I have all ready posted this once, but things have changed and so i need your help once more.
I seek knowledge, the knowledge to support my party tho this dangerous adventure.
I am playing a cleric of Desna with a 20 point buy. My problem is that while her domains are some of the best, her weapon sucks.
I was hoping to take guided hand then mythic guided hand so i could be a full wis based class and kick ass but that does not seam like the best way to go, so any help would be very welcome.
I have all ready posted this once, but things have changed and so i need your help once more.
I seek knowledge, the knowledge to support my party tho this dangerous adventure.
I am playing a cleric of Desna with a 20 point buy. My problem is that while her domains are some of the best, her weapon sucks.
I was hoping to take guided hand then mythic guided hand so i could be a full wis based class and kick ass but that does not seam like the best way to go, so any help would be very welcome.
Since the domains are good but the weapon is not, don't rely on the starknife, but on the domains.
Also, just because you're proficient in the starknife doesn't mean you can't charge into combat with a longspear or use a crossbow (or sling if you're strong enough) instead.
How do you usually like to make your clerics? Desna makes for good support clerics, caster clerics, or even bad touch clerics. What do you want your cleric to do?
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I guess the first question would be what kind of cleric do you want to be? Healer? Blaster? Melee? Something else?
If you're going for melee, remember also that you don't have to use the diety's favored weapon. Guided Hand only works on the diety's favored weapon and the starknife is a pretty weak weapon IMO to use on a regular basis.
Allow me to clear a few things up.
Its a party of 3 Me, a bard taking the arcane duelist, and a paladin.
I am looking to fill the gaps and make sure we survive.
With no other primary spell caster i need to be proficient in spell casting. Summon monster being a strong thing for the cleric to specialize in but i may have to wade into combat especially in the early game.
Just looking for general thoughts and suggestions.
That's perfect, actually. With an arcane duelist and a paladin, you don't need to be a melee guy. In fact, I recommend that you aren't. So the starknife isn't important to you at all.
Go big into spellcasting. Pump up your Wis, let your Str suffer. Keep Int high enough to have Know (Arcane), Know (Religion), and Spellcraft. Your spells should be buffers and debuffers.
So, what domains are you looking to take?
ETA: The one thing to note is that you won't be the guy who is killing enemies. If you're okay with this, that's great, because what you're actually doing is turning the other PCs into Cuisinarts of Doom, and they'll love you for it. But if you're the sort who feels useful only when you're dropping foes, you might end up feeling unsatisfied.
Travel and Luck.
They are the best with great spells and powers.
Not so much stuck but the fluff is great and my DM and i are big fans of the Wheel of Time books so we are doing somthing with dreamwalking so ye Desna is the way too go.
I did look at Serena because of her kick ass weapon and mythic and normal guided hand would be great but i like Desna more :)
Okay, yeah, you'll be popular. Standing right behind the two other PCs and using Bit of Luck, and your extra speed to get into position, along with a good slate of mobility and buffer spells makes you an awesome support character. Spells to start would be Bless and battlefield control like Obscuring Mist.
Scribe Scroll is a good feat for you, so that you've got lots of spells of the right kind at the right time.
Ability wise, think Wis>Con>Dex>Int>Cha>Str.
Also, go to the Guide To The Class Guides (first sticky post in the Advice forum) and look for Tark's Big Holy Book for Clerics. Read up on the Support Cleric and the Caster Cleric. You might also like the Archer Cleric.
I was thinking human for the extra feat, as for a build its cool i like playing with builds myself.
As for the guides i have read those things so many times it makes my head spin haha.
I just have to be careful so I make a good cleric that works well with a mythic class.
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OK. It's also hard to plan too far ahead because you don't know when you will get another mythic tier. I am playing a blaster cleric in our WoR campaign and have some of my feats and stuff planned out but it seems to change over time. I tried getting a little ahead by going through the mythic paths and feats and such and finding the ones that I'd most likely get so when it's time to pick one I just choose from that select list.
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Consider taking the feat Alignment Channel (Evil). Channel offensively against evil outsiders. Phylactery of Positive Channeling will increase both harm (Evil Outsider) and heal channeling. I heard WotR might have some of those. You need neither Selective Channeling nor a high DC for that to work, so it won't suck up all your build resources.
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I've played through a lot of the Wrath of Righteous as a wizard but I tend to stick with spell casters. Allow me to give you a build I would recommend.
Human 20 point Buy
Str: 10 Dex: 13 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 18 Cha: 10
(Level up Dex at 4 and then Pump Wisdom as high as you can make it.)
