The gist of this AP is: party gets ship wrecked, the other survivors represent different factions the party can make nice with & they find a map to an ancient city in the middle of the jungle that they pretty much need to want to go to. Because if they don't, then there is no story. That about right?
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You are correct, more or less.
But this extends to almost every AP. You're providing a plot hook. If the players don't want to go for it, you've got a story that's over. Some notes about this:
- Book One is a very fun standalone adventure. If they don't take the city bait, then hell, at least they got to play Book 1.
- Yes, the story ends if the party doesn't go for it, but you can provide plenty of reasons based on what you know about your character motives. Discovery, power, and riches are a couple. Defeating the serpentfolk empire is another one. Following a likable NPC, perhaps. Or establishing a new homeland for the Mwangi people. Or a new homeland for you as a ruler. Or, well, anything.
- Tell your players right away that they're going to need to make characters who will want to go on an Indiana Jones type adventure. Don't let them make characters who won't want to do the adventure.
- If you're really so worried that they won't continue the story, ignoring the path to wealth, glory, and power, than fine. You could easily just start them at book 3, at level 7. 4 explorers working with the X faction (you could let them pick which one), who have just discovered an ancient city with all sorts of fun things in it. There, now they don't need to go their because they're there.
This sounds like a pretty entertaining AP, but I seem to recall some complaints about the railroad. This left me thinking, "Aren't they all basically a railroad?"
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This AP, I think, does a good job of offering sandboxes that are connected by plot. Book one is sandboxy with a hook that leads through book to to a bigger sandbox that the party then interacts with for the bulk of the campaign. Book 3 needs a lot of work to make the sandbox fun, but otherwise, I think it's a great AP and I can't wait to get the chance to run it.
it is a great AP! i had a blast with it, what josh above said is spot on!
my only recommendation is: don't afraid to get weird with it:)
This AP, I think, does a good job of offering sandboxes that are connected by plot. Book one is sandboxy with a hook that leads through book to to a bigger sandbox that the party then interacts with for the bulk of the campaign. Book 3 needs a lot of work to make the sandbox fun, but otherwise, I think it's a great AP and I can't wait to get the chance to run it.
Odd thing about Book 3. It needs a lot of work to make it good. But the things that are there are absolutely fantastic. If you are willing to take the effort to flesh it out it is well worth it.
My group is doing book 3 now. And let me tell you, we like it a lot more than book 1.
I love getting to tinker with games and I am looking forward to playing around with book 3.
book 3 was my favorite!!! just because of all the stuff i got to tinker with:)
I love getting to tinker with games and I am looking forward to playing around with book 3.book 3 was my favorite!!! just because of all the stuff i got to tinker with:)
Aww yeah, you guys get me. PS PS Joshua, if you want to talk to some people who ran / are running book 3 right now, you should maybe talk to us about things! It could be fun to type in a more real time setting about things to do with that map and those adventures.
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my second best tinker i did: Advanced Hallucinogenic Fungal Leshy Barbarians, i will post them this weekend when/if i have time.
i want to try it again now that i have 5 bestiaries:) also ultimate campaign could really make it take off!
my main problem with book 3 was not enough artwork or maps of the city itself, otherwise i had little problem with it.
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My edits so far
- Note that my group hasn't explored all the districts yet, so I'm working on fleshing some of them more than the others right now.
- God rid of the Green God. Replaced him with Yogoltha, who is using some illusion spells to appear as the Green God. I also inserted a subplot here, where Ugimmo had made the Green God up (in order to increase his prestige among the boggards.) His mind was taken when he suddenly discovered his creation was real. My group never really got more than a hint that there is a 'green god' or that Ugimmo was mind controlled, because he was such a terrible dude anyway.
- I added a new boggard, named Bullgup. He was Ugimmo's apprentice, a level 4 boggard oracle of waves (haunted curse), and just terribly incompetent. Talks like someone who is constantly scared and nervous, trips frequently. Party took to him immediately. Now that they've killed Ugimmo they've set up Bullgup as the permanent spiritual leader.
- On that note: I made the boggards slightly more open to diplomacy. They are now the PCs allies, though it's rocky, what with their other allies (the Radiant Muse) and them still having a territory dispute.
