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I've seen (in another thread) that there are GMs and venture officers using their stars to ensure that a table at an event or convention fires. Is this actually required?
If I were to sit at a table that was playing a scenario that I've already received credit for, and the GM approved my doing so, would it matter if I were playing for credit or not? I still get a chronicle sheet (with a bunch of Xs through the good bits) my character can still die. I could still be the 3rd player that makes the table go off, right?
If my girlfriend and I both play a table not for credit, would we be required to have 5 players total (the two of us and 3 that were playing for credit)?
Edit to add: This isn't at all to criticize anyone's decision to use stars fo ensure a tacle fires. Burning a limited resource to help others have fun is a choice I have nothing but respect for.
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If you sit for a scenario that you have played or GMed already, your only obligations are (1) you let the GM know that you are familiar with the scenario (she may ask you to sit out if she is uncomfortable with a player who has played the scenario previously), and (2) you do your best to not spoil anything for the other players at the table.
You may burn your star to get credit, or you may sit for no credit.
You may play your own character, or you may play a pre-gen of the appropriate level.
A table is legal if there are between 4 and 6 players (3 and 7 are acceptable under certain conditions). If the table has one person who has never played the scenario before and three who have played it before, that is okay but probably not optimal; consider running another scenario instead.
It should also be noted that the Guide allows you to replay a scenario just for fun (no credit) even if the table would be legal without you there (provided the GM is comfortable with you at the table).
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Premades are definitely the way to go for these. Helps out the other players make a legal table and doesn't risk your own characters for nothing.
Yea, in these situaitons I use a pregen of a class I was thinking of giving a go, basically it lets you test drive classes if your playing again for no credit. It can be a lot of fun.
KILLRA.
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I've actually got a fist full of scenarios I'd like to play through again with more appropriate PCs. I'm also more than willing to hop on a table and play a pre-gen to make sure some other folks get a gaming experience. I don't really see any reason to not play my own character, either. They've usually got a better personality (and a few less people cracking wise about them), or at least a more interesting story from my perspective.
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Premades are definitely the way to go for these. Helps out the other players make a legal table and doesn't risk your own characters for nothing.
Yea, in these situaitons I use a pregen of a class I was thinking of giving a go, basically it lets you test drive classes if your playing again for no credit. It can be a lot of fun.KILLRA.
Do not mistakenly call Killra, her sisters name, Kyra. The consequences could be...bad.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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A note of confusion here.
Can a player replay (for no credit) a scenario if it already has enough players to make it a legal table? Can someone replay as the fifth or sixth character at the table, for no credit?
Over and over again?
I had undertood that the answer was "No." Smart people have asserted that it's okay. (Or that it's up to the GM, which strikes me as odd...)
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Can a player replay (for no credit) a scenario if it already has enough players to make it a legal table? Can someone replay as the fifth or sixth character at the table, for no credit?
Over and over again?
Yes.
Since the language in the Guide has evolved over time with the actual changes in the rules (used to be "No"), it's not quite as clear as it could be. Mostly the rules talk about why you'd do it.
Essentially, you can replay (for 0 xp/pp/gp) as often as a GM accepts you at their table. And play a different character of course.
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Can a player replay (for no credit) a scenario if it already has enough players to make it a legal table? Can someone replay as the fifth or sixth character at the table, for no credit?
p20 of the Guide v5, paraphrased.
You can replay a scenario, if the GM allows you to. If the table would already have been legal, you receive nothing. If you make the table legal by playing, you receive a chronicle for zero everything, the sole purpose of which is to show that it was a legal table and for you to mark off consumables.
It's the second bullet under 'Replaying Scenarios'.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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So if you have a scenario that one person has not played, and the DM really wants it to be done for that player, up to five (or six for a seven player table) other players can replay it for no credit, three of which need to except a chronicle for zero everything. (Or all of them if wanted)
I imagine that the main crew of Paizo has played every scenario at least five times...
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Sorry for the slightly old post, but what happens to your items/expendables if you are replaying a scenario with a table that was already legal and not receiving a Chronicle Sheet? Is your character still risking death by replaying? Does the GM still mark your PFS ID for the Event for your Character, despite not receiving a Chronicle Sheet?
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Can a player replay (for no credit) a scenario if it already has enough players to make it a legal table? Can someone replay as the fifth or sixth character at the table, for no credit?p20 of the Guide v5, paraphrased.
