Mattock question


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


This came up in a recent play through.

The mattock lets you recharge to use Strength or Melee in place of the normal skill in a check to defeat a barrier with the lock or obstacle trait. What is the "normal check" in this instance? I ask because many lock/obstacle type barriers have a strength/melee option already. Take locked passage as an example: Dexterity/Disable 8 OR Strength/Melee 16. Would recharging the mattock allow you to attempt to defeat the barrier using strength/melee with a difficulty of 8 or since it already as a strength/melee difficulty would it merely be good for the reveal power?


I would say it means you can use strength or melee instead of any skill that is listed on the check to defeat the barrier as long as the barrier has the lock or obstacle trait in the upper left corner where traits are listed.

So since Locked Passage says lock or obstacle in the upper left corner, you can recharge the mattock and essentially attempt a strength or melee 8 check. It doesn't matter if strength is listed as a possibility on the barrier already.

There are quite a few lock/obstacle barriers that don't have a strength option at all: Falling Bell, Shopkeepers Daughter, Circles of Binding, Collapsed Ceiling. And there are a few where the strength option is lower than the other option: Battered Chest. But it doesn't matter. Mattock essentially makes every skill option read as Strength/Melee and then you can choose the difficulty you want to attempt.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
There are quite a few lock/obstacle barriers that don't have a strength option at all: Falling Bell, Shopkeepers Daughter, Circles of Binding, Collapsed Ceiling.

Hence the reason for the question. I feel as though the intent behind the mattock is to allow strength/melee to be used instead of the normal check on those barriers. If they already have a strength check it doesn't make sense (to me) that you can pick and choose which difficulty you will attempt just because you're using the mattock. The way we've been playing it is that if the barrier already has a strength check then you can use the mattock to add a die to that check otherwise you can recharge it to make the check strength/melee instead. As some of our group also feels like it should be used in the manner which you suggest, I decided to ask for clarification.


Yeah. I can see feeling it that way. But that is kind of bringing in our own conceptions about the cards. And one of the cardinal rules is that the cards do what they say and we shouldn't impose limitations that aren't there.

Rulebook v3 p22 wrote:
Cards Do What They Say. Read any card as it is encountered or played, and do whatever it says as soon as it makes sense to do so. Let the card tell you what to do, and don’t impose limitations that aren’t there.

So even when there is a strength check, there is another check. And that other check is a "normal skill" available on the barrier. Technically, a character like Amiri could even use the mattock on a barrier with the lock or obstacle trait that had a strength skill option, but not melee and then use her melee skill. I'm not sure anything like that actually exists, but it would work.

But, better off asking than just guessing. In an abundance of counselors there is safety. We can all help each other understand better.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Picture it this way: When an Obstacle or Lock barrier has a Strength check to defeat, it represents using raw power to bust through. For a locked door, you'd be busting the door itself. When you use the Mattock, you're using a specialised tool to break only what the easier check would have you bypass. For our locked door example, that'd be you busting the lock but leaving the door intact; a much easier feat.

Honestly, the valid barriers with strength checks as of AD3 are all locked chests or doors. They are the ones where it makes sense to use a mattock to bust through. It's the others that make little sense: Do I really want to know how using a mattock lets you beat Shayliss with Strength or Melee?


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Apparently, the Shopkeeper's Daughter is perhaps easily disgusted by mattocks as well. Maybe seeing it makes her think about having to work a few hours restocking shelves of heavy equipment.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

I enjoyed the last two paragraphs.


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Just had to share that only today did I realize that you can play Disintegrate to defeat Shopkeeper's Daughter. That seems overkill for the problem and I wonder what consequences it would bring.


Ha! Yes, that is a great story idea


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Just had to share that only today did I realize that you can play Disintegrate to defeat Shopkeeper's Daughter. That seems overkill for the problem and I wonder what consequences it would bring.

Disintegrating the engagement ring?

I remember someone offering an engagement ring PACG during an event once...
Hope they won't ever use disintegrate...


It was First World Bard. Hoping the same.

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