Killing another player character on accident


Advice

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Lantern Lodge

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So I play a low intelligence Cleric in a home campaign. I used Quick Channel with Alignment Channel and targeted evil outsiders. So I pumped out 12d6 energy damage. Party Barbarian was an evil outsider (disguising himself and the player told nobody). So the DM says "Your Barbarian falls down, cold to the touch".

The other player is absolutely livid with me, but I think this is perfectly legitimate. It's sort of what happens when you play an evil outsider, right? It'd be meta to bring OOC knowledge in anyways... right?

Liberty's Edge

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You did nothing wrong... the guy who was trying to play the secret squirrel super ninja evil guy that the party doesn't know about only has himself to blame.

And had you used OOC knowledge to not use the attack when you did, then it would have been metagaming.


Your cleric being low intelligence plays no part here, your character chose to commit an action that was totally legitmate. If you as a player DID have that knowledge though, it couldn't hurt to let the barbarian's player know about the possible consequences of your character not knowing.


Yes, that's what can happen if you keep your race and/or alignment secret. Your PC's intelligence doesn't even matter.
It's the same with standard channel and characters with negative energy affinity.

If you only took alignment channel to pull this off and it wasn't really an accident, then things look different.


I have seen players nearly killed by accident (a series of crit-fails tha resulted in a player repeatedly flinging their weapons at another player by accident).

But in this case, the guy was hiding his alignement/type. If he didnt expect this, sigh...

Lantern Lodge

I think most adventuring parties wouldn't think twice to slit the throat of an evil outsider in their midsts... PC or not. The player stormed out and is refusing to play again until the DM "punishes my stupidity" lol

Scarab Sages

Not your fault. It was a bad idea for the DM to allow that in the first place. Not sure how it worked unless the PC was actually playing a monster race, as an Outsider(Native) who happens to be evil is not the same thing as an Outsider(Evil).

Silver Crusade

Good riddance?

Sorry, only advice I can give if the above reaction to his untimely death is accurate. The characters should revel in the fact that you revealed an enemy in their midst and move on.

Grand Lodge

What kind of evil outsider?

Dark Archive

The only way this wouldn't be legit is if you weren't fighting evil outsiders at the time, and just sort of randomly decided to fire off a blast of evil-outsider-killing-energy for the heck of it (while knowing OOC that a PC was an evil outsider).

But, barring that unlikely situation, sounds like the player keeping the secret probably should have thought twice about not mentioning possible weaknesses. (Seems easy enough to make up a lie, and claim to have been cursed to be treated as evil, for some effects, after pissing off a demon, or because your mom was a paladin who destroyed an evil temple and 'got some on her' or something.)

Lantern Lodge

He was playing a disguised half-Fiend that just enjoyed battle more than anything else. I agree that a DM allowing a character like that to begin with is slightly suspect, but we also have a (non-evil) Drow Noble Samurai... so. A few other party members want me to use resurrection on him, but I am basically refusing to do so :P


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bob_the_monster wrote:
I think most adventuring parties wouldn't think twice to slit the throat of an evil outsider in their midsts... PC or not. The player stormed out and is refusing to play again until the DM "punishes my stupidity" lol

I shouldn't be laughing so hard, but I am. Oh, the schadenfreude.


This is exactly why evil characters are not a good idea. The guys anger is legitimate, BUT he should have been aware of the consequences beforehand.

You are also quite legitamate in refusing to ressurect a half-fiend without atonement.


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Eh, I think PC death is a big enough thing that using a bit of OOC knowledge may be justified... but if the player told nobody, well, his problem.

Scarab Sages

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Since he appears to be a whiny little bit** anyway try this.

"Oh my God, what have I done? I'm so sorry that I killed you "insert characters name". IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN!!!!! OH THE HUMANITY!!!! I will spend the rest of my life atoning for this horrible mischance!" Then smile at him, munch some popcorn, and watch him have an aneurism. Fun for all!

Seriously though, you did nothing wrong and he needs to put on his big boy pants and roll up a new character.

Lantern Lodge

I mean I see that at the end of the day this is a RP game. Having a character do something convenient just for the sake of RL etiquette is silly. People gotta realize, Chaotic Evil characters just don't last long.

