Mammoth Lord (Ex)


Rules Questions


Mammoth Lord (Ex)

At 10th level, a mammoth rider is unaffected by the dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered, and stunned conditions. If she succeeds at a Fortitude or Will save against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. If a mammoth rider and her steed both successfully hit an opponent on the same initiative count, the foe must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the steed's Hit Dice + the steed's Str modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. Whether or not the save is successful, an affected creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours thereafter.

Me and my dm are talking this ability over and we just don't see it the same way. We were wondering if someone can give us a step by step sort of explanation for it.

AND

if there is a errata out on it.

I couldn't find anything on it.


It would help if you told us the two different interpretations of the ability. It's easier to focus effort on the parts that matter that way. However, here goes:

The ability in question has three parts. The first part confers the ability to ignore the penalties that are associated with the listed conditions. The wording is awkward, I'm not entirely sure why they didn't just label it as Immunity to said conditions, since they are functionally the same. The second part essentially gives the Mammoth Rider Evasion for Fort and Will saving throw effects. The third part of the ability says that if both the Mammoth Rider and his mount hit the same target on the same initiative count (such as count 18), then the target must succeed at said save or be stunned for 1 round, after which said target is immune to another application of this effect for 24 hours.


THx! We just wanted to see what others thought of it. Not what they thought of what we thought. So the other thing is it over powered or alright or just powerful?


I'm not sure of what you mean by "the other thing," but it is the capstone ability to a PrC that you can't enter into until level 7 minimum, making level 17 the minimum level you would receive the capstone ability. It's powerful, certainly, however, I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing given how strong the core classes have become in Pathfinder. At best, it's on par with core class capstones, Mammoth Rider just gets theirs 3 levels earlier, which is probably a good trade off for a mount so large that you'll never get into the average dungeon even on your best day.

EDIT: As Paladin of Baha-who? pointed out, the Skill Rank requirements, which I missed the first time around, put this ability squarely in the 20th level capstone court. In that light, it is on par with other martial capstones (except perhaps the rogue, but the rogue is a red-headed stepchild anyway.)


It's unusually powerful for a Prestige class capstone, but the mammoth rider PrC is unusually powerful for a PrC anyway, albeit with certain significant limitations.

Edit: This is probably because you can't enter the PrC until 10th character level. I just realized this looking at the class info. So, it's actually about right, and that's merely an OK 20th level captstone.


OK THx!


steve steve 983 wrote:

Mammoth Lord (Ex)

At 10th level, a mammoth rider is unaffected by the dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered, and stunned conditions. If she succeeds at a Fortitude or Will save against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, she instead avoids the effect entirely. If a mammoth rider and her steed both successfully hit an opponent on the same initiative count, the foe must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the steed's Hit Dice + the steed's Str modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. Whether or not the save is successful, an affected creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours thereafter.

Seems pretty cut and dry, not sure where the confusion lands, but lets go though it step by step

Ability 1: Immune to dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, staggered and stunned. (pretty straight forward there)

Ability 2: If a Fort or Will save has a reduced effect on a passed save, then instead you take suffer no effects at all (On a passed for or will save you suffer no effects)

Ability 3: If you both hit an enemy on the same time, they make a fort save or be stunned for 1 round, a person can only be hit by this ability once every 24 hours. (pretty straight forward here, if you both hit they make a save)

I can only imagine the issue must be with the second half, perhaps if you clarified which part you disagree on we could clarify further.


The friend of mine thinks it just overpowered and needs drawbacks is the basic run down of it. For example the fort/will evasion should be restricted like the inquisitors.


Having the ability restricted to light, medium, or no armor would negate one of the primary ways to enter the class, the cavalier. Fort/Will evasion is not as powerful as one might think. Most Fort/Will saving throws are already all or nothing.

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