Most overpowered level 1 builds?


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Lantern Lodge

What are the most cheesed out level 1 builds (legal, Paizo published)? Nothing that relies on anything other than standard starting gold. Sort of curious what playable cheese is out there.


What are the rules? Point Buy? Starting gold from the CRB or starting gold from PFS?
Are traits legal? How many? Are any not legal for this?

Silver Crusade

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barbarian
20pt buy PFS legal.

stats
Str:20
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:7
Wis:11
Cha:7

feats- combat reflexes, power attack

weapon- glaive, naginata, Ransuer, anything with reach, though preferably 1d10+

you now have a dude, while raging

+7 to hit while power attacking doing 1d10+15 damage per hit.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Haven't we done this before?

The search feature is a wonderful thing.

The Exchange

Check out Farg, 20 point buy and PFS legal. Here he is at level 2.

Pluses:
- Strong damage dealing
- Good skills
- Utility spells

Cons:
- Survivability (okay for a level 1 char but should your GM focus fire on him he doesn't stand good chances)

Silver Crusade

Mystically Inclined wrote:

Haven't we done this before?

The search feature is a wonderful thing.

cept it only works half the time better to just google.

anyway I enjoy revisiting old discussions/topics and seeing if anything has changed/been reconsidered.


IMO (and likely many others'?)

Summoner as is. Likely 7+ SM to start, as a SP (No V,S,M and sta action) along with possible feat stuff and spells? Master Summoner as is. (Yay 10+ SM spells) Synthesist Summoner as is and especially if you min-max the hell out of it. I'm sure other archetypes of this class apply but this is off the top of my head.


I remember that "Rock-thrower" Stone Oracle build thread from a week or so ago, it was pretty remarkable.
I'll try to find it and link it.
At level one you were at +6 to hit(within 30 feet) and doing 2d4+9 flippin damage...with a rock(within 30 feet).
There was debate over whether one needs to be proficient with said rock; I'm of the school of thought that a rock is a simple weapon, and therefore no you don't need a proficiency feat spent.
So even with the -4 non-proficiency some people claimed he would suffer, it was still +3 to hit, 2d4+9 damage (the -4 is mitigated by a +1 to hit with rock from a favored class bonus, thus a total of -3 to hit with rocks)
Here it is: THREAD

Scroll down to the 2nd build he offers


rorek55 wrote:
cept it only works half the time better to just google.

Okay. Using any search tool at all is a wonderful thing. ;)

And a build similar to yours was what immediately jumped to mind. If your proposed barbarian drinks a 50 gp potion of enlarge person for the boss battle, he can swing a Lucerne Hammer (usually 1d12) for 3d6+16.

Silver Crusade

EDIT: correction, cant afford the horse.. hm, time for some research!

found it, ok
Human Gendarme
Stats
Same as my barbarian

Feats- mounted combat, ride by attack, spirited charge

3d8+24

Lantern Lodge

Hm, maybe that Barbarian dips Cleric and takes Growth domain. Swift action to self-enlarge. Uh oh.

Dark Archive

Summoner I made just to run through Thornkeep level 1 before transformation (this was a replay, we were doing a "speed run"):

Oni-spawn Summoner Ragnark
Str: 18
Int: 5
Wis: 14
Dex 14
Con: 14
Chr: 12

Feats: Combat Reflexes
Chain Shirt, LongSpear

Eidilon (Biped)
Str: 16
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 11
Chr: 10

Feat Combat Reflexes
Evolution: Magic Attacks (necessary for this mod), Reach (Bite), Bite

@ Level 1 little can make more damage than a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes; few things can survive a solid hit, even without power attack.

Sovereign Court

Mystically Inclined wrote:

Haven't we done this before?

The search feature is a wonderful thing.

So is not being a condescending butt.


Point taken. I will refrain in the future. Thanks for calling me on it. :)


Human Tattooed sorcerer with draconic or primal (fire)
20 cha

feats are
spell focus evocation,
spell specialization burning hands,
varisian tattoo

at level 1, burning hands is DC 17 reflex save with 4d4+4 (avg 14) fire damage in a 15 foot cone.

Silver Crusade

you forgot to go cross blooded for orc bloodline. so you could get 4d4+8 damage.

