It might be better to give specific examples of what you're talking about. The Immediate Action abilities I can think of all pertain to quick reaction, deific intervention, or just plain precognition-via-magic.
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People make immediate actions all the time IRL. Never had to suddenly stop, dodge for cover,or do literally anything in reaction to something? Cause those are immediate actions.
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Troll thread is troll. Wow! Such Troll! Much Flame!
It seems pretty metagamey that three times a day a guy can roll sulpher in bat guano and make a huge fireball, but if he does it a fourth time it just doesn't work anymore. I mean, I can jump and gravity will return me to the ground every time.
from oracle revelations to puny things like a bards gallant inspiration.
See, this is why specific examples are good. I'm entirely with you on those two items, but not, say,'feather fall.
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The types of actions find their origins in Magic: The Gathering.
from oracle revelations to puny things like a bards gallant inspiration.
Gallant Inspiration is divination magic and could therefore be justified as magical precognition.
As you swing your blade, you receive a momentary glimpse of of what happens next and are able to act more efficiently.
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The types of actions find their origins in Magic: The Gathering.
Perhaps.
I don't have any issue with immediate powers that *counter* an effect {as long as they are priced appropriately} - it's powers that step in after the fact and say 'nahhh, let's do this' that are aggravating.
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Each character has their Deity give them inspiration.
Deity 1: "Oh no, he's about to miss his attack..."
Deity 2:"Why don't you tell him to do something else, like a jump attack instead?"
Deity 1:"OH! Good idea!"
-sends revelation-
Deity 1:"YEAH! Thats what I'm talking about, direct hit! Man, role playing as a mere mortals, using actual mortals as my miniature, can be scary sometimes!"
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Real life doesn't have a turn order.
No trolling. I just try to play high RP games that satisfy all players and currently having issues with the constant breaking of the 4th wall and making it seem 'in game' from oracle revelations to puny things like a bards gallant inspiration.
If you're having an issue where game mechanics are consistently at odds with your story, then you probably have one of two problems.
1. Pathfinder/3.X isn't the system for you. There's nothing wrong with that, if it's the case. It's a very complex, and pretty gamey system for many people. At times, it can make it very hard to write a story for, especially when you don't like to openly talk about game mechanics. I enjoy the system, and I still run into trouble with finding ways to motivate a Druid to going on adventures.
If this is the problem, consider talking to your players about some house rules to make the system more to your liking. See where your players are on the problem and if and how they would like to address it.
2. Your drew up a story, but one for a book and not a game. In my experience, the best stories told in games are ones where the story goes hand in hand with the mechanics of the game. If you're having issues where a villain/NPCs actions are completely thwarted by an immediate action, then that's more an example of a character not acting properly for the game than a failure of the game.
If this is the problem, then you may need to go back to the drawing board with your story. Maybe have a look at adventure paths and see how they tell their stories.
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It seems pretty metagamey that three times a day a guy can roll sulpher in bat guano and make a huge fireball, but if he does it a fourth time it just doesn't work anymore. I mean, I can jump and gravity will return me to the ground every time.
** spoiler omitted **
Actually when a wizard prepares a spell in the morning he's preforming 99% of a lengthily, complex ritual and leaving that last 1% left undone for when he needs the effect to occur. It's not so much that he doesn't know how to cast that spell again, it's that he isn't prepared to do so.
What about attacks of opportunity then?
Immediate actions are a fun way to stay involved while waiting for your turn. I wish there were more, as I find some characters have too much to use their swift/immediate for, while others never use that action at all.
How can immediate actions be metagamey when the entire combat system is a meta game construct that entirely breaks the 4th wall?
Keep in mind that all these 6s turns are happening in parallel, not in sequence. So while you're taking your full-attack in a given turn, at the same time the person who's turn comes after yours is already acting. In essence, you're full-attacking him while he's full-attacking you, exchanging blows; not one sitting there and waiting patiently because he has to puff on his asthma inhaler. What the Immediate action is, essentially, is a way to say that, on your already resolved turn, "Oh yeah, btw, I also did <whatever> in that 6s interval." You didn't know you did it because you didn't know what it was responding to until a subsequent turn was resolved.
That almost makes sense. After all 1 round is always 6 seconds regardless of the number of characters participating in it. Unfortunately, it also completely fails to work as a description of PF time in combat because we know that things are in sequence.
Not only is there a turn order, but if a character is killed they are removed from that turn order before the round is over. AKA: If the round order is Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, Monster 1, Monster 2, and the Rogue kills Monster 2, Monster 2 never gets a turn, and his attacks never happen. To put it another way, the Fighter wouldn't get the benefit of a haste spell the wizard cast on his action because he goes before the wizard. Clearly then, PF time in combat is in sequence.
Also because the same events can happen every round in the same order, time during combat is also cyclical. Pathfinder Time: Parallel, Linear, and Cyclical all at the same time.
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Keep in mind that all these 6s turns are happening in parallel, not in sequence. So while you're taking your full-attack in a given turn, at the same time the person who's turn comes after yours is already acting.
Nope this is not true.
When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions.
Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest.
Nothing says actions are simultaneous.
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Well, sweeping someone's punch aside when they try to jaw-jack you IRL would be an immediate action, translated into game mechanics. Calling immediate actions metagamey is pretty much the equivalent of saying that we, as human beings, can metagame real life. Seems like the proverbial bucket has a few holes in it. Fact is, even a white belt in any form of martial arts worth its salt will have instinct enough to try and avoid a hit, and if chance permits, move to drop their aggressor on the follow through.
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Keep in mind that all these 6s turns are happening in parallel, not in sequence. So while you're taking your full-attack in a given turn, at the same time the person who's turn comes after yours is already acting.Nope this is not true.
Nothing says actions are simultaneous.When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions.
Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest.
A round is six seconds. Turns don't get longer or shorter depending on the number of combatants.
Mechanically speaking, you're right. Things need a clear cut order, so you take turns.
Narratively, there has to be some simultaneity or you can't have 10 creatures all taking six seconds of action in six seconds. Just combatants with higher initiative are a fraction of a second faster, so their actions count more. And immediate actions are a way of asserting that simultaneity for things that just don't work otherwise. Feather fall would be pretty crappy if you couldn't use it in response to being shoved off a cliff.
Is this weird sometimes? Damn right. Just like hit points are. But a 'realistic' simultaneous game would be difficult to play. It's a game first.
I don't know about the specifics that are bothering you. I do know, that when I'm driving, if something suddenly appears in the road, I don't decide to do an emergency stop, I find I have done one without thinking about it at all. And that's a good thing. Some things are reflex.