Looking over the Holy Gun archetype of the Paladin from Ultimate Combat, it gets Smiting Shot at 2nd level, which requires 1 Grit Point to use. The thing is, as far as I can tell Holy Guns only get access to Grit Points at 11th Level, barring multiclassing into the Gunslinger.
Am I missing something here?
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Holy Guns get the Amateur Gunslinger feat at 1st level, which gives them grit.
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The Amateur Gunslinger feat gives you grit.
Benefit: You gain a small amount of grit and the ability to perform a single 1st-level deed from the gunslinger deed class feature. At the start of the day, you gain 1 grit point, though throughout the day you can gain grit points up to a maximum of your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You can regain grit using the rules for the gunslinger's grit class feature (see page 9). You can spend this grit to perform the 1st-level deed you chose upon taking this feat, and any other deed you have gained through feats or magic items.
Ah, right.
Phew. And I need to check all the feats involved next time, huh.
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(Personal Opinion)
"How does the Holy Gun work, anyway?"
Not very well*. Usually if I'm going to play a Roland of Gilead-esque church gunslinger, I just go cross-class into Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger archetype) from Paladin or Cleric.
One of my gaming group and I created a Gunsmoke domain for Clerics; if this is for a game where the GM will allow custom content you might take a look.
*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).
[QUOTE="Xaratherus"
*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).
On the upside, you're attacking its touch AC, and doing it from a safe(r) distance.
On the upside, you're attacking its touch AC, and doing it from a safe(r) distance.
*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).
True but - in that instance I sort of find it more worthwhile to just take the a dip into Gunslinger and keep the standard Paladin progression. Then you get some additional grit, some extra deeds, everything you need to wield the gun, and you still get to target touch AC with your Smite against the target for the whole round.
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Really, using Holy Gun's Smiting Shot requires a bit of a paradigm shift from playing a normal paladin. Where normally the paladin saves her smites and uses them on big tough individual foes, Smiting Shot looks like it's meant to be used on waves of mooks. Every time you drop a foe you get your grit point back, so the idea is to use it over and over again.
It's less about full attacking the BBEG and more about dropping his minions round after round. If you find that uninteresting, then the archetype is probably not for you.
True but - in that instance I sort of find it more worthwhile to just take the a dip into Gunslinger and keep the standard Paladin progression. Then you get some additional grit, some extra deeds, everything you need to wield the gun, and you still get to target touch AC with your Smite against the target for the whole round.On the upside, you're attacking its touch AC, and doing it from a safe(r) distance.
*To clarify: The biggest problem I have with Holy Gun is the fact that you lose Smite Evil in exchange for a deed that grants you the benefit of Smite Evil with your gun - for one grit point, for one shot only. This is compared to the standard ability which is limited in uses per day but at least lasts the entire combat (or until the smited creature is dead).
Additionally, you don't even need to have a high dex stat, since you'll be hitting touch AC plus possible smite evil effects, and therefore be pretty much as effective as a non-gunslinger paladin in melee and other tasks.
Really, using Holy Gun's Smiting Shot requires a bit of a paradigm shift from playing a normal paladin. Where normally the paladin saves her smites and uses them on big tough individual foes, Smiting Shot looks like it's meant to be used on waves of mooks. Every time you drop a foe you get your grit point back, so the idea is to use it over and over again.
It's less about full attacking the BBEG and more about dropping his minions round after round. If you find that uninteresting, then the archetype is probably not for you.
If it worked for eg a full round per grit point spent, then it would be worthwhile. As it is, it's going to be a bit hit-or-miss (pun intended) whether it is cost-effective to use a grit on any given enemy. Low level enemies don't get you your grit back, but one shot isn't likely to drop a slightly better enemy, as you increase in levels. And it's not very satisfying to have your main 'special' be weak against the main baddies.
Well, as you increase in levels you do get more Grit points.
Question: Can you use the smiting gun on a scatter gun ? Ôo
It seems to be yes... Huuuuuu!
How does the Holy Gun work, anyway?Very poorly.
Yeah, verily yeah. Under most normal circumstances, you are far better off taking one or more levels of Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger than Holy Gun. Even the default Gunslinger with no Archetypes can be superior.
If it works with a scatter gun, that might be the only thing I see making Holy Gun superior to simply going straight Paladin and then dipping into Gunslinger. Since your Smite is no longer target-bound as a Holy Gun, but instead is tied to your weapon, then Smite with a scatter gun would be very potent in certain situations.
"THIS ... is my SMITESTICK."
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1 Mysterious stranger, 2 Divine Hunter (not the hunter archetype, the paladin one) is probably better than 3 Holy gun, unless advanced firearms are a thing and you can smite with a double shotty. In that case, I think it's still worse, but the AoE damage potential is very appealing.
What are the advantages of this particular MCA over the base gunslinger 1/paladin 2?
1. Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger)
2. - 3. Paladin (Holy Gun)
4. - X. Vigilante (Gunmaster)
That's the least crappy way I could see the Holy Gun Paladin archetype working. Charisma-based Grit, Divine Grace, AND you're NOT a Gunslinger or a Paladin, which is a bonus in my opinion. But your mileage may vary.
PS. Divine Deeds can only be used by the Holy Gun, therefore he could not share Smiting Shot via Aura of Justice... Even though I'm pretty sure Holy Grit is SUPPOSED TO replace Aura of Justice, anyways.
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Holy Gun works best when combined with the following:
Bolt Ace Gunslinger, Far Strike Qinggong Monk, Sniper Underground Chemist Rogue. At 5th level you now have all the feats you need to hit things at range with half penalties, sneak attack against touch at one range increment, and otherwise wreak havoc with thrown or ranged weapons. Take the Accomplished Sneak Attacker and you are only 1d6 behind a straight Rogue (2d6).
Your saves will be (way) better, but your BAB will be worse (of course).
I'd suggest dipping 2 into Shadowdancer or Ninja to get HIPS/Vanishing trick and/or evasion after that. But that is up to you. Nothing like being invisible when you want to be / while you reload and before each attack for sneak attacking.
That's my 2 cents, as long as you aren't taking a class that is PFS legal, you might as well mix it up some. You can then decide what to work up from there.