Mighty charge the 11th level ability.
Doubles crit threat on weapons during a charge and gives a free combat maneuver on charged target if the charge hits (includes sunder, disarm, trip and bullrush).
Full attack on rnd 2 assuming no charge looks like.
+22/+13/+8 for 44.5 damage a pop
T-Rex hits for +19 at 33 damage
So charging or at least getting good attack buffs from the group is definitely necessary. Or rather I probably could drop off the T-rex as it moves around to flank, activate tactician and tear into it with outflank giving me further bonuses.
We'll stick with the above. The point being that this is not a 1 dimensional guy.
Tarkxt, don't you have sprited charge? That allow to continue after charging, doesn't it?
You're thinking ride by attack and yes yes it does. So another possibility.
Well, whatever feat is :P.
So you can charge, past through the guy and then charge again from the other side
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Bodus the Orc
str 24 dex 13 con 16 int 6 wis 8 cha 5
Monk of the Empty Hand 1, Breaker 11
1.Power Attack
-Improved Unarmed Strike
-Improvised Weapon Mastery
3. Weapon Focus: Improvised?
5. Improved Grapple
7. Greater Grapple
9. Improved Sunder
11. Rapid Grappler
Body Bludgeon
Strength Surge
Smasher
Reckless Abandon
Damage:
PA + Reckless
20/20/15/10
1d8+26
Average 62.525
But, we are here to grapple things :)
CMB = 25 + 3 (Reckless Abandon)
AC 27, CMD 36
Round 1:
Grapple: success on 8 (50% chance)
Pin: success on 6 (60% chance)
Tie up: success on 12 (make that 2, 95% chance, strength surge)
Chance to escape: Average CMB = 24?, no chance of escape.
(Assuming you grabbed a small character)
Round 2 (beat face):
(Against another creature)
20/20/15/10
2d6 + 26
Average: 62.525 to target creature and weaponized creature
Total: 125.05 lethal
(Sundering the ground, AC 10)
16/16/11/6
2d6 + 31
Average: about 146.3 lethal damage :)
Now, if I knew this character was going to go far up in levels, I would take 3 levels of monk of the empty hand.
Here's how it goes:
Barbarian Ability : "While raging, if the barbarian pins an opponent that is smaller than her, she can then use that opponent as a two-handed improvised weapon that deals 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, assuming the opponent is sized Small..."
Monk Ability : "At 3rd level, as a swift action, a monk of the empty hand may use an improvised weapon to deal damage as if it were another type (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing) for 1 round, regardless of the weapon's normal damage type."
And Finally, Hamatula Strike : "Whenever you damage an opponent with a piercing weapon, you can immediately make a grapple check; success means the opponent is impaled on your weapon and you both gain the grappled condition. While the opponent is impaled, as an attack action you may make a grapple check on your turn at a -4 penalty to damage the opponent with your weapon, even if your weapon cannot normally be used in a grapple."
Pin Enemy
Take your enemy in hand
Use said enemy to impale another enemy
Well, whatever feat is :P.
So you can charge, past through the guy and then charge again from the other side
Certainly a possibility.
Ultimately I think people really underrate cavaliers. They point out so many problems without realizing that such problems are shared by quite a few other martial classes and are easily solved through teamwork with the other casters.
I think of interest to note is that the same cavalier posted here is also granting that +5 banner bonus to his mates on the charge as well as possibly giving Outflank to his allies as well. And demanding challenge makes it easier for them to hit. So he is a team player.
I think the only real change I would make to him is replacing trick riding with Lunge and get it on the T-Rex as well so I can punish large creatures as well.
Also of interest is knowing that he'll be doing mounted pounces alongside the mounted barbarians of the world once he gets mounted skirmisher as well.
Actually makes me want to go back adn finish that cavalier guide.
What about archers?
