Goblin Squad Member
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Would this help against the problems of settlements placing scout-alts all across the map and placing low-rep "monster"-alts (or gimp-squads as I call them)all over their controlled hexes for quick dispatch of unwanted elements?
Since this is a game where distance matters, this could make it much harder to call upon your Monsters in the Basement in order to put down trespassers or a gathering party. Before the Monsters would arrive, the gathering party could make a run for it: it would be up to the "offensive" party then to decide whether to chase them (take a hit to rep) or let them go.
It could also prevent the tactic of "camping" a player who quickly logged out when he saw an enemy party approaching, waiting for him to log back in. Off course a log-out timer would still apply (the usual 30 seconds or so). Also /quit will keep you vulnerable in the gameworld at least 30 seconds or more, you know, the usual stuff.
Some notes:
Nearest locations could be, allied PoIs and Outposts, Inns, your own settlement or allied settlement. Off course if you log out at one of those locations you would log back in there.
When you log out during a caravan voyage, you abandon your carts and lose them: I expect the voyages of caravans to be done in a single gamesession, or at least to go from friendly city to friendly city (or Inn). I expect the same for gathering parties.
When you log out there is a 30 minute timer before you get defaulted to the nearest friendly log-in location: this for those unfortunate LD's especially when you are in a caravan or was harvesting something good.
This also to prevent from the mechanic to be "gamed" to get across the map.
There's one tactic that I have not considered yet: that players will have "Monster" alts trailing their mains wherever they go, as boxes. I hope one of the Hawks will fill me in on this. :)
I also want to say beforehand that I am very sorry to propose another mechanic that may ruin the sandbox. ;) Also, I remember a game that defaulted your log in to a safe location, I think it was a MMO, anyone knwo if this mechanic has been used before?
This is the sort of plan that usually has some huge oversights: please let me hear them. Personally I am not a fan of not logging in where you logged out, just wondering how big of a problem all these alts scattered across the world are going to be.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While deep in the wild lands I discovered a treasure chest filled with diamonds and rubies. I quickly put them in my pockets, log off, log back in and safely bring them to market for sale.
Therein lies the problem. It is not fast travel, it is insta-travel. Free of risk, free of cost and it saves time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While deep in the wild lands I discovered a treasure chest filled with diamonds and rubies. I quickly put them in my pockets, log off, log back in and safely bring them to market for sale.
Therein lies the problem. It is not fast travel, it is insta-travel. Free of risk, free of cost and it saves time.
Well, that is what the 30-minute timer is for: only after you will have been logged out for 30 minutes, will you default to a friendly login location. Before that you will simply log in at the spot where you were.
However it could indeed be used as a tactic when you are at the end of your gaming-session anyway: gather diamonds, log out, log back in next day in safe location. However, this may not necessarily be the location where you want to be.
Still a very valid point that would indeed kill a lot of fun gameplay.
How about there's a 50% chance you get defaulted to an enemy location? :) That would certainly be an incentive to just haul the goods the old-fashioned way.
Or let it not default to a friendly location but rather a set location in the Hex: needless to say this would be a dangerous location since that is where all the Monster and scout-alts would be parked too....
so it would certainly be the type of location that you want to stay far from as an explorer/trespasser.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What they could do is have a 30 second timer on log out where you are still present in the game world. Then there is a 30 second timer when you log in, where you are: invulnerable, stealthed and incapable of attacking or communicating in chat.
* The timer can be modified if discovered to be too long or short
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Goblin Squad Member
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My first guess would be that logging off safely and resurrection points are limited resources in a virtual world map?
Therefore, if that is the rationale, then players planning would dictate part of their successful game session would be to end it via one of these means (preferrably log-out safely - eg the Matrix) (eg an Inn) and less successfully their own nearest resurrection point (standing stone).
Perhaps some sort of timer for logging out unsafely is the risk you take otherwise (eg interruption or diconnection)?
Not sure if characters should then be displaced in time (same spot) or space (different spot) upon logging back in? It's a good question OP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I realize the mechanic I am throwing out here is pretty draconic and I am not set on it myself.
I came to it because I am wondering what kind of role "throw-away Alts" are going to play in this Game of Settlements, where PvP, real-time intel and location play such a large role.
