Round 2 voting so far:
How many other worlds in the Solar System?
#0-13 votes
#3-4 votes
#4-1 vote
#5-1 vote
#6-2 votes
#7-3 votes
#8-2 votes
#9-1 vote
How many moons?
#0-1 vote
#1-2 votes
#2-3 vote
#3-4 votes
#4-2 votes
#5-2 votes
#6-2 votes
#7-5 votes
#8-1 vote
#9-1 vote
#10+-4 votes
How many Suns?
#0-4 votes
#1-4 votes
#2-8 votes
#3-1 vote
#4-1 vote
#5-1 vote
#8-1 vote
It continues...
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All right, with that last vote 7 moons is in the lead by 1! I can see the 5 elements, if we include Void, or just 4 elements plus good, neutrality, and evil. However it goes, and it could mean something else entirely. Of course they need names. 1-2 more days and then we move on to Round 3!!!!!
You know, what about the four alignments, positive energy (life/substance), negative energy (death/void), and elemental forces (itself comprised of the four classics, plus, maybe, the Chinese classics)?
Alternatively, the two suns (the eyes of the dreaming god) could be positive and negative energy (creation/destruction//existence/oblivion - the will of the Dreamer made manifest). One of the interesting things (to borrow from the "looseness" of dream logic) is that only one of them is ever the given element (i.e. only one sun is positive and one is negative) but since they're both aspects of the same being, it's entirely impossible to tell which is which - they might even switch periodically.
Regardless, in this interpretation, undead might actually love the sun... that is, the negative-energy one... possibly revering it. I wonder if they rise/set together?
In any event, if we take my previous idea (the cycles and what happens to petitioners thereafter) it may make serious sense as to why undead might hate living creatures - they were never properly reincarnated in the cycle and are trapped in the dream as themselves... endlessly forced to relive their painful, traumatic lives and deaths because the Dreamer is unable to forget them. They are, thus, trapped in a loop of hatred and regrets.
They would tend to be leading candidates (along with the Daemons) to create the cults of the Waking Oblivion (or the Waking God or the Waking Dreamer or Woken Dreamer or whatever it's ultimately called). Heck, due to their existence, it may well be that there are good members (though misguided members, certainly) of this cult, believing that ending existence will end all the pain and suffering (especially if, say, evil creatures, by way of the chaotic elements of the soul-cycle, tended to infest non-evil locations (say, the chaos region was being taken over) and genuinely neutral-elements, again by way of the random elements of the soul-cycle, tended to be forced into the evil worlds (forcing tortures on the effectively innocent/undeserving).
In any event, if the positive/negative elements were moved to the sun instead of the moon, but we still wanted to tie the aligned planes to four of the moons (good, evil, law, chaos with the planet itself being neutrality), we'd only have three left to work with elements... which really doesn't suss out evenly no matter how we'd run it. Hm... I wonder if we took the classic five elements, added one more (I've forgotten if wood, metal, fire, or blood is part of those - if not, we could choose one of them, maybe) and then have each moon comprise of two elemental forces.
I will sit this part of the vote out. I think a stramning god should have more exiting dreams than ones about planets and moons. But i will be back for the next:)
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I've met both my dead parents in my dreams. They can't answer any questions or help me in any way, so I just told them to go to heaven or where ever, and they stopped appearing in my dreams. Undead are just monsters there, no connection to someone who lived once.
As for the moons, they might have different names and meanings at different times. In a weird dream there might be 7 moons named after the 7 dwarfs.
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While I think Tacticslion has a lot of good ideas for why the dead may merge into their respective planes as well as for the undead and such, it's also important to remember that this is, in effect, a dream.
Here are my thoughts on the afterlife/outer planes:
1) There is a pleasant/happy dream plane where benign entities reside and benign people go after death. This goes with the 'good' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Good alignment per se (and so Neutrals who are benign end up there too). The entities there are the stuff of good dreams like friendly fairies, silly creatures, and majestic angels.
2) There is a scary/sad dream plane where malign entities reside and malign people go after death. This goes with the 'evil' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Evil alignment per se (and so Neutrals who are malign end up there too). The entities there are the stuff of nightmares like malicious fairies, scary creatures, and horrific demons. The undead could come from here too and would not be powered by negative energy but negative emotions like fear and anger.
3) There is a plane of true dreams where orderly entities reside and orderly people go after death. This goes with the 'lawful' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Law alignment per se (and so Neutrals who are orderly end up there too). The plane acts like legend lore and scrying where past and present events can be viewed.
4) There is a plane of prophetic dreams where chaotic entities reside and chaotic people go after death. This goes with the 'chaotic' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Chaos alignment per se (so Neutrals who are chaotic end up there too). The plane can show future events, but these are only what may be and multiple viewings can easily alter it.
On the moons:
One of the moons could look like Saturn and the ring could be made of multicolored crystal shards with elemental properties. Occasionally these shards end up on the Prime.
If the moons are not separate worlds, then their natures should be tied to something else. It would depend on the final number of moons.
The moons may be able to do tricks like merging or spinning around one another or similar since this is a dream and physics don't have to make sense as long as they're interesting.
Other Worlds: 0 (Dream world is cooler than dream solar system)
Moons: 4
Suns: 2
How many other worlds in the Solar System?