Grand Lodge

Offer to buy a Salve of Second Chance.

Say, you are willing to give the monster a new chance at life, without the taint of fiends to hold him back.

Are you the worshiper of a good god?


bob_the_monster wrote:
He was playing a disguised half-Fiend that just enjoyed battle more than anything else. I agree that a DM allowing a character like that to begin with is slightly suspect, but we also have a (non-evil) Drow Noble Samurai... so. A few other party members want me to use resurrection on him, but I am basically refusing to do so :P

IF you choose to do so, have your character go into another room temporarily and give the DM a secret list of all the protective spells you cast on yourself, cause when he ressurects, he's going to most likely let loose.

Grand Lodge

Wait, nobody has Detect Evil?

He had a Disguise that lasted 24 hours a day?

Lantern Lodge

Both myself and another party member made it clear that if another caster resurrects him, we plan to kill him the same way :P

Grand Lodge

Well, if you go Reincarnate, with a clause that he must willingly accept an Atonement spell, then you are good.

Everybody gets what they want.

Player gets resurrected, and is no longer a Half-Fiend, or Evil.


bob_the_monster wrote:
Both myself and another party member made it clear that if another caster resurrects him, we plan to kill him the same way :P

Why's that? With that info it starts sounding like it wasn't totally accident from the start.

Lantern Lodge

Why would a LG Cleric and a Paladin NOT kill an evil outsider? ;P

Seriously though, the player in question is a major league douchebag that's overturned tables and often shows up drunk to sessions. Watching a manchild rage that I have killed his character secretly fills me with glee. On the off chance they did resurrect him, I'd squeeze off at least two channels before he got to me. Or just smack him with a Plane Shift and send him back home to the Abyss ;P


bob_the_monster wrote:
I used Quick Channel with Alignment Channel and targeted evil outsiders. So I pumped out 12d6 energy damage.

You channeled twice in a round? You should have noticed that he was being hurt the first time and had the chance to not do the second one. Although if my last cleric had discovered one of her companions was an evil outsider, I don't think she'd have stopped until he was dead.

Grand Lodge

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Sounds like a bigger issue.


In a campaign where the party was playing members of a thieves' guild, I played a Dhampir Ninja who took great pains to disguise his true nature, appearing for all intents and purposes as human. I didn't actually disclose the race to the players either, at the time of character creation. The party Bard (sadly our only healer) used a wand of cure light wounds on my character when he went unconscious, killing him in the process. In my opinion this was a risk I took playing that character as I did, and it turned into a running joke in our group.

Sovereign Court

Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.


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bob_the_monster wrote:
Watching a man-child rage that I have killed his character secretly fills me with glee.

And now we get to the heart of it. ;)

Still ... you didn't act out of character. Nor would sending him back whence he came be problematic, since you're now aware of his nature. And yeah, it is amusing when, "Mua ha ha!" turns into, "What do you mean, I'm dead?!"

Just be careful that the "douche-bag ... man-child" doesn't decide to make this a real world issue and overturn you instead of a table.


Daelen wrote:
In my opinion this was a risk I took playing that character as I did, and it turned into a running joke in our group.

Wait! That's ... that's ... an ... adult reaction to misfortune!

What are you tryin' to do, here, man?

Silver Crusade

Lol this is pretty funny. I assume this is a home game, Drow Noble is a pretty OP race

Grand Lodge

Pan wrote:
Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.

Sounds like he is Drizzting it.


I don't know if this was covered because I skipped every post but there is a difference between an evil outsider and an outsider with the evil subtype. IIRC alignment channel affects outsiders with the evil subtype and no barring houserules no outsider with a subtype is legal for gameplay. So if he had a teifling he should still be alive.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Pan wrote:
Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.
Sounds like he is Drizzting it.

Nothing wrong with that :)

Scarab Sages

Even a half-fiend template is an Outsider (Native), not Outsider (Evil). He would have had to actually been playing a Demon, Devil, Daemon, Hag, Div, or whatever to be vulnerable to your alignment channel.