- Egzimora has been replaced by a big ol' plant with druid levels. I'm not entirely sure I'm liking the build, it could easily be replaced.
- Lessikal and the troglodytes are allied with the Red Mantis. The group knows that this district is very active, I am going to start a-raiding soon.
- Depowered Lessikal a bit, so that he's more on par with the PCs and the faction leaders. Replaced his cleaving scythe with a vicious scythe.
- Empowered a ton of the faction encounters.
- Replaced Akarundo's spell list from his normal array of mind control magic to a bunch of ability drain, control spells, and nonlethal damage spells. I sort of toned down the typical rakshasa cunning and upped the rakshasa love of carnal terror.
- Added a ton of treasure, especially the hyena spirit skin and the returning bolas. Changed the wavecutter to be wood and blue obsidian, changed it from a Wavecutter to THE wavecutter. Also made it rule as a temple sword rather than a longsword (minus the trip bonus), because no one in my entire group could practically use a longsword.
- Changed the city description based on some readings I did of Ancient Aztec and Ancient African civilizations. I wanted it to keep being clear that we were in a Garund campaign, and liked the idea of Mwangi people eventually coming into the city, because ancient white Greek city in Africa isn't quite as fun as something no one had ever discovered before, a mix of world architectures and such.
- There are probably more but I can't remember the rest right now. But I can go into more detail on any particular thing or how it turned out or whatever if you guys want?
I played through half of this path so I can only give a player's perspective on it.
Book One was fantastic and really enjoyable. One of the best written scenarios I have played in over thirty years of gaming.
Book Two was okay at first but despite every precaution we took, not letting NPCs see notes, murdering a certain Gnome Pathfinder, covering our tracks, etc. everyone seemed to suddenly know what was up. This ticked us off as players and was obviously written in.
Book Three...I left after numerous sessions of boring hack and slash. Chances of talking to any of the district leaders were slim to nil. Either this was poorly run by our GM or just badly written.
Overall I disliked this AP so much I stopped playing. I got bored of the endless hacking, the obvious rail-road and the feeling that no matter what we did as players the AP itself dictated any outcome. We felt we had no control over anything.
You should have hung around for books 4 to 6......you would have really disliked it by then...everyone knows everything and you just interfere with the NPCs very important lives
Four was that bad I dropped out for most of it
Five was the best of the bunch
the writer of book 6 obviously forgot the PCs would be 16th and therefore full of tricks, resolve and bypasses....and the ending one big anti-climax....
A problem I have with most PF AP's...the writers seem to want to be novelists, where everything is an npc, not adventure writers where the PCs have input and independence of thought
You should have hung around for books 4 to 6......you would have really disliked it by then...everyone knows everything and you just interfere with the NPCs very important lives
Four was that bad I dropped out for most of it
Five was the best of the bunch
the writer of book 6 obviously forgot the PCs would be 16th and therefore full of tricks, resolve and bypasses....and the ending one big anti-climax....
A problem I have with most PF AP's...the writers seem to want to be novelists, where everything is an npc, not adventure writers where the PCs have input and independence of thought
so, you can write a better adventure?
go ahead i'll wait:)| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8zaa?Search-for-Lost-Legacy-By-Silvers-Light
need to subscribe to adventureaweek to get the other 3 parts of the adventure path
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8zaa?Search-for-Lost-Legacy-By-Silvers-Light
need to subscribe to adventureaweek to get the other 3 parts of the adventure path
pmsl
Now me, I thought the vegepygmy area was just crying out for big, lumbering herds of giant basidironds. For some reason my players find it hilarious when their characters hallucinate; and why not?
I think the game needs a way bigger hallucination chart for them, with lots of different effects. The way it is currently the novelty will wear off after repeat effects start becoming really common.
That said, basidironds are amazing, especially when used to support more dangerous foes.
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Viewpoint of someone who has played SS to the end.
Book one. Excellent!
Book two. Pure railroad, which we were pretty much expecting. This was 'The last one to the playground is a rotten egg!' part of the AP.