#0-14 votes
#3-4 votes
#4-1 vote
#5-1 vote
#6-2 votes
#7-3 votes
#8-2 votes
#9-1 vote
How many moons?
#0-1 vote
#1-2 votes
#2-3 vote
#3-4 votes
#4-3 votes
#5-2 votes
#6-2 votes
#7-5 votes
#8-1 vote
#9-1 vote
#10+-4 votes
How many Suns?
#0-4 votes
#1-4 votes
#2-9 votes
#3-1 vote
#4-1 vote
#5-1 vote
#8-1 vote
When I check this voting at the end of the day, I will end Round 2. You have until the end of today to vote! Some very good ideas about other planes of existence. So good that I want to devote a round to them. I can simply ask, how many other planes of existence are there and can you name them? Something like that. What happens to souls after they die on the Dreamworld? Stuff like that...by the way, Happy Valentine's Day!
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Well, if we're not going to have separate worlds, I'd like to shift my moons vote (previously 6) to 10, so that we can have a variety of moons of different sizes, that can still be visited by mortals and still represent the various cosmic entities birthed by the Dreaming God to shepherd the mortal world.
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How many other worlds in the Solar System?
#0-14 votes
#3-4 votes
#4-1 vote
#5-1 vote
#6-2 votes
#7-3 votes
#8-2 votes
#9-1 vote
How many moons?
#0-1 vote
#1-2 votes
#2-3 vote
#3-4 votes
#4-3 votes
#5-2 votes
#6-1 vote
#7-5 votes
#8-1 vote
#9-1 vote
#10+-6 votes
How many Suns?
#0-4 votes
#1-4 votes
#2-9 votes
#3-1 vote
#4-1 vote
#5-1 vote
#8-1 vote
Arakhor switched his vote, and I will allow it, since I didn't say it couldn't be done. That created a tie between #7 and #10, so it forced me to vote and I have chosen #10, ten or more moons. This creates an interesting problem, which is how many moons are there? I will make it easy, there one one for each month. So we know that the calendar will have at least 10 months or more. Each month is a New Moon, which is how people on Dreamworld can tell which month it is (if they don't have a calendar).
Now, this leads us into Round 3, where I will ask the obvious questions: how many months in a year, how long is a year, and how many days are in a week? Since each month has its own moon, then the name of the month is also the name of the moon! Sounds good to me. I like Arakhor's idea that these moons are habitable, represent a god or something, and can be visited too.
OK, I will take a break and then create Round 3 with my next post. I need to figure out a way to set it up properly. I am also loving the descriptions of the future inner and outer planes. I am interested in finding out if there is a dream plane, because all of this is a dream from an all powerful, all knowing, and yet completely distant dreaming god. This is really good stuff, thank you all!!!
Apparently it's a dream of one deity, and mortals cannot go there in their dreams. I wonder if so many people would have voted for it, knowing this is the case. Worse still, a dream is highly morphic, meaning the number of moons change constantly. These kind of disagreements and misunderstandings killed the other topic. I'm hiding this topic.
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Apparently it's a dream of one deity, and mortals cannot go there in their dreams. I wonder if so many people would have voted for it, knowing this is the case. Worse still, a dream is highly morphic, meaning the number of moons change constantly. These kind of disagreements and misunderstandings killed the other topic. I'm hiding this topic.
I thought it was fairly clear from the start that this setting is all the dream of one deity. I don't see any issues with the way things have been handled thus far. There are a couple different religions that argue our reality is the result of a dreaming deity or is a dream of some sort. While normal dreams are highly morphic, what's being created here isn't a normal dream, but it does have many fantastic properties - none of which are all that strange.
I think hiding the topic would be an extreme measure. So far everyone has been civil and there have been several creative ideas floating around.
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Man GG this is the second homebrew topic you've gotten ticked about something minor and flipped out and hidden it. Maybe you should just triangle up the homebrew section if you're going to be so thin skinned.
In case you missed it, the largest number of people here voted for the "dream of a sleeping god" setting. It's not Farael's choice alone in that regard. Nobody's pulling the wool over anyone's eyes here.
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The dreams of mortals are highly morphic, but even then I've frequently woken up to find out that something I "remembered" happening was only a dream. Who's to say that if a god is dreaming of an entire solar system, that its "inhabitants" aren't aware of their illusory existence, or even if they are, that they aren't forced to live out the dream, given that the god in question has seemingly never woken up?
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Round 3: the Months, Moons, and Days of the Week!!!
OK, so far we know there are Two Suns, one Dreamworld orbiting them, and there are 10 or more moons orbiting it. Now, lets get to the voting. I am just throwing this out there, and I never claim to be perfect...lol. I have stipulated that there is one moon per month, and there are at least 10 moons/months, so that is where we will start:
How many months in a year?
#1-10 months
#2-11 months
#3-12 months
#4-13 months
#5-14 months
#6-15 months
#7-16 months
How many days in a week?
