Caster Sorc / Dragon Disciple Build for Kingmaker

[bluedove]

I have the privilege of running in really fun, story-rich Kingmaker campaign with a great group of players and GM. I tend to have a more "who are they?" sort of approach when I build a character, and as a result, they are rarely optimized. For the most part, I'm ok with that.

I built Seraphina to be an effective sorceress and then later decided I wanted to see her go Dragon Disciple, as well. Upon looking over Oterisk's guide and some of the advice on builds here, I'm concerned she won't be able to pull her weight in combat as is.

I may be able to shift the ability stats some if the GM agrees... But the majority seems to go with the higher Str, more melee focused build and I'm really going for more the "Puff the Magic Dragon" idea, strong Caster/Blaster/Buffer who can also whip out her claws and shred if an enemy closes on her. We have a wizard in the group, so she isn't the only arcane caster, but she doesn't have the AC to just wade into melee yet. We don't really have a tank, 1 Dex based fighter, 1 Knife Master Rogue, 1 Cleric/Paladin, 1 Wizard and then me.

So how should a caster focused DD build look? I think it might be wise to switch the 14 on Dex to Str, but then I worry I'll miss the bonus to my ranged touch attacks, especially since she's Copper lineage and the Acid spells are often ranged touch. And if I switch to melee touch attacks, I'm back to wading into melee without the necessary AC. She's going up to level 3, so she will finally have her Mage Armor, but I'd hate to think that's enough and be dead wrong!

Feats are another thing I'm really unsure of. Combat casting sure seemed necessary, in theory, but then I've had it all along and it's gotten zero use. Did I take it too early? I'm awful at long-term planning and even though there is a lot of info on the right feats to take, I can't seem to get a handle on the order you take them. Help?
I do have a story feat from my GM that I intend to take, just not sure if now is the time or not:
Bloodline Awakening
You've made a startling discovery about your heritage.
Earned from: Learning about the source of your power
Available to: Seraphina
Benefit: You may use the claws granted by your bloodline at will, instead of a number of rounds/day. In addition, add +1 to the DC to resist your bloodline spells and spells with the energy descriptor of your bloodline's type.

Her high Cha really must stay though, as she's the only one in our group with high Cha for the Leader role. Sera's not power-hungry, but her player has dreams of seeing her become "Our Lady of the Shining Scales, Queen of the Salvaged Lands." ^_^

Current build, Sorceress Level 2:

Strength.........11
Dexterity........14
Constitution...12
Intelligence....12
Wisdom..........10
Charisma........18

Seraphina Medvyed
Female Human Sorcerer 2
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +4,

DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, )
hp 14 (2d6)+5 (+2 Con,)
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +3 (+4 vs Fey)

OFFENSE
--------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee claw +1/+1 (1d4)
Ranged sling +3 (1d4)
Melee dagger +1 (1d4/19-20)
Ranged dagger (thrown) +3 (1d4/19-20)
Known Sorcerer Spells [CL 2nd, concentration +6 (+10 when grappled or casting defensively ]:
1st (5/day) - color spray (DC 15) , vanish (DC 15)
0th (at will) - acid splash , daze (DC 14) , detect magic , light , mage hand , prestidigitation (DC 14)