Aasimar plumekith fighter weapon master 12
STR 16
DEX 20
Con 14
int 7
wis 12
Cha 7
Feats:
Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
weapon specialization
Many shot
Deadly Aim
Greater WF
Imp Critical
Critical Focus
Arcane Strike
Attack: +17*/+17/+12/+7
1d8+19
I think a Gunslinger would win. Here's a quick build, probably contains a few errors...
Double Happy the Goblin
Musket Master 5 / Trench Fighter 5 / Urban Barbarian 2
Str:16
Dex:28 (Raging)
Con:10
Int:7
Wis:8
Cha:5Feats: PBS, Precise Shot,Deadly Aim,Weapon Focus,Weapon Special,Quick Draw,Improved Precise Shot,Rapid Shot,Rapid Reload (Double Barreled Musket), Goblin Gunslinger, Improved Critical (Double Barreled Musket)
Rage Power:Reckless Abandon
Attack: 20/20/20/20/15/15/10/10, d12+29, (19-20 x4)
Gear: 7 Masterwork Double Barreled Muskets, Paper Cartridges, Masterwork Backpack.
Fires both barrels of his musket at once, drops double barreled musket and quick draws another double barreled musket when a misfire occurs. The DPR maths is complicated, as you have to take into account misfires...
He goes through an average of 1.11 Muskets a round due to misfires.
I get a DPR of ~307, giving a 3 round DPR of ~921
(If my maths is correct)
Edit: Assuming Dex x 2 to damage is legal. Without Dex x 2 to damage
I get a DPR of ~229, giving a 3 round DPR of ~686
Lol, another reason I don't let dem firearms in my game. Sweet theorycraft though.
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I don't see why anyone's bothering calculating damage per round at level 12 with no magic items. Nobody fights with no magic items at level 12.
It is simply a baseline for mechanical build comparison, not a simulation of actual play.
Any DPR contest is determined by the parametres set up. AC being a very important one, determining whether builds that can get very high attack bonuses shine over those who get very high damage bonuses.
'No magic items' surely has an impact that favors certain builds. In the most extreme cases builds as the goblin gunner, who is allowed to spend about 20K on non-magical firearms, while others cannot buy a +1 weapon. But generelly it has a bias towards full bab classes who can easily get the to hit, as well as significant damage bonuses. Without magic items single-hitters has an advantage over full-attacker, since the latter would benefit from to-hit bonuses on iterative attacks.
But the point is, no matter what, in a DPR contest, the outcome is always biased from the parametres we set up. AC, amount of rounds, flanking or not, size of opponent, availiability of magic items and buffs, and very importantly the character level chosen, all affect which builds can get the highest DPR.
They are never a representation of actual game play, since that - luckily - isn't static.
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I have revised my gunslinger:
Double Happy II
Halfling
Mysterious Stranger 5 / Trench Fighter 5 / Urban Barbarian 2
Str:8
Dex:24 (Raging)
Con:8
Int:7
Wis:7
Cha:22
Feats: PBS, Deadly Aim,Weapon Focus,Weapon Special,Quick Draw,Rapid Shot,Rapid Reload, Improved Critical, TWF, ITWF, GTWF.
Rage Power:Reckless Abandon
Attack: 13/13/13/13/8/8/3/3; 2nd hand 13/13/8/8/3/3, d6+25, (19-20 x4)
Gear: 6 Double Barreled Pistols, Paper Cartridges.
Fires main hand pistol first, then drops it and quick draws another pistol, and fires that with his off hand.
Can add Dexterity to damage as a Trench Fighter, can add Charisma to damage as a Mysterious Stranger by spending 1 point of grit and a swift action a round.
Can ignore six misfires, which should be enough for ~3 rounds on average.
DPS ~476, DPS over 3 rounds ~1428
Feel free to find mistakes, as I am sure some must of slipped through!
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Recap #3
Teddy is hitting at 81 DPR, 263 over 3 rounds.
