A little shy of 18 months of running the Jade Regent has finally come to an end this evening which culminated in a TPK. The sad part was the fact that it happened on the second floor of the palace only one encounter from victory.
I attribute the TPK to three factors:
1.) I had a last minute cancellation of two players who said they were sick.(45 minutes notice)
2.) Our paladin charged an ogre mage with only 8 hp and got cut down as a result.
3.) I was a bit more aggressive with Koza than I should have been... Although they killed two Oger Mages by the second round.
Tomorrow, I will do a full report.
Did the players who did show up bring the absent PCs in as back-up? Did Ameiko perish in the assault? If not, at least you have grounds for another crack at the endgame with the surviving characters.
They did not bring in the absent PCs... my players are very personal about their characters and wouldn't like for someone else to run them.
Ameiko is dead.
Truth is the Alchemist almost pulled it off, but he critical fumbled 2/3 of his bombs and the other just missed. But of course the splash damage from his bombs killed the stabilized ninja character and the paladin made the biggest blunder when she charged an ogre mage who had reach of course with only 8 hp...
Full Report of the final just before the final battle:
The players did not rest before moving to the second floor is best explained by how they had gotten the seals from the Teikono... They cast greater invisibility on themselves and stole them from the dragon without him noticing.
They weren't so successful avoiding the traps but they felt they needed to hurry in order to avoid the dragon joining any further battles. They went to the Kabuki area and the ninja was able to see the four ogre mages and Roka Kozu. The ninja started with a fire shuriken attack hitting the first one in the surprise round. The Ninja won initiative and threw the shuriken again. The oger mage attacked with its cone of cold doing some good damage to the party. The other three moved closer while attacking with their bows to no real effect. The alchemist throw three bombs at the first mage and was successful. The paladin finished it off with her bow. Roka chastised the geisha and buffed as per the guidelines.
The ninja threw some more shuriken at the second ogre mage, bombs the second ogre mage used his cone of cold doing some serious damage to the party. Ameiko peppered it with arrows.
The paladin dangerously low on hp(8) decided to charge the ogre mage and was dropped with its sword by an extremely accurate AoO which killed her in one fell swoop.
Round 3 started with the ninja killing the second ogre mage and alchemist tossing a bunch of bombs at the third ogre mage. The third ogre mage COC'd the group knocking out the ninja. Ameiko concentrated on the fourth mage with her attacks and did really well. Roka got into the mix this round attacking the alchemist. but only hitting him once.
Round 4 has the alchemist change tactics and he used confusion bombs on Ogre mage 3. Charming him and leading to Ogre mage 3 killing Ogre mage 4 in this round. Ameiko was then successful in striking some serious blows to Roka but she was still in the mix and in the air.
Round 5 Had the alchemist hit roka decently but of course she is one tough cookie. The charmed ogre mage got killed by an A.o.O from Roka chopping him with her naginata. Ameiko attacked again did damage but then Roka full attacked Ameiko leaving her unconscious.
Round 6 could have won it for the PCs except the alchemist rolled 1s on two of his attacks and missed the third. Rolling the 8 sided die those three times to see where the bomb landed spelled doom for both Ameiko and the unconscious ninja. Roka full attacked the alchemist and game over. TPK
Rough. IMO the game should have been held until the absent PCs could attend but that is how things roll at your table.
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They gave me only 45 minutes notice. I live in a large city and the other players were already on the subway on the way. Common courtesy would have dictated that they should have contacted me in the morning beforehand.
I spend my time prepping for the game and others are ready for the game and then well shouldn't play... I don't think that would have been fair to the other players. Gaming is a social contract between the players and the gm and each other, when someone flakes out (I understand people get sick from time to time) but you should give the GM more than 45 minutes notice, its not like I have loads of campaigns prepped that I could run if people decide to not show.
Crit happens.
They gave me only 45 minutes notice. I live in a large city and the other players were already on the subway on the way. Common courtesy would have dictated that they should have contacted me in the morning beforehand.
I spend my time prepping for the game and others are ready for the game and then well shouldn't play... I don't think that would have been fair to the other players. Gaming is a social contract between the players and the gm and each other, when someone flakes out (I understand people get sick from time to time) but you should give the GM more than 45 minutes notice, its not like I have loads of campaigns prepped that I could run if people decide to not show.