STATISTICS
--------------------------------------------------------
Str 11, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 18
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Magical Aptitude, Simple Weapon Proficiency,
Traits Ease of Faith, Noble Born (Medvyen)
Skills Acrobatics +2, Appraise +1, Bluff +8, Climb +0, Craft (Untrained) +1, Diplomacy +9 (+11 vs Fey), Disguise +4, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Perception +4, Perform (Untrained) +4, Ride +2, Spellcraft +8, Stealth +2, Swim +0, Use Magic Device +10,
Languages Common, Sylvan
SQ Bloodline Arcana, Bonus Feat, Bonus Sorcerer Spell (2x), Cantrips, Claws, Draconic Bloodline (Copper), Skilled,
Gear Wearing:[outfit (traveler's); belt pouch [Acid (Flask); Alchemist's Fire (Flask); ); Tindertwig (x3); Vial (x3)] bullets, sling (10); dagger; signet ring; waterskin (filled); Sling; Case (Map or Scroll)]
Backpack(carried):[Bedroll; Bell; Blanket (Winter); Candle (x5); Chalk (1 Piece) (x5); Fishhook; Flint and Steel; Ink (1 oz. Vial); Inkpen; Parchment (Sheet) (x5); Sewing Needle; String (50 ft.) (x2); Rations (Trail/Per Day) (x5); Rice Paper, Sheet (x5); Sack; Waterskin;] Cold Weather Outfit, Bracers of Armor +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Light Crossbow, 18 bolts.
Gold: 3 gp, 7 sp, 3 cp

SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------------------------------------------
Bloodline Arcana Whenever you cast a spell with the acid descriptor, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.
Bonus Feat Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.
Bonus Sorcerer Spell (2x) Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast.
Cantrips You learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells. These spells are cast like any other spells, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Claws (Su) You can grow claws as a free action. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus. This is a supernatural ability. You can use your claws 7 rounds per day.
Draconic Bloodline (Copper) At some point in your family's history, a dragon interbred with your bloodline, and now its ancient power flows through your veins.
Ease of Faith Your mentor, the person who invested your faith (in this case, Sera's father) in you from an early age, took steps to ensure that you understood that what powers your divine magic is no different than that which powers the magic of other religions. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Diplomacy checks, and Diplomacy is always a class skill for you.
Noble Born (Medvyen) You claim a tangential but legitimate connection to one of Brevoy’s noble families. You’ve had a comfortable life, but one far from the dignity and decadence your distant cousins know.
Although you are associated with an esteemed name, your immediate family is hardly well to do, and you’ve found your name to be more of a burden to you than a boon in many social situations. You’ve recently decided to test yourself, to see if you can face the world without the aegis of a name you have little real claim or care for. An expedition into the storied Stolen Lands seems like just the test to see if you really are worth the title “noble.”
Medvyed: Your family has long a deep respect for the wilderness and is superstitious about the creatures that dwell therein. You gain a +2 trait bonus on all Diplomacy checks made to deal with fey creatures and a +1 trait bonus on Will saves made against their spells and supernatural abilities. Your family motto is “Endurance Overcomes All.”
Skilled: Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.

[bigrig107]

Don't have much advice on a caster DD, but is the wizard going blaster/evocation?

And is that feat homebrew? Because if not, I know several dragon disciples of mine who will be taking it.

Wait...how does that interact with Dragon Bite? Do you always have a bite?

[bluedove]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's a custom made home-brew feat, but from what I understand it's a pretty common one for a GM to offer. The claws at will part, anyway.

I think some races have special traits to start with a bite attack, but Sera won't get one until her 2nd level of Dragon Disciple, which is four levels away still, so I'm not sure.

[Red Ramage]

Hey there, the GM in question reporting in. Yes, that's a homebrew. I've never been happy with rounds/day claws. It would imply always having a bite as well.

[RuyanVe]

Hm. With a 20 point-buy and staying focused on ranged touch attack it's going to be tough. Also, I don't see what you want to gain from taking levels in DD.

With your story-based approach you should be equally happy staying sorc all the way as the mechanical benefits (and disadvantages) from DD shouldn't matter too much to you.

Dex-based DD do not work in my experience; see also "The archer DD" in Oterisk's guide.
Btw, are you sure you have THAT many ranged touch spells?

Rearranging for a more "traditional" DD would give something like:
Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 16

Floating stat bonus goes into Cha as do all level increases.

Your AC will never be stellar. Between mage armor, shield and your NA from sorc and DD and Dex it's going to be in the mid-20s.
Grab a longspear and use reach for your advantage if the need arises. But your main focus will be spells.