Great stuff, and looks like fun. The charge does 223. If the enemy is knocked back (70% chance), then its likely he closes next turn, and gets dealt 76 the next two rounds, for a three round total of 375. However, assuming the target can't close, there is a 70% chance of a charge the second round and a .49% charge of the third round. This means there is a statistical average of 223 the first round 179 the second and 149 the next round for a 3 round damage of 551. Awesome build overall, but ride by attack is probably a better way to go.
Is this build bargaining on a grapple, pin and tie up in successioon? What do the 50% chance means, because they appear to have no correlation to the numbers needed to be rolled. If the % chances are to be believed, then there is only a 29% chance of succeeding at all three checks. Also, what is the sundering the ground all about?
[spoiler=Vehas' Reddy Tosy: 306?]
I'm not getting the same numbers you are - which attacks have which damage? Also, with Wild Fighting and Reckless abandon, how much are we tanking AC?
With a low attack modifier and low damage, that's only coming out to 35DPR, or 105 over three rounds.
@Insaneogeddon: Sure! I'd love to see the build.
@Phosphorus: Oh gunslingers. With a three round damage of 1428, this is the obvious winner. Can somebody may sure this is correct?
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This build by Phosphorus only reminds me of why I have removed guns from my games. That and my friends (and myself) like to optimize like hell, so given the option we would do it.
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Bodus was a little more of a joke... Most people know Body Bludgeon is a hilarious yet mostly useless rage power to get.
But as for sundering the ground, essentially if you have nothing to hit, take the guy you have pinned and slam them against the ground over and over as a sunder attempt. Any damage the target takes, the guy you have pinned takes. With the breaker archetype, whenever you attack an unattended target, you add +5 damage per hit.
Now, if you had Pinning Knockout, the question would be if you can perform a sunder attempt with non-lethal damage at a -4 penalty. I had that in there originally, but took it out since I wasn't sure on the ruling. Hence the funny numbers for the to hit for attacking the ground, but the damage should be about correct. I did not include critical at all in any calculation though, the crit range with improvised weapons for this character is 19-20 (Even with a body).
The chances are off, the numbers are correct. I forgot to change the percentages when I realized I forgot to add in rage.
I'll post another, more clear version of the barbarian. soon
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Stats:
Str20
Dex14
Con15
Int10
Wis10
Cha8
Feats:
1Power Attack
1Furious Focus
3Raging Vitality
5Weapon Focus [Nodachi]
7Combat Reflexes
9Improved Critical [Nodachi]
11Extra Rage Power
Rage Powers:
2Superstition
4Lesser Beast Totem
6Beast Totem
8Reckless Abandon
10Greater Beast Totem
11Quick Reflexes
12Come and Get Me
Attacks:
Nodachi +18/+9/+4[1d10+19]
Raging Nodachi +21/+12/+7[1d10+24]
Raging Reckless Abandon Nodachi +25/+16/+11[1d10+24]
Tactics:Starts Raging and Charges Forward getting 3 Attacks [and adding 2 to the attack rolls] if he wins initiative or the enemy is otherwise far enough away to charge. Uses reckless abandon and CaGM each round for up to 4 AoO's/round.
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@Phosphorus: the reloading thing you're doing only works for one round. After that, your primary weapon is dangling from a weapon cord, and getting it into your hand has been errata'd to be a move action. And since it isn't the same as drawing a weapon (the rules call it 'recovering' the weapon) quick draw won't apply to it either.
It wouldn't even work with gloves of storing, because the rules specifically state you can only wear one of those.
No, not using weapon cords or gloves of storing. Each round he drops a pistol and quick draws an entirely new one from a holster. He discards one gun each round.
P.S. Maths correction to DPR of ~441, 3 round DPR ~1333.
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It might be something to note that the gunslinger there has 8 con, 7 wisdom, and has 24000g in equipment.
Maybe he can do a lot of damage but he isn't surviving past like, level 5.
Also, because he doesn't have quick clear, the gunslinger can basically only do that for 3 rounds in a day, or his guns will blow up. It is good for a competition but not a real build
You're right, it's really just a build to maximize DPR using the parameters set by OP. His build is just theorycraft, I would never want to play a character like that in an actual game :-)
If it was a real game you would have a real point buy, and avoid dumping important stats. e.g. 8/23/10/10/10/20. It would reduce DPR, but this would be made up for with items. A Clear Spindle Ioun Stone in a wayfinder would be a must!