#1-5 days
#2-6 days
#3-7 days
#4-8 days
#5-9 days
#6-10 days
Also, please come up with a name and its meaning for one or more of the months and days of the week. In the Gregorian Calendar, the names of the month represent gods, goddesses, and numbers (like December). The names of the days of the week are also named after gods and goddesses. For example, Thursday is Thor's Day. That part of it is very interesting to me, especially if the moons represent the names of gods and goddesses. Some of your screen names would be great for this, by the way. :)
This will be open up to a week, or until the voting dies down. To Goth Guru, I was about to devote an entire round to creating your character, but not now...lol
Considering we have 10 moons i would suggest 120 months a year, give or take (soom moons might cycle faster than others) but they're all interlaced
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14 months (I liked 7 for moons before, so twice as good).
Timpani, the month of rains and traditional time for tears of remembrance of things both good and bad. Named for a water goddess who also gave her name to the instrument.
9 day weeks - 3 work, 1 rest, 3 work, 1 rest, 1 day of festivals (a different one each week).
Farael, the first day of the week and the day after the day of festivals. Fallen from the heights of the day before (especially with no day of recovery).
10 months, 10 days...
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two suns, two years, alternating, short year and long year, around the little sun and the big sun - making a pear-shaped 'infinity-sign' orbit over a single Bisolar Arc
the little sun in 'hot', the big sun is 'cold'
those born on the Solar Equidox (when the planet is 'switching gears' between primary and secondary orbits) are considered Lucid Messengers
if a short year has X many days/months/year, a long year ought to have 3X
the month during the long year where the planet is most distant from the sun, and the inhabitants pray for the Dreaming God to have sad dreams, sending the rains down upon their crops in what is otherwise the seasonal bottleneck of agricultural production, can be called the month of Rainzax
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My inclination is for 16 months and 8 days. I am still inclined for there to be planets but in the sense of 'wandering stars' - that is, they are not separate worlds but rather some object that moves along the night sky. However, with all the moons I'm not sure they'd work out.
Chloeday - The first day: Chloe is goddess of light and fire.
Naecoday - The second day: Naeco is the god of water and ice.
Ardneday - The third day: Ardne is the goddess of air and weather.
Etroday - The fourth day: Etron is the god of plants and animals.
Oyneday - The fifth day: Oyne is the goddess of magic and healing.
Dimoday - The sixth day: Dimo is the god of earth and metal.
Imreday - The seventh day: Imre is the goddess of lightning and fire.
Veranday - The eight day: Veran is the god of darkness and cold.
I vote for 16 months. Note that in my first ordering of the months I also include signs for the zodiac, assuming one zodiac sign per month.
This system assumes that the world revolves around both suns at once (or that both suns revolve around the world at the same time if the system is geocentric).
Ina - The first month: Ina is the first spring month and is named after the goddess of birth and rebirth. Her sign is Psyche, the rainbow butterfly.
Bradil - The second month: Bradil is the second spring month and is named after the god of fertility and wilderness. His sign is Skyader the wolpertinger.
Amosy - The third month: Amosy is the third spring month and is named after the goddess of love and beauty. Her sign is Tianma, the winged horse.
Prosly - The fourth month: Prosly is the last spring month and is named after the god of merchants and travelers. His sign is Turul, the gryphon.
Youse - The fifth month: Youse is the first summer month and is named after the goddess of art and music. Her sign is Caladria, the phoenix.
Hapspur - The sixth month: Hapspur is the second summer month and is named after the god of peace and prosperity. His sign is Quin, the unicorn.
Riola - The seventh month: Riola is the third summer month and is named after the goddess of marriage and the hearth. Her sign is Asena, the lion-dog.
Aesry - The eighth month: Aesry is the last summer month and is named after the god of the sea and of sailing. His sign is Ceffyl, the sea dragon.
Tendula - the ninth month: Tendula is the first fall month and is named after the goddess of agriculture and crafts. Her sign is Bastmet, the fairy cat.
Frimum - the tenth month: Firmum is the second fall month and is named after the god of masonry and smiths. His sign is Ushi, the bicorn.
Tanasteria - the eleventh month. Tanasteria is the third fall month and is named after the goddess of scholars and magic. Her sign is Camazot, the horned bat.
Conthus - the twelfth month. Conthus is the last fall month and is named after the god of trickery and magic. His sign is Muscaliet, the azeban.
Trulet - the thirteenth month. Trulet is the first winter month and is named after the goddess of skiing and hunting. Her sign is Adarna the snowy owl-polar bear.
Strolus - the fourteenth month. Strolus is the second winter month and is named after the god of competition and war. His sign is Fafnir the ice dragon.
Chrysania - the fifteenth month. Chrysania is the third winter month and is named after the goddess of history and the dead. Her sign is Arachne, the spider-moth.
Amrose - the sixteenth month. Amrose is the last winter month and is named after the god of truth and justice. His sign is Gullin, the hippoalectryon.
This system assumes that the world revolves around both suns at different times (such as the figure eight that rainzax proposed) or that both suns revolve around the world at different times if the system is geocentric.
Enber - the first month of the first sun.
Diber - the second month of the first sun.
Triaber - the third month of the first sun.
Tesseraber - the fourth month of the first sun.
Penteber - the fifth month of the first sun.
Hexaber - the sixth month of the first sun
Heptaber - the seventh month of the first sun.
Oktober - the eighth month of the first sun.
Unimo - the first month of the second sun.
Duomo - the second month of the second sun.
Trimo - the third month of the second sun.
Quadrimo - the fourth month of the second sun.
Quinquemo - the fifth month of the second sun.
Semo - the sixth month of the second sun.