Traits: Magical Lineage- Spiritual Weapon
Touched By Divinity
Domains: Travel and Luck
Deity: Desna
Mythic Path- Hierophant
Feats:
H-Improved Initiative
1- Spell focus- Conjuration
3- Toppling Spell
5- Augmented summoning
6- Sacred Summons (you will get a free feat here at ascension)
7- Superior Summons
9- Spell pen
11-Divine Interference
13-Quicken Spell
15-Greater spell Penetration
17-
19-
Skills:
Know Religion
Know Planes
Spellcraft
Sense Motive
Path Abilities:
1- Mighty Summons (one of the strongest in the book)
2- Faith's reach (Includes your Spell like abilities like Bit of Luck)
3- Legendary Item
4- Divine Source
5- Legendary Item x2 (Minor Artifact)
6- Undying Healer or Abundant Healing (Your Choice)
7- Legendary Item x3 (Major Artifact)
8- Divine Source
9- Enhanced Ability- Wisdom
10-Divine Source
Mythic Feats:
1- Mythic Spell Lore
3- Mythic Improved Initiative
5- Mythic Spell Penetration
7- Mythic Augmented Summoning
9- Mythic Spell Lore
OK I'm sure you looked at this and said why divine source. One the Flavor of it is cool but on top of the coolness factor you will be taking the Domains Good, Trickery, and Magic with their sub domains. This will allow you access to cast Resurrection, miracle, and Time stop as spell like abilities without material components. That's pretty nice if only a domain gave you wish. Artifice gives you limited wish however without material components you can then cast any 6th or lower arcane or druid spell.
The legendary item is just so strong compared to other Hierophant abilities. But if your focused on casting you can't go wrong with a nice item with spell casting from another spell list.
Good Mythic Spells to Pick from and will serve you well throughout the Campaign.
1st Level- Bless, Protection from Evil,
2nd Level- Spiritual Weapon, Silence
3rd Level- Dispel Magic, Prayer, Blindness/Deafness
4th Level- Blessing of Fervor, Order's Wrath, Magic Weapon Greater
5th Level- Not much here
6th Level- Blade Barrier,
7th Level- Holy Word
8th level- Dimensional Lock
9th Level- Time stop A.K.A win every fight coupled with Mythic Improved Initiative. Congratulations you can win ANY fight by yourself...the fact your Party gets in on this action is just Pure GRAVY. (You can now prepare it due to Divine Source)
Protection from Evil- this should be consent on every character buy the end of the first book and to the End of the Campaign. Protection from mental control and possession is going to be key to surviving this campaign.
Spiritual Weapon- If you go toppling spell you will be abusing this and its mythic version as well as the other Force spells on your list. I like Divine Trident+ toppling Forceful strike for Attacking Touch AC, Bull rushing, and Tripping. It also does a decent bit of Lightning + Force damage.
Silence- Want to shut down enemy casters....put this on an arrow or a rock and put it in their area or chest. You can also cheese your summon monster with a silence....A dire lion that silences everything around it makes it even harder for a caster to get away.
Dimensional Anchor and Lock- Demons and magic users teleport and this stops that stupidness.
Resist Energy- Do I need to cover its usefulness?
Dispel Magic- Strips down the Defense of things that know your coming and buff themselves up; as well as dispel magic acts as a counter spell in a pinch.
Break Enchantment- Fixes people who have been dominated and made into a demon's mental play toy.
Dispel Evil- Fixes Problems and Gives defenses as well.
Heal- Fixes problems
Wall of stone and Blade Barrier- Your 2 wall spells only 2 your lacking is wall of force and Prismatic Wall. But your still able to divide a battlefield.
Stone Shape- This spell has more uses then I can count or name. Learn to use this spell and use it creatively.
SO those are my thoughts and Help towards building a good caster cleric for Wrath of the Righteous. I've played it and Know this build will actually work in combat situation and will allow you to control a battlefield as well as buff your party quiet well.
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They are lacking because they are low power but higher utility. No need for eldritch breach when you have Mythic Spell Penetration. in the build I suggested and Summoning+buffs typically don't need to roll for Breaching.
The things I suggest go with a theme of do a few thing very very well. I don't spread out my focus so I stay effective. Kinda like a 3 trick pony. A 1 trick pony gets shut down hard but a 3 step pony has enough ideas to overcome you with one of the 3.
My 3 pony trick for this build is Summoning, Legendary Item, and Divine source for free Resurrection and Miracles as well as adding Mythic Time stops to your spells known and prepared.
I will be honest those abilities you mentioned are all strong but are kinda so-so in comparison to Legendary Item.
Sure if you want to have a lot of nifty abilities that can be of some use you can go that route. I'm just offering what I know works for Wrath of the Righteous to make an extremely effective Caster cleric. The build I offer will allow for Powerful and quick summon creatures, Battle field control, and slight buffs. Healing will be plentiful with all the potions you find, Channel energy, Lay on hands, and the occasional Heal spell. But I'm offering more then just some do nothing Cleric. I'm offering the 3rd member of a 3 man party that has Melee covered and a Bard for Bardic performance. The bard looses his Bardic Know but he will make it so you don't have to prepare a lot of buff spells. This all coupled with Inspire spell to have unlimited utility of the entire Cleric list on demand.
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If you read divine Vessel the last sentence says:
At 6th tier and 9th tier, you can select this
ability again, adding one domain and two subdomains (see
the Advanced Player’s Guide) to your list each time and adding
their spells to the list of those that you can cast.
