Russian colony.An unfounded fear?Not necessarily. The Russian State repeatedly attempting to make depends on Ukraine itself. For example, by he turns off the natural gas pipelines in the winter. Blame the Ukrainians who wants, that they have no confidence in Vladimir Putin?Is the alternative of the movement the EU?The motion is aimed mainly against Yanukovich's Government. The question of the EU is now secondary.It is the only tangible alternative to the orientation to Russia but of course continue. In addition, many people have the illusion that the prosperity, freedom and democracy of in the Ukraine, some EU States would bring a rapprochement with the EU.And who benefits from an approximation of Ukraine to the EU?Some oligarchs who control opposition parties, promise a good deal of it. But no problems of ordinary people were addressed in the negotiations: neither the fight against corruption, political or social reforms. It mainly concerned the access for the EU companies on the Ukrainian market.Could an Alliance soften not the economic crisis of Ukraine with the EU?The fate of our Eastern European neighbours, evidence to the contrary. In Romania and Bulgaria, for example, incomes are not increased, the prices yet. More young people need to emigrate, to work for the lowest wages in Western Europe and to be abused there as a wage lever for locals.The joy of the EU disappeared very quickly in these countries, because even though all EU citizens are formally equal, some are just more equal.Then why is the illusion in the EU so strong in the Ukraine?The trigger for the protests was that Yanukovych last year but not signed an agreement in November with the EU at the last moment. Until then, not only the opposition parties, but also the Government itself have run campaigns for the integration of Ukraine into the EU.A not signed agreement leads to the mass movement?Yanukovich had prepared no propaganda for its change of strategy. Literally overnight all government officials said the agreement was contrary to the national interests of their beloved homeland with the EU deeply, while they had declared 24 hours previously, only the agreement could preserve the Ukraine from extinction.A real PR disaster...... that was decisive for the spontaneous outburst of protest. Many people felt that the Ukraine Yanukovych leads towards EU and Putin suddenly pulls the credit card and he makes an offer that he can't refuse. Also, it has been something like...... and the opposition parties have used clever that...... because the oligarchs, of which they are controlled, to promise more profit thereof. However, it is crucial that the oligarchs and their political parties have difficulties to steer the movement. It has become an independent Center of political power, to that it is worthwhile for left to fight.All the Eastern Ukrainians on Yanukovich's pages?There would be a referendum on a Union of Ukraine with Russia, most, however, would vote in the East. They also have no confidence in the Russian Government. Nevertheless, Yanukovych in the East still has Rückh
Is his Government therefore stable?No. The oligarchs system itself undermines Yanukovych, is in addition to the mass movement in the West. Some "sponsors" of Yanukovich's "Party of regions" demanding his resignation now internally. Should the oligarchs publicize this position, the President would quickly lose even his remaining support in the population.According to a recent poll, Klitschko would get a majority in a runoff election to the Office of the President against Yanukovych. This means that many Russian-speaking Eastern Ukrainians would vote for Klitschko.Also the star of the movement is Klitschko?What the media are usually hiding is that the movement is basically extremely critical towards politicians and other self-proclaimed leaders. Klitschko is one of the few who barely are booed off the stage, when they speak on the Maidan. But the star doesn't make him well.Where does the criticism of the opposition politicians?Many opposition politicians, as well as the imprisoned Julia Timoschenko, have already demonstrated that they are corrupt. Klitschko still not. Still it depends same economic bosses, like other politicians.Again, you speak of the "oligarchs". What makes compared with billionaires so special, somewhere else?An "oligarch" has not only much influence on economy and society, but also direct control over one or more political parties. One oligarch can turn into direct political power so its financial capital.Which parties are controlled by oligarchs?All parties in the Parliament are largely financed by oligarchs. Only Svoboda is caused by ideologically distinct active and has used the opportunity in a favourable situation, to get money. Without oligarchs, Svoboda also would have been never so influential.What do the media?The oligarchs have all major television networks and control their contents directly. So politicians from Svoboda invited too major talk shows, as the party in elections was still 0.8 percent. At the same time, it is inconceivable that there some linker may speak.How is the conflict in the Ukraine only between different parts of