Product wish: Kitsune Player Companion


Pathfinder Player Companion

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Hayato Ken wrote:
Crypt stalker seems a bit strong to me.

Kitsune (and by extension sal'awaan) have strong depictions in legends and stories as spirits/kami, and kami often reflect the state of the land (like in Princess Mononoke). While PF kitsune are humanoids, I wanted something to thematically reflect that link, similar to how Golarion elves adapt to their locale. That was the genesis for the crypt breaker quality.

The curse resistance is just an existing Paizo trait [1 RP] re-tweaked. The necromantic/energy drain resistance looked (still looks, actually) that way to me, but dhampirs have a similar 1 RP quality to ignore all energy drain effects and shrug off all negative levels after 24 hrs. I know some ARG RP values can be wonky, but I think this sal'awaan quality balances out when compared to the dhampir. I'm thinking I'll still tweak it down powerwise after some more thought.

Hayato Ken wrote:
Then again, when elves get a +4 bonus in the desert, why those ones only +2?
The +4 version is the 2 RP Desert Runner quality from the ARG. As the sal'awaan are already hitting 11 RP total, I halved Desert Runner to create Desert Marcher.
Hayato Ken wrote:
Next to shaman, they should totally get a special FCB for swashbuckler.

That's a great idea, thanks!


Eric Hinkle wrote:
I'll just say that I would love to see a Kitsune player companion book; though I suspect that if one is coming it's a long way off. Heck, we don't even have a Hellknight book yet, and how often have they shown up in the setting?

Me too. Yeah, I think our best shot is convincing Alex to write an "Amazing Races/Kitsune Unbound" supplement for Abandoned Arts or Radiance House or another 3PP.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nobody said that dhampir trait is anywhere in line^^

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
I'll just say that I would love to see a Kitsune player companion book; though I suspect that if one is coming it's a long way off. Heck, we don't even have a Hellknight book yet, and how often have they shown up in the setting?
Me too. Yeah, I think our best shot is convincing Alex to write an "Amazing Races/Kitsune Unbound" supplement for Abandoned Arts or Radiance House or another 3PP.

Well, considering that I just founded my own 3PP, I don't need to write a kitsune player companion for anyone but myself.

Which I'm totally going to do before the end of the year, mind you. ;-)


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
I'll just say that I would love to see a Kitsune player companion book; though I suspect that if one is coming it's a long way off. Heck, we don't even have a Hellknight book yet, and how often have they shown up in the setting?
Me too. Yeah, I think our best shot is convincing Alex to write an "Amazing Races/Kitsune Unbound" supplement for Abandoned Arts or Radiance House or another 3PP.

Well, considering that I just founded my own 3PP, I don't need to write a kitsune player companion for anyone but myself.

Which I'm totally going to do before the end of the year, mind you. ;-)

Ooooo, YAY! Now I'm wondering what you'd do with this.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
I'll just say that I would love to see a Kitsune player companion book; though I suspect that if one is coming it's a long way off. Heck, we don't even have a Hellknight book yet, and how often have they shown up in the setting?
Me too. Yeah, I think our best shot is convincing Alex to write an "Amazing Races/Kitsune Unbound" supplement for Abandoned Arts or Radiance House or another 3PP.

Well, considering that I just founded my own 3PP, I don't need to write a kitsune player companion for anyone but myself.

Which I'm totally going to do before the end of the year, mind you. ;-)

I am amused by this because I have totally been thinking you would be a good person to ask for tips if I were ever to try and write 3rd party content. It seems like my instincts on this were correct XD

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Let's pretend that I started brainstorming some kitsune stuff for the future. What sort of information are you dying to know / would want to see in this product?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Let's pretend that I started brainstorming some kitsune stuff for the future. What sort of information are you dying to know / would want to see in this product?

Okay......

Well everyone want's a nine-tail Kitsune sorcerer bloodline, an Oracle Archetype related to white-furred Kitsune. Something to add on their ability to use fire or Illusion. Information of the faith of Daikitsu.

Anyone else got some suggestions?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wait a minute, Alexander, did paizo ask you to make a player companion for us? *nod twice for yes, once for no*


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
zergtitan wrote:


Well everyone want's a nine-tail Kitsune sorcerer bloodline, an Oracle Archetype related to white-furred Kitsune. Something to add on their ability to use fire or Illusion. Information of the faith of Daikitsu.