You can replay a scenario, if the GM allows you to. If the table would already have been legal, you receive nothing. If you make the table legal by playing, you receive a chronicle for zero everything, the sole purpose of which is to show that it was a legal table and for you to mark off consumables.
It's the second bullet under 'Replaying Scenarios'.
times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to replay a
scenario in order to meet the minimum legal table size (see
Chapter 7), but once you have reached that limit, you do not
earn any additional rewards beyond having a good time. A
player replaying a scenario in order for the table to reach
the minium table size should (in this instance only) be
given a Chronicle for the scenario, though marked to earn
0 Gold, 0 Fame, 0 XP; it does not allow the character to
make a ‘Day Job’ check, no boons, item access, or anything
else appearing on the Chronicle might provide for having
played the scenario. This Chronicle only serves as a
placeholder to indicate the character participated in the
adventure, and gives a place for consumables, purchases,
and conditions to be tracked from playing through the
adventure. This is the only exception to not having two of
the same Chronicle assigned to one character.
in order to meet the minimum legal table size - seems to indicate that you can't just do this for fun.
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You can replay a scenario, if the GM allows you to. If the table would already have been legal, you receive nothing. If you make the table legal by playing, you receive a chronicle for zero everything, the sole purpose of which is to show that it was a legal table and for you to mark off consumablesin order to meet the minimum legal table size - seems to indicate that you can't just do this for fun.
The rule says (my addition in brackets, and emphasis added): "You are free to replay a scenario in order to meet the minimum legal table size (see Chapter 7), but once you have reached the limit [of 1 player Chronicle and 1 GM Chronicle for the same scenario], you do not earn any additional rewards beyond having a good time."
You can replay scenarios for fun.
The rules section for Replaying Scenarios is the most confusing in the entire guide. Even more confusing than the discussion of gear purchases. One rule from the gear purchasing section states, "A character’s Fame score determines the maximum gp value of any items she can purchase from her faction, as detailed in Table 5–3 below." I took this to refer to special faction items purchased from the faction, but it actually means all items.
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If you have already played a scenario and wish to replay it for any reason, you must inform the GM that you have already played the scenario. Some GMs may not be comfortable running an adventure for players who have foreknowledge of what is to come. If your GM is not comfortable with you replaying a scenario, you must find another GM who is. GMs have the right to deny players the opportunity to replay a scenario for any reason, but all GMs are encouraged to be as flexible as possible when replay is the only option that allows them to seat the minimum legal number of players at a game table.
So, if you want to replay for any reason, you must inform your GM. Your GM can say no for any reason, but if you're needed to make the table go off they are encouraged to say yes.
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The confusion comes from the earlier Replay section which says
You are free to replay a scenario in order to meet the minimum legal table size (see Chapter 7),
Is this a limit, meaning you can only replay a scenario to meet a legal table. (Surely isn't doesn't mean the GM can't say no if you're replaying to make a legal table), as the very next paragraph specifically empowers GMs to say no for any reason.
So, is this sentence basically in error and therefore meaningless or does it limit replay to providing minimum table size?
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There is also the oddity of :
A player replaying a scenario in order for the table to reach the minium table size should (in this instance only) be given a Chronicle for the scenario
Which means if we allow people to replay for no credit in cases where we don't need their presence, we don't give them chronicle sheets. How do we track their notes, conditions gained etc?
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I am of the opinion that only replay to make a minimum table is legal, but I also think the guide is unclear enough that I wouldn't feel confident telling somebody with the opposite opinion is wrong.
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There is also the oddity of :
A player replaying a scenario in order for the table to reach the minimum table size should (in this instance only) be given a Chronicle for the scenarioWhich means if we allow people to replay for no credit in cases where we don't need their presence, we don't give them chronicle sheets. How do we track their notes, conditions gained etc?
This is basically my question. It says you only get a Chronicle if you're making the table legal, which means you don't get a Chronicle otherwise. Are you only allowed to play with pre-gen characters in this circumstance since you won't be receiving a Chronicle Sheet? If you can use your own PFS character, then how can you track expendables, is your character risking death, and does the GM report your PFS ID on his sheets having the event track with your Character? It doesn't make sense.