the capital?The elites always try to abuse mass movements. Would we, expect mainly in Eastern Europe on a movement, is free from influences of capital and completely led by the working class, we have to wait forever. Prevent such movements, we need a different society than we have?"Another company", so that there can be movement?Exactly. Because any protest movement reflects the contradictions of society, in which she fights. Strong nationalism and extremely powerful oligarchs on the one hand, no tradition of self-organisation and class consciousness, no large trade unions on the other side. The protest will arise?There is no perspective?Yet. But first we need to discuss left: How can we act in these circumstances?Should we condemn the movement, because it's too hard to work? We go home, because protesters wave the Ukrainian national flag anywhere on the Maidan, sing the national anthem and call: "Glory of Ukraine"?What do you suggest?I'm talking nothing nice. If you say that you are Marxist, on the Maidan, it may be that you will be attacked.But are largely in the development program and character of the movement. People are changing there politically very quickly and they are very open to politics.What is that?In December, many more people had confidence in Klitschko. At that time, no one could imagine what fights they were able in January.Can left align something here?Left almost always have the option to work there. Because there are many problems to the left offer a solution can, in contrast to all the others.Where can we connect?The majority of people on the Maidan wants to organize themselves. They want direct democracy and no negotiations behind closed doors.It is these ideas for the people on the Maidan fight against the police, although one of their comrades was killed the day before. This is the place where left must attach their ideas.What can the left in Kiev improve?We must learn to respond to the situation. With the setting "I spread my slogans or none" to win a flower pot in Kiev. I think it rather irresponsible, if left deliberately not on the Maidan, what unfortunately happened.Irresponsible?
Yes. Because if we stay away, we the people leave the "right sector", which we hate it so much. No one will thank us if we go there, where the right-wing extremists are, except for the right-wing extremists themselves.Is it practically possible?Of course. It may mean that I must leave my beloved red flag at home because it is bad. So what?I want to get into political contact with people and radical is what brings success. That a red flag is unpopular is not us, it's the Communist Party. Nevertheless we must respond wisely.Can the movement also win?Depends on what winning means. The movement can achieve the downfall of Yanukovich. Sooner or later he will lose his power. But many protesters want to change society and the political system. That can not afford this movement.Is there anything free then?Not at all. Many will be disappointed, but experience also, upon which they can build. Some will realize that even a social struggle is necessary to improve their lives. If that were possible in the near future, it would be a great success.Ilya, I thank you for the conversationInterview: Anton ThunIlya Budraitskis is a member of the "Socialist Russia"movement (Rossiyskoye Socialisticheskoye Dvizheniye, RSD). The Organization, which is present in the large cities of Russia, was built at the beginning of 2011 as a result of the restructuring of the Russian left and is a fusion of different groups. You sees itself as plural, anti-capitalist, radical left-wing collection movement and occurs for a new, democratic socialism. Its activists are active in various social and democratic movements in the mass movement against Putin 2011/2012.On the МARX IS must Congress in Berlin from June 6 to 9, it is an event with Ilya Matveev, also by the Rossiyskoye Socialisticheskoye Dvizheniye, RSD type. More information & registration
The Aussies aren't comrades of mine [Ultraleft sectarian cursing], but would you care to provide any further examples?The translator inserted a lot of agenda in the English version; he even invents stuff. The original is much more careful in its tone.A couple of days old but...
Australian commie site translates a German interview with one of my Russian comrades (I think).
For example, the answer to the first question should read: "We have strong links to the left in Ukraine and I travelled to Kiev two weeks ago when the situation was coming to a head and the anti-demonstration laws were introduced, which could have made a police state possible.
A sentence from the answer the the question "What are your impressions of the movement?" was cut: "All this is being done by ordinary people, not the parties."
The answer to the question "What’s their [the Ukrainian communist's] attitude towards the Maiden movement?" should read:
"They criticise the Ukrainian nationalism but not from an internationalist perspective. Rather, the argue from a Russian chauvinistic perspective. I advise all leftist parties in Europe to break contact with the Ukrainian Communist Party. We cannot tolerate this policy."