Also, for Double Happy II, he only needs 7,000 gp worth of Double Barreled Pistols for three rounds of firing. (They cost 1,750 each, and they can be crafted for half price.) When you run out of the ability to ignore misfires, you could just drop guns when they become broken, and fix them before the next fight. As they only weigh 2.5 pounds, they could be repaired with the mending cantrip.
Or since you can now use magic, buy a slate spider.
You could even have a longbow for extreme emergencies.
If you need the saves, you could replace the Urban Barbarian levels with Paladin levels, or if alignment is not an issue, add 2 levels of Antipaladin.
The main problem is that very few GMs would allow Gunslingers and Trench Fighters anyway, so it's a moot point.
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It is simply a baseline for mechanical build comparison, not a simulation of actual play.But it's meaningless because some of the weakest builds with no magic items scale the best with flat per-hit damage boosts (such as from, say, a magic weapon).
This seems like mostly a thought exercise, but not a very practical one. Honestly I'd rather see it with proper gold instead of not, or possibly a WBL endowed model.
Also I think Double Pistols/Muskets should be capped from discussion, as they're one of the main issues with G. Slingers getting such insane damage. Being able to double up on all static damage (the multiple guns keep the static damage from other character's being able to spend wealth on +X weapons, since in this model you have nothing to spend your money on except extra weapons), leading them to pull out ahead.
We've got misfires on 1-3 for double pistols and 1-4 with double muskets, and again the money being able to be spent on multiples gets around the 2x double pistol reload issue that in a real game would be more of a deterrent towards that play style.
If we're going to do firearms, I'd rule that they only get one, or else you're giving them something to spend their money on that's directly impacting their power (which seems to be the point of lacking WBL in this experiment)
Still trailing along with Harrison, but right now I'm doing more research on how Familiars/Deliver Touch Spell work together before putting up a more definitive build.
Yeah, it's a bit absurd to be unable to buy a masterwork bow for the archer, but spend 7000gp in pistols :P.
Anyway, I agree qith A Man in Black. Some builds get hurt by the lack of magic bonuses much more than other. This is not a test to see which class do more damage, it's a test to pass some certain exam, and that's it. Just like "let's see which class can do more damage under sea" will finish with a lot of guys using harpoons and very little of them using warhammers :P
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Let's keep it to no magic items. I don't particularly feel like making things more complicated than they are. I also really don't feel like re-calculating all the DPR. There are a bunch of DPR olympics out there, but they devolve really quickly. By limiting parameters, I think we've actually managed to keep this one on track. This thread's about no magic items, but feel free to make your own thread, which I'm sure will be awesome
In any case I've done a little bit of math, and while magic items do help some builds more than others, the difference isn't staggering. Given that we are comparing numbers like 260 to 500 to 30, it's not a huge deal.
And yes, if this were a competition with a gold medal to hand out, then the rules would be different. But, since it's not, I'm content to look at these cool gunslinger builds and note that they are super expensive, but awesome.
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The revised grapple builds, with corrected math
Bodus the Orc
Str 24 Dex 13 Con 16 Int 6 Wis 8 Cha 5
Monk of the Empty Hand 1, Breaker 11
1.Power Attack
-Improved Unarmed Strike
-Improvised Weapon Mastery
3. Weapon Focus: Improvised
5. Improved Grapple
7. Greater Grapple
9. Improved Sunder
11. Rapid Grappler
Rage Powers:
Body Bludgeon
Strength Surge
Smasher
Reckless Abandon
Animal Fury
Damage:
PA + Reckless
20/20/15/10
1d8+26
Average 62.525
But, we are here to grapple things :)
CMB = 25 + 3 (Reckless Abandon)
AC 27, CMD 36
Round 1 (no bite):
Grapple: success on 8 (65% chance)
Pin: success on 6 (75% chance)
Tie up: success on 12 (45% chance), or if you only get the target grappled by this point, success on 22.
