explain mythic power attack to me


Rules Questions


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Your attacks are truly devastating.
Prerequisite: Power Attack.
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2. In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit, before it's multiplied by the weapon's critical multiplier.
You can expend one use of mythic power when you activate Power Attack to ignore the penalties on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute."

Exactly what does "the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit, before it's multiplied by the weapon's critical multiplier" mean?

So let us say you have a BAB of 12, thus +12 to damage, right? With a two handed weapon it's +16? So that's doubled to 32? But is that doubled again by being a crit?

Figure a str of 18, +3 weapon, Weapon spec.


That's what it looks like to me.

So if you were using a scythe with Mythic Power Attack, that bonus power attack damage would be pretty crazy. Using your example stats, you'd be swinging that scythe for 8d4+12(enh.)+16(str)+8(spec)+128(MPA) on a crit.

8d4 + 12 + 16 + 8 + 128 ⇒ (2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2) + 12 + 16 + 8 + 128 = 178 Not bad, even with the low dice rolls...


Yeah, that sounds crazy high.

Or is it just the bonus damage from THIS feat. Not Power attack, the difference between the two?


CRB wrote:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.


A small thing I noticed, the bonus from PA is increased by 50% when using a two-handed weapon, so with a BAB of 12 the bonus from MPA would be +12 and the bonus with a two-handed weapon would b +18 (+50%).


BAB +12

Bonusdamage one-handed PA: +8
Bonusdamage two-handed PA: +12

Bonusdamage one-handed MPA: +12
Bonusdamage two-handed MPA: +16

The bonusdamage is doubled on a critical hit and then multiplied by the weapons crit multiplier.

Damage for a Scythe can be (without enchancements, STR and others):
Normal damage : 2d4+16
Critical damage: 4x (2d4+2x16) -> 8d4+128

Mythic is crazy :)


Mythic power attack does not have the 50% increase listed. So going purely by RAW it would just be a flat +3 damage per increment.

in this form it would arguably be nicer for the sword and board crowd. Although extreme crits are nice to have aswell.


Quantum Steve is right, of course. The bonus damage from a two-handed mythic Power Attack in this case is +18 (+50%)

Power Attack:

"This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls."

@Daanu: The mythic rules only comment on the changes of Power Attack. Everything else stays the same. That is the usual procedure


137ben wrote:
CRB wrote:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.

Except that you're not multiplying the entire dice roll with a Mythic Power Attack crit. You're multiplying a single modifier(the Mythic Power Attack bonus damage), and then multiplying everything. It also specifically calls out that the bonus damage is doubled before the crit multiplier is applied. And specific trumps general.


DR absolutely sucks in Mythic rules...


ah good to know. not all that familair with mythic stuff yet.

Need to learn to double check stuff before I comment.


Values corrected .. 16 should be 18 in my previous post.

Quote:


BAB +12
Bonusdamage one-handed PA: +8
Bonusdamage two-handed PA: +12
Bonusdamage one-handed MPA: +12
Bonusdamage two-handed MPA: +18

The bonusdamage is doubled on a critical hit and then multiplied by the weapons crit multiplier.

Damage for a Scythe can be (without enchancements, STR and others):
Normal damage : 2d4+18
Critical damage: 4x (2d4+2x18) -> 8d4+144

The Exchange

Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3
bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your
base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter,
the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2.
In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled
on a critical hit, before it’s multiplied by the
weapon’s critical multiplier.

the way I'm reading this, its the bonus from mythic power attack, not power attack, that is doubled...
Mythic PA is 1 higher than regular PA, so on a crit it becomes 2 higher
as an example---

BAB:8
to hit penalty:-3
PA +6 (one hand) +3 (off-hand) +9 (two-handed)
MPA +9 (one hand) +4 (off-hand) +13 (two-handed)
MPA crit +12 (one hand) +6 (off-hand) +18 (two-handed)

Liberty's Edge

Chernobyl wrote:

Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3

bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your
base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter,
the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2.
In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled
on a critical hit, before it’s multiplied by the
weapon’s critical multiplier.

the way I'm reading this, its the bonus from mythic power attack, not power attack, that is doubled...
Mythic PA is 1 higher than regular PA, so on a crit it becomes 2 higher
as an example---

BAB:8
to hit penalty:-3
PA +6 (one hand) +3 (off-hand) +9 (two-handed)
MPA +9 (one hand) +4 (off-hand) +13 (two-handed)
MPA crit +12 (one hand) +6 (off-hand) +18 (two-handed)

The way you're reading it is wrong. The entire amount of bonus damage comes from the feat, no algebra gymnastics necessary.


What I'm confused about is why your BAB is added to damage in these examples. In the math, it looks like you're adding the same sources of damage more than once?

Silver Crusade

BAB isn't being added to damage. It is being used to set the amount of damage for power attack, which increases at BAB +4, BAB +8, and so on.


Yes, but I thought that was added in with the +128 due to the critical hit.

The Exchange

I really hope that's wrong then...crit monsters get insane damage and this feat becomes stupid powerful.
so you're saying it should be--

BAB:8
to hit penalty:-3
PA +6 (one hand) +3 (off-hand) +9 (two-handed)
MPA +9 (one hand) +4 (off-hand) +13 (two-handed)
MPA crit +18 (one hand) +9 (off-hand) +27 (two-handed) ??

