How about "Blood of Dragons"?


Pathfinder Player Companion

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You had Blood of Fiends to expand the tieflings, Blood of Angels to expand the aasimars, Blood of the Night to expand the dhampirs and vampires and even Blood of the Moon to expand the lycanthropes AND add a new descendant race, the skinwalker. So... how about a booklet that expand and add a new race related to dragons?

Why would it be a good idea?
1) In Pathfinder, templates are now not meant, and made, to be used by PCs. I'm to believe that the aasimar, tiefling, dhampir and skinwalker were expanded upon to compensate the inability for players to be a half-celestial, half-fiend, vampire and lycanthrope, respectively. Wouldn't you know it? These 4 races petty much give everything a PC would need to become a fully fledged templated creature as well.

2) The half-dragon template is, of course, no exception to this omition. MANY folks at Paizo said it countless times that they literally got fed up with the overpopularity of the half-dragon template. However, it remains the only returning Template that didn't get a related PC race.

3) WotC introduced the Dragonborn and Spellscale back in 3.5, both which were dragon-related races WITHOUT being simple templated creatures. The Dragonborn even became a primary race for the 4th edition, maybe because the race was such a sucess that they decided to amp it up.

4) Many players would love to "play as a dragon without breaking the game". Sure, you can have a Dragon Disciple, but good luck convincing players who hate the sorcerer class.

5) I believe Paizo wouldn't do any harm to WotC and D&D by creating a dragon PC race. For instance, you can easily relate the Ifrit, Oread, Slyph and Undine to Forgotten Realms' Genasis and the changelings to the same setting's hagspawn, without causing issues with Eberron's own doppelganger-related changelings, just like the Inner Sea's androids aren't conflicting with the same setting's warforged.

Is it a mandatory thing for Paizo to make?
Of course not. This isn't a demand or request, but simply a suggestion. I stated above why it would be a good idea, but I'm in no position to order Paizo around when they surely have better and more important products to work on. Such a booklet would be awesome, but it is no need a necessity. Draconic-blooded sorcerers and blood ragers, dragon disciples, kobolds and wyvarans can satisfy a player's taste for dragons in the meantime, and that's without counting what 3rd parties might have published on the subject.

What could such a booklet contain?
In short, pretty much what the other booklets of the same series contained.

1) History, society and class ideas for playing as such races

2) Expanding the kobolds and wyvarans. As they are related to each other, one can go with the other.

3) Introducing a new dragon PC race, similar to the Dragonborn, just like they added the skinwalker.

4) Giving players options for their races, such as chromatic, metallic, primal, imperial and outer draconic ancestry, like they did with the aasimar, tiefling and skinwalker, as well as adding rules for being a descendant or hybrid of a wyvern, drake and other lesser dragons.

5) Giving players options for their classes, such as new domains for Apsu and Dahak, introducing Tiamat as a deity, new weapons and feats, new curses and mysteries (I could see curses related to anger and greed), and archetypes for classes such as the sorcerer, the oracle, the barbarian, the alchemist and many others.

What would such a booklet cause?
Possibly the same kind of popularity that the half-dragon once had, but to a much lesser and more controlled degree. Furthermore, as I explained above, such a booklet would remedy to the lack of the half-dragon template being available for the PCs.

That wraps it up. What are your thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

I'd buy it.


+1


I would also buy it.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Nagaji would be the natural starting point for this race. If Paizo can expand them the way they expanded aasimar and tieflings in their books, I would be very happy.


I'd love to see a 'Blood of Dragons' book.

While D&D may have been a little too dragon obsessed, I feel that Pathfinder has kind of gone too far in the opposate direction by barely mentioning the species at all outside of bestaries.


David knott 242 wrote:
Nagaji would be the natural starting point for this race. If Paizo can expand them the way they expanded aasimar and tieflings in their books, I would be very happy.

Well... nagajis are more related to nagas than dragons, so...


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I'd buy that for a dollar.

Grand Lodge

Cool idea!

Also I think Gorynychs deserve some space, too!


I approve of this idea, and would add the Lizardfolk (maybe Nagaji and Vishkanya as well) to that book.


I would definitely buy that. Lizardfolk could use some love too.

Dark Archive

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Rather than a dragonborn race, I'd like to see some sort of dragonblood template that could be strapped onto a kobold or lizardfolk or wyvaran chassis, to make for some new options for those races.

That said, there's a part of me that regards the plethora of aasimar, tiefling and dhampir 'sub-races' as being ten thousand times worse than the half-dozen elf variants back in Greyhawk and the Realms.

When the answer to 'what's the best race for X' is always 'some flavor of Aasimar,' it's kind of silly, and having ten (colors + metals), fifteen (add primals) or even twenty (add oriental dragons, or even linnorms) different flavors of 'dragon-peeps' is just going to take us further into those woods.

Still, that barn door is already open.


I'd LOVE a 'Blood of Dragons'!