I am pretty sure a group where for instance Steelwing belongs too, will easily have 5000 alts at the ready (500 members x 2 accounts average x 6 characters per account)for specific purposes. Mostly scouts and low-rep alts for "low-rep" purposes.
I remember Ryan saying somewhere that certain people, with the will to do so, could create a setup where hunderds of clients are logged into the game with the sole purpose of surveying the area, and that this would be very hard to track down.
There could be other measures: I think it is still up in the air wether you can actually log in a character that is not currently accumulating XP, i.e. is costing the player money. Also, how easily and quickly you can turn on/off the "xp-knob" would be of influence on the usefulness of these alts.
When alts are cheap and readily available for login anywhere in the world I can see some problems.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm assuming that a game system can detect when you log out and when your system / connection crashed?
To me there is a difference and this could be taken into account by GW, if anything unfortunate happens while you are stuck during a disconnect / crash.
@Bludd, as far as I know there's no possible way to detect the difference between a legitimate game crash/disconnect and you pulling the plug on your computer/router or ending the processes on the game and forcing it to crash. Though you could know the difference between a log-out or game crash, people can still do an intentional game crash, and thus avoid the logout timer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Getting back to the topic, if characters are allowed to log in where they logged out, I can see how a dedicated Alliance could start to park squads of Alts in Enemy hexes at strategic locations, "for later use". For instance when a siege is going on.
All of a sudden, an entire new squad appears on the battlefield.
But maybe GW is planning it so you can not log back into an Enemy Hex if you logged out there. Not sure if the game would be able to track all that though.
I can see a LOT of (cheesy?) uses for Alt-quadrons in PFO, not just for some low-rep PvP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another couple issues with logging in at the nearest 'friendly' point:
If you are a solo no-good-nik you are not going to want to trek across the map from an NPC city (your only friendly point) to your preferred hunting grounds every. single. time.
If you are a scout operating deep within enemy territory and those 3 burritos with extra jalapenos you had for dinner decide to make a break for it, or your 3 year old decides the cat needs a bath (in the toilet), you really don't want to spend another 4 hours sneaking past guards and around patrols just to get back to your position.
Instant travel with your hard-earned loot, as Bludd pointed out, is a bad thing. Most folks start their adventuring or gathering with an empty bag, not a full one.
Login traps are a staple for PVP MMOs. One idea to help mitigate them would be a black screen fade-in on login where you are invulnerable but cannot move, giving folks around you time to respond to your presence.
Logoffski is likewise a bad thing if it allows you to completely avoid loss. This can be addressed in a couple parts. First, if you are not aggressed, then you can 'jump into the bushes', becoming invisible to anyone except those specifically skilled and equipped to track. You remain in-game for 1 minute or so before the character is removed from play. A 'Safe Logoff' option can also be given, initiating a 2 minute timer, at the end of which you log off and the character is removed as long as you are not in a combat situation (having given or received damage or used an aggressive or defensive ability within the past 5 minutes). If you are flagged for aggression, you 'jump into the bushes' 1 minute after your connection is severed, but the character remains in-game and discoverable for 15 minutes
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Goblin Squad Member
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Good points. The system would be very restricting for NPC-city bound characters. However these would mostly be lowbies that probably have no business trekking deep into the lands. The idea is that you join a settlement as soon as possible.
As for the emergencies: there would be a 30 minute timer before your login-point gets defaulted to the nearest friendly location so if you can do your urgent business within that timeframe you are still good to go and will log in where you logged out. I agree though that it is a limitation that could be annoying if you can not login anymore for that session.
The instant travel thing is definately something that could ruin other game-systems. The 30 minute timer would help with this, since you would have to wait that long before you get defaulted to a safe login location.
The idea is that travel takes time and I think it will never take much longer then that to make "hops" from one relatively safe location to another: could be completely wrong here. However, travel is also supposed to be dangerous and that is indeed negated with my proposed mechanism. However, you may be at a safe location, but not the location you actually want to be: you may still have to haul your bag of diamonds across dangerous terrain if you for instance defaulted to an Inn or some. I do not have a good idea at which locations you can safely deposit your goods but I agree that this could be a serious problem of this mechanic.