That´s a good start.

There should also be (good and useful) things for kitsune rogues and especially swashbucklers.
SOmething martial that has easier access to magic and can make good use of a kitsunes magic styles would also be a lot of roleplay fun.
Perhaps a nine-tailed swashbuckler?

The oracle thing could totally be about illusions and trickery. Look at the oracle of heavens thing. It´s really cool, but hated because of the OP colorspray. They could have more illusion spells and make them more usefull somehow.

A cleric of Daikitsu with a racial trait that gives +2 to WIS instead of Kitsune magic.

A ktisune witch based on seduction and trickery that can mid-affect a little more would also be very thematically.

And for the sorcerer bloodline, i think illusion really lacks a good bloodline.

Contributor

zergtitan wrote:
Wait a minute, Alexander, did paizo ask you to make a player companion for us? *nod twice for yes, once for no*

No. I'd be writing a 3PP product.

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zergtitan wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Let's pretend that I started brainstorming some kitsune stuff for the future. What sort of information are you dying to know / would want to see in this product?
Information of the faith of Daikitsu.

I can't talk about Daikitsu because I am writing this as a 3PP product. I can, however, talk about Inari, who Daikitsu is basically a reskin of.


If you have any interest, I could polish up my version of the nine tailed fox bloodline that I have sitting around somewhere and send it to you ;)

I also have to mention two aspects of kitsune that (aside from fire and illusion) that paizo hasn't touched on yet: possession and life drain. These would be the race's darker powers I suppose.

For the possession that can easily be handled with a modified version of the spells that the werebear skinchangers get. Would probably be human or humanoid specific instead of animal specific. Not sure how the life drain one could be handled... maybe bonuses when casting certain necromancy spells.


Matrix Dragon wrote:
If you have any interest, I could polish up my version of the nine tailed fox bloodline that I have sitting around somewhere and send it to you ;)

Oooo, neat!

Matrix Dragon wrote:

I also have to mention two aspects of kitsune that (aside from fire and illusion) that paizo hasn't touched on yet: possession and life drain. These would be the race's darker powers I suppose.

For the possession that can easily be handled with a modified version of the spells that the werebear skinchangers get. Would probably be human or humanoid specific instead of animal specific. Not sure how the life drain one could be handled... maybe bonuses when casting certain necromancy spells.

Did the Al-Qadim yakfolk get translated to 3.x? Their body meld (I think that was what it was called) sounds similar to possession.

Would a lower level/power version of vampiric touch work for the life drain? Or is it closer to the hungry ghost monk archetype?


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One other thing that Paizo is missing so far is a good implementation of a Kitsune Star Ball. The Star Gems magical item is currently kind of a poor substitute: its importance to a kitsune isn't even close to the stuff mentioned in various Asian legends.

The closest and simplest thing that I've been able to come up with is a variant arcane bonded item, but I'm sure there is a better way to do this one.

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Matrix Dragon wrote:

One other thing that Paizo is missing so far is a good implementation of a Kitsune Star Ball. The Star Gems magical item is currently kind of a poor substitute: its importance to a kitsune isn't even close to the stuff mentioned in various Asian legends.

The closest and simplest thing that I've been able to come up with is a variant arcane bonded item, but I'm sure there is a better way to do this one.

It depends upon how much you're willing to move away from the ancient myths in favor of good game design. For example, can you really expect every member of an entire race to start off with a specific magic item? Admittedly its an inexpensive one, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

What there could be, however, is an expanded way for kitsune spellcasters to make use of a kitsune star gem. Maybe like a new option for the Equipment Trick feat .... :-)


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

One other thing that Paizo is missing so far is a good implementation of a Kitsune Star Ball. The Star Gems magical item is currently kind of a poor substitute: its importance to a kitsune isn't even close to the stuff mentioned in various Asian legends.

The closest and simplest thing that I've been able to come up with is a variant arcane bonded item, but I'm sure there is a better way to do this one.