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I think a Dragon-blooded themed product would be nice, but the idea of a new Human-Dragon PC Race is NOT needed, or desirable IMHO.
I don't even think Kobolds and Wyvarans should be included in the same book, they can have their own.
There is plenty of room to explore Draconic Sorcerors, new Bloodlines (+Oracle Mysteries?), including variants on Draconic Bloodrager,
new Sorceror/Bard/Oracle/Cleric Archetypes...
(Sorceror possibly requiring Draconic Bloodline but it'd be cool if it was broader, e.g. Arcane also makes sense),
more Draconic Deities/ in more depth on their followers/etc, and Feats/Spells/Items/Traits/PrCs...
maybe even Alt Racial Features/PrCs for real Dragons themselves.

Along with more setting context: hopefully specific to broader regions (e.g. Avistan, Garund, Casmaron, Tian Xia)
It would also make sense to give at least a tease of the culture of Xa Hoi, a predominantly Human nation ruled by Dragons and where Draconic is the national language.
By the same token, that other planet (?) with Dragon riders, etc, would make sense to include, although that may be a fit large of scope.

An entirely separate product could be dedicated to Nagas, Nagaji, Lizardfolk, Serpentfolk, and Vishkanya,
(although Lizardfolk, Serpentfolk, and Vishkanya may not all be sufficiently related...?)
and similarly explore their Deities, Sorceror Bloodlines (Naga? Specific Naga Types?), some Archetypes and maybe PrC, etc.
The Nagaji language is weirdly defined:
[ooc\"The hissing Nagaji language is spoken almost exclusively by the inhabitants of Nagajor, specifically the Nagaji. The Nagaji tongue has been heavily influenced by the Naga over the centuries"[/ooc]
Yet there is no "Naga" language ever listed... It would make the most sense to say that Nagaji is also the language of Naga (also being inhabitants of Nagajor), i.e. they share the same language (not reflected in Bestiary entry for Nagas, but that was before Tian Xia and Nagajor was written up, thus GOLARION Nagas may speak Nagaji as their native language).

Dark Archive

Quandary wrote:

There is plenty of room to explore Draconic Sorcerors, new Bloodlines (+Oracle Mysteries?), including variants on Draconic Bloodrager,

new Sorceror/Bard/Oracle/Cleric Archetypes...
(Sorceror possibly requiring Draconic Bloodline but it'd be cool if it was broader, e.g. Arcane also makes sense),
more Draconic Deities/ in more depth on their followers/etc, and Feats/Spells/Items/Traits/PrCs...
maybe even Alt Racial Features/PrCs for real Dragons themselves.

Some good thoughts here. I could see a Sorcerer with draconic 'blood' or empowerment ending up with an appropriate Elemental Bloodline as well, or even something like Fey (for someone deriving power from contact with faerie dragons) or Arcane or Destined or even Undead (for someone who was tainted by some fleeting contact with a Ravener).

Not everyone who had contact with a dragon, or is even descended from one, somehow, will necessarily have the Draconic Sorcerer Bloodline (particularly if they aren't Sorcerers at all, but went in the direction of becoming an Oracle or Bard, or even a prepared caster, like a Wizard or Witch, or noncaster, like a Monk, Rogue or Fighter).

A 'Dragon Disciple' like PrC (or Archetype, or whatever) for a non-caster, developing draconic features or traits, could be pretty cool.


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That would be an instant buy for me. The whole lack of templates (and especially half-dragons) made me abandon D&D 4E, and a few days ago I looked at Darken by Kate Ashwin again and really started missing the good old dragon/humanoid hybrids. The advanced race guide wasn't much help unfortunately.


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I'd certainly be up for this! Would love a dragon-blooded PC race.
Granted the point made about all the different types of dragons giving variant abilities (and we know that's just likely to grow with future bestiaries) is quite valid, I would be cool with just having variants for the different dragon base groups (chromatic, metallic, Imperial, Primal, and Outer).


Quandary wrote:
I think a Dragon-blooded themed product would be nice, but the idea of a new Human-Dragon PC Race is NOT needed, or desirable IMHO.

Care to elaborate why?

If it works for 4e with the Dragonborn, why wouldn't it for Pathfinder?

Quandary wrote:
I don't even think Kobolds and Wyvarans should be included in the same book, they can have their own.

Fair enough.

Scarab Sages

JiCi wrote:

If it works for 4e with the Dragonborn, why wouldn't it for Pathfinder?

I feel, in this case, comfortable assuming I am not alone in thinking, "that's not the best argument."

I, for one, do not object in any monolithic manner to some kind of "draconoid" PC race, but it would have to be done right, and that wouldn't be easy.
The Dragonborn race first came out late in 3.5, but I never cared for them - Races of the Dragon (the 3.5 book that introduced them) also offered a race called "Spellscales," which I liked more, and to be fair, the two as a package (Dragonborn being the "might" to the Spellscales' "magic") worked better all the way around.