Septemo - the seventh month of the second sun.
Octomo - the eighth month of the second sun.
I'm not sure if this is the right section for it or not, but would it be a good idea to vote for:
1) Whether this is heliocentric or geocentric.
2) Whether the moons follow phases or simply have orbits that only take them round once a year (as far as this goes they could be in precession around the planet with, at most, three potentially visible at one time - one receding, one dominating, one advancing).
3) Whether or not the moons are all linked to months or if some do other things. For instance, if we have a Saturn-like moon it could always be visible (or go through phases) but the other months are determined by other moons - the Saturn-moon could be home to the gods, an elemental plane, a realm of the dead, etc.
4) Whether we have guiding stars (like the north star), and how many there are (one over a single pole, one over both poles, four along the horizon with one at each pole [for six total]).
5) Whether there are constellations, how many there are, and if they link up with the months or not. I've already noted mine above and I think it would be interesting if the constellations were animated.
6) Whether there are 'wandering stars' (as I mentioned with my non-world planets). Astrologers in ancient and modern times put a lot of stock in whether Mars or Venus was in the ascendant etc.
Thoughts?
14 months (I liked 7 for moons before, so twice as good).
Timpani, the month of rains and traditional time for tears of remembrance of things both good and bad. Named for a water goddess who also gave her name to the instrument.
9 day weeks - 3 work, 1 rest, 3 work, 1 rest, 1 day of festivals (a different one each week).
Farael, the first day of the week and the day after the day of festivals. Fallen from the heights of the day before (especially with no day of recovery).
Thank you for naming a day after me...lol
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Do we want any odd things going on with the moons and suns? For instance do we want a moon of moons where the moons all revolve around it and appear and vanish each month while the central moon remains steady? Would there be two moons of moons to match the suns?
Should we also vote on the length of the year and months? Do we want something like Eberron moons here?
I hope I'm not being too picky.
Round 3: the voting so far...
How many months in a year?
#1-10 months xx
#2-11 months
#3-12 months
#4-13 months
#5-14 months x
#6-15 months
#7-16 months x
How many days in a week?
#1-5 days
#2-6 days
#3-7 days
#4-8 days x
#5-9 days xx
#6-10 days x
Its interesting. I was thinking that the Dreamworld revolves around both Suns at the same time, making it geocentric. Or, it could be a sort of pear shaped infinity orbit? Interesting. The length of the year I think depends on the winners of round 3. If 10 months, 9 days wins, then there could be four weeks in a month, which would make it 360 days in a year. If 14 months, 8 days wins, then you could have four weeks in a month which equals a 32 day month, or a 448 day year.
Indagare, not picky at all! There isn't a right or wrong way to do this. The work you have done is amazing! I think the Dreamworld will be a combination of everyone's ideas and dreams. It should fit together beautifully.
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Five days in a week. Ten months in a year. Let's keep the math easy.
I vote ten days in a week and ten months in a year.
Voting so far:
#1-10 Months xxxx
#5-14 Moons x
#7-16 Moons x
#1-5 days a week x
#4-8 Days a week xx
#5-9 Days...x
#6-10 Days...xx
When I put in 10 months it was just to have a range so its interesting that its in the lead. A tie so far for the days we have all week...
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You know... the word month is based on the word "moon". Now, as I am sure you are aware, the Earth casts a shadow on the moon except during certain points and at another point the shadow completely covers the moon. We call this the "phases of the moon". The whole meaning of month is the time it takes for a full cycle of the moon's phases to occur... going from new to full back to new. The time this takes is about 29.5 days. This is what a "month" is and why it is named such. Under any other circumstances it makes no sense whatsoever to divide one's year (the time it takes to cycle the sun) into months.
I don't even know if your world has seasons (meaning that the world is tilted), but if the sky is filled with a dozen moons of various sizes, instead of months which cannot possibly have a meaning to these people, the people of the world would likely just divide their year into either 2 or 4 seasons-- with the shortest day, longest day and the two even points marking the beginning or middle of these periods. The number of days in these periods would be based on how quickly the world spins (i.e. the sun "rises" and "sets" for people in any part of this world) and how long it takes for the world to circle the star. Of course, your world DOESN'T have seasons even if it is tilted because of a different choice you made. Let's get to that in a bit.
The only way there could possibly be months is if one moon was recognized as the main moon and its cycles recorded. But then if it is one moon that is dictating the months, then you wouldn't have a month for each moon because all other moons are being outright ignored for determination of the lunar cycle i.e. "months". In fact, with a dozen moons in the cycle, the only possible way they aren't crashing into one another and creating a ring is if they are all cycling at different orbits, orbits that would mean that each subsequent moon would be twice as far from the planet as the last leading to a situation where one or two moons look giant and others look quite tiny--...
Loved what you wrote here. I am a fan of science, not an expert, so your work here is incredible. The only issue I would have is that this is not a world based on science, but on magic. Real world physics don't apply. Everything you wrote is 100% accurate, however. My initial idea is that the second sun is "dark" or "cool". It gives off no light. Therefore, the Dreamworld could orbit it normally, if that word can apply.
Second, I am almost certain that the unknown, dreaming god is from Earth, like I am, so concepts likes months and years traveled to this world that He dreamed about. His identity is a mystery, like God is a mystery, but its one I want to eventually unravel.