It depends upon how much you're willing to move away from the ancient myths in favor of good game design. For example, can you really expect every member of an entire race to start off with a specific magic item? Admittedly its an inexpensive one, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

What there could be, however, is an expanded way for kitsune spellcasters to make use of a kitsune star gem. Maybe like a new option for the Equipment Trick feat .... :-)

You're completely right about that. Personally, in the past I've dealt with that issue by packaging what I thought were the most important kitsune abilities (including the star ball) int a bloodline. All kitsune have at least some magical ability anyway, so it isn't a stretch to say they all have the potential to unlock a bloodline at least via eldritch heritage feats.

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Still working on stuff; it's going to be slow because I'm also working on my next Pact Magic product, and that has priority for me.

Here's a teaser:

Archetypes
— White-Furred Oracle, a kitsune bound to a star gem who uses her inner supernatural power to augment her spellcasting.
— Kitsune Bloodline, a sorcerer bloodline available to all characters that focuses on trickery and deception via illusion magic.
— Nine-Tailed Mystic, an archetype for the oracle and sorcerer that allows the kitsune to grow in magical power by growing eight magical tails.


Alexander Augunas wrote:

Still working on stuff; it's going to be slow because I'm also working on my next Pact Magic product, and that has priority for me.

Here's a teaser:

Archetypes
— White-Furred Oracle, a kitsune bound to a star gem who uses her inner supernatural power to augment her spellcasting.
— Kitsune Bloodline, a sorcerer bloodline available to all characters that focuses on trickery and deception via illusion magic.
— Nine-Tailed Mystic, an archetype for the oracle and sorcerer that allows the kitsune to grow in magical power by growing eight magical tails.

Could either the White-Furred Oracle or Nine-Tailed Mystic instead be a witch archetype? Or maybe have a new archetype (along with favored class options) for the witch?

Heck, favored class options for all the core and base classes!

Do you (or anyone else) have any new archetypes/abilities ideas for a kitsune swashbuckler, shaman, druid, or ranger?

Maybe abilities/archetypes/rules that utilize ley lines, wayside shrines, kami menhirs, dolmens, stone circles, votive pools, place magic, and something similar to Forgotten Realms' backroads and crossroads?

Drow and elves absorb local magic/"background count", changing and adapting to their surroundings. Since kitsune seem so closely tied to their lands, maybe address how natural and magic changes in their environments effect them?

Maybe address how socially and magically/spiritually kitsune are effected by the loss of their tail(s)? Are some rare kitsune born as "rumpys" or "risers"?

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Could either the White-Furred Oracle or Nine-Tailed Mystic instead be a witch archetype? Or maybe have a new archetype (along with favored class options) for the witch?

Those two archetypes are pretty much set in stone for how they're going to function. I also think that adding a 'nine tailed' archetype for everyone is not a good design model for the product because A) it takes away the uniqueness of having earned nine tails and B) it severely limits what types of archetypes I can produce.

As a result, the Nine-Tailed Mystic is going to be the only nine-tailed option that I produce for standard characters, but I have something in the works to make it easier for Mythic kitsune to become nine-tailed characters.

Quote:
Heck, favored class options for all the core and base classes!

I'm planning on including that. Here's a sampler:

Fighter: Add +1/2 to Bluff checks made to feint opponents and Intimidate checks made to demoralize opponents.

Quote:
Do you (or anyone else) have any new archetypes/abilities ideas for a kitsune swashbuckler, shaman, druid, or ranger?

More spoilers? Okay.

— There will be a Harvest subdomain (Plant) in the product.
— I have a few witch hexes planned as well as the ideas for an archetype.
— Alex Putnam did a kitsune barbarain archetype in the Rogue Genius Games Kitsune Clans product that I loved, but that I also think that I can improve upon thematically.
— Not sure how / if I want to do a kitsune swashbuckler archetype. I think I need to see its final class design before I commit to it.
— I'm thinking about doing a Shaman archetype for kitsune that is focused around their roles as beings who ward away bad luck in Japanese mythology. No confirmation until I see the final class, however.

Quote:
Maybe abilities/archetypes/rules that utilize ley lines, wayside shrines, kami menhirs, dolmens, stone circles, votive pools, place magic, and something similar to Forgotten Realms' backroads and crossroads?

Probably not. Kitsune aren't portrayed as yokai in Pathfinder (so sayeth the Yokai Hunter ranger archetype) so I'm not likely to go into alternate types of magic and the like.