I would be interested in such a book, Creating a good and interesting Humanoid Dragon race isn't easy and would probably need to distance itself from those Dragonborn for copyright purposes. I would go with how Blood of the Moon went and set it up so the color of your draconic thing would change your appearance and abilities. A red Dragomanoid would be better suited for a sorcerer and a blue Dragomanoid better at melee.


Well, of course, I'd like the race to be balanced, not broken and such. As for the Dragonborn... well... kinda hard to not copy it when it has pretty much every element needed to be a humanoid dragon:
- the look
- the stats
- the breath weapon

I honestly would like a race that is a descendant of a human and a half-dragon, making it a quarter-dragon... but just make sure I can access to each and every racial feature of the half-dragon template via feats, since that's how they likely do it. For instance, I can get wings as an aasimar.

Look, it's possible. Here's a crack at it, by yours truly.

Dark Archive

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Races of the Dragon (the 3.5 book that introduced them) also offered a race called "Spellscales," which I liked more, and to be fair, the two as a package (Dragonborn being the "might" to the Spellscales' "magic") worked better all the way around.

Some time ago, I whipped up a Golarion-specific 'Spellscale' after someone asked about the idea, borrowing as much from the Mojh in Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed as the Spellscale itself.

Shadow Lodge

I'd be down but I feel like I would really want like 2 options, one that is really human with some draconic like traits (like directly descended from half dragons and becoming more humanoid) and one that is really dragon like like a lizardfolk that can breath fire or kobold that are like a humanoid race crafted by dragons and therefore having a more draconic vibe.


doc the grey wrote:
I'd be down but I feel like I would really want like 2 options, one that is really human with some draconic like traits (like directly descended from half dragons and becoming more humanoid) and one that is really dragon like like a lizardfolk that can breath fire or kobold that are like a humanoid race crafted by dragons and therefore having a more draconic vibe.

This is what I kept having as a thought. There are actually 2 aspect of a dragon: the brute strength and the spellcasting.

Wouldn't you know it... this is what the dragonborn and spellscale were created for.

Can one race accommodate both aspects at once? I... honestly don't know...

Shadow Lodge

JiCi wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
I'd be down but I feel like I would really want like 2 options, one that is really human with some draconic like traits (like directly descended from half dragons and becoming more humanoid) and one that is really dragon like like a lizardfolk that can breath fire or kobold that are like a humanoid race crafted by dragons and therefore having a more draconic vibe.

This is what I kept having as a thought. There are actually 2 aspect of a dragon: the brute strength and the spellcasting.

Wouldn't you know it... this is what the dragonborn and spellscale were created for.

Can one race accommodate both aspects at once? I... honestly don't know...

I don't know if I want to split it by casting vs. force though. I mean I can see a humanoid dragon person who is as much a barbarian as a sorcerer.


doc the grey wrote:
JiCi wrote:
doc the grey wrote:
I'd be down but I feel like I would really want like 2 options, one that is really human with some draconic like traits (like directly descended from half dragons and becoming more humanoid) and one that is really dragon like like a lizardfolk that can breath fire or kobold that are like a humanoid race crafted by dragons and therefore having a more draconic vibe.

This is what I kept having as a thought. There are actually 2 aspect of a dragon: the brute strength and the spellcasting.

Wouldn't you know it... this is what the dragonborn and spellscale were created for.

Can one race accommodate both aspects at once? I... honestly don't know...

I don't know if I want to split it by casting vs. force though. I mean I can see a humanoid dragon person who is as much a barbarian as a sorcerer.

I'm not saying that it's not possible, it's just that it wasn't done before... that is, until 4e picked the Dragonborn as a standard race for both roles.

As for the look, well, if we can have catfolks with either human faces or feline heads, pretty sure we could get a "dragonfolk" with either a more human-like look with scale or, to put it simply, a bipedal true dragon the size of a human.

Scarab Sages

JiCi wrote:


This is what I kept having as a thought. There are actually 2 aspect of a dragon: the brute strength and the spellcasting.

Wouldn't you know it... this is what the dragonborn and spellscale were created for.

That's what I was alluding to - I was even thinking (though it'd be more of a stretch) that you could create two MORE such races to stretch that out to to the remaining 2 of the primordial "4 cardinal directions" of fantasy RPGS:

Rogue aspect - Dragons are guardians and/or plunderers of riches, however that term may be defined.

Priest aspect - Dragons are superior beings that inspire awe, terror, and/or the desire for personal achievement/betterment.

ALSO:

*slaps forehead* Why didn't I think of this before??? Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed setting introduced the Mojh race - and having searched for it, I've even discovered they later came up with a Dracha race to, again, be the "might" to the Mojh's "magic." THESE (appropriately adjusted/adopted/augmented/adulterated for Pathfinder) are "draconic PC races" I can get behind!


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
JiCi wrote:

This is what I kept having as a thought. There are actually 2 aspect of a dragon: the brute strength and the spellcasting.

Wouldn't you know it... this is what the dragonborn and spellscale were created for.