Third, if every month has its own moon, then they would be orbiting equally apart. Maybe they are exactly 30 days apart. Maybe the dreaming god keeps the other moons invisible during the months. Again, this is magic and it doesn't have to follow physics.
Fourth, there would be seasons, the world would be tilted, but it just feels like there are seasons, because the world is a dream. I was thinking that maybe each year could have its own season. For example, there would be a year of winter, a year of summer, a year of spring, and a year of fall. Just a thought.
Finally, I really liked what you wrote! Please keep contributing! Your name would make a great character or location.
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You know... the word month is based on the word "moon". Now, as I am sure you are aware, the Earth casts a shadow on the moon except during certain points and at another point the shadow completely covers the moon. We call this the "phases of the moon". The whole meaning of month is the time it takes for a full cycle of the moon's phases to occur... going from new to full back to new. The time this takes is about 29.5 days. This is what a "month" is and why it is named such. Under any other circumstances it makes no sense whatsoever to divide one's year (the time it takes to cycle the sun) into months.
Actually, the Earth only really casts its shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse. The phases are otherwise determined by the Moon's position relative to the Earth and the sun. If you see images of Earth from the Moon, you will see the Earth also undergoes such phases, as does Venus and every other object that orbits.
In reality you might be right, but here the term month could still be used because it's still determined by how long a single moon dominates the sky. In any case, people are still going to use the moons in some form because they are there. People have even used constellations and stars in their reckonings for times to plant, to harvest, to sail, and so on because they were associated with some other meteorological phenomenon even if they didn't cause them. Naturally, in a setting where they can cause them the association would only be more important.
I don't even know if your world has seasons (meaning that the world is tilted), but if the sky is filled with a dozen moons of various sizes, instead of months which cannot possibly have a meaning to these people, the people of the world would likely just divide their year into either 2 or 4 seasons-- with the shortest day, longest day and the two even points marking the beginning or middle of these periods. The number of days in these periods would be based on how quickly the world spins (i.e. the sun "rises" and "sets" for people in any part of this world) and how long it takes for the world to circle the star. Of course, your world DOESN'T have seasons even if it is tilted because of a different choice you made. Let's get to that in a bit.
Presumably the world has seasons, but it does not need to be the result of orbital tilt here. You are forgetting that this is a setting where magic will also exist and where there will (presumably) be elemental planes which could manifests through the moons or suns or both and thus alter the seasons. This is, of course, not counting actual real deities who could presumably control world-wide weather to make seasons.
The only way there could possibly be months is if one moon was recognized as the main moon and its cycles recorded. But then if it is one moon that is dictating the months, then you wouldn't have a month for each moon because all other moons are being outright ignored for determination of the lunar cycle i.e. "months". In fact, with a dozen moons in the cycle, the only possible way they aren't crashing into one another and creating a ring is if they are all cycling at different orbits, orbits that would mean that each subsequent moon would be twice as far from the planet as the last leading to a situation where one or two moons look giant and others look quite tiny-- almost indistinguishable from stars. Of course, I suppose it would be possible for two to share an orbit but be on different sides of the planet, but in such a case only one or the other would be seen at any given time-- which could lead to some interesting mythology for the people.
You're assuming that the orbits are not controlled by deities, magic, or a result of crystal spheres or similar. Nothing's been determined yet as to how all this appears in the sky.
Anyway, by being at different orbits would mean that the moons would be circling at different rates. You know, the circling of the moon around the Earth doesn't precisely coincide with the spin of the Earth. This is why you sometimes see the moon during the day. Well, it would be even more extreme for this world where there would be moons that would hang in the sky for several days before disappearing for several days (the "smallest" ones) while others could be so close that they rise and fall several times during the same day (the "biggest" ones). It would be extremely rare to see all of them in the sky at the same time. Although it would probably become not so uncommon for one to pass in front of others blocking them from sight or for the closer ones to cast shadows on the further ones adding complications to the whole "lunar cycle" thing. Oh, and because you have so many moons it makes me think your world is considerably bigger than Earth-- which you don't want to deal with the consequences of. Let's just say that gravity would be a lot higher and that would make quite a lot of things not work right.
Presuming gravity here works as we know it and not on some other system, and assuming that everything I mentioned above does not come into play.
But here comes the really screwed up part about living on your world in the solar system you choose... the way dual star systems work-- what it means to have 2 suns. You see, when you have a two star system, it means that one is going to be bigger and the other is orbiting the other. Now, if it is a far orbit such as if Jupiter was larger in our solar system and became a star, well... there really wouldn't be any place in the system for a life supporting planet to be. Caught between the two suns, night would be a rare thing indeed and all the water on the planet would boil away, the surface would scorch and well... life would be wiped out. So, to play things safe, let's say it is a close orbit and this planet also orbits the same main star but further out. Okay, that can work-- in terms of our solar system, let's say the smaller star is out where Mercury or Venus is and this planet is out more where Mars is.
Actually, binary stars could be of equal size and luminance. In fact, there's quite a lot of room for habitable worlds around such stars. Even if they aren't close binaries, habitable zones could exist around each of the stars assuming they were far enough apart from one another.
However, you're also assuming that this world is heliocentric and not geocentric, which is entirely plausible in a fantasy setting.
