Scorpion Whip interworkings

[blackbloodtroll]

Whips, and Scorpion Whips, are hardly overpowered.

They take a lot of resources to even make work well.

[Aurore]

We all know what we want to use them for so this is how I use them....

1. Exotic weapon Proficiency Whip works for both.

2. When you 'use the scorpion whip as a whip' it is just like a whip except that it is still light weapon. It Still does lethal damage because those blades dont magically come off, it gains 15' reach etc.

3. Whip feats such as whip mastery apply to both. Weapon focus feats applies to both.

Since anyone going for a whip build is going to be getting whip mastery anyway the provoke/lethal-non lethal are kind of moot.

Im pretty sure this is the way most people actually want to use the item. Is it balanced? I would say it is given the number of feats you need to make a whip work out as useful. Most of the other interpretations make the idea non workable, such as having to get a second EWP for scorpion whip, or magically making it a 1 handed weapon when it is used as a whip.

So unless you have a particularly mean GM, I would say use this as your template.

[Torbyne]

Wait, it doesnt work like that already? It doesnt make the most sense to me but i honestly thought you could take EWP: Whips and that let you use a whip or a scorpian whip. depending on if you wanted lethal or non lethal damage, right?. Or you could burn the feat for whip mastery to do it with one weapon on a D3 instead of a D4. The other way would be two EWP feats to use a scorpian whip as anything more than a crappy dagger and if that was the case i think it should be clearly stated to be the most complex and badass weapon in all the known planes. you could roll with a shotgun for less feat investment. :( why is it so hard to roll with a Belmont in Pathfinder?

[blackbloodtroll]

So, this has come up again. Now, for PFS.

If I am proficient with Whips, and I use a Scorpion Whip to deal nonlethal, do I suffer a -4 to attack rolls?

Am I still able to damage a creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher?

[Bardez]

I'm building a TWF Calistrian warpriest. She is going to carry roughly 10 whips of various properties. Large whip, small whip, scorpion whip, redundant weapons, etc. I think when it comes to PFS, best to ask a GM before the adventure starts how they want to run it so you can plan accordingly before the session starts, at least until there is a rules weigh-in on this.

[Joex The Pale]

When it comes to PFS, I have no knowledge of the specific ruleset for that subset of gaming, sorry.

In my own game though, I would rule as follows;

No.

Yes.

[Peet]

I think the exploit that comes to my mind is a TWF rogue with a 15' reach. I'm not sure though if I feel if it is overpowered. I'll have to see someone actually try to play one.

[Damanta]

Feat starvation is probably the most likely cause:

Weapon finesse
Two weapon fighting
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip
Weapon Focus: Whip
Whip Mastery

Human rogue could do it at level 5 (2 feats at level 1, combat trick talent to grab exotic weapon proficiency at level 2, focus at level 3, whip mastery at 5)
Any other race needs to drop weapon finesse and use the level 4 talent for finesse rogue to also get it at 5.

Ofcourse, if the scorpion whip is ruled back to being a whip which deals lethal damage as it was in the Adventurer's Armory then you don't need the last two feats and can get rolling at level 2.

As for BBT's question, I'd rule yes to the -4 for non-lethal and yes to still being able to damage.
Reasoning: you're trying to avoid whacking your opponent with the barbs of the whip, making it harder :)

[blackbloodtroll]

Ugh.

All I really wanted it to do, was both lethal, and nonlethal, without penalty, even to creatures with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher.

I wish there was a viable nonlethal weapon.

[Damanta]

There is. It's called a 1 leveldip in Brawler (or monk) :P
Granted it's only an 1d6 bludgeoning and non-reach, non-trip, non-disarm.

Anyway, yes it would be nice if the scorpion whip were to be able to be used the way you want it to.

Rewritten Scorpion Whip, Exotic onehanded weapon
Damage 1d3 (small), 1d4 (medium); Critical x2; Range —; Type S; Special reach, trip, disarm
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This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It can be used to deal lethal or non-lethal damage to creatures with armor bonuses unlike a normal whip. Any feat that applies to whips also applies to the scorpion whip.