Lantern Lodge

bfobar wrote:

Human Tattooed sorcerer with draconic or primal (fire)

20 cha

feats are
spell focus evocation,
spell specialization burning hands,
varisian tattoo

at level 1, burning hands is DC 17 reflex save with 4d4+4 (avg 14) fire damage in a 15 foot cone.

This one I like, but why stop there? Get Gifted Adept or a similar trait, pump it to CL5th. With two such traits you can even get CL 6 at level 1 hehe.

Granted, the DM will probably ban a build like that hehe. Clerics can get nasty high CL with the right traits, feats and combination of racial abilities. You can even get one extra use of BH as an Ifrit.

Between

-Gifted Adept and similar traits
-Varisian Tattoo
-Spell Specialization
-Draconic bloodline
-Gnome Pyromaniac racial ability / Ifrit's Fire Affinity

That's something like CL6th or CL7th at level 1. With fire theologian, you can add another 2 levels on that. Easily reaching CL10th by level 5, you do the same thing with Fireball. That's a potential DC23 Fireball 10d6+10 at level 6.

To really get the DM to throw the book at you do this as a Fire Theologian cleric. Wear full plate and a tower shield. Take sixth level in Draconic bloodline just for the extra damage. Get an empower metamagic rod (lesser) for a few thousand gold. That's suddenly 50% damage bonus on 10d6+10 fireballs, all at level 6. When the Wizard is running out of spells, you're popping pearl of power and sitting there with insanely high AC (heavy armor and tower shield proficiency don't affect AoE damage...), better saves, better BAB and a d8 hit die.

EDIT:

With Theologian's second ability, at level 5 you take Intensified Spell (Fireball). By level 8 you are dealing 15d6+15 Fireballs then using your metamagic rod(s) to pump that up another 50%. That's almost 100 DPR on a failed save. Might fizzle at high levels once SR and Fire resist come into play, but you will smoke levels 5-10 like a cheap blunt, and utterly wreck any PFS module currently out.

My favorite complement to this was with an NPC I constructed this way. He took Quick Channel at level 5 (being Human he had Varisian Tattoo and Spell Spec. Fireball long before level 5) and then followed up the Intensified, Empowered Fireball with some negative energy channel. At later levels you could milk it a bit longer by taking spell penetration and getting a rod of Persistent Spell. If the DM gets creative with fire resistance, declare Sonic or some other rare element with your draconic bloodline power. The text never specifies that it must be an arcane spell :-P


Two full-Orc Barbarians with 22 base strength and that one teamwork feat that doubles rage potency for orcs (too lazy to look for it). 30 Strength at level 1 each.

Shadow Lodge

Dwarf fighter in four-mirror armor with a tower shield and waraxe works for PFS cash. Takes the dwarf racial saves trait and Steel Soul for +3 to saves. He will have the highest 1st-level defenses in the game. Combats are simply a matter of attrition: his attack bonus is weak, but better than his opponents flailing desperately against his invincible armor class. Three whiffs and a hit beats nineteen whiffs and hit every time.


summoner synthesist or human fighter with trip build and a fauchard. While not the scope of the question eventually a trip build augmented by a utility class with many natural attacks does heinously reliable damage and buffs however.


rorek55 wrote:

barbarian

20pt buy PFS legal.

stats
Str:20
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:7
Wis:11
Cha:7

feats- combat reflexes, power attack

weapon- glaive, naginata, Ransuer, anything with reach, though preferably 1d10+

you now have a dude, while raging

+7 to hit while power attacking doing 1d10+15 damage per hit.

I am derp, how do you get +15? I got the 9 from STR, 2 from Power Attack, but I'm missing the extra 4.


JMontey13 wrote:
rorek55 wrote:

barbarian

20pt buy PFS legal.

stats
Str:20
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:7
Wis:11
Cha:7

feats- combat reflexes, power attack

weapon- glaive, naginata, Ransuer, anything with reach, though preferably 1d10+

you now have a dude, while raging

+7 to hit while power attacking doing 1d10+15 damage per hit.

I am derp, how do you get +15? I got the 9 from STR, 2 from Power Attack, but I'm missing the extra 4.

A bit of a thread necro, but:

It's actually more from both Strength and Power Attack.

While raging, he gets +4 Strength. This makes the Strength bonus +7, x1.5 for two handed. Also, the Power Attack damage bonus is +3 for a two handed weapon. (Though, I think that only gets to +14 for dmg, not +15.)