Yeah, this sort of thing really has too many variables for there to be a defined right or wrong way to handle it.
Questions like: How many people are absent? Are absences something that happens often? Are there enough people left to keep the game going? Are there any pre-existing agreements between the group how to handle things? How far are people traveling to get there? - all play a part in the decision.
What sounds like the wrong way to handle it to one person is the right way to another. The only people that can say if this was the right or wrong way to handle it in this case are the group in question themselves. Any of us looking at this from the outside will tend to place our own situational variables in there and make the decision based on those, rather than the ones actually in play.
The only issue I see here, is that the Ogre Mage shouldn't have gotten an AoO when the Paladin charged him. Of coarse, that also assumes there is no house rule here I'm not aware of.
Normally, I'm not up for do-overs, but honestly, you really shouldn't have run the final game without the other two. I would've held off, run a one shot, and waited for another time. People get sick, especially at this time of year. I don't think it's fair to lay the blame on your absent players since anything can happen. Life happens, especially the older you get.
Heaven forbid they have a death in the family...
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You know, it's not a Total Party Kill because you have two PCs left. So run a game where they try to retrieve their buddies' remains (and Ameiko's) and then bring them back from the dead. They can then try to infiltrate the place (seeing that the Oni believe them all dead) and recover the Seals to try again.
You know, it's not a Total Party Kill because you have two PCs left. So run a game where they try to retrieve their buddies' remains (and Ameiko's) and then bring them back from the dead. They can then try to infiltrate the place (seeing that the Oni believe them all dead) and recover the Seals to try again.
That seems to sum it up, yes.
Oger mages are large and humans are medium so it did get an attack of opportunity.
I didn't run the final game... I judged by the last potential encounters which theoretically there are two before the final battle, although both are optional depending on how the PCs explore the palace.
I did not blame them but I attribute their absence as being a factor in their failure.
It takes me 30 minutes to get to the game location and some of the others over an hour. I agree life happens but the older you get the more you should show common courtesy to other people who are relying on you for things... Sure, you can get into an accident, someone could have died. However, being sick does not excuse you for being inconsiderate. If I held others up to my Spartan standards I would be livid all of the time but I do believe in reasonable consideration and mutual respect for the other players, the GM and the story. The game takes place at 1630 on Saturday afternoon every saturday.
The other three players may or may not want to continue the campaign... well if we do it won't be for a few weeks...
'Punishing' the people who don't turn up and don't give you fair warning is understandable. Unfortunately, in a case like this it's more punishing for the people who do turn up and lose their characters due to being outnumbered.
(And shouldn't the paladin have healed himself as a swift action before charging a large creature?)
The paladin charged without swift healing herself, why I really don't know I think he (the player) forgot. It was 5 vs. 4 so not overwhelming odds... The players do and did not feel that way at all... The three who came loved it and how they went out in a blaze of glory... sure the guy playing the paladin felt a bit stupid for forgetting the swift heal but, hey, he was excited and having a good time.
I equate it to not looking both ways before crossing a street... i know that sounds a bit callous, but people get hit by buses every so often.
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Should never have ran this in the first place, with half your party missing of course it was going to be near impossible to win. Sorry to be blunt but this seems like common sense to me.
Normally there are five PCs and then Ameiko which makes a total of six... Two people did not show which means there were 4 characters in play. Kindergarten math: half of six is three not two... Considering the module was written for a party of four... That is nonsense pure...
I like how I am getting nitpicked. You have three people sitting on the other side of the table wanting to play... you have had no time to prep anything else, you ask them if they mind they said lets do this and I did it.
But maybe all of you are better GMs than me... I tried my best with what I had. And my players had a damned fun time...
If they are anything like me, they probably thought they could push through the sickness until they realized too late that they couldn't. Or maybe it was just a newer development. Honestly, better they called it in rather than come to the game and get everyone sick. It'd be much more inconsiderate if they didn't call in sick at all, or got the whole group sick. At the end of the day, it's just a game and s*%% happens. If you can't roll with the punches like that, well I don't know what to tell you.
As for being nitpicked, well, like you, I have Spartan standards about GMing. Running a final boss game when you're short never works out. It might've been fun, but chances are, it probably would've been more fun with the whole cast. And it's not all that hard to come up with a one shot. Hell, Paizo has like three of them on their website here (We be Goblins is a good one). Or throw on a movie or Archer or something.