@Pirate Rob I do think you can play even if you're not making the table legal, because the Rule says, "A player replaying a scenario in order for the table to reach the minimum table size should (in this instance only) be given a Chronicle for the scenario [...]". If you only ever could replay scenarios to make the table legal, then the Rules wouldn't specify "in this instance only". Or at least I don't think they would...
In any case, the sentence "If you have already played a scenario and wish to replay it for any reason, you must inform the GM that you have already played the scenario." should be changed to read "If you are replaying a scenario, you must inform the GM that you have already played the scenario." The current sentence is verbose and doesn't clarify anything and the change is more concise. The word minimum is misspelled "minium" on the page.
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Some people who had a hand in the text for version 5.0 (the second one) of the PFS Guide, believe (incorrectly IMO) you may only replay in order to make a legal table. Others who worked on the Guide believe replay is allowed as long as it is okay with your GM.
The current text in the Guide reflects both of these mindsets. I am almost certain that there has been, will be, or currently is a discussion going on amongst the VOs, Mike and John about this. I will be surprised if this text isn't cleaned up for the next release of the Guide for GenCon in a few months.
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As many people understand it: Replay is allowed, for no credit.
If you are replaying to make a legal table, you should get a null chronicle for it.
If you are not replaying to make a minimum legal table, you don't receive a null chronicle for it.
A GM can always refuse to allow someone to replay a scenario for any reason.
Okay, from my common sense POV:
You can replay a scenario, for no credit, as long as the GM and other players are okay with it. You should do your best to avoid metagaming or using prior knowledge.
If you replay using a pregen, there should be no need to give you a chronicle for the game, as there should be no effects to any of your regular PCs for doing so.
If you replay using one of your regular PCs, you should receive a null chronicle, so you (or the GM) can annotate any expenditures your PC had for the game, like the use of consumables, purchasing new gear (or spending PP for an item), or, worst case scenario, your PC died permanently during the game.
This ignores the effects of someone burning a GM Star to replay for credit, since he should receive a normal chronicle for the scenario, in that case. And, IMO, he should be playing with a real PC, as well.
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It is clearly not encouraged since you can play with 3 players and a Generic NPC.
The rules seem to encourage it to me: "GMs have the right to deny players the opportunity to replay a scenario for any reason, but all GMs are encouraged to be as flexible as possible when replay is the only option that allows them to seat the minimum legal number of players at a game table."
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Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
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How do you govern this?
I mean sure an honest person will be up front, but I have someone I see often who never lets the GM know he's replaying a scenario (so he can get a cert without Xs). This guy in particular was in one adventure that I ran, then 6 months later when my brother ran it he was there with a different character, and talking to another GM afterwards that gm also ran him through the same adventure. I think that he thinks it doesn't count if he rage quits when his character dies and he leaves the store before getting a cert.
Also, "to meet the minimum legal table size"................sorry I was laughing so hard I was crying there. Routinely, due to a lack of people stepping forward to GM, I have 6-7 players at my table. Every time I prep I print off 8 certs. Only once did I have the minimum table size and that was because I was running Devil We Know part 3.
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I am of the opinion that you arent supposed to be able to replay without using stars unless it is to help make the table.
If the guide is vague on that now, so be it.
However, regardless of if you are helping to make the table or are player 5 or 6, you should still be receiving a null chronicle for it. Any expendables you used are still consumed and if you die you are still dead. That kind of stuff has to be recorded somewhere.
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I am of the opinion that you arent supposed to be able to replay without using stars unless it is to help make the table.
If the guide is vague on that now, so be it.
However, regardless of if you are helping to make the table or are player 5 or 6, you should still be receiving a null chronicle for it. Any expendables you used are still consumed and if you die you are still dead. That kind of stuff has to be recorded somewhere.
Would you still get a null chronicle if you are using a pregen to replay?
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Would you still get a null chronicle if you are using a pregen to replay?I am of the opinion that you arent supposed to be able to replay without using stars unless it is to help make the table.
If the guide is vague on that now, so be it.
However, regardless of if you are helping to make the table or are player 5 or 6, you should still be receiving a null chronicle for it. Any expendables you used are still consumed and if you die you are still dead. That kind of stuff has to be recorded somewhere.
Yes. If the pregen dies, I would be fine with just marking down an unused number for the player instead of a character they are already using (like you are supposed to do when normally using a pregen), but if the pregen gets a disease and has to pay to get it fixed or something, that is gold that will come out of the pocket of the character it gets applied to.