Learning the mythic version of spells via Mythic spell Lore:
To select a mythic spell, you
must be able to cast the non-mythic version or have it on
your list of spells known. Every time you gain a new tier,
you can select an additional mythic spell.
Divine Vessel puts time stop, mirror image, confusion, invisibility, on your list with the trickery Domain. With Magic you get the spells Mage's disjuction, Arcane Eye. Some solid spells and It is all legit adding to your spells able to be prepared each day.
You don't NEED divine source just to cast miracle but divine source makes it s Spell like ability so you don't need material components...the 25,000 gp Material component goes away. It makes it a daily answer to just about anything that you never have to worry about 25,000 material components.
Mighty Summons only uses MP if you use it to summon only 1 creature with a special template. Other then that it adds another +1 and gives them all DR/5....with the feat Augmented summoning they are now mythic with DR/epic.
Basically this allows you to summon 1d3+2 creatures of lower level or 1 Mythic DR/Epic Celestial with savage or agile Template.
The creatures also last long enough to take a few shots from a creature. If it gets targeted and dies it did its job. It also brings all the creatures spells and abilities. Say you summon a Creature with spell casting and the fight ends before he is killed you can use the last few rounds to buff your party with the Creature's spells saving you from having to take those spells.
Endured Blessing allows only 1 spell to be active for 24 hours per person and only works on spells with a 10/level or longer duration. You can take it again for the minute duration buffs but even still your only allowed 1 spell in that way on you per day. Id rather have spell like abilities that allow me to cast costly spells for free and increase my daily amount of spells Known and Castible. As well as new spells to my list that I can cast from the arcane list.
You as a player might favor Endured blessing and the Likes. They will work and be good choices. I'm just offering a Cleric that goes beyond the party Arm that passes around buffs before hand and then struggles to find his role in meaningful combat.
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Having played through the Wrath of the righteous using summoning I can say it stays just as effective in Mythic as it does in non mythic.
First
Emphasis mine. You do not add the domains and subdomains to your spell list when taking Divine Source, because the ability isn't talking about your spell list
This is wrong. The spells the domains you select are added to your spells known and allow you to prepare them as normal spells. The ability also allows you to select 1 spell per Level to cast as a spell like ability on top of your normal spell casting.
You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause, allowing them to select you as their deity for the purposes of determining their spells and domains.Select two domains upon taking this ability. These domains must be alignment domains matching your alignment if possible, unless your alignment is neutral.
You grant access to these domains as if you were a deity. Creatures that gain spells from you don't receive any spells per day of levels higher than your tier; they lose those spell slots.
In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier.
Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains).
If you're a cleric or you venerate a deity, you may change your spell domains to those you grant others.
At 6th tier and 9th tier, you can select this ability again, adding one domain and two subdomains to your list each time and adding their spells to the list of those that you can cast.
I'm familiar with the emphasis mine stuff but the Changing of the domain spells like you state here:
They aren't actually spells unless you swap out your cleric domains for the domains you're picking up with Divine Source.
I believe your wrong here as you have to keep the 2 domains you start with but Divine source offers only spell like abilities to you and the ability to add those spells from the chosen domains to your spell list. They do not replace your original 2 domains you gained becoming the cleric.
Second
Yet you used an entire round to get it/them there (which, to me, means that you needed to already have it there before the issue came up) when you could have used that for something much faster
Sacred summons is a standard action and so is the toppling spells + spiritual weapon for levels you can't use sacred summons.
As I said, I would be interested to see in-play how summoning holds up against the other options it has to compete with in Mythic
It will hold up well as I played a summon specialist when I played through and had no issue dropping down armies of smiting creatures on top of the heads of evil doers. The SLA's are just cake and the extra bodies will help his 3 man party have some extra health to go around.
Third
I'm not going against Endured blessing but I am focusing on raw power and utility over being a buffer for the entire party. Not to mention he has a bard and a paladin in the group who can handle some of the buffing responsibility of the party. Taking that pressure off the Cleric allows him to open up other ways to do combat. I feel Battlefield control, Summons, and a clerics defensive spells will fit better then focusing down on being the best party buffer the world has ever known.
This is just a Build option I am suggesting to the OP who asked for some guidance without spoilers being given....Please instead of debating my build suggest something yourself and let the OP decide what he likes best and what direction he wants to go and not the direction you want to go with a build he might or might not use.
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What I originally gave as suggestions to a build, you'll note.
No if I scroll up I see my suggested build then I see your first post on the thread doing nothing but arguing with my build that was my suggestion. Since then you have done nothing but argue over points of my build instead of just posting your own and being done with it.
Dear Funnyman50,
You can find my Suggestion on my first post I made in the thread. Your welcome to take any ideas from it as you wish. I was not looking to be critiqued but just to offer suggestions from someone who has beaten the AP. I have given you a build that can work well but doesn't mean its the only path. There are a lot of abilities just pick ones that seem good to you. But as for me I'm done with this thread cause I'm tired of certain insufferable person. Best wishes on your campaign and I hope all works out for you.