Me with a ranged weapon, why do I need one?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

Lemmy wrote:
Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:
Te'Shen wrote:
DID CONAN USE A RANGED WEAPON?!... No, really. I don't remember. Did he? All I really remember is that picture of Arnold on the cover of the VHS... I mean DVD.
I'm currently about halfway through the published tales, and I have yet to see him use a ranged weapon. :P
I didn't read those books, but in the movies I think he occasionally throws a dagger or hand axe. I think he even throws his sword a couple of times.

to be fair, Conan is a low-level character in a low-magic world. He's still above the normal humans, but I doubt he's above 5th or 6th level... And flying creatures are relatively rare.

In Pathfinder, however, flying creatures are every-freaking-where. Especially after 8th level or so.

Maybe in the movie, not in the books. If you consider how many different abilities he pick up in he different books he has a lot of levels.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Maybe in the movie, not in the books. If you consider how many different abilities he pick up in he different books he has a lot of levels.

I think he's some weird Fighter/Rogue/Barbarian multiclass/gestalt... I'd put him on 6th level, same as Batman and Captain America.

Batman, OTOH, is Bruce Wayne's class. An incredibly overpowered class, BTW... And infinite WBL doesn't make him any more balanced...


Lemmy wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Maybe in the movie, not in the books. If you consider how many different abilities he pick up in he different books he has a lot of levels.

I think he's some weird Fighter/Rogue/Barbarian multiclass/gestalt... I'd put him on 6th level, same as Batman and Captain America.

Batman, OTOH, is Bruce Wayne's class. An incredibly overpowered class, BTW... And infinite WBL doesn't make him any more balanced...

Not germane to topic, but there is no way I would put superheroes at 6th level.


A sling is free. Free. Why wouldn't a low level character have one? It's one of the best ranged weapons to start with!*

*Opinion.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Not germane to topic, but there is no way I would put superheroes at 6th level.

Ah, neither would I, but that's because most of them get lots of racial HD and racial abilities...

e.g.: Superman started as a n 2nd level expert with some 20 racial HD and lots of overpowered racial SLAs... Eventually, through fighting things like Darkseid, he gained a few levels in... I dunno... Brawler? Most of his abilities still come from his racial HD, though.

Batman is, IMO. A 6th level... errr... Batman. But he has really high attributes (like, the lowest must be a 14 or something like that), very overpowered class features and WBL of a 20th level character. He's can still be killed with a bullet, though.

Wonder Woman... I dunno... I would guess she's a 6th level Fighter with 16 racial HD and some weird template.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Azten wrote:

A sling is free. Free. Why wouldn't a low level character have one? It's one of the best ranged weapons to start with!*

*Opinion.

Mostly because it takes so dern long to load.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:
Te'Shen wrote:
DID CONAN USE A RANGED WEAPON?!... No, really. I don't remember. Did he? All I really remember is that picture of Arnold on the cover of the VHS... I mean DVD.
I'm currently about halfway through the published tales, and I have yet to see him use a ranged weapon. :P
There is at least one tale in which he has become the leader of a band of nomad raiders and he has become a expert in riding and using the bow. On the other hand I think it that his ability with the bow is cited but he make little or no use of it in that short novel.

He didn't start with proficiency in any ranged weapons? He was a warblade then! Everyone else knows how to use a crossbow at least. Cept' those druids...


Lemmy wrote:
e.g.: Superman started as a n 2nd level expert with a 20 racial HD and lots of overpowered racial SLAs... Eventually, through fighting things like Darkseid, he gained a few levels in... I dunno... Brawler? Most of his abilities still come from his racial HD, though.

Kryptonian is OP. Nerf plz.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Azten wrote:

A sling is free. Free. Why wouldn't a low level character have one? It's one of the best ranged weapons to start with!*

*Opinion.

Mostly because it takes so dern long to load.

I definitely thought it was a full round action before this thread caused me to look up the sling again. That being said the requiring both hands to load thing is inconvenient.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

My guess, is many players come up with a character concept and how that character engages in combat. What they forget, is that they will not always be able to dictate the terms of the engagement and that their opponents will also want to control the terms of the fight.

The common sense part of gear selection, is recognizing that combat will not always go according to plan and to make sure you have equipment to help cover these scenarios. In this situation, asking yourself "what if the enemies try to stay out of reach or attack from a hard to reach/unreachable location?" leads to the fairly obvious response "I better find a way to hit them back even when I can't walk up to them".


Neo2151 wrote:
Te'Shen wrote:
DID CONAN USE A RANGED WEAPON?!... No, really. I don't remember. Did he? All I really remember is that picture of Arnold on the cover of the VHS... I mean DVD.
I'm currently about halfway through the published tales, and I have yet to see him use a ranged weapon. :P

Dude, he killed a guy with a thrown chair!


meatrace wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:
Te'Shen wrote:
DID CONAN USE A RANGED WEAPON?!... No, really. I don't remember. Did he? All I really remember is that picture of Arnold on the cover of the VHS... I mean DVD.
I'm currently about halfway through the published tales, and I have yet to see him use a ranged weapon. :P
Dude, he killed a guy with a thrown chair!

Yep from what I recall 90% of the time he was either fighting melee mobs (even spellcasters in that series aren't much with the blasting attacks) or was commanding armies where someone else was doing the shooting while he kept an eye on the big picture. On the other hand he was more than willing to Keane and use anything he came across including a scuba suit on one occasion.