Use strength surge on the tie up to change it to a success on a 2 (95% chance)(only grappled: 11, 50%)
Chance of round one total success: 46%
Chance of success after 1 failure: 32.5%
Chance to escape from rope: None (Assuming monster CMB of 24 or less)
(Assuming you grabbed a small character)
Round 2 (beat face):
(Attacking another creature)
20/20/15/10
2d6 + 26
Average: 62.525 to target creature and weaponized creature
Total: 125.05 lethal
After three total rounds, 250.1
(Sundering the ground, AC 10)
16/16/11/6
2d6 + 31
Average: about 146.3 lethal damage :)
After three rounds, 292.6 damage
Human
Str 22 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 7 Char 12
Ninja 12:
1. Sap Adept
2. Trick: Improved Unarmed Strike
3. Improved Grapple
4. Vanishing Trick
5. Exotic Weapon Proficency: Dan Bong (If magic items were present, change this out)
6. Minor Magic
7. Weapon Focus: Dan Bong
8. Major Magic: Truestrike
9. Greater Grapple
10. Unarmed Combat Mastery
11. Quicken SLA: Truestrike
12. Pinning Knockout
CMB = 22 (using Dan Bongs)
Average AC 27
Average after pinned: 21 at most (-4 dex and loses dex to AC)
Average monster CMD: 36
When grappled: 34
Pre-round (cast truestrike, move into position)
Round 1:
Grapple: success on 1
cast quickened truestrike
Tie up: success on 2
CMD of rope = 42, unbreakable
Round 2:
Unarmed strikes: 15/15/10
3x((1d10+6d6+18)x2(pinning knockout))
Average of: 178
After three rounds, 356 damage
One/day pony, but you'll typically have magic items and won't need to rely on truestrike.
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This is my upcoming Paladin I will play:
Paladin (12)
Human
Str:16+2racial+3attribute+4belt
Dex:13
Con:14+4belt
Int:7
Wis:7
Cha:16+4headband
Feats:
Power Attack (human)
Mounted Combat (1)
Spirited Charge (3)
Ride-by-Attack (5)
Lunge (7)
Lightning Reflexes (9)
Combat Reflexes (11)
Mount:
(anyone with flying and mount capacity, which is large by lvl4)
Flyby (1)
Power Attack (3)
Improved Overrun (5)
Combat Reflexes (7)
Greater Overrun (9)
Lunge (11)
Items: +4str&con belt
+a lot of extra gold!
Weapons:
Lance (masterwork)
7str x1,5+8(powerattack)x1,5+1+1d8=23+1d8 (when not charging)
69+3d8=82,5 (when charging)
138+6d8=165 (when diving with the flyby feat).
195 (when using the Lance with spirited charge+dive+smiting).
The Aim: 12bab+7str+1(higher ground)+1masterwork-4powerattack+0dive(charge)=17
Aim (with smite): 17+12=29
This is my upcoming Paladin I will play:
Paladin (12)
HumanStr:16+2racial+3attribute+4belt
Dex:13
Con:14+4belt
Int:7
Wis:7
Cha:16+4headbandFeats:
Power Attack (human)
Mounted Combat (1)
Spirited Charge (3)
Ride-by-Attack (5)
Lunge (7)
Lightning Reflexes (9)
Combat Reflexes (11)Mount:
(anyone with flying and mount capacity, which is large by lvl4)
Flyby (1)
Power Attack (3)
Improved Overrun (5)
Combat Reflexes (7)
Greater Overrun (9)
Lunge (11)Items: +4str&con belt
+a lot of extra gold!
Weapons:
Lance (masterwork)
7str x1,5+8(powerattack)x1,5+1+1d8=23+1d8 (when not charging)
69+3d8=82,5 (when charging)
138+6d8=165 (when diving with the flyby feat).