Saldiven wrote:
JMontey13 wrote:
rorek55 wrote:

barbarian

20pt buy PFS legal.

stats
Str:20
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:7
Wis:11
Cha:7

feats- combat reflexes, power attack

weapon- glaive, naginata, Ransuer, anything with reach, though preferably 1d10+

you now have a dude, while raging

+7 to hit while power attacking doing 1d10+15 damage per hit.

I am derp, how do you get +15? I got the 9 from STR, 2 from Power Attack, but I'm missing the extra 4.

A bit of a thread necro, but:

It's actually more from both Strength and Power Attack.

While raging, he gets +4 Strength. This makes the Strength bonus +7, x1.5 for two handed. Also, the Power Attack damage bonus is +3 for a two handed weapon. (Though, I think that only gets to +14 for dmg, not +15.)

I forgot 24 = 7 mod, but yea, still can't find that last little point.


Tagged for later research.


Saldiven wrote:
JMontey13 wrote:
rorek55 wrote:

barbarian

20pt buy PFS legal.

stats
Str:20
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:7
Wis:11
Cha:7

feats- combat reflexes, power attack

weapon- glaive, naginata, Ransuer, anything with reach, though preferably 1d10+

you now have a dude, while raging

+7 to hit while power attacking doing 1d10+15 damage per hit.

I am derp, how do you get +15? I got the 9 from STR, 2 from Power Attack, but I'm missing the extra 4.

A bit of a thread necro, but:

It's actually more from both Strength and Power Attack.

While raging, he gets +4 Strength. This makes the Strength bonus +7, x1.5 for two handed. Also, the Power Attack damage bonus is +3 for a two handed weapon. (Though, I think that only gets to +14 for dmg, not +15.)

It's worse than that. Str bonus +7 x1.5 gets rounded down to +10, +3 for PA gives a total of +13. That's 2 difference.


I actually fancy the Unchained Kistune Trickster. It's not visibly overpowered, nothing fancy about hitting other than typical unchained rouge things, but at low levels skills are an amazing boon at avoiding or navigating around combat. Right off the bat Kitsune can be seriously well optimized for social face skills while still being very adept at Stealth and Acrobatics.

Mundane skills are easily underrated, but at low levels its harder for optimal builts to come online especially ones with limited resources like spells. Having played a Kitsune Trickster before I was blowing the DC of everything skill based out of the water at lvl 1. It was actually more fustrating for the GM than if I could just kill something really well. Really, it has more to do with Kitsune being an amazing lvl 1 race than it does the class. Realist Likeness is increadible.


Sorcerer with Color Spray known. It is THE most overpowered at-level spell in the entire game.


CommandoDude wrote:
Sorcerer with Color Spray known. It is THE most overpowered at-level spell in the entire game.

Color Spray is pretty ridiculous.

But, despite the 1 round casting time, a Kitsune Fey Sorcerer with Sleep can be stupid powerful at level 1. It doesn't take much effort to have a DC 20 Sleep spell right out of the gate.

Base: 10
Cha 20: +5
Race: +1
Fey: +2
SpLvl: +1
SplFocus:+1

Total: 20


Basically, play a Kitsune. Instant lvl 1 OP build. :p


Overpowered? Relative to what? Level ones can have a decent chance of dying to a house cat.


CommandoDude wrote:
Sorcerer with Color Spray known. It is THE most overpowered at-level spell in the entire game.

Yes, and a mesmerist gets to give you a -2 to saves against it as a swift action while having better defences than a sorcerer.

Or a witch can spam slumber forever if endurance is part of your performance metric.


Gnome Sorcerer (Crossblooded Draconic/Orc)
Alternate racial trait: Pyromaniac (+1 caster level for Fire spells)
Cha 20
Traits: Gifted Adept (Burning Hands), Precocious Spellcaster (Cantrip of your choice & Burning Hands)
Feat: Varisian Tattoo (Evocation)

Burning hands cast at 1, +1 for Pyromaniac, +1 for Gifted Adept, +1 for Precocious Spellcaster, +1 for Varisian Tattoo, +1 dmg per die from draconic, +1 dmg per dia from Orc, +1 dmg from Saltpeter power component.

5d4 +11 dmg in a 15 foot cone 5 times per day.

Grand Lodge

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Saldiven wrote:
A bit of a thread necro

Man, I love the Paizo message boards.

Start a new thread and someone always says, "there's already a topic for this, learn to use search!"