That's what I was alluding to - I was even thinking (though it'd be more of a stretch) that you could create two MORE such races to stretch that out to to the remaining 2 of the primordial "4 cardinal directions" of fantasy RPGS:

Rogue aspect - Dragons are guardians and/or plunderers of riches, however that term may be defined.

Priest aspect - Dragons are superior beings that inspire awe, terror, and/or the desire for personal achievement/betterment.

ALSO:

*slaps forehead* Why didn't I think of this before??? Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed setting introduced the Mojh race - and having searched for it, I've even discovered they later came up with a Dracha race to, again, be the "might" to the Mojh's "magic." THESE (appropriately adjusted/adopted/augmented/adulterated for Pathfinder) are "draconic PC races" I can get behind!

So, you're saying that a dragon-like humanoid PC race could get more than 1 subspecies, in addition of multiple heritages?

Well, if they could have done it with the skinwalker, can't see why they wouldn't be able to do so for dragons... unless page count is concerned.

Scarab Sages

JiCi wrote:


So, you're saying that a dragon-like humanoid PC race could get more than 1 subspecies, in addition of multiple heritages?

Well, if they could have done it with the skinwalker, can't see why they wouldn't be able to do so for dragons... unless page count is concerned.

No, not what I was thinking - still, that could work.


JiCi wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
JiCi wrote:

This is what I kept having as a thought. There are actually 2 aspect of a dragon: the brute strength and the spellcasting.

Wouldn't you know it... this is what the dragonborn and spellscale were created for.

That's what I was alluding to - I was even thinking (though it'd be more of a stretch) that you could create two MORE such races to stretch that out to to the remaining 2 of the primordial "4 cardinal directions" of fantasy RPGS:

Rogue aspect - Dragons are guardians and/or plunderers of riches, however that term may be defined.

Priest aspect - Dragons are superior beings that inspire awe, terror, and/or the desire for personal achievement/betterment.

ALSO:

*slaps forehead* Why didn't I think of this before??? Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed setting introduced the Mojh race - and having searched for it, I've even discovered they later came up with a Dracha race to, again, be the "might" to the Mojh's "magic." THESE (appropriately adjusted/adopted/augmented/adulterated for Pathfinder) are "draconic PC races" I can get behind!

So, you're saying that a dragon-like humanoid PC race could get more than 1 subspecies, in addition of multiple heritages?

Well, if they could have done it with the skinwalker, can't see why they wouldn't be able to do so for dragons... unless page count is concerned.

Hardcover Player Companion? Sign me in.

... I wonder if things would be different if the Half-Dragon template was more similar to Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial?


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I wouldn't buy it. Because I basically have already bought it, I'm just waiting for paizo to finally put out the product so I can give them the money for it.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I would love a Blood of Dragons book, but I'll echo many posters reservations on the danger of too much racebloat. I would prefer 1 specific race that may have a variable stat adjustment (similar to the humans +2 in any one thing) with some set race abilities that make them decent excel at one thing at a time. So a draconic race that wants to go the martial route will be good at it, but if it also picks up arcane abilities they'll be less able. This would prevent them from honing in on the human's "we're good at everything" while still allow them to excel at the aspects of dragons mentioned above (warrior, mage, rogue, or priest). Not 100% sure how you would pull it off though.

Also I would like to see additional support for kobolds and nagaji in it as well, but would be the most interested if it gave more background info on dragons in general along with nations that are directly involved/influenced by dragons.


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ok, how about this

New Race - Draconians
Descrition:
The actual origin of the Draconians is shrouded in mistery, some say they are naturally born from a bloodline of half-dragon ancestors or draconic sorcerers, others say they were created via magics and splicing by dragons from humanoid ivestock eons ago to be their servants and/or super-soldiers, however nowadays they are a widespread race around the world.

Appearance:
As diverse as true dragons both racially and culturally, all Draconians appear as powerfully built reptilian humanoids with obvious draconic features, they have a scaled skin that varies wildly in pattern, scale shape and texture, thick arms that end in four-fingered hands, muscular legs with digitigrade feet, bony spikes that adorn their forearms, both fingers and toes that end in talons, and a draconic head, with eyes may be either with vertical, round or even crescent pupils, their mouth is large and full of curved, serrated teeth, the tongue varies in color and length and is sometimes forked. other features vary according to their ancestry and may include horns, spiky protusions, frills, barbels or hardened scales, they may have or may lack hair in the form of ropy 'dreadlocks' or a mane of thick hair; they also have a reptilian tail, it may be short and stumpy or long and thick. There is little sexual dimorphism in Draconians, females tend to have a more feminine body shape(including sometimes actual, vestigial breasts because of their humanoid heritage, although they are usually stretched over their pectoral muscles to the point they are barely noticeable) and a voice not as deep, but aside from that they are as tall and muscular as the males.