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I am of the opinion that you arent supposed to be able to replay without using stars unless it is to help make the table.
If the guide is vague on that now, so be it.
However, regardless of if you are helping to make the table or are player 5 or 6, you should still be receiving a null chronicle for it. Any expendables you used are still consumed and if you die you are still dead. That kind of stuff has to be recorded somewhere.
Seth, it may have been the intent of the author that all non-credit replayers get a null chronicle, but the text in the Guide (as indicated by Pirate Rob above) does not read that way:
Guide wrote:
A player replaying a scenario in order for the table to reach the minium table size should (in this instance only) be given a Chronicle for the scenario
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Fascinating Don,I did not know that.
Now that being said, I ran an Amiri as "close combat support" for a table of newbies who were all casters. I don't normally play combat types, so it was funny to run into combat, "raging, power attacking, 'AMIRI SMASH STUPID ROCK MAN!'" for a change :-) I was the fifth man but everyone had fun.
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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How do you govern this?
I mean sure an honest person will be up front, but I have someone I see often who never lets the GM know he's replaying a scenario (so he can get a cert without Xs). This guy in particular was in one adventure that I ran, then 6 months later when my brother ran it he was there with a different character, and talking to another GM afterwards that gm also ran him through the same adventure. I think that he thinks it doesn't count if he rage quits when his character dies and he leaves the store before getting a cert.
If the same person is playing the same scenario and receiving credit, and the sessions are being reported properly, either local coordinators are ignoring what is happening or the player has several numbers (which means he also has several accounts here which is against the TOS).
Please bring this to the attention of your local VO.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The intention is that you can only replay when a table needs to be made legal, as well as for GM star replay. I agree the language in the Guide does need to be cleaned up.
Now I'm confused.
Let me try to do the yes/know questions.
You can Re-GM for no credit (but for raising your body, er, star count)?
You can Re-GM for credit by burning a star?
You can Replay for credit if it makes a legal table?
You cannot replay at an already legal table 'for fun' without burning a star? (Excluding 'evergreens' of course.)
Thanks for answering on a weekend :-)
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 14 people marked this as a favorite. |
You can GM anytime, whether you receive character credit or not. You receive credit once for a PC from GM credit. You can elect to take a second GM credit from GM star ranking. You can also choose instead to use that GM star credit to replay a scenario for credit. You get one replay credit per GM star you have earned. In my case, it would be five replays for credit. In your case, it would currently be three replays for credit.
You can replay to make a table legal but you do not receive "credit" for that replay, unless it is a GM star replay. If you do replay a scenario to make a table legal, you receive what people refer to as a "null" Chronicle to record expended consumables. You do not receive any XP, PP, GP, etc... for a replay unless it is a GM star credit replay.
You cannot replay a scenario at an already legal table at a sanctioned event just for fun without burning a GM star, unless it is one of the evergreen scenarios that allow unlimited replay. So, if there are already 4 or more players at the table, you can not join in to be the 5th, 6th, or 7th player. Please discuss with your local coordinator about scheduling a different scenario, setting up some sort of sign up system, or some other resolution to give you the best chance to have a new play experience. If you've already played every scenario, sanctioned module, and sanctioned adventure path currently available, please consider GMing and giving back to your community. If you have no interest in GMing, my suggestion is to find a home game you can participate in, whether that be face-to-face or an online option. If you play more than two or three times a month, it is highly likely you will eventually run out of sanctioned events to play as we currently only produce two scenarios a month.
Would we ever consider changing those stipulations? Sure. If someone provides good, solid, reasons why changes should be made to existing campaign rules, we always consider and debate those. "Just because I want to" is not a good reason. If you just want to play a scenario again for the heck of it, ask your home campaign GM to include the PFS scenario as a side adventure in an AP or a home game of his or her own creation.
I think I answered all of your questions. If I missed anything, please let me know. I have another half hour or so before I leave for opening day of boat season here in Seattle and will be away most of the weekend after that.
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So the guy replaying can fill in the 4th slot for the pre gen? Thats Good to know.
Can they also fill in Player slot number 3 , with a pregen in slot 4?
Theoretically, could you have three replays and one new guy to make a table? (Mostly because someone wanted/needed a specific scenario)
Happy sailing
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Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
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How do you govern this?