There are a few other issues, mostly cutting parts of the answers from the German version.
So, dropping sentences is inventing stuff and inserting an agenda?
All of this has convinced me I have no knowledge of geo-politics. I am following this discourse very closely since my narrow view of the situation to date has been provided through my American TV and nothing more. Thanks to everyone posting here. I hope and pray that whatever the resolution it comes about peacefully though I have no illusions on that front.
In other news, Putin a) says no plan to annex the Crimea, and b) asserts Russian right to arbitrate validity of future Ukrainian elections and send military into the rest of the country in future.
Dear Comrade Anklebiter a few photos mean nothing if you don't precise the context.
Torture is never acceptable and not really efficient (as Gestapo learned during WWII) but all the learders of the countries you present as victims not only torture much much more than the US ever did, but even use (or used it) as a "daily basic".Are the US a perfect country? No, but they're still much better than any of the opponents they fought.
Russians should ask themselves why a significant part of Ukraine wants to be closer from the EU, the answer is just:
- a less corrupted country
- a constitution serving the people and not the leaders
- freedom of speech
- respect of individual
- a better lifePutin main concerns should be to develop Russia instead of invading his neighbor's seaport. Russia is not inventing anything nor producing anything but just selling natural ressources. Worse, among emergent countries Russia is the one with the weakest economy.
While Gulf oil producers countries invest all-around the world, Russia is depending for 70% of its revenues linked to gas and oil, doing nothing with the money. What about all that money?? It disappears in rulers pockets.Putin decided to present himself as a kind of super-heroes: the best hunter, the best fisherman, the best biker, the best martial artist, the best archeologist, the best whatever you want except the best statesman of Russia, a real problems solver.
I do understand he is afraid what happens in Ukraine might happen in Russia but we all know that hiding the problems never solve them.If we give up with Ukraine, Putin will grow overconfident and will move the next time against the Baltics or Poland which means the EU. No one wants a new Cold War, so better to stop him right now!
So, I've got images of American servicemen torturing Iraqis, bombing babies and killing civilians. What images you wanna bring to the Image Battleground, Citizen Spawn?
Russia: Out of Ukraine!
America: Bloody Hands Off the World!
Smash Russian and US Imperialism through Workers Revolution!
Vive le Galt!
So, dropping sentences is inventing stuff and inserting an agenda?
Yes, if it changes what the interviewed person said.
Also, invention is featured in my examples. The English version says that the Ukrainian Communist Party "counter-posed" (note the spelling mistake) Russian chauvinism. Which is the opposite of what you can read in the original.
Fabius's Translation: "They criticise the Ukrainian nationalism but not from an internationalist perspective. Rather, the argue from a Russian chauvinistic perspective."
Aussie Commie Translation: "They criticise the nationalism but not from an internationalist perspective. Rather, they counter-pose Russian chauvinism!"
Crappy Bing translation: "You [???] criticize the Ukrainian nationalism, but not from a position of internationalism out. Rather, they argue Russian chauvinistic and thus replace nationalism with another."
Leaving aside room for amateurish translation, anyone else think these two statements are opposing? 'Cuz I don't see it.
(EDITED)
So, I've got images of American servicemen torturing Iraqis, bombing babies and killing civilians. What images you wanna bring to the Image Battleground, Citizen Spawn?I'm sure you could drag all sorts of ugly stuff out of Chechnya and some other recent Russian conflicts. Maybe out of Georgia?
Not much yet in Crimea, but it's early days.
I'm sure you could. I'll match Russian atrocity photo with American atrocity photo and let's see who wins the Image Battleground.
Hard for me to tell whether it's just a clunky translation or what, Doodle. Counterpose seems ambiguous in that grammatical context. One interpretation makes it a bad translation, the other makes it a distortion.
I will say that I don't interpret the first two sentences as meaning the same thing at first read. But at third or fourth read I thought perhaps it is just bad English, rather than deliberate.