Life Cycle:
According to the subspecies draconians may either be born from eggs or from live, ovoviviparous birth, hatchlings quickly learn how to move around and are born with teeth, sometimes in a Draconian brood(composed of 1 to four eggs) the strongest hatchling devours the other unhatched eggs at birth, in their culture this is considered a sign that the hatchling is destined to do great things, either good or evil. Draconians are adults at 12-14 years of age and can live up to 400 years. Draconians are pure carnivores and eat pretty much anything organic, they are not picky about their meat being cooked or raw, sentient or not, alive or dead; some of them eat vegetables as well because they like the taste, for the same reason some even eat gems, although they get little nourishment from them.

Society:
Around the world Draconians live either in communities of their own, these communities may vary from nomadic tribes to small cities, or integrated into 'melting pot' communities with other types of humanoids, some of them act as the servants of true dragons. Draconian society is clan-based, draconians tend to either be Lawful or Chaotic, with little space for Neutral; Lawful Draconian societies are highly disciplined, typically developing a strict sense of honor that regulates their life, the level of adherence to such honor code varies between individuals but even a Lawful Evil Draconian is going to do its best to stay true to such code, many of them consider honor to be more important than life itself, but those that think they could trick a honorable Draconian into harmlessness by turning their code against them quickly finds out these beings are not above using loopholes to counter loopholes. Chaotic Draconians put their own feelings above any code, and if they form communities these are based on pecking order, however their personal pride still pushes them to fight their way fairly, there is little glory in winning through deception, so they still tend to be less disorganized than orcs or other savage humanoids. this does not mean they do not use cunning when necessary.

Personality:
Although their temperament varies according to their personal experience and racial heritage, Draconians at large are proud of their own draconic ancestry, that brings them to either become righteous in striving to live up to such glorious legacy or self-righteous in constantly rubbing a supposed superiority in other people's faces, or more typically a mix of both. For this all Draconians strive to improve themselves and prove their own worth, this sometimes drives them to arrogance. Draconians get along well especially with Kobolds.

Racial Traits:
Abilities: +2 Strength or Constitution, +2 Intelligence or Charisma, -2 Wisdom or Dexterity.
Size: Medium.
Speed: 30 feet.
Senses:Low-Light Vision.
Special Qualities:
- Draconic Heritage: Draconians are Humanoids with the Human* and Dragonblood Subtypes, they are considered both humans and dragons.
- Draconic Scales: Draconians have a +1 racial bonus to AC.
- Skill Bonuses: Draconians have a +1 bonus to Perception and Intimidate.
- Dragon Power: at 1st level a Draconian chooses one of the following powers:
* Breath Weapon: the Draconian has a breath weapon, choose either Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Force, or Sonic, this is the type of damage the breath weapon deals. Choose either a 20 feet cone or a 40 feet line, this is the shape of the breath weapon. The weapon can be used 1/Day and inflicts 1d6 + half the Draconian's level + the Draconian's Strength or Constitution modifier, a Reflex save equal to 10+ half the Draconian's level + the Draconian's Strength or Constitution Modifier halves the damage. The Draconian has resistance 10 to the damage type of its own breath weapon.
* Frightful Presence: the Draconian can manifest an aura akin to a true Dragon's frightful presence. The aura can be manifested 1/Day as a free action and has a range of 30 feet, all enemies around the Draconian must succeed a Will Check equal to 10 + the Draconian's level + the Draconian's Intelligence or Charisma modifier, failure means the enemy is shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d6+the Draconian's Intelligence or Charisma modifier, on a critical failure the enemy is frightened instead of shaken. This ability can only affect creatures that have less hit dice or levels than the Draconian. This is a mind-affecting effect.
* Wings: the draconian can temporarly grow a pair of draconic wings, it can grow the wings for a number of rounds per day equal to 1+ half its level + its Strength or Constitution modifier, these rounds do not need to be consecutive. Sprouting and retracting the wings is a Standard Action, and the Draconian gains for the duration of the wings a fly speed of 20 feet with poor maneuverability.
- Draconic Might: Draconians regain 1 extra hit point with natural healing.
Languages: Draconians speak Common and Draconic, those with an intelligence score higher than 10 may also speak Abyssal, Infernal, Celestial, Aklo, Auran, Ignan, or Undercommon.

*=if one wants to play a draconian of different heritage, just replace Human with any other humanoid subtype.

Variants:
* Chromatic(Smaugan)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +1 Sense Motive and Intimidate
the Smaugan trace their ancestry to Chromatic Dragons, and their scales tend to be of such colors. Smaugan have a domineering tendency that leads them to arrogance more than other variants, as well as a shrewd cunning. Despite their ancestry, Smaugan are not inherently evil, but many of them end up becoming such because of discrimination from other races, some good Smaugan exploit this prejudice at their advantage to infiltrate evil organizations and destroy them from the inside. Smaugan can be found anywhere in the world.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Draconic Terror: once per day as a standard action a Smaugan may wreathe its weapons with draconic energy, for a number of rounds equal to half its level + its Strength or Constitution modifier the Smaugan's attacks inflict +1d4 extra energy(see breath weapon) damage, this damage is not multiplied by Criticals.
- Chromatic Reservoir: choose one energy type(see breath weapon), not only you gain Resistance 5 against that energy type, but also every time you are struck by that energy type, you can try to resist it with a Fortitude save(DC equal to 10+damage suffered), if you succeed you suffer only half the damage.