I mean sure an honest person will be up front, but I have someone I see often who never lets the GM know he's replaying a scenario (so he can get a cert without Xs). This guy in particular was in one adventure that I ran, then 6 months later when my brother ran it he was there with a different character, and talking to another GM afterwards that gm also ran him through the same adventure. I think that he thinks it doesn't count if he rage quits when his character dies and he leaves the store before getting a cert.
If the same person is playing the same scenario and receiving credit, and the sessions are being reported properly, either local coordinators are ignoring what is happening or the player has several numbers (which means he also has several accounts here which is against the TOS).
Please bring this to the attention of your local VO.
Just got home from work.
Done and done.
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As the GM, it is your responsibility to check character sheets if you feel as though they may be legal. I have only once had a character that was not legal and asked that player to choose another character, make it legal, or play a pregen. It was the choice of the player and he chose to make the character legal before play. It worked out well.
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You cannot replay a scenario at an already legal table at a sanctioned event just for fun without burning a GM star, unless it is one of the evergreen scenarios that allow unlimited replay. So, if there are already 4 or more players at the table, you can not join in to be the 5th, 6th, or 7th player. Please discuss with your local coordinator about scheduling a different scenario, setting up some sort of sign up system, or some other resolution to give you the best chance to have a new play experience. If you've already played every scenario, sanctioned module, and sanctioned adventure path currently available, please consider GMing and giving back to your community. If you have no interest in GMing, my suggestion is to find a home game you can participate in, whether that be face-to-face or an online option. If you play more than two or three times a month, it is highly likely you will eventually run out of sanctioned events to play as we currently only produce two scenarios a month.
This is the piece that I am going to have problems with. Probably, mainly, due to local stuff, but it is germaine.
Situation:
Two GMs prepped, two tables open.
5 players show up.
Both GMs have a lot of player credits, and have already played the game the other GM is scheduled/prepared to run.
One GM has to either take a bus, a cab, or get a lift to the game.
That GM steps aside, to let the other GM work on his stars.
So, you now have a GM, 5 players, and the Gm who stepped aside.
Apparently, at this point, that other GM is stuck with either spending a limited lifetime resource (a GM star replay) or just picking up all his stuff and heading home? Remember that, since everyone else is playing, that means he has to take the bus home, in this specific instance burning 90 minutes minimum on it, or take a cab home, spending a shorter time, but around $40-50.
Sleep? We don't need no stinking sleep.
Oh, and, in this case, the GM has plans for what he wants to spend his replays on, and a Season 0 1-5 wasn't on the list...
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Quick questions kinevon
We're there pre game sign ups?
If so did those who signed up not show that now made an extra game not happen?
We are still trying to get the people used to using a sign up, but the whole Sunday thing is still fairly new, and the local PFS Warhorn is even newer.
So, at present, we are not able to rely on the warhorn signups to actually have much of an idea of who and how many are coming.
The population who shows up can be very swingy. And I was wrong, I think it was actually two weeks ago, not last weekend. We only had 4 players and a GM show up for the early session. There was a later session setup. but I think the only person who showed up for it was the out-of-town friend of our VC who organized that session, and the person who was going to be the GM.
One of our players is very new, just played his third PFS game, still lugging the Beginner Box around with him, and he is around 10, IIRC. Another player, this one's older brother, 17 years old, has now played twice.
One of the other GMs has a now-delayed moving out of town situation.
For tomorrow, we have two games scheduled:
1-41: The Devil We Know, Part 3: Crypt of Fools, with the GM and one player currently signed up; and 5-08: The Stolen Heir, with the GM and one player signed up.
Now, the GM for Crypt has already played Stolen Heir, and the player for Stolen Heir has already played Crypt of Fools.
Now, if no one else shows up, obviously, it falls under the make a table rules, but I already one that one player not on the signups is coming, since he has already called me to let me know he is available to pick me up in the morning.
That gets us to a single, still-legal-for-replay-to-make table, but I know that the two brothers haven't signed up, but have a good chance of being there. After all, the 10 year came back for a second game after his first PC died in his first scenario.
So, the brings up to 7 people, but at least one of those people, er the rules as Mike has clarified them, cannot play at the table without spending a GM Star Replay. And I think only one of the two, myself, has any GM stars available.
And I have already played Stolen Heir twice, once for credit, once to make a legal table... And that scenario has a real problem not being metagamey in, especially if you are playing a support character like Kyra or Lem.