Quote:
Drow and elves absorb local magic/"background count", changing and adapting to their surroundings. Since kitsune seem so closely tied to their lands, maybe address how natural and magic changes in their environments effect them?

Actually, none of the fluff we've gotten about Kitsune in Pathfinder suggests that they are closely tied to the land. There's one NPC who was raised by kami, but her backstory explains that she's an exception rather than a rule. Kitsune are more like halflings; they live in humanity's shadow, hidden among them and likely have little cultural history. In the Dragon Empire Primer, kitsune are the only core race that do not specifically possess a home land, after all.

Quote:
Maybe address how socially and magically/spiritually kitsune are effected by the loss of their tail(s)? Are some rare kitsune born as "rumpys" or "risers"?

I'm not going to spend all that much time talking about kitsune tails. A kitsune born without a tail has a birth defect and all of the societal implications therein.


*revives thread*

So, I wonder if it has become much more likely that this book could come into existance now that PFS is being flooded with kitsune? ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It didn´t show up in the product schedule last i looked.
Some extended options might be a good thing though, now that the kitsune swashbuckler army is on the march!

Contributor

Personally, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends was published about two or three months before the start of the Season that made aasimar and tieflings "always available" races for Pathfinder Society.

Plus, kitsune aren't the only race to be added. They also need to contend with wayang and nagaji. Plus tengu are still "always available races." They have been "always available" for nearly as long as aasinar and tieflings were, are a much older race than kitsune in terms of their RPG heritage, and have a known fan backing at Paizo.

If we were to get any sort of kitsune content in the near future, it would probably come in the form of a People of the Dragon Empires supplement that focused on Tiens, Tengu, Kitsune, Nagaji, and Wayangs (plus Samsarans for completeness) in a similar manner to Blood of the Elements.

But then again, the fan reaction to Blood of the Elements' method of placing five races in one book also wasn't popular, but they did it again in People of the Stars and it was a bit more successful. So who knows?

For what its worth, I'm playing my third kitsune character in PFS — a kitsune tappenyaki chief who fights with his cooking knives. (He's a swashbuckler and now that the ACG is out, he'll be using the Flying Blade archetype. :-P)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Teppanyaki ;)

Between blood of elements and people of the stars there was not enough time to change the course of action.
The Kitsune book seems not to be in planning yet, so there is more then enough time for the considerate developers to give them the space and credit they earn. Surely production management will see that too :D

A book called people of Tien Xia could be allright too, but that´s 4+ races again. And they see a lot more play then the people of the stars races. If Paizo is bringing out a ranged combat toolbox and that sells, i´m pretty sure a book only about Kitsune would sell good too.


Hayato Ken wrote:

It didn´t show up in the product schedule last i looked.

Some extended options might be a good thing though, now that the kitsune swashbuckler army is on the march!

I actually converted my planned kitsune swashbuckler into a Magus now that it is possible to make a Cha magus. Magic using classes seem to fit the race better :)

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Well, its not a Paizo book but it might be the closest we get to a full 30-ish pages devoted on the topic of the kitsune player race.

Enjoy!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Your book? I´ll check it out as soon as i can^^
I´m sincerely hoping for something PFS legal though, now that Kitsune are an open race.

Contributor

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

It didn´t show up in the product schedule last i looked.

Some extended options might be a good thing though, now that the kitsune swashbuckler army is on the march!
I actually converted my planned kitsune swashbuckler into a Magus now that it is possible to make a Cha magus. Magic using classes seem to fit the race better :)

Not to mention you can grab a few swashbuckler deeds using magus arcana. :-)


On one hand, I really want that Kitsune pdf you just put out, but on the other hand none of my groups use 3rd party stuff (and especially not pfs) :(

I will probably pick it up, but still hope for official Paizo stuff XD

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Matrix Dragon wrote:

On one hand, I really want that Kitsune pdf you just put out, but on the other hand none of my groups use 3rd party stuff (and especially not pfs) :(

I will probably pick it up, but still hope for official Paizo stuff XD

A decent chunk of the product is dedicated to RP and world-building flavor. You could ignore all of the crunchy mechanics in it and still get a lot of benefit if you're playing a kitsune character.

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