What kind of penalty would you have for throwing out your back?


Advice


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My players are going to be fighting a 7th level old monk soon and they are only about 3rd level.

I want the monk to throw out his back after the first round.
I was thinking -2 Str and Dex, Loses evasion and Staggered for 1 round.

Being a strapping young lad, I have never experienced this so I am looking for input.


I'd try to stay within the current rules for balance/reasonable expectations. I imagine its painful thus:

SYMBOL OF PAIN
School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
Components V, S, M (mercury and phosphorus, plus powdered diamond and opal worth a total of 1,000 gp)
This spell functions like symbol of death, except that each creature within the radius of a symbol of pain instead suffers wracking pains that impose a –4 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks. These effects last for 1 hour after the creature moves farther than 60 feet from the symbol.

Unlike symbol of death, symbol of pain has no hit point limit; once triggered, a symbol of pain simply remains active for 10 minutes per caster level.

Note: Magic traps such as symbol of pain are hard to detect and disable. While any character can use Perception to find a symbol, only a character with the trapfinding class feature can use Disable Device to disarm it. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 30 for symbol of pain.

Change the DC to disarm to a DC for the heal check to fix it!


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As someone who suffers from a bad back, I can attest that the Symbol of Pain is a good starting point for the effect.


Which is on par with the -2 Str and Dex part. Being flat-footed and staggered for one round is reasonable for a sudden injury. (I've had to watch this happen IRL multiple times.)


I'd do it kind of like fatigue. Give a -2 to all physical rolls and 1/2 speed. If you try to exert yourself in anyway that would aggravate it you go to -4 and 1/4 movement.

And lol, isn't it a little anti-climactic to have the party face off against a BBEG and he goes "aaahh m'back! time-out! Gotta get some motrin and see when Murder She Wrote is on!".


What about making him older?. Adult= normal stats, middle aged = -1 to all phys, +1 to all mental, old= additional -2, +2, etc... (I think this is covered in the additional rules section).

If he has a back that's worse than his his average guy in the age group, then adjust slightly.


I don't know if it covers everything, but staggered or exhausted would fit the bill reasonably too.

Sovereign Court

Bad back here as well, as stated Symbol of Pain would be perfect for the penalties and you are using existing game rules.


Snow_Tiger wrote:

What about making him older?. Adult= normal stats, middle aged = -1 to all phys, +1 to all mental, old= additional -2, +2, etc... (I think this is covered in the additional rules section).

If he has a back that's worse than his his average guy in the age group, then adjust slightly.

He is old already. BUT...i KINDA want him to have a BADASS entry, that just falls apart.

"Stand down, old man."
"Who you calling old." *Flexes Bicep*
"Oh crap."
*throws out back*
"Oh crap."

Grand Lodge

Why not just steal from Council of Thieves?

Pathfinder Adventure Path #26: The Sixfold Trial (Council of Thieves 2 of 6) wrote:

Hunchback (Ex)

Your hunched and twisted back forces you to walk with a clumsy, shuffling gait. This reduces your land speed by 10 feet and imparts a –2 penalty on Reflex saves and Initiative checks.


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Yeah, symbol of pain all the way. Wrenching your back is generally just this side of crippling as far as mobility goes...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd just use the Fatigued condition: -2 Attack, AC and can't run or charge.

Liberty's Edge

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Really depends on what exactly you mean by throwing out his back.

As someone with a damaged back, I can tell you that when it is really bad, I can barely stand, let alone walk or actually do anything even remotely strenuous like,say, breathing deeply or turning my head.

The effect can very widely depending on how serious you plan on his bad back being. A pinched nerve can be painful to debilitating, a slipped or herniated disc can be paralyzing. All depends.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rapthorn2ndform wrote:
Snow_Tiger wrote:

What about making him older?. Adult= normal stats, middle aged = -1 to all phys, +1 to all mental, old= additional -2, +2, etc... (I think this is covered in the additional rules section).

If he has a back that's worse than his his average guy in the age group, then adjust slightly.

He is old already. BUT...i KINDA want him to have a BADASS entry, that just falls apart.

"Stand down, old man."
"Who you calling old." *Flexes Bicep*
"Oh crap."
*throws out back*
"Oh crap."

I take it you're going for comedy then?


LazarX wrote:
Rapthorn2ndform wrote:
Snow_Tiger wrote:

What about making him older?. Adult= normal stats, middle aged = -1 to all phys, +1 to all mental, old= additional -2, +2, etc... (I think this is covered in the additional rules section).

If he has a back that's worse than his his average guy in the age group, then adjust slightly.

He is old already. BUT...i KINDA want him to have a BADASS entry, that just falls apart.

"Stand down, old man."
"Who you calling old." *Flexes Bicep*
"Oh crap."
*throws out back*
"Oh crap."

I take it you're going for comedy then?

With this fight, yes. We've just had some pretty severe drama and just restarted w/ lv 1s not long ago. I' kinda wanna keep it light for a few sessions.

Silver Crusade

Depending on the severity of your back pain.....-10 on all your ability scores.....yeah it can be that bad.

Maybe the "nausiated" condition. back pain can get in the way of everything. Sometimes you just want to be shot to be put out of your misery.

Good luck


ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Depending on the severity of your back pain.....-10 on all your ability scores.....yeah it can be that bad.

Maybe the "nausiated" condition. back pain can get in the way of everything. Sometimes you just want to be shot to be put out of your misery.

Good luck

Absolutely Agree.

Nauseated, Slowed, -4 to INT, WIS, CON, -8 CHA, -10 STR, DEX. Prone condition. Helpless condition.

These are all particularly true of someone who spent their lives fit and virile, because they won't be accustomed to the severity of the pain. Just like when superman loses his powers he is a total puss.

Shadow Lodge

I second treating it as permanent fatigue until healed. Debilitating but not impossible to deal with. Scale up as desired.


I've thrown my back out a couple of times (and by the way, you don't need to be old to do this -- the first time I really threw out my back I was only about 22).

You hobble a bit. Have a hard time standing up straight and getting up. Besides any penalties you might get for the pain, or whatever other conditions you might impose, you ought to consider that the character's speed is affected somehow.

I know I wasn't up for running or quick movement in general.


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Reading these responses makes me feel like the paizo community consists of crotchety old men with walkers going on about 'When I was your age...'

...oh, wait. ;P

Lantern Lodge

As symbol of pain. Probably at least a -2 penalty to dexterity or AC. Also a reduced movement speed.


Lipto the Shiv wrote:

Reading these responses makes me feel like the paizo community consists of crotchety old men with walkers going on about 'When I was your age...'

...oh, wait. ;P

Great point. Throwing out your back also gives you the crotchety old man condition.


BigDTBone wrote:
Lipto the Shiv wrote:

Reading these responses makes me feel like the paizo community consists of crotchety old men with walkers going on about 'When I was your age...'

...oh, wait. ;P

Great point. Throwing out your back also gives you the crotchety old man condition.

Crotchety Old Man always seemed OP to me. +10 movement speed when going uphill both ways in the snow, and getting the intimidate bonus to clear people off your lawn is a bit much.


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aboniks wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Lipto the Shiv wrote:

Reading these responses makes me feel like the paizo community consists of crotchety old men with walkers going on about 'When I was your age...'

...oh, wait. ;P

Great point. Throwing out your back also gives you the crotchety old man condition.
Crotchety Old Man always seemed OP to me. +10 movement speed when going uphill both ways in the snow, and getting the intimidate bonus to clear people off your lawn is a bit much.

Nah, that's why you can only gain access to that condition late in the game.


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Seems legit.

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