Use the search to find an existing thread and add to it and someone always says, "major thread necro!"

You stay classy, Paizo message boards. :)

Liberty's Edge

Amazed that nobody mentioned the Small Druid with a Roc AC. Flight at first level is pretty awesome and might break more adventures than mere DPR


Bigguyinblack wrote:

Gnome Sorcerer (Crossblooded Draconic/Orc)

Alternate racial trait: Pyromaniac (+1 caster level for Fire spells)
Cha 20
Traits: Gifted Adept (Burning Hands), Precocious Spellcaster (Cantrip of your choice & Burning Hands)
Feat: Varisian Tattoo (Evocation)

Burning hands cast at 1, +1 for Pyromaniac, +1 for Gifted Adept, +1 for Precocious Spellcaster, +1 for Varisian Tattoo, +1 dmg per die from draconic, +1 dmg per dia from Orc, +1 dmg from Saltpeter power component.

5d4 +11 dmg in a 15 foot cone 5 times per day.

I forgot Varisian Tattoo requires Spell Focus.

If you play a Human you can take the feats Spell Focus Evocation and Spell Specialization Burning Hands. You will still have the same caster level and damage but you have to have at least 13 Int.


A pair of orc barbarians with Amplified Rage makes for a rude low level encounter. +10-12 for 2d6+15 per hit from 30 Strength (18 start +4 racial + 8 morale) at level 1 is rough to deal with, especially since their Con is bumped by an extra 4 as well, making Orc Ferocity even scarier.

Synthesist Summoner is probably the only thing that can deal with that in a direct fight as they're broken in the early levels (they're fine at later levels though when action economy becomes more important). Helpful Halflings might be able to turtle until rage runs out with their insane ACs, but one hit would spell death. Unless that Halfling had a flying mount, then they're all kinds of fine. Actually anyone that blew a trait on Rich Parents or any of the other trait->gp traits could pick up a battle trained Dire Bat at 1st level since they're only 450gp.

With that in mind, I think for 1st level the most OP non-magical build you can have is a Goblin (or Human with Racial Heritage (Goblin)) Fighter that spends his wealth wisely.

potential goblin example:
Gobbo Gobbins the Gobby

Level 1 Fighter (Dragoon)

20 POINT BUY
Str 8
Dex 22
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 5

Traits: Rich Parents, Reckless
Feats: Roll With It, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus (Ride)
Skills: Acrobatics +10, Ride +17, Stealth +14 (untrained)

Gear: Leather Armor, Battle Poi, Sling, Crossbow, BATTYBAT (battle trained dire bat), 250gp in alchemical goodies such as smokesticks, acid flasks, alchemist's fire, thunderstones and tanglefoot bags and 350gp on hiring a 5th level wizard hireling for 5 days (assuming that 1st level adventures count as "Deadly" and not "Hazardous," in which case they could be hired for 2 weeks, or "Suicidal," knocking the wizard down to 3rd level for a day)

Yeah, extra money kind of breaks level 1. Roll With It and Mounted Combat don't hurt either since it effectively makes melee hp damage useless against the PC and his mount.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll take a stab at this:

Play anything you want, but take the Additional Traits feat to get Rich Parents at first level. Then purchase a pair of war trained tigers with your starting funds (or whatever other nasty attack animals meets your fancy). Wreck the campaign for a few levels. Immediately after buying the tigers/other animals, save up a little bit more money and retrain the Additional Traits feat to something more useful.

And that only uses half of the feat...

EDIT: A pair of combat-trained pet tigers costs 500gp each, and are both CR 4.

Other options might include the following:

You could also afford a riding pteranodon (750gp, CR 3) and snipe low level foes from on high. Alternatively, you can afford a riding dire bat for every member of the party (300gp and CR 2 each) so they can join in on the fun as well. How about a megaloceros (800gp, CR 4) to trample all of those pesky goblin encounters into the earth? A quartet of combat-trained lions (300gp and CR 3 each) or a combat-trained dire lion (1,000gp, CR 5) would easily instill terror in pretty much everybody for quite a few levels to come.

The true terror, however, is a heard of 13 combat trained bison (75gp and CR 4 each) that could collectively deal 26d6+156 damage with their stampede as early as level 1.

(The above assumes ~1,000gp with which to purchase the animal(s), which is fairly likely with most characters possessing this trait.)