* Metallic(Dracoi)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +1 Sense Motive and Diplomacy
descending from the noble Metallic Dragons, Dracoi have scales that reflect a metallic sheen. The dracoi are typically calm and open-minded , but also quick to read others. Although they fit better than their Smaugan bretrhen, not all Dracoi are good, some of them get sick of positive expectetions from others, such evil individuals actually exploit the 'positive discrimination' to fool others into a sense of false security so that they lower their guard against them. Dracoi can be found anywhere in the world.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Metallic Aura: the Dracoi can 1/Day as a standard action manifest an aura effect within a range of 20 feet, choose between the following energy types: Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Force, or Sonic. This is the type of damage dealt by the aura, the aura lasts for 1d6 + Int/Cha rounds, and those that fail their Fortitude save suffer 2 points of damage, they are entitled another save each round.
- Alternative Breath: rather than use its typical breath weapon, the Dracoi can rather breath a psychotropic gas, choose one of the following effects: asleep, repulsion, slowed, weakened, paralyzed, if the target fails the saving throw it suffers such condition for 1d6 rounds, the DC is Constitution-based.

* Primal(Vlitrai)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +1 Knowledge(Planes) and Perception
Aloof and reserved, the Vlitrai descend from Primal Dragons and have a deep connection to the elements. Although they can be found anywhere the boundaries between the Material Plane and the Elemental Planes are thin enough to let Primal Dragons around, the greatest concentration of Vlitrai is in the nation of Vudra.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Enhanched Breath: rather than have a typical breath weapon, the Vlitrai may choose not to add its Str/Con modifier to the damage, at the exchange of adding a condition to the breath: 1 ongoing damage for 1d6 rounds(magma), blinded for 1 round(mist), stunned for 1 round(brine), deafened for 1 round(crystal), 1d6 extra negative energy damage(umbral), if the target succeeds the Reflex check such secondary condition is negated.

* Imperial(Ryuren)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +1 Perception and Diplomacy
A common sight in the Dragon Empires are the Ryuren, Draconians whose ancestors are the Imperial Dragons. These Draconians are noble and contemplative, less likely than other Draconians to resort to violence but no less deadly. The veneration of dragons in such lands allow the Ryuren to be well-integrated, sometimes even to the point of occupying positions of power. Most Ryuren reside in the Dragon Empires, but some have traveled far and individuals can be encountered outside Tien.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Draconic Grace: once per day as a minor action a Ryuren may cast Freedom of Movement on itself, with a Caster Level equal to its level.
- Tricky Breath: like the breath weapon, but rather than add its Strength or Constitution modifier to the damage the Ryuren not only inflicts damage but attempts a maneuver. Choose one among the following: Bull Rush, Trip, Disarm, or Sunder. This is the one the Ryuren uses with its breath weapon, if the target fails the saving thrown it must also save against the maneuver, if the target succeeds the first savinng thrown the maneuver is negated.

* Linnorm(Thraax)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +1 Bluff and Intimidate
Savage at heart, the Linnorm-descended Thraax have a wild attitude that leads them to give great value to freedom, either only their own or that of their fellows as well depending on alignment. Discriminated because of such a fearsome ancestry, Thraax tend to not care about that, as long as they are allowed their degree of freedom, some however become adventurers to prove their worth or out of vengeance. The Thraax are mostly encountered in the north, but especially, needless to say, in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Linnorm Curse: once per day when reduced to 0 hit points or subjected to a Critical Hit, the Thraax can, as a free action, bestow a Curse on the opponent who struck it. The target must succeed a Will Check equal to 10 + half the Thraax's level + the Thraax's Intelligence or Charisma modifier, failure means the target suffers the effect of the Bestow Curse spell.
- Primal Resilience: once per day a Thraax may call to the supernatural hardiness of Linnorms, gaining Fast Healing 1 for a number of rounds equal to 1d4 + its Strength or Constitution modifier(minimum 1).

* Outer(Thuban)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +1 Sense Motive and Bluff
Possibly the rarest among the main Draconian subraces, the Thuban trace their ancestry to the barely-known Outer Dragons, this alien heritage makes them difficult to read and aloof, many of them feel an attraction toward the outer rifts of reality. Outside Golarion the Thuban are slightly more frequent, but the few of these mysterious dragonblood are, for some odd reason, mostly found in Qadira, another large population is said to thrive in Numeria.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Alien Presence: rather than cause its opponents to be shaken, the Thuban may instead to cause its Frightful Presence to inflict a different condition. Choose among the following: Touch of Idiocy(Lunar), Blinded(Solar), Staggered(Time), Sickened(Void), treat other creatures as if Blurred(Vortex), this is the effect of the Alien Presence, otherwise it works the same way as the Frightful Presence.
- Star Traveler: up to 2/Day a Thuban may move by teleporting through hyperspace, the Thuban can move up to 30 feet in any direction, it must see where it is going, and can only carry up to its maximum load of objects or creatures, otherwise the teleport fails.
- Space Sight: the Thuban can see through any darkness in a range of 60 feet, even that created by the Deeper Darkness spell.