Besides, being a GM means having thick enough skin to not get miffed about "social contracts" or anonymous people on the internet giving you their criticism. :P
I certainly dont mean to nitpick or question your GM skills (gratz for running all 6 modules, that takes no small amount of determination), but from the players perspective, that seems a sucky way to end an epic campaign. Maybe the surviving PCs could petition the last emperor's ghost to put Ameiko's soul into one of their (or an NPCs body) so they could still succeed in putting her on the jade throne. Let the dead PCs return as spirits inhabiting temporary bodies or terracotta soldiers or something. If I had played for as lomg as your players have, I would want a crack at the Jade Regent.
It wasn't the final boss battle. I made due which is what I was supposed to do. I don't mind getting criticized, for the most part but having no time to prep is really bad. We have our game in a restaurant.
I will see what the players want to do... If they want another try then I will give it to them, if not... we will play something else. I haven't played in a long time so, part of me wouldn't mind taking a break for a week or two anyway.
Sure I can have them run the battle outside with Jiro and the armies and try that out... we'll see.
I would be reluctant to play at a restaurant or any other place that exposed to non-roleplayers. Do you not get disrupted by other people?
We get left alone which is cool. Most people don't speak English so they have no idea what we are doing. The only time people come over is when we have big combats with the miniatures and stuff and the sometimes a drunk guy will come by and say Shtoh Eta? or what is that? and then they will go away but that has happened twice maybe three times.
That hurts. You and the players, I would assume. There is a way to salvage it, since not all of them are dead, so do that. See what you can do about it. Retrofit a little if you need to, it's not as if your players are going to protest about where some corpses went, right? Then plan a final session, being clear that everyone needs to be there for the finale, and if they can't, you will need notice a day in advance.
It sounds like you're a bit bitter about what happened. Don't let it end that way.
Two people did not show which means there were 4 characters in play... Considering the module was written for a party of four...
The palace isn't exactly written for 4 characters - they suggest four PCs plus NPC allies. So it was always going to be a dangerous situation and the players should have been extra careful but weren't, and on top of that had bad luck.
I'd talk it over with the group, see if they want to play a session where the surviving PCs and friendly NPCs (under player control) try to salvage the situation.
I'm not casting stones.
The other thing you can do is have the party wake up in prison. If no one was brought to negative Constitution, that's easy to do. Just say the Oni stabilized them because they want to gloat over the PCs who dared to do so much harm.
You can even handwave away any who died by having them do this.
There is even a story-reason why they'd do this. The PCs would have (hopefully) riled up the populace for civil war. A public trial and execution would destroy their hopes.
He forgot I guess.
When I said they died they were all brought to -20 constitution or thereabouts. Clinically dead. We'll see what they want to do.
I suppose the Oni might spring for a Raise Dead for Ameiko and the dead PCs and then hold them hostage to keep the rebel army at bay...
I think what I might do, when the other players arrive is do some Deus Ex Machina and let the other players come in and try to finish the fight, and just say all the other players are stable at 1 point from forever dead.
that lets you take a crack at the last encounter if the other two players make it through.
Why? Because it lets you at least attempt to finish the AP
Also would you be willing to share your levels that you gave Ameiko?
Ameiko's levels were Aristocrat 1/Bard 9/Rogue (Rake) 3... Magnuskn helped me out with the other three but his Ameiko as a swashbuckler was a bit overpowered for my party's tastes...
But things got even more crazy because well, she allowed herself to be possessed by Ito, but it was all on the sly to confuse the paladin, so add a lot of sorcerer which she didn't use until the paladin got iced.
To be honest, if I had finished the game, Ameiko would have ended the oni and gone back to Sandpoint anyway. Everyone wants to know where they came from but once you see it you will want to go home.
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What I would do, is start a whole new campaign, or maybe a mini-campaign with this failure as the backdrop. This time, they are people that live in Minkai. They can still be travelers that are not native to the region, or they can be from the area. Then the PCs can see the consequences, then strive to succeed this time. Maybe they stumble across someone that followed Ameiko (or the previous 2 PCs that survived) and that person (or persons) become the benefactors. The Jade Seal is preserving Ameiko's body, not allowing any harm to come to it, so the Jade Regent has the body sealed away.
