Lance wielding charger...


Advice


I've always loved the lance for it's damage potential and the image of an armored warrior, complete with shield, carrying a lance and impaling his foes as he charges into combat. My question is, is it viable to make an unmounted lancer? One who fights with shield and lance on foot?


outside of the Titan Mauler's Jotungrip, I don't think it is possible (and you certainly don't get the improved damage from mounted charging without the mount.)

viable? I think you'd be sacrificing efficiency for style, but that doesn't mean 'dont do it' it means 'go into this with your eyes open'.

Long story short, the game doesn't support what you are trying to do, but there are a few ways to make it happen with archetype choices and sub-optimal choices.

Best option. have the GM approve an existing one-handed weapon as a 'foot lance', use it's stats and 're-skin' the appearance to whatever you want. Might I suggest a trident.


To expand on MC Templar's thoughts the lance itself is kind of a terrible weapon off the mount. Even a humble longspear has a better crit rating.

So, really, just do the normal knight thing and pull a mace or pole arm if you have to dismount.

Shadow Lodge

I believe a Lance is a Polearm or Spear, so a 3rd level Phalanx Soldier can wield it in one hand with a shield in the other. It would be about as viable as most other Phalanx Soldier builds, as all you are really sacrificing is a damage die size and Brace/Trip, so I say go for it. Have fun!

Dark Archive

The transformative enchantment might help.

Quote:

Transformative

Price +10,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Weight —

This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons. A transformative weapon alters its shape at its wielder's command, becoming any other melee weapon of the same general shape and handedness; the weapon's categorization as simple, martial, or exotic is irrelevant. For example, a Medium transformative longsword can take the shape of any other Medium one-handed melee weapon, such as a scimitar, flail, or trident, but not a Medium light or two-handed melee weapon (such as a Medium short sword or a Medium greatsword). It can even take the shape of comparable weapons of different size categories. For example, a Small greatsword is a two-handed slashing weapon for a Small character, but is a one-handed slashing weapon for a Medium character, which is very similar to a Medium longsword; a Small transformative greatsword can thus become an actual Medium longsword, usable by a Medium creature without the –2 penalty for using a weapon of the wrong size. The weapon retains all of its abilities, including enhancement bonuses and weapon special abilities, except those prohibited by its current shape. For example, a keen transformative weapon functions normally in the form of a piercing or slashing weapon, but cannot use the keen special ability when in the shape of a bludgeoning weapon. When unattended, the weapon reverts to its true shape.

Construction Requirements

Cost +5,000 gp

Craft Magic Arms and Armor, major creation

10k might be pretty costly at first, but in the long term it's much cheaper than keeping multiple weapons, especially if you are a class with the ability to add enchantments on the fly like a Paladin.


Should a Centaur (or other "quadra-taur" races) be able to use a Lance "as if mounted"? I think that would be, at the very least, a thematically fitting matter of DM fiat.

Dark Archive

Natural Jouster (Combat)
Prerequisite: Centaur (or any tauric creature at the
GM’s discretion)
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the lance. You can
wield a lance one-handed as if you were mounted, and
you deal double damage with a lance while charging.


I always figured Centaurs and other 6 armed 4 legged creatures would get that automatic damage as if they were charging. Otherwise it kinda sucks to have those 4 hooves.


I suppose my best bet would be to refluff a normal polearm to use as a lance. I'm not wanting this character to be mounted but rather he is footsoldier/linebreaker. As of right now I'm considering either a halberd or trident for his weapon, with either a heavy shield or tower shield. I'm open to better options though for his spear or if there is a way to get charge-damage on the lance as mounted when on foot.


Double damage while charging isn't generally part of non-mounted combat. You could consider Vital Strike and Devastating Strike though honestly they're not very exciting. I'd probably consider Spring Attack with a reach weapon instead and rely on AoOs to get your damage back. I guess Lunge also might work pretty well against Medium foes.