* Others(Wyrmbrood)
Alt. Skill Bonuses: +2 to one skill.
The Wyrmbrood are not actually a subrace, but rather comprehend all of those Draconians that do not belong to the main six subraces, they vary even more wildly among each other. Because of their rarity Wyrmbrood rarely form any community of their own, and are almost always encoutered in others's communities.
Alternate Dragon Powers:
- Dragon Turtle's Shell: the Wyrmbrood's Natural Armor bonus to AC raises to +3.
- Guardian Dragon's Lair: the Wyrmbrood may cast Rope Trick 1/Day, without the need of a rope.
- Gorynych's Reflexes: the Wyrmbrood gains a +1 bonus to Reflex and Iniziative.
- Kongamato's Breaking: the Wyrmbrood gains a +1 bonus on Sunder checks.
- Korir-Kokembe's Swarm: the Wyrmbrood may cast Vomit Swarm 1/Day as a Spell-like Ability.
- Peluda's Tail: the Wyrmbrood has a long tail, it inflicts 1d6+Str damage and threatens Critical on a 19-20.
- Spine Dragon's Hide: the Wyrmbrood may use Thorn Body on itself 1/Day as a spell-like ability, using half its level as caster level.
- Taniniver's Scourge: the Wyrmbrood may cast Contagion 1/Day as a spell-like ability.
- Woundwyrm's Maw: the Wyrmbrood has a breath weapon that causes random energy damage, but inflicts 1d8 instead of 1d6.
- Wyvern's Stinger: the Wyrmbrood has a long tail ending in a stinger, the stinger inflicts 1d6+Str damage and 1/Day it can deliver Poison(1/Round for 6 rounds, 1 point of Str/Dex/Con damage[player's choice], Cure 1 save, DC 10 + half the Wyrmbrood's livel + the Wyrmbrood's Str/Con modifier).

Ok, the references in the subrace names are:
Smaugan=Smaug from the Hobbit(the archetypical evil dragon);
Dracoi=Draco from Dragonheart(the archetypical good dragon);
Vlitrai=Vlitra from Hindu mythology(dragon as a force of nature);
Ryuren='Ryu' means 'Dragon' in japanese, 'Ren' means 'Person' in chinese;
Thraax=Vermithrax from Dragonslayer(unlike Draco or Smaug, Vermithrax was less a character and more a pure destructive force, like the Linnorms);
and Thuban='Thuban(arabic for 'Serpent')', also known as Alpha Draconis, is the most famous star in the Draco constellation, so it fits the spacey fluff of Outer Dragons.

(also, Smaugan all sound like Bendedict Cumberbatch, Dracoi sound like Sean Connery)


The starting point is clearly +2 Strength and +2 Charisma to make those gish Sorcerer Draconic Bloodline Dragon Disciples more feasible.


I'd buy it, too!

Ruyan.


GM Kyle wrote:
The starting point is clearly +2 Strength and +2 Charisma to make those gish Sorcerer Draconic Bloodline Dragon Disciples more feasible.

suddenly paladins and bloodragers have competition with the angelblooded aasimar and the demonspawn tiefling for "best race".


Threeshades wrote:
I wouldn't buy it. Because I basically have already bought it, I'm just waiting for paizo to finally put out the product so I can give them the money for it.

I can understand that feeling.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This theme is just sucked so dry and overdone.
Hopefully Paizo will stay away from this for a very long time and come up with newer, more refreshing and entertaining options^^

Like a book for Kitsune, Nagaji and Wayang.


Hayato Ken wrote:

This theme is just sucked so dry and overdone.

Hopefully Paizo will stay away from this for a very long time and come up with newer, more refreshing and entertaining options^^

You know Pathfinder has been out for almost 7 years, right?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Since i played it from the first day on i know that very well.
Not having "dragonborn" was and is an essential relaxing esperience, differentiating PF from another game.

In PF, kobolds have that niche. They are next to dragons and connected to them in many ways.

Shadow Lodge

Hayato Ken wrote:

Since i played it from the first day on i know that very well.

Not having "dragonborn" was and is an essential relaxing esperience, differentiating PF from another game.

In PF, kobolds have that niche. They are next to dragons and connected to them in many ways.

But but but....Dragons *looks at you with wide pleading eyes*


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dragons are cool. As NPC´s and enemies. As PC´s you get a totally different game.