Okay, this would allow you to have a "year" that had a meaning-- you know, that the planet circles around that main sun once and that's called a year. And during most of its cycle, the second star won't upset much. Whether it is in front of or behind the other sun or close to it, it's fine. Usually... you see, you might think about our own solar system and realize that well... sometimes you can see Venus or Mercury from Earth in the night sky. You know, it is only about 2-4 hours before or after sunrise depending on which end of its orbit it is on at the time. For this world... that's a nightmare. You see, it means that this world would go through what would be like a season every few weeks. Whenever that second star reached the end of its orbit the day would either start or end a few hours earlier or later-- which is about half the difference between our seasons here on Earth and it always trends towards summer in these cases. Of course, I guess one could also note that when the second star is closest to the first, the day is actually the shortest. This means the world experiences pretty significant temperature fluctuations every few weeks. If it has otherwise normal seasons on top of that, there would be hellishly hot times a few times during the summer without there really being a clear solstice while in winter you would have the opposite problem.
Again, presuming it's heliocentric, and that the suns operate like fusion-powered balls of energy and not something crazy like elemental planes or energy planes or are similarly of a fantastic nature.
You see.. your choices in determining a solar system have a much more significant impact than you realize. You cannot throw around terms like "months" or "seasons" any more, because those concepts apply to us here on Earth. They wouldn't have a meaning to the people living in the world you've created-- so don't apply them there. It is as odd as if the people in that world were talking about speaking Russian or their foreign policy with China. If you are going to have your world have odd traits, then let it have those odd traits and embrace the consequences of those traits fully... don't force concepts that no longer fit it onto it simply because those concepts fit the conditions of the construction of the world we live in.
The fact you call a rabbit a gnorf doesn't stop it from being a rabbit and the breaking up of the planet's time into months and weeks or determining seasons by what happens meteorologically are not invalid at all and work as a common frame of reference that everyone can understand.
You may, however, want to look back over the course of this thread - where you will find the setting is the result of a deity dreaming it into existence - and in dreams anything can be real.
However, you may wish to reexamine the website you are on. You seem to be mistaking this for a hard science fiction site. It is my sad duty to inform you that this is, in fact, a site dedicated to fantasy which includes dragons and elves and other odd things.
I understand unicorns and fairies are not everyone's cup of tea, but here we imagine them to be real. We do not go by the harsh realities that are but by the fantastic realities that could be. If you don't want to participate in the creation of a fantastic world whose only limit is our imagination, you don't have to. Pointing out the fallacy of imagination, however, is also betraying science - for what allows us to discover new things is not knowing what is but imagining what could be.
You know... the word month is based on the word "moon". Now, as I am sure you are aware, the Earth casts a shadow on the moon except during certain points and at another point the shadow completely covers the moon. We call this the "phases of the moon". The whole meaning of month is the time it takes for a full cycle of the moon's phases to occur... going from new to full back to new. The time this takes is about 29.5 days. This is what a "month" is and why it is named such. Under any other circumstances it makes no sense whatsoever to divide one's year (the time it takes to cycle the sun) into months.Actually, the Earth only really casts its shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse. The phases are otherwise determined by the Moon's position relative to the Earth and the sun. If you see images of Earth from the Moon, you will see the Earth also undergoes such phases, as does Venus and every other object that orbits.
In reality you might be right, but here the term month could still be used because it's still determined by how long a single moon dominates the sky. In any case, people are still going to use the moons in some form because they are there. People have even used constellations and stars in their reckonings for times to plant, to harvest, to sail, and so on because they were associated with some other meteorological phenomenon even if they didn't cause them. Naturally, in a setting where they can cause them the association would only be more important.
I don't even know if your world has seasons (meaning that the world is tilted), but if the sky is filled with a dozen moons of various sizes, instead of months which cannot possibly have a meaning to these people, the people of the world would likely just divide their year into either 2 or 4 seasons-- with the shortest day, longest day and the two even points marking the beginning or middle of these periods. The number of days in these periods would be based on how quickly the world spins...
Excellent work, Indagare! You raised alot of valid points. Ultimately, this is a dreamworld, and reality is just an illusion. We haven't even decided if the world revolves around the Suns, or the Suns revolve around the world. Either way, there will be magical explanations for the seasons and all that etuff. :)
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So its venus? there a day is longer than a year i believe.
1 very, very.. very, very long day.
Momentous - the day that always is.
Not like Venus, there is no time, so I guess not like what I said either. Like a dream you just pass from one moment into the next without any real thought of what brought you to the present, everything is just the way it is. A dream world should be like a dream. No need for orbits or months or anything and then someone had an idea about tomorrow and the moons shot across the sky the world got dark and there was an overbearing need to hoard things.
It would be interesting if you had different groups of people. Those who are unaware they are in a dream. The awakened, who are aware that they are in a dream but divided as those who want to awaken the others and those who want to maintain the secret.
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Not like Venus, there is no time, so I guess not like what I said either. Like a dream you just pass from one moment into the next without any real thought of what brought you to the present, everything is just the way it is. A dream world should be like a dream. No need for orbits or months or anything and then someone had an idea about tomorrow and the moons shot across the sky the world got dark and there was an overbearing need to hoard things.