There are a bunch of shield related feats. Maybe you'd be better off focusing on those and being a PC with super high AC who sets up in narrow spaces and holds the line, kind of like in 300. I guess you could stick to the heavy or light shield and consider using it as a weapon when people get inside the reach of your longspear. If you can afford to pick up Shield Slam you might be able to knock folks back into spear range or even far enough that they'll have to suffer another AoO to get at you. Once again Lunge could be useful.

If you think longspears are boring you could consider the fauchard, an exotic weapon which does 1d10 damage with an 18-20 crit range and can trip.

Shadow Lodge

Again, I recommend Phalanx Soldier, since you can wield polearms and spears like Lances and Glaives in one-hand while using a shield in the other, which seems like it fits your concept quite well. Can't get double-damage charge unless you are mounted however, unfortunately.


I'm definitely going to go with Phalanx Fighter for the character. I think a fauchard will be a good weapon for him and fits the idea of heavy damage when it hits home.

Would making him a Skirnir Magus be a good multiclass idea, using the shield to spell-combat those who get too close and spell-striking with the "lance".


Magus needs caster investment in order to be utilised properly. I would dip only 3 lvls in plalanx soldier, and then possibly continue with another martial class. This because phalanx soldier loses weapon training and replaces it with weaker options IMO.

If you do not want to have reach, consider dipping shield style guide skirmisher ranger for teh shield master feat.

If you want to have reach, I would seriously consider to stay in fighter up to lvl 11, so that I have fast access to the various maneuver feats and eventually qualify for pin down. These along with dazzling display will allow you to constrol the fieald around you.

For the later case you could also start with two lvls of titan mauler barbarian for being able to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand and then continue with aa fighetr archetype that retains its weapon training. Lore warden will give you great CMB bonuses to control the battlefield around you with maneuvers for example.

If you satrt as a fighter, you definately want to take whirlwind attack, so that you can hit everyone around you and aplly your debilitating effects (just damage at low lvls, but later can be combat maneuvers, daze and critican effects too). Lunge goes will with such tactic.


Dazzling Display plus Lunge with a Cruel weapon sounds like decent combo. You'd basically make enemies within 30 feet shaken and then hit those within 15 feet and make them sickened too.

Since the fauchard can trip it seems like Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, etc might be fun depending on what you're fighting.

You also might want to look at the quickdraw light shield so that you can more easily stow the shield to do bigger damage against foes you don't feel threatened by. I suppose that with the Quick Draw feat you could potentially even put the shield away as a free action when your full-attack begins and get it back out as a free action when your full-attack ends. You'd probably still want Phalanx Fighter 3 so you'd threaten with the fauchard one-handed while it isn't your turn. Some groups might find this kind of cheesy though. I find it tough to envision, but I guess maybe it could be explained as kind of like using a two-handed weapon with a buckler and losing the AC bonus (though in this case just for a moment while you attack)


Major_Blackhart wrote:
I always figured Centaurs and other 6 armed 4 legged creatures would get that automatic damage as if they were charging. Otherwise it kinda sucks to have those 4 hooves.

They used to, at least.

Quote:
A centaur employing a lance deals double damage when it charges, just as a rider on a mount does.

PF inexplicably left this out and replaced it with an additional nut shot:

Quote:
Undersized Weapons (Ex) Although a centaur is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size (Medium for most centaurs).

Centaurs counting as mounted seems like common sense. So PF either hates common sense, thought centaurs were overpowered, or both.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Major_Blackhart wrote:
I always figured Centaurs and other 6 armed 4 legged creatures would get that automatic damage as if they were charging. Otherwise it kinda sucks to have those 4 hooves.

They used to, at least.

Quote:
A centaur employing a lance deals double damage when it charges, just as a rider on a mount does.

PF inexplicably left this out and replaced it with an additional nut shot:

Quote:
Undersized Weapons (Ex) Although a centaur is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size (Medium for most centaurs).
Centaurs counting as mounted seems like common sense. So PF either hates common sense, thought centaurs were overpowered, or both.

Pathfinder hates melee characters. That's why they haven't made shock trooper or leap attack again and it's nearly impossible to get pounce anymore. They love spellcasters way to much and take away anything nice a mundane class could get.

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