195 (when using the Lance with spirited charge+dive+smiting).The Aim: 12bab+7str+1(higher ground)+1masterwork-4powerattack+0dive(charge)=17
Aim (with smite): 17+12=29
The builts here is without magic items.
I would change the weapon of choice from Falchion to Nodachi. It has the same average damage ratio (it's actually easier to max out damage) and Critical Multipliers, but being able to count as 2 damage types for attacks is a huge benefit in the early levels, and by the end levels, it reduces the need for secondary weapons that much more. Plus some other goodies it has that the Falchion doesn't.
When you hit level 12, you can retrain Vital Strike for a more useful feat, since having 3 Attacks makes Vital Strike useless, the same as your Cleave does for 8th level.
I wouldn't really bother with Toughness as a feat, since 1 HP/Level isn't really that worthwhile for a feat, and the Two-Handed Fighter's premise is to kill them before they kill you. Having a strong Initiative to start is the best way to do it.
The Feat "Strong Comeback" synergizes well with the Improved Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes, and since the Fighter's effectiveness can be taken out with one Save or Suck/Die spell, making sure the reroll is good is definitely worth a feat compared to (at best) 20 hit points by the end-game, and when you have a Defiant property weapon, being able to do that several more times per day makes the feat more usable than 20 hit points will ever be. Although casters are squishy, lines of defenses, like Mirror Image, will be interfering greatly with your ability to land a successful hit and dealing damage, and having some defenses to counter their debuffs/save or suck/die spells is going to help you win fights more than 20 hit points by the end-game.
Other than that, the build looks solid to me, and seems quite similar to The Ultimate Fighter I designed.
i'm wondering how your ultimate fighter can afford his gear loadout, as well as how he's getting all those spells as a 1-20 fighter
yeap so far Gunslingers are nasty as hell with so much DPR but still I wish I could play just once with one LOL
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@FrodoOfNineFingers:For the grapple ninja, Dan Bongs don't work for grapple builds that are humanoids with 2 arms. When grappling, Humanoids take a -4 CMB to grapple, and Dan Bong only provides a +2, netting a -2 grapple "bonus". I'd swap it out for Extra Ninja Trick[Shadow Clones] just to up survivability.
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*Turn Undead Thread*
Your build has a lot of problems.
First off, Sap Master isn't going to work for multiple reasons. Feint will not activate Sap Master. Feint simply denies the target dex, it does make them flat-footed, which sap master requires. Also, Weapon Versatility alone is not enough to activate the sap line, you have to be doing bludgeoning non-lethal damage, and you don't have the bludgoner feat. Expect table variation on if bludgeoner will work on a non-bludgeoning weapon when using weapon versatility.
Secondly, you are using mounted combat on a mount that does not have class features. A single fireball will shut you down.
Finally, it's bad form to favorite your own posts.
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Sap Master: Whenever you use a bludgeoning weapon to deal nonlethal sneak attack damage to a flat-footed opponent, roll your sneak attack dice twice, totaling the results as your nonlethal sneak attack damage for that attack.
Neither of those say anything about my opponent being flat footed. They only require that I deal non lethal sneak attack damage..
You may want to re-read the feat you quoted.
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DPR Olympics Correct? Looks like Animal Companions, Summons, and Mounts are allowed. Ok, here I go.
level 12 Human Shaman, If Varient is Allowed, using varient multiclassing of Bard. Using Heightened Mount, Communal and alter summon monster
Main Item really needed is a rod of Giant summoning, Normal.