Shadow Lodge

I understand your reasoning completely, but some of us really like dragons. In my opinion dragons are some of the coolest things ever. In the game as it currently is, the only way to play something dragon like is to play a kobold, which, lets face it kind of suck. They're one of the throwaway enemies that low level parties get pitted up against, and they're size small, which adds a whole different dimension to their lack of awesomeness, or to play a sorcerer. You could conceivably play a dragon disciple, but they need to be spontaneous casters first. There is no way to play a dragon like character that is not a caster. So you can't have a raging red dragon humanoid smashing everything up and breathing fire and having a grand old time, which is what some of us would really like to be able to play, without making a custom race. I think it would be an awesome idea for Paizo to release a book with dragon descendant options like they did with the were-creatures.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If it´s a home game, play a refurbished dragon shaman?

Scarab Sages

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Or Dragonfire Adept (there has got to be a better name for that class - maybe you could compromise between it and the Warlock, call it your game's "Warlock," and thereby wind up with more of a Warlock from the New World Computing tradition - exotic, Chaotic, power-loving mages whose reputation is practically glued to dragons)?


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Hayato Ken wrote:

This theme is just sucked so dry and overdone.

Hopefully Paizo will stay away from this for a very long time and come up with newer, more refreshing and entertaining options^^

Like a book for Kitsune, Nagaji and Wayang.

As a fan of both Dragons and Kitsune, I am conflicted. D:

Hayato Ken wrote:
Dragons are cool. As NPC´s and enemies. As PC´s you get a totally different game.

Is it wrong that I am far more interested in playing an 'enemy and npc' race than anything that is available to the players right now? I like fantasy because of things like dragons. I'd rather play something based on the race than fight one.


I've been in the "No Dragon like characters" camp for a while. One could blame my transition from D&D 3rd edition to 4th... and the reaction was mostly to the so-called 'dragonborn' being put front and centre... still splatbook material if you ask me.

That said, I'm cool with whatever weirdness being part of Golarion as long as everyone and their neighbor need not be one. That seems to be more Eberron's schtick (and I LOOOOVE Eberron), if anything. And another thing, the way dragonborn looked caused a reaction akin to me encountering the Uncanny Valley. I'm confident that if Paizo does half-dragons that I there won't be squick. So, will I use them? Nope! I might even prevent them as PC options at my games. But, I still want them available as content. Inclusivity, not exclusivity, I say!


Doctor Necrotic wrote:

I've been in the "No Dragon like characters" camp for a while. One could blame my transition from D&D 3rd edition to 4th... and the reaction was mostly to the so-called 'dragonborn' being put front and centre... still splatbook material if you ask me.

That said, I'm cool with whatever weirdness being part of Golarion as long as everyone and their neighbor need not be one. That seems to be more Eberron's schtick (and I LOOOOVE Eberron), if anything. And another thing, the way dragonborn looked caused a reaction akin to me encountering the Uncanny Valley. I'm confident that if Paizo does half-dragons that I there won't be squick. So, will I use them? Nope! I might even prevent them as PC options at my games. But, I still want them available as content. Inclusivity, not exclusivity, I say!

Player Companion shouldn't be filled with GM only options... You do seem to understand that "not at my table" doesn't mean "no one else can have it".


Whoa, you got me all wrong. I'm saying I want options available in the game itself (and certainly on the player side of things.) Sometimes I'm not a fan and I might not allow them in some personal games. It's like if I didn't like sci-fi and wanted to skip out on Iron Gods. I would be happy that fans of Numeria got an AP, but I wouldn't play it. (Which of course is just an analogy, as I love Numeria.) But, I want those options in the books for the people that like dragon-esque characters and want to play as them. Or if I'm not DMing, I'll suck it up and deal with a player who wants to play as a dragon-ish character. When it comes to more player content, as the old phrase goes, variety is the spice of life. (Now, if that variety is balanced with other things and has great fluff to boot, awesome!)

I didn't say anything about GM only options, just how I wasn't a fan of how Wizards tackled 'dragonborn' and figure that if something like that was covered by Paizo, it might be handled a bit better. Also, Blood of Dragons would indeed to be a splatbook.


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Hayato Ken wrote:
Since i played it from the first day on i know that very well. Not having "dragonborn" was and is an essential relaxing esperience, differentiating PF from another game.

How exactly? Not having a dragon-headed character has caused trouble for you before?

Hayato Ken wrote:
In PF, kobolds have that niche. They are next to dragons and connected to them in many ways.

Except that kobolds are the cannon fodders of draconic characters. They're not the gnome or halfling équivalents, but the goblin ones.

Oh, and like goblinoids, they're mostly evil, frail, dumb and vile. In Races of the Dragon, I had a hard believing that kodolds could be LN or even LG and ration for once.

Hayato Ken wrote:
Dragons are cool. As NPC´s and enemies. As PC´s you get a totally different game.

Diffeent how? having an aasimar isn't the same as having an actual angel, just like having a skinwalker isn't the same as having a lycanthrope.

Once again, it feels like you just had a bad moment with draconic characters in the past.

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