For feats: Never can go wrong with Toughness and Imp. Initiative, IMO.
Combat Casting is important, too, as there'll be always situations where succeeding in casting (defensively!!) is of utmost importance.

Ruyan.

[Zwordsman]

Well I dunno what your stats are right now..
but you want to be almost always blasty, but more durable and if needed claw and bites? You get a little str bonus from D.Dis so you could just let that be the only str bonus, which will help melee touch and claws, while keeping your dex for youre more often used ranged touc hattacks and a little AC.

I'd just keep the stats. Your really just getting DD in order to be a lot less fragile and give you a little melee flair when it comes up right? You can't be as durable as a fighter or paladin while keeping ability to blast well.

This looks very similar (sans that great home feat) to my favorite character. even the acid line. I wasn't as durable as the fighter-no where near in fact, but I was a decent secondary meat bag to cover for our wizard (not a blaster more of a god/utility type). I never played to high levels so I don't know how that went.. but with shield and mage armor with a bit of Dex i was ok. Once the miss% spells came online it made it a bit easier when I had to. the main issue was how much buffing time it required.

In the end I lost a bit of spell lv/known but I was so much harder to kill which was simply great in the kind of game we played.

So I didn't take it for the normal reasons of DD--mauling ability, I just took it for more survivablity. stat boosts help me live, carry weight, hp, little boosts in saves. I still focused on upping ChA as much as I could, (booya dragon breath) but eventually looked int oa dex/con belt.
My melee to hit was never that great but it was mostly for mooks or finishing off (and one time when we were tied up). I suppose if I grabbed weapon fineese my to hit would've been a load better but i had better uses for the feat.

In the end, why are you taking DD? For melee ability? (priortize str over dex) or to make a durable caster? (dex/con over str.)I had one built that was starting at high enough level to picik up a little bit of str bonus from the D.Dis. I lowered Str and raised other stuff with the points since that character was an evolved better made version of my first attempt. Solidly caster just more durable than one would expect.
Mind you playing up to that level woulda sucked with 8str.. (i hate negative points)

[bigrig107]

Red Ramage wrote:

Hey there, the GM in question reporting in. Yes, that's a homebrew. I've never been happy with rounds/day claws. It would imply always having a bite as well.

Man, I had hoped that was a Paizo feat. You, sir, are an awesome DM. Rock on.

[Corlindale]

With my current Dragon Disciple I've chosen to prioritize strength over charisma, even though I intend to play him as a hybrid caster/melee. The logic is that if I buff Cha and skip Strength I won't be able to melee succesfully against bigger enemies at all(especially given relatively poor BAB), but if I buff strength and "skip" Cha (of course making sure I can meet minimum spell requirements) I can still be a fine spellcaster when I use spells that do not allow saving throws.

But if your plan is to be the magic dragon it's probably sensible enough to focus on Cha. My only worry is that it feels like many of the class features (like str boost and bite) are wasted if you don't play the melee aspect a little. Thus I wanted to be able to do both.

[bigrig107]

With the current kobold oracle dragon disciple I'm working on, he doesn't even plan on worrying about saving throws.
He's going to go Str and Dex high, and use the interesting self-belfs that the cleric list allows.
Should be interesting.

[Imbicatus]

Righteous Might and Divine Favor would be nice to help overcome the penalty to STR that Kobolds have, and would be enough to make a a Beast DD competitive. Also, since Righteous Might isn't a polymorh spell, it would stack with Form of the Dragon.

[bigrig107]

Seeing as how there isn't really anything class feature wise gained at oracle 5, and I'm starting him at 6th level, I gave him a level of barbarian, and Extra Rage. This gets him 12 rounds per day of a +4 Str and Con morale bonus, which stacks with divine favor and righteous might.

I think the cleric spell list is well-suited to a melee-oriented Dragon Disciple. Now, if there was only another way to get their spell progression other than taking a -4 to strength and a feat, or two feats and be human.