Thus the quest becomes, find her tomb, recover the body. The seal brings her back to life, and thus you all try again... ^_^
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Rough. IMO the game should have been held until the absent PCs could attend but that is how things roll at your table.
I am inclined to agree. The players were completely wrong imo for bailing out with little or no notice, but the result - at my table at least - would have been my telling the other players that they got bailed on, that there was no way I was running the conclusion to an 18 month AP without key members of the party present and that they should be pissed, but they should be pissed at the other players for wasting all of our time. If it was in the middle somewhere that would have been one thing, but the finale? It can wait.
That's just me. I don't know anyone involved so I can't fairly judge the call.
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Players missing a game on occasion is fine, but I personally wouldn't go through with such a major session as the final session with a reduced group.
...Now obviously you can't cancel when the other players are already on their way, you've established that, but I might suggest changing the game of the evening (if your party is cool with that) so that the finale can be played on a day where everyone can make it.
Something like "Hey guys, I'd prefer that the whole group was with us for the end of this campaign. Since not everyone could make it today, would you guys mind if this week, we play this pre-prepared one-shot adventure instead, and we can go back to the main campaign next week when everyone's here for it?"
I think everyone is missing the key point that it wasn't the finale, it was the last major encounter before it. And knowing how long battles at this level last, I knew the final wasn't going to happen that day unless the PCs were completely un-thorough.
And where is this pre-prepared magical one shot adventure coming from? I live in a country where Paizo is not well represented and getting my hands on adventures takes some real forethought.
I know it is easy to vilify the GM and say these things. Shoot if they gave at least two hours notice I could and would have run a different adventure or contact the other player and ask him to run something else.
I had my 60lb rucksack packed and I was about out the door. I will get them around the table on Saturday and we will see what happens.
Not blaming you at all, how you run things is your business.
I guess, people are confused what the point of this thread, titled 'Bad Ending' is supposed to be if not asking for advice on what to do next, or opinions on what other GMs would've done in your shoes.
Seriously, what is the point of this thread then? What do you want people to address? Or did you just want to post and not expect a conversation and opinions to appear?
I mean, if this is just a report, you could've posted a write-up saying how stuff went down at your table in the GM reference thread.
Seriously you say "Sorry guys no game this week, the others cancelled and gave me no notice blame them, see you next week sorry." The alternative was tanking your entire AP by running short table so it still seems like common sense to me.
And where is this pre-prepared magical one shot adventure coming from? I live in a country where Paizo is not well represented and getting my hands on adventures takes some real forethought.
GMs are expected to write magical one-shot adventures at a moment's notice. GMs are expected to devote every minute of their waking lives to preparing for the next session. The GM code is far more taxing and stringent than the paladin code.
So the logic is I should punish the 3 people who came because two flaked. That seems stupid on many levels because it promotes flakiness.
The game wasn't tanked but the party made some mistakes which they paid for. I was really looking for ideas to keep it going if it could be salvaged... not second guessing my decision based on an assumption that wasn't true.
Honestly, I would prefer to tank the AP everytime to promote common courtesy. Funny thing is I felt genuinely bad about what had happened on Sunday and a little bit yesterday... But listening to the arguments made here shows me I made the best decision. Winning in PF is not a guarantee... I remember the old school 1st and 2nd edition where death was more commonplace.
Thanks everyone for your help.
This is why I run Pathfinder in Savage Worlds. Even if you're shy a few players, you can adjust things on the fly. :D
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Honestly seems as if you made the best of a bad situation. Things went south and that happens sometimes. I have frequently gone with three players when a few of my people choose not to show up.
If I were to continue I would make it very dramatic. The missing party members rush up to see the last of their comrades getting slaughtered. If you other players (who lost characters) still want to take part have them arrive with a few underleveled NPCS (I'm not familiar with the AP so that might not be possible) and continue the fight RIGHT from where it left off.
That way they all get a good swing at the encounter and you MAY (maybe not) be able to finish out the encounter and the path.
If not then them's the breaks. Sit down and give them a little epilogue of what happened because they failed and then maybe tell them what would have happened if they succeeded.
That's what I would do.
I hope it turns out well.
Unless some of them are missing, there's the two surviving PCs and Sandru, Shalelu and Koya, which could work pretty neatly for 5 players...
And where is this pre-prepared magical one shot adventure coming from? I live in a country where Paizo is not well represented and getting my hands on adventures takes some real forethought.