The rulership variant channeling cleric is the best barring none.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
The rulership variant channeling cleric is the best barring none.

Even better than a rulership variant channeling cleric that uses my build above? :P


Ravingdork wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
The rulership variant channeling cleric is the best barring none.
Even better than a rulership variant channeling cleric that uses my build above? :P

I'm sorry, I can't hear either of you over the sound of this kingdom I am ruling. Yes, I am definately the rightful King and not a Kistune pretending to be the King.

*muffled screams*

Um, that was a Kingly fart. *rolls nat 20*


Ravingdork wrote:
...Rich Parents...pair of war trained tigers...13 combat trained bison...assumes ~1,000gp...
OP wrote:
Nothing that relies on anything other than standard starting gold.

Classic, lovely, frighteningly effective, and explicitly prohibited by the OP.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Ragebred Barbarian has to be worth a mention. A gore and 2 hooves at level 1 is awesome,and can be used in conjunction with a greatsword for 4 attacks a round. Lesser Beast Totem at 2 puts it to 5 natural attacks.

Actually, an Abyssal Bloodrager gets claws at 1. 5 attacks is nuts. I think you might be better off snagging Power Attack as your feat over Extra Feature. Nothing should live through your full attack anyway and Power Attack will help you when you are moving.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Avoron wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
...Rich Parents...pair of war trained tigers...13 combat trained bison...assumes ~1,000gp...
OP wrote:
Nothing that relies on anything other than standard starting gold.
Classic, lovely, frighteningly effective, and explicitly prohibited by the OP.

Not sure how I violated it. That IS the standard starting gold for a character with the rich parents trait. ;P


The Mortonator wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
The rulership variant channeling cleric is the best barring none.
Even better than a rulership variant channeling cleric that uses my build above? :P

I'm sorry, I can't hear either of you over the sound of this kingdom I am ruling. Yes, I am definately the rightful King and not a Kistune pretending to be the King.

*muffled screams*

Um, that was a Kingly fart. *rolls nat 20*

Fair point but then you could be a human who succeeds on DC 32 at level one to convince the population to revolt against the king.


Ravingdork wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
...Rich Parents...pair of war trained tigers...13 combat trained bison...assumes ~1,000gp...
OP wrote:
Nothing that relies on anything other than standard starting gold.
Classic, lovely, frighteningly effective, and explicitly prohibited by the OP.
Not sure how I violated it. That IS the standard starting gold for a character with the rich parents trait. ;P

you'd start with 900gp for taking rich parents, not 1000.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
The Mortonator wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
The rulership variant channeling cleric is the best barring none.
Even better than a rulership variant channeling cleric that uses my build above? :P

I'm sorry, I can't hear either of you over the sound of this kingdom I am ruling. Yes, I am definately the rightful King and not a Kistune pretending to be the King.

*muffled screams*

Um, that was a Kingly fart. *rolls nat 20*

Fair point but then you could be a human who succeeds on DC 32 at level one to convince the population to revolt against the king.

The thing about Kitsune, is that you can pretend to be about anyone, roll 1, and blow the perception check out of the water. It's extremely reliable and more importantly when something goes wrong you can change your face. The polical game can be mastered in a way on par with higher level spells.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
...Rich Parents...pair of war trained tigers...13 combat trained bison...assumes ~1,000gp...
OP wrote:
Nothing that relies on anything other than standard starting gold.
Classic, lovely, frighteningly effective, and explicitly prohibited by the OP.
Not sure how I violated it. That IS the standard starting gold for a character with the rich parents trait. ;P
you'd start with 900gp for taking rich parents, not 1000.

900gp + you normal 1st-level starting funds will usually put you at or over 1,000gp.


Ravingdork wrote:
900gp + you normal 1st-level starting funds will usually put you at or over 1,000gp.
rich parents wrote:
You were born into a rich family, perhaps even the nobility, and even though you turned to a life of adventure, you enjoy a one-time benefit to your initial finances—your starting wealth increases to 900 gp.

Not increases by, increases to.


An Unchained Monk with a sansetsukon would give a Barbarian some competition with the ability to make a full two-handed strength and power attack strike twice per round with no penalty at level 1.


Assuming you will meet a lot of Humanoid enemies as a level 1 character, the School Familiar of an Enchanter Wizard can spam Daze all day long (DC 11, for a Chicken or Peacock familiar).

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