Feats:
1: Spell Focus(Conjuration)
H: Augmented Summoning
3:Bardic Knowledge
5:Ritual hex
7: Inspire Courage
9: Proxy Summoning
11: Versitile Performance
Hexes:
2: Fortune
4: Chant
8: Scar
10: Secret(Heighten Spell)
12: Guiding Star
Wandering Hexes:
6: Arcane Enlightenment
Giant Huge Earth Elemental
Str= 40(28Base+4 Augmented+8 Giant)
Attack= +21(10BaB+15Str-4 Size)
Damage= 3d6+15
With long term Buffs online(Heroism, Hunter's Blessing, Barkskin, 2 Monsterous Extremeties), and since the spell lasts 48 Hours, it makes sense to add in items to the Mix(Amulet of Mighty fists +2, Belt of Strength +4) it becomes:
2 Slams +29(3d6+21) and 2 wings +24(2d6+10)DPR: 79.5
Turning on Power Attack
2 Slams +26(3d6+27) and 2 Wings +19(2d6+13)Dpr: 97.5
Using Bardic Performance
2 Slams +28(3d6+29) and 2 Wings +21(2d6+15)Dpr: 105.5
If i can cast Divine favor on it using proxy summoning, then:
2 Slams +31(3d6+32) and 2 Wings +24(2d6+18) Dpr: 117.5
Spells used:
3:Heroism x1
5: Hunter's Blessing x1
1: Divine Favor x1
2: Alter Summon Monster
6: Mount, Communal(Heightened)x1
Please note this is just 1 Summon. with the spells of a 12th level shaman, the DPR can go Higher.
With Ritual Hex, you can gain access to a Grande Hex, which my favorite is the resurection one, however you can get summon spirit, to gain access to a 18 HD ghost, which increases the DPR even more. even though shaman is a spell caster, i belive this follows the rules of Martial, as clerics can go martial, heck, even eldritch knights are a thing.
DPR Olympics Correct? Looks like Animal Companions, Summons, and Mounts are allowed. Ok, here I go.
level 12 Human Shaman, If Varient is Allowed, using varient multiclassing of Bard. Using Heightened Mount, Communal and alter summon monster
Main Item really needed is a rod of Giant summoning, Normal.** spoiler omitted **
Please note this is just 1 Summon. with the spells of a 12th level shaman, the DPR can go Higher.With Ritual Hex, you can gain access to a Grande Hex, which my favorite is the resurection one, however you can get summon spirit, to gain access to a 18 HD ghost, which increases the DPR even more.
I believe you've completely missed the mark when the discussion is damaging martial characters.
It's one thing to use magic to enhance yourself to fight better, I'll give that a pass.
But you're just summoning creatures to fight for you. That's like the epitome of "not martial".
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Edit I cant read appoarently... Not last night and not this morning... Sap master does require flat footedI can think of a couple of ways to make your opponent Flatfooted.
bludgeonerYou need that.
Cornudgeon Smash Feat: free Intimidate every time you do nonlethal Damage.
Shatter Defenses: a hindered (like Shaken from Intimidate from the previous attack) opponents you hit and Intimidate again are now Flatfooted.
So then for hit #3 and onward, Sap Master is switched on.
Shatter Defenses requires you take Dazzling Display, which lets you Intimidate all foes within 30' as a Full Round Action, which sometimes is a good idea. But now we are talking about 5 Feats here: Power Attack, Bludgeoner, Dazzling Display, Cornudgeon Smash, and Shatter Defenses, 7 if you count sap Adept and Master.
Another option would be if you took the Distracting Attack Rogue Talent. You sacrifice one of your SA damages to make your opponent Flatfooted against some other ally's attack. You can't use it on yourself :( So, a way to make that work for you is if you take Leadership Feat, take a Rogue Cohort, and have him make the Distracting Attacks.
Another thing to look at would be a Mauler Familiar and the Eldritch Guardian Fighter Archetype. Mauler Familiars grow to size Medium and become viable combat partners, in some cases with more HP than Animal Companions. In addition, the Familiar of an Eldritch Guardian knows all of the Combat Feats that its Master knows, including all those Teamwork Feats that are also Combat Feats. It's seems like quite the Pandora's Box.
A Mauler Style Slayer can get Shatter Defenses w/o Dazzling Display
I also find Enforcer more effective than Cornugon Smash as it lasts for rounds equal to damage...
Scott, you know you are responding to things people said over 2 years ago, right?