There are Pathfinder one-shot adventures, with an oriental flavor available from Rite Publishing, with the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (for example). Including Frozen Wind, a FREE one-shot adventure set in a mountain monastery during a freak snow storm with oni, frozen zombies and more. There is also an overnight stay in a haunted Japanese bath house with nods to the movie, The Grudge, called Haiku of Horror: Autumn Moon Bath House. There are more, but easily gotten as PDFs in time for a weekend game. Frozen Wind is probably too low a level of adventure, however Haiku of Horror has a ghost with 5 different CR variances up to CR 22 - so this one is very flexible for a high level adventure for an alternate location in Minkai.
There are options, even in a country with poor Paizo support, as for Pathfinder, there are a lot more companies than just Paizo.
I think the criticism towards the OP is rather misplaced. It happened and now the question is how to turn things around so as to still finish the campaign. the silver lining is I think the initial defeat makes the last adventure more high stakes. Whether the players take on some of the caravan NPCs to lead a rescue mission. Remember you have the Amatatsu Seal so I think you can be somewhat liberal in how it reacts to the situation (wouldn't save them entirely but maybe give them another chance to save themselves -i.e. raise them from the dead).
I think you've got options as a GM and truthfully I think if the players manage to bounce back from this defeat then their final victory will be that much sweeter.
In the two circumstances when half my group wasn't able to make it, the first time I had the two remaining players run two goblins each for the We Be Goblins mini-module (and had an absolute hoot - one player had his goblins with a Beavis and Butthead vibe while the other had the female goblin as axe-crazy and wanting to eat the cannibal goblin), and the second time I just ran the other characters as NPCs.
Seeing that this was the end of the game, however, I can understand not wanting to do that. Though it still ends up with the players left out in either case so... really, as I said you don't have a Total Party Kill. You have two PCs left, you have a Seal which would do its best to bring Ameiko back (so forcefield over her perhaps that the Oni can't penetrate), and running with NPCs, it becomes a retrieval mission and attempt #2.
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The players did not rest before moving to the second floor is best explained by how they had gotten the seals from the Teikono... They cast greater invisibility on themselves and stole them from the dragon without him noticing.
How did they manage to sneak past something with blindsense? All dragons have dragon senses...
They weren't so successful avoiding the traps but they felt they needed to hurry in order to avoid the dragon joining any further battles. They went to the Kabuki area and the ninja was able to see the four ogre mages and Roka Kozu. The ninja started with a fire shuriken attack hitting the first one in the surprise round. The Ninja won initiative and threw the shuriken again. The oger mage attacked with its cone of cold doing some good damage to the party. The other three moved closer while attacking with their bows to no real effect. The alchemist throw three bombs at the first mage and was successful. The paladin finished it off with her bow. Roka chastised the geisha and buffed as per the guidelines.
I'd also wonder how a Cone of Cold is getting past a party that should have an artifact sword that can cast protection from cold or resist cold 30 at will.
At this point we will see what they want to do.
@Chernobyl,Their stealth skill roll was higher than his perception even without the bonuses for invisibility.
Personality dispute between Suishen and the party. Noone wanted to carry a sword that was "Railroading" them on how to act.
@Gamer-Printer, if I had some more forewarning those ideas would probably have been solid.
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I'm certainly not second-guessing the decision whether to go ahead and run your game or not. In my opinion, that ought to be up to the players present. And they said they wanted to go ahead… so, you did. Well done.
What interests me is the fact that you seem to be so irritated about it. These are people you've gamed with for at least 18 months. I mean, they're your friends, right? Can you seriously get mad at your friends for being sick? Or for not realizing exactly how sick they were? Or for hoping beyond hope that they would feel better in time for your session, and then not? At least they contacted you (even if it was only 45 mins. notice) instead of just not showing.
Or, maybe you don't consider these people your friends. In that case, you have my sympathies, because GMing an entire AP for people you don't particularly like has got to feel more like a job than a good time.
The situation is complicated. I am friends with two people in the group, one I can go either way with. The other two I barely know. I live in a country where interested Roleplayers who can speak English well enough to game with, are somewhat difficult to come by.
And I think that is why I got so irritated because the two who didn't show up aren't my friends. Sometimes it does feel like a job, for five week at the end of December to the beginning of January that is exactly what it was.