I saw some threads from 2012 saying the language would be cleaned up but I haven't seen any cleaned up language.

Silver Crusade

I'd say +26 two handed on a crit, but yes, essentially correct. Then that would be added with the dice roll and other bonuses before being multiplied by the weapon's critical multiplier.

edit: multiply the dice, of course, and roll them. Not multiply the dice roll... *derp*


It's meant to be a powerful feat, for powerful characters. Only issue I have is that it does so much that any mythic meleer basically has to take it. Best part is you can just ignore the AB penalty too for a mythic power, for a whole minute. Crits or no Crit, it's very powerful.


Try to calculate Mythic power attack + mythic vital strike with a two handed sword that a large fighter wields (such as a fighter who took a potion of enlarge person).

Yeah... That much. And it's doable at 1st rank.


Not that it would come to this but i've seen some very high numbers using two handed fighter archetype, and mythic champion with just mythic power attack in play, granted it was a 20L10M build.


Tarius_Merlot wrote:
Not that it would come to this but i've seen some very high numbers using two handed fighter archetype, and mythic champion with just mythic power attack in play, granted it was a 20L10M build.

A level 6 fighter 1st rank champion can do more than 150 damage per round while moving and without any critical (and more than 400 when he crits).

Yeah, level 6. Without being optimized in doing so.

The Exchange

one of the guys in my jade regent game has improved crit and used kukris double weapon fighting...his damage output is getting insane...


@avh i've seen it go to 1.4K before, that was just the PA portion of the attack.

Liberty's Edge

So what y'all are saying is that the damage output of mythic characters is like something out of a myth?

Working as intended, nothing to see here.


ShadowcatX wrote:

So what y'all are saying is that the damage output of mythic characters is like something out of a myth?

Working as intended, nothing to see here.

Except that HP doesn't improve that way.

So a 6th level fighter WILL kill any creature he will encounter in one attack. Well, not CR+4 with more mythic ranks creature : you may have to use 2 attacks, or have the luck for a crit.

EDIT : or the creature will kill him in one hit... yeah, that goes both ways.


This is why mythic stuff is suppose to be well thought out by the GM first

And isn't the PC suppose to do something worthy if myth to gain their first rank. I've played in a lot of games and never seen level 6 characters do something simply that amazing. I know it differs table to table but it's a GM choice to give his players that much power...he should be ready for it.


Drakkiel wrote:

This is why mythic stuff is suppose to be well thought out by the GM first

And isn't the PC suppose to do something worthy if myth to gain their first rank. I've played in a lot of games and never seen level 6 characters do something simply that amazing. I know it differs table to table but it's a GM choice to give his players that much power...he should be ready for it.

In the Official AP "Wrath of the Righteous", you're supposed to be 6th level and 1st mythic rank by the end of the first book (out of 6 books for the campaign).


I cannot comment on that since I have not read/ran the AP...for all I know it could be set up to compensate for such power. On the other hand I have ran non-mythic APs and it seems most of then are written with the belief that people will play characters in the story...not a stack of DPR numbers...so a super optimized character will have an extreme advantage with the mythic rules in place in the game. I'm not saying it's badwrongfu to have a playable character...but many people I have talked to on the forums seem to be under the impression that if you don't optimize to the absolute best numbers then the character isn't even worth playing...to each their own of course. However APs seem to keep more with the spirit of the game and honestly are more fun to me when played by only slightly optimized characters

Again to each their own...if power and numbers are your "thing" in PF then at least be sure that your fellow players get some fun and light as well


I wasn't talking about an optimized fighter for damage, just the usual two handed sword basic fighter that benefits from an enlarge person spell (through potion or wizard friend).

He could be starting with 16 STR, and he still have more than half his feats, equipment and every skill points free for spending.

Mythic is ridiculous in most cases, because martials will do so much damage that any appropriate encounter will be deleted by one hit. Not from the whole party, just by doing the standard "move + one attack. You're dead. Next !".

I'm pretty sure an optimized fighter can reach 200 or more damage at the same level, whatever the point of doing this may be.


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Avh wrote:

I wasn't talking about an optimized fighter for damage, just the usual two handed sword basic fighter that benefits from an enlarge person spell (through potion or wizard friend).

He could be starting with 16 STR, and he still have more than half his feats, equipment and every skill points free for spending.

Mythic is ridiculous in most cases, because martials will do so much damage that any appropriate encounter will be deleted by one hit. Not from the whole party, just by doing the standard "move + one attack. You're dead. Next !".

I'm pretty sure an optimized fighter can reach 200 or more damage at the same level, whatever the point of doing this may be.

I read this and laughed, you sir are greatly misunderstanding something. I believe you think that Mythic Vital Strike allows you to multiply your damage by the number of each individual damage die rolled. This, while RAW is sort of correct, is grossly unintended. By "weapon damage dice you roll" it refers to 2d6 in the case of a great sword being a single set of weapon dice. So the 3d6 great sword while enlarged does not allow you to multiply your damage by the 6 dice rolled, but by the 2 sets of 3d6 weapon dice you roll. Any DM that lets this go as you seem to have interpreted it would be insane to think that such a disparity between weapons that happen to use multiple dice for their weapon damage and those that only use one is 1 is working as intended. Please correct me if I have misunderstood how you are doing that damage though.

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