Still, the better choice seems to be to ban him from the game. Seems like he is doing it himself, so good riddance.


Depending on my level of friendship with the player, I might tell the player "Sorry, man. I had no idea that would do that to your character." and be sincere about it. In character I would likely just be stunned, but relieved to have removed such a creature from my midst.

If the other player can't see the difference then maybe they need to take a break and mature a bit before coming back to the group? I wish you good luck!

Grand Lodge

So, how is this guy in the group?

Friend of a friend? Player's Brother, or Boyfriend?

What prevents him being booted?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Resurrection doesn't work on outsiders, I thought...
All one would need to do to bring him back is summon him via a gate, or someone in the abyss sends him back up.

Liberty's Edge

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Good riddance... from what you say it seems like the guy was a class A douchenozzle and a game disruptor and his demise was poetic. That said, I wouldn't revel in his grief too much so as to come across as petty and quarrelsome yourself.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Yeah, unless Pathfinder changed something, bringing back outsiders (non-native) is super hard. I think 3.5 had a spell for it in one of the many splats, don't know about PF.

I'm guessing this is a game in which the DM encourages +CR templates/races, given that two are in the party. If it's a party of monsters they likely should be disclosing this sort of thing.

Grand Lodge

How could you Bob!?

(Klingon Back Turns To Him)

PVP is the worst thing that happens in roleplay...(Southpark episode as they kill boars long enough to reach 88th level?)

Withthatsaid get the other guy some tissue, a stepladder to get over it.

I hate when the party lacks "commonality". He wanted to be a secret Evil-dude who won't be enlarged with an Enlarged person spell...He needed to die.

My stance is game one you should die or at least game two. If you live you live, but after that first EXP Point, you begin to love that character. I've "eaten" a character before..we as humans get emotional and only a rare intellectual can actually build a character who can survive for 30 games solo.

Be warned, there are more players like this guy than you think, he will have his revenge!!!!!!!!

Grand Lodge

Kryzbyn wrote:

Resurrection doesn't work on outsiders, I thought...

All one would need to do to bring him back is summon him via a gate, or someone in the abyss sends him back up.

Reincarnate does.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Oh, true.

Grand Lodge

I really like the Reincarnate+Atonement combo.

It solves all your issues with his PC, and gives him a chance to live again.

Solving your problem with the player, well, that is another matter.


The guy sounds like a jerk so good riddance.

That said, your first post didn't specify, but were there any other outsiders present that you were fighting against? My first impression was that you were, but rereading your post I see you never specified.

If this happened in the heat of combat, then just desserts. If, however, you burned two alignment channels out of the blue just because and happened to kill your teammate in the process I'd say you were metagaming and planning on screwing him over.

Either way, sounds like you guys aren't friends. I don't understand gaming with people you don't like.

Grand Lodge

Circumstance can bring an unwanted player.

That's why I ask what those circumstances are.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Pan wrote:
Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.
Sounds like he is Drizzting it.
Nothing wrong with that :)

Good drow of the world unite!

Silver Crusade

Chemlak wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Pan wrote:
Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.
Sounds like he is Drizzting it.
Nothing wrong with that :)
Good drow of the world unite!

HURRAH! (when do I get paid for being nice?)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
rorek55 wrote:
Chemlak wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Pan wrote:
Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.
Sounds like he is Drizzting it.
Nothing wrong with that :)
Good drow of the world unite!
HURRAH! (when do I get paid for being nice?)

I can pay you a thousand gold... but it's all in coppers. Got a bag of holding?

And on topic: a half-fiend doesn't have the Evil subtype, so odds are he shouldn't have been affected, unless the GM is house-ruling alignment subtypes into the half-outsider templates.

Grand Lodge

Chemlak wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Pan wrote:
Wait, the drow noble didn't torpedo the group? This is an interesting development.
Sounds like he is Drizzting it.
Nothing wrong with that :)
Good drow of the world unite!

Well, in Golarion, there are no good Drow.

A normal Elf can actually become Drow, by being too evil.


Kyzbyn is right (despite his and BBTs OT spam). Half-fiends gain the outsider (native) type. Your barbarian "friend" shouldn't have taken any damage at all.

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