How about my idea of a set location in every Hex where people get to log back in after 30 minutes of being logged out? That would solve the "instant travel to safe location" problem. Or that there is a 50% chance of defaulting to an enemy login location? I guess this would fall under the "being randomly punished is not fun" credo though. Which I agree with.
There may be easier ways to prevent thousands of Alts to be placed strategically everywhere. Unless this would be something that is working as intended. Not sure how many people would find it fun to have to care for a stable of hardly-used utility Alts though, if this becomes a requirement for staying competitive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A set location in a hex would not work, too ripe for abuse. Anyone who wants an easy kill would camp there. A chance to default back to an enemy location is ungood. Random punishment and all that.
30 minute timer still does not address the issue of somebody who WANTS to log off in the wilderness, be it for 1 hour or 1 week.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree it would be restrictive for players who would simply want to log their main where they are so they can start playing from there the next session. To be honest, that is what I would want too.
I don't know, the whole Alt-thing might actually add another layer to the gameplay. I can see rumors like "I have seen a lot of players log out into the hex right next to our Settlements hex in the past few weeks, I wonder what's up". Better guard that area because an Alt-squad may pop up when the siege is finally going down. A bit like "stealth-troops". How about Alt-squads parked on roads so they can just pop up and ambush caravans?
I feel that *because* travel is not instantaneous, and also dangerous, that parking Alts at strategic places is going to play a role in this game. People talk a lot about "player Guard patrols": how viable is that when Hexes are so big? Sounds a bit boring to have to patrol a hex for 3 hours. I would rather expect them to put one fast Scout to the task, who then spots an enemy/trespasser so he can "activate"(through teamspeak) the nearest parked Alt-squad if need be. Same for attacking a caravan or intercepting a raid party on your PoI.
I think Alt-squads parked near PoI's and outposts are going to be a big thing anyway. And not only near the ones that you own...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like the idea of coming back into the game where I logged out, I know a few others have mentioned timer, my thoughts on that..
If there is a timer at I think it should be a 48 hour timer, after that amount of time you are sent to your settlement. In combination with this you have to log into a character for 15 min in order to keep from being sent to your settlement( basically restarts that 48 hour timer).
Basically you have to come back to where you were if you are playing the game regularly (no easy travel home every night no free passes back to civilization to sell your stuff without giving up 48 hours.) The easy travel mode is my concern, it will mean folks go everywhere with mules and load em up and log em out for a 2 days.
As for the min 15 play time in 48 hours , that is to keep people from just parking alt in enemy space and logging him in every other day for 30 seconds to keep him there. If you want to use that tactic, better be prepared to dedicate some time to staying in that area and not getting caught..
Logging out should take 30 seconds and is something that can be interrupted ( like harvesting, looting or other actions that can be interrupted)
Link death should drop you from the server after at least 1 min (to keep people from purposely killing game connections to keep from dying)
As always just my thoughts
Just wanting to clarify, I dont think we should have a timer option, but if folks are really looking into one i feel that timer should be days not hours..
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Goblin Squad Member
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Two of the four pillars of the game are adventuring and exploring. Teleporting on log-in shreds half of the design pillars into little bitty strips of gerbil cage filler. And it doesn't make in-character sense.
With as dangerous as the world is, I don't want to spend two hours sneaking past every friggin NBSI town, gold hungry ambush camp and bloodthirsty wandering psychopath to get four hexes over with 15 minutes of exploration and adventure where I wanted to go before I log out and get mystically transported away. I made it there alive now I want to spend as long as I like exploring and adventuring over as many play sessions as it takes; not have to restart from four hexes over again just because I'm not into 16-hour explorathons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Im for allow people to log out where every they want, Minus actually inside some other person's settlement (however you can in their territory).
I also dont mind the log out and your character stays in for 15-20 seconds before it logs out as a method of encouraging people to log off not in enemy territory.
I do think that even a 30 minute timer can be abused rather easily. People can run alts to avoid losing productivity during that down time.
So i gather way on the other side of the map, I log out. I log in another character and run do the same thing for 30 minutes, log out, log in first character...etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I prefer that no travel happens while logged off. You log back in where you logged. If you happen to be in hostile territory when you logged out then there's a good chance it's going to be dangerous when you log back in. If you want to log out in any kind of safety you should have to find a good location for that.
Of course DC's happen but it shouldn't be much hassle to log right back in and continue doing what you were doing.