It would be interesting if you had different groups of people. Those who are unaware they are in a dream. The awakened, who are aware that they are in a dream but divided as those who want to awaken the others and those who want to maintain the secret.
It's possible the doomsday cult here are among those aware of the dream. It might not be easy to awaken others - in fact, if we borrow from the Matrix films - only certain people might be able to handle it.
It could be interesting if some kind of transformation happened to someone incapable of handling the knowledge they're in a dream and only killing them or putting them back 'asleep' stops it. It might explain why the doomsdayers want to waken the god instead. Of course, there could be several versions of them, with some trying different means.
Voting so far:
#1-10 Months xxxx
#5-14 Moons x
#7-16 Moons x#1-5 days a week x
#4-8 Days a week xx
#5-9 Days...x
#6-10 Days...xxWhen I put in 10 months it was just to have a range so its interesting that its in the lead. A tie so far for the days we have all week...
You may want to consider ending it early. There doesn't seem to be much interest in this aspect. I think Dustin Ashe has the right idea - the math should be easy to do for calculations and possibly for seasons and other things. Since the 1-10 is in the lead, 8 months divides into four seasons very nicely. That leaves a tie between the 4-8 and 6-10 days, both of which have 8 inside them.
We can deal with extra moons in different ways. Have a vote on what the moons do, look like, whether they have phases or do something else, etc.
Blarg. Running behind on this. I'm here in reading. Planning on catching up before voting for sure.
So its venus? there a day is longer than a year i believe.
1 very, very.. very, very long day.
Momentous - the day that always is.Not like Venus, there is no time, so I guess not like what I said either. Like a dream you just pass from one moment into the next without any real thought of what brought you to the present, everything is just the way it is. A dream world should be like a dream. No need for orbits or months or anything and then someone had an idea about tomorrow and the moons shot across the sky the world got dark and there was an overbearing need to hoard things.
It would be interesting if you had different groups of people. Those who are unaware they are in a dream. The awakened, who are aware that they are in a dream but divided as those who want to awaken the others and those who want to maintain the secret.
The Dreaming God is from Earth. Player characters are awakened. They are aware this is all a dream, which is why they can do supernatural stuff. Its like having extra hit points or lives. Isn't D&D just a game? Kind of the same concept.
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10 moons for 10 months, the first and last herald the beginning and end of the dream, at the end of the year, the god wakes and the next year begins when he sleeps again. an instant for the people of this world, eons for the god as time simply stops while he is awake.
1 - Night-bringer: This moon heralds the beginning of the sleep. Days are short and nights are long. The god has only just fallen asleep so the dream is new, and still in it's infancy. The moon is ill-formed and transparent, changing shape seemingly at random. This represents the re-birth of creation.
10 - Dawns-herald: A fractured moon broken into a hundred pieces hangs overhead to represent the ending of the dream. Like the first month this one is dark. Endless night with the ever looming threat of dawn just on the horizon. While the sun heralds good tidings for most of the year, now it represents the end of creation, until it's rebirth the next year.
Feel free to fill in the middle.
Also, 8 days a week, since 4 is not available.
I vote like this guy.
I still like the idea of ten months for ten moons, so if we want simple maths, we can go for a ten-day week as well, with three weeks in each month (or four, if we want a more-unusual 40-day month). It also has pleasing synergy - ten days in a week, ten months in a year, ten moons in the sky.
Ten and Ten easy.
The winner of round 3 is 10 months (for 10 moons), 10 day weeks, 4 weeks in a year, 40 day months, 400 days in a year. Easy. :)
The winner of round 3 is 10 months (for 10 moons), 10 day weeks, 4 weeks in a year, 40 day months, 400 days in a year. Easy. :)
I think you mean 4 weeks in a month and 40 weeks in a year?
Here's how it seems like a month would work out:
-----------------------------------------
Week 1: 01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10
Week 2: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20
Week 3: 21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30
Week 4: 31-32-33-34-35-36-37-38-39-40
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What's next?
Round 4: the Inner and Outer Planes!
How many Inner Planes?
1-1 plane
2-2 planes
3-3 planes
4-4 planes
5-5 planes
6-6 planes
7-7 planes
8-8 planes
9-9 planes
10-10 or more planes
How many Outer Planes?
1-1 plane
2-2 planes
3-3 planes
4-4 planes
5-5 planes
6-6 planes
7-7 planes
8-8 planes
9-9 planes
10-10 or more planes
Also, name them if you can. I think crafting them by alignment would work best, but that's just me. :)
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There better be some powerful magic rituals that requires the alignment of some of those moons. When all 10 align... whew story event central.
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Given this setting is a dream, would the inner and outer planes even work like they usually do? Would the inner planes even be needed?
Elemental
Fire
Cold
Air
Earth
Water
Quasi-elemental
Light = Fire + Air
Magma = Fire + Earth
Steam = Fire + Water
Darkness = Cold + Air
Metal = Cold + Earth
Ice = Cold + Water
Storm = Fire + Cold (source of Electric and Sonic energies. It could also be known as the plane of Thunder and Lightning.)
Dust = Air + Earth
Mud = Earth + Water
Cloud = Water + Air
Total = 15 [5 elemental, 10 quasi-elemental]
I think Tacticslion had a good idea for the outer planes, but I'll reiterate my own ideas here:
1) Morphia is a pleasant/happy dream plane where benign entities reside and benign people go after death. This goes with the 'good' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Good alignment per se (and so Neutrals who are benign end up there too). The entities there are the stuff of good dreams like friendly fairies, silly creatures, and majestic angels.