Books three & four. Bit grindy, but thanks to good work by our GM wasn't too bad. He was doing a lot of work with the other factions, so they weren't blanks waiting for us to run into them. Instead they were doing well, or badly on their own. When we encountered them we had the choice to help or hinder.
From memory, the Aspis consortium was secretly taken over by one of the big bads in the city and we ended up having to take them out.
The Pirates did so badly at being explorers they switched to running a supply line and making money off the other factions that way.
Books five. Again grindy, Though our GM had fun with the various NPC groups and politics which we walked into the middle of, as PC's always do.
Book six. Fun. Again our GM smartened up the main NPC's. They had the advantage of having observed us in action, knew what we could do, and had plans set up for our arrival.
Some tough fights and quick thinking got us through.
On the whole it was a fairly enjoyable AP, left as it is, too much of a railroad/grind, but a GM who takes the factions and NPC groups and adjusts them to be smarter and less static can make it work well.
DBH
The PCs primary motivation needs to shift quite a bit during the adventure.
Book 1 castaways trying to return to civilization.
Books 2 & 3 mercenary gold-hunters in search of a lost city in the jungle.
Books 4 to 6 heroes out to save the world from the big bad evil.So really the whole things needs to be presented from get go as an Indiana Jones type adventure -- you start out as the mercenary gold-seeker but morph into a hero when you uncover a hidden threat.
Not necessarily. The evil is trying to trespass on PCs property on the way to conquer the world. A big mistake.
Well, assuming PCs aren't the indolent types who let some ratty faction rule their city. Then again, PCs with no ambition need not apply for adventures of this type to begin with.
This sounds like a pretty entertaining AP, but I seem to recall some complaints about the railroad. This left me thinking, "Aren't they all basically a railroad?"
I don't even like the term 'railroad' unless its being used to describe a GM poorly handling the storyline as a whole.
Sure, Luke Skywalker could have settled down, become a farmer and not gotten involved... sure Frodo could have decided to hand off the wring and leave the big tasks of the world to big people... Sure Indiana Jones could have made a nice life as the most popular professor of archeology at Marshall College...
...but where would the fun be in any of that? If a player doesn't want to play the game, doesn't want to explore and enjoy the story, then you're probably with the wrong players.
A railroad is ok if done well
You go from a to b to c etc.....they are adventure PATHS after all
What is needed is what you do at each point is....
To be interesting
To have some affect down the line, gives the players choice
SS fails for me as it doesn't matter what you do, someone gets there first, the npcs are too over bearing, important, invincible etc
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You should have hung around for books 4 to 6......you would have really disliked it by then...everyone knows everything and you just interfere with the NPCs very important lives
Four was that bad I dropped out for most of it
Five was the best of the bunch
the writer of book 6 obviously forgot the PCs would be 16th and therefore full of tricks, resolve and bypasses....and the ending one big anti-climax....
A problem I have with most PF AP's...the writers seem to want to be novelists, where everything is an npc, not adventure writers where the PCs have input and independence of thought
Or you just need to consider who's running your games and not play in one of their games again. Serpent Skull was the first AP I ran and completed for my players, and they absolutely loved it.
A railroad is ok if done well
You go from a to b to c etc.....they are adventure PATHS after allWhat is needed is what you do at each point is....
To be interesting
To have some affect down the line, gives the players choiceSS fails for me as it doesn't matter what you do, someone gets there first, the npcs are too over bearing, important, invincible etc
That's just poor GM'ing you're talking there, my friend. Again, I had none of these problems in the game I played. My players determined how things went down. They were even able to form an alliance with the vegepygmies (and that took some work on their part)! Not all the factions arrived at Saventh-Yhi (at least until much later) because my players tried to keep things on the hush-hush (except they let a couple things slip, which enabled a couple of the factions to arrive shortly after them--one actually before). Their actions determined events that took place in Book 4 (which I actually blended in throughout Book 3). Book 6 was by no means a cakewalk for them because there were numerous villains from earlier books that had gotten away and warned the enemy of their capabilities.
Everything ran smoothly for me, and much of what happened was dictated by the PCs themselves, by their actions. Again, they loved it! If an AP doesn't allow for player decisions and their consequences (good or ill), that's a GM not doing their job. It's not the AP's fault.