2) Phobetoria is a scary/sad dream plane where malign entities reside and malign people go after death. This goes with the 'evil' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Evil alignment per se (and so Neutrals who are malign end up there too). The entities there are the stuff of nightmares like malicious fairies, scary creatures, and horrific demons. The undead could come from here too and would not be powered by negative energy but negative emotions like fear and anger.
3) Icelosia is a plane of true dreams where orderly entities reside and orderly people go after death. This goes with the 'lawful' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Law alignment per se (and so Neutrals who are orderly end up there too). Icelosia acts like legend lore and scrying where past and present events can be viewed.
4) Phantasia is a plane of prophetic dreams where chaotic entities reside and chaotic people go after death. This goes with the 'chaotic' realm Tactislion mentioned, but does not have to do with the Chaos alignment per se (so Neutrals who are chaotic end up there too). Phantasia can show future events, but these are only what may be and multiple viewings can easily alter it.
5) Hypna is a plane that looks just like the Prime but acts more like the Spirit World: features are bigger or deeper or somehow more meaningful here but the exact difference is hard to place. Hypna overlaps with the Prime and is where ghosts come from and go to. It's for people who don't fit into any of the other planes or who are still needed for the dream narrative.
Total = 5
You didn't ask, but here are the Transient Planes I think should exist:
1) Plane of Dreams: Though it gets into Inception territory, mortals have their own dreams within this dream. Undoubtedly the Dreamheart will have something to do with the Dreamer but what is probably unknowable. It has connections with Phantasia and Hypna. It may also act a bit like the ethereal plane.
2) Plane of Shadows: This is connected with both the Darkness quasi-elemental plane and the plane of Phobetoria. It's not an Evil place, but it isn't pleasant. There's no negative energy, but there are plenty of negative emotions.
3) Plane of Radiance: This is connected with both the Light quasi-elemental plane and the plane of Morphia. It's not a Good place, but it is pleasant. There's not positive energy, but there are plenty of positive emotions.
4) Plane of Primordia: This is connected with all elemental and quasi-elemental planes. It is a plane of plants and animals that acts like a combination of the Feywyld and the Beastlands.It looks like a version of the Prime where the forces of nature are far more extreme (including areas of wild magic). Folks using tree stride (or similar spells) access it. Some areas are dominated by a given element.
If there are no inner planes, this could take their place, with elementals wandering it and summoned from it (similarly summoned animals could come from here). Demiplanes might be easily added to it if it also acts a bit like the ethereal plane.
Total = 4
There should be no astral plane and no way to any other worlds.
*Edited to add more quasi-elemental planes and make entries more readable.
I like everything Indagare said.
I like everything Indagare said.
Thanks a lot! I realized I didn't mix some of the elemental planes, so I hope you still like it.
1 Inner Plane, a grey, dull void representing the unconscious brain. Its sustance can become anything and any element, and its creatures are amorphous, fearful phantasoi. It doubles as the transient plane.
4 Outer Planes. Law, Chaos, Good and Evil. Clashing and fighting within themselves they create all hues of alignment.
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THIS THREAD IS FANTASTIC !!!
The God is from Earth. I gather that he is or was a human being, so human concepts of dreams and psychology can be great sources for inspiration.
Note that I will use he/him for ease of writing, but it might be a goddess too ;-)
The 2 suns could be his inner duality of male/female, Yin/Yang, Positive/Negative.
The duality exists so that/because a reality other than what the god is does exist (ie, the dream, which is NOT the god himself).
In a way, the dream of the God is a tool for him to observe himself and maybe try to change things he does not like. In this way, all creations in the dream are the God himself in differing parts, aspects and quantities, showing different qualities that are all present in how the God thinks of himself.
There is a self-destructive principle at work in the God's psyche that is reflected in the dream. Else there would be no entropy, no conscience of time running its course, no true change or evolution of things. It may hinge on the waking of the God, but that just might be the end of the dream and not of the God. Maybe the continued existence of the dream is the God's self-destructing urge at work.
A bit of numerology then.
10 days. 10 is 1 after a full cycle. Links nicely with the One God perfecting himself through cycles.
4 weeks. 4 is the number of structure. Strengthens the idea of something being built.
10 months. Again the 1 after the cycle. Image of the Babel Tower. The God (and the dream) goes higher and higher through cycles of building on previous cycles.
The 10 moons can represent aspects of the God's psyche. They must be personally important to him : events, loved ones, enemies, fears, hopes, beliefs.
What numbers mean in numerology (could be used for the Moons) :
1 : leader
2 : follower
3 : friends
4 : structure/work
5 : movement/change
6 : justice
7 : spirituality
8 : material power/money
9 : altruism
Finally, have you ever had a lucid dream ? It is a dream where you realize that you are dreaming and try to change things in your dream. It can work, but some changes (trying too hard IIRC) disrupt the threads of the dream and wake you up.
The PCs (and significant NPCs) might be lucid dreamers, or lucid expressions of the God dreaming.
Has the God dreamt other dreams before ? What's left of them ?
Need to consider the planes now :-)