Which is my point some of us (like me) don't like make character choices based on what we know buy instead design to a concept of the character in question, who generally don't set out to be adventurers or don't have a lot of experience. Of course within a few levels they'll leant and start packing trail rations, cooking gear, a bedroll, a bow or melee weapon but first they need to have a reason to realize it is in fact a good idea.

Also Barman is meant to be highly skilled at investigative work and martial arts so i suppose it depends a bit on how you classify tha skill, most people in DC do seem more brawler than martial artist.


gnomersy wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Azten wrote:

A sling is free. Free. Why wouldn't a low level character have one? It's one of the best ranged weapons to start with!*

*Opinion.

Mostly because it takes so dern long to load.
I definitely thought it was a full round action before this thread caused me to look up the sling again. That being said the requiring both hands to load thing is inconvenient.

No more hands than any other non-throwing weapon.


Azten wrote:
gnomersy wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Azten wrote:

A sling is free. Free. Why wouldn't a low level character have one? It's one of the best ranged weapons to start with!*

*Opinion.

Mostly because it takes so dern long to load.
I definitely thought it was a full round action before this thread caused me to look up the sling again. That being said the requiring both hands to load thing is inconvenient.
No more hands than any other non-throwing weapon.

The handcrossbow would like to disagree!

but it can only do once. Also its exotic, clicking a trigger is hard, so you might never see one.


Azten wrote:


No more hands than any other non-throwing weapon.

True but if my character has to set down his ale there's going to be a bloodbath.


avr wrote:

Gimli isn't a great role model for a character in a pathfinder game because he gets into about 3 fights - just one of them on stage - in the entire series as written by Tolkien. Also for a while in that single fight he's outright jealous of the guy with the bow.

The opportunity cost for a strong melee character to have a sling or a couple of javelins is close to zero. Carry some sort of ranged weapon or be laughed at when you need one.

I've had whole Lvl. 1-15 Pathfinder campaigns where there were less than 5 fights throughout the entire story. I've had others that were in a war zone and seldom a session went by without a fight. The number of fights doesn't really bear on how I build a character concept.

Opportunity costs have different measures. When I encounter a situation that is sub-optimal for my character it is an opportunity for role play and creative thinking. Grab a table and run towards the enemy with it in front of you. Run out the door only to come back in through a window behind the ranged coward. Or just grumble and complain as you slog toward the enemy while being pelted with arrows.

There are all kinds of campaigns and all kinds of characters. So long as the table is happy, there is not BadWrongFun.

Liberty's Edge

MrSin wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:
Te'Shen wrote:
DID CONAN USE A RANGED WEAPON?!... No, really. I don't remember. Did he? All I really remember is that picture of Arnold on the cover of the VHS... I mean DVD.
I'm currently about halfway through the published tales, and I have yet to see him use a ranged weapon. :P
There is at least one tale in which he has become the leader of a band of nomad raiders and he has become a expert in riding and using the bow. On the other hand I think it that his ability with the bow is cited but he make little or no use of it in that short novel.
He didn't start with proficiency in any ranged weapons? He was a warblade then! Everyone else knows how to use a crossbow at least. Cept' those druids...

No, he was proficient from the start, he acquired a few feats, "just enough" to be better than any of mongol-like nomads at riding and using the bow from horseback.

If we go with the "Batman-class" idea and 6 levels, Conan his a fighter-like class that get from 4 to 6 barbarian barbarian powers every level and from 2 to 4 fighter feats every level, getting improved critical in the whole heavy blades weapon group at level 2 or so.

6th level, seesh.


In the current Second Darkness game, I created a monk and insisted that his concept was no weapons in his hands "Kung-Fu" the movie style. The gm didn't understand and was constantly trying to get me to use weapons, even those times when I needed to be in ranged combat. When those fights came about, I didn't get angry. I knew what I had done and for what reason. When 'loot' time came and a cross bow was in it, I was passed up because the group knew that this wasn't my schtick.

I don't agree that every character NEEDS a ranged weapon.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:

Genre. How many fantasy novel/movie/etc characters carry more than their signature weapon? I can even point at Jedi here, who should all carry blasters because lightsabers don't have a stun setting.

Jedi do have ranged capabilities. Apart from deflecting blaster bolts back at their attackers (!) and using powerful telekinesis, Luke carries a blaster, and it turns out Kenobi and most Jedi of his generation are actually proficient with them, as well. Plus, Jedi uses speeder bikes with mounted blasters. Oh, and they have telekinesis, which I'm mentioning again. Also, you can throw lightsabers. So, pretty much the opposite of what you said.

Even ogres are smart enough to carry javelins. The reason not to have a ranged weapon is because you are a hydra. Even then, you wish you were a pyrohydra.


Diego Rossi wrote:

No, he was proficient from the start, he acquired a few feats, "just enough" to be better than any of mongol-like nomads at riding and using the bow from horseback.

If we go with the "Batman-class" idea and 6 levels, Conan his a fighter-like class that get from 4 to 6 barbarian barbarian powers every level and from 2 to 4 fighter feats every level, getting improved critical in the whole heavy blades weapon group at level 2 or so.

6th level, seesh.

That's assuming he does have improved critical and all those rage powers, which I highly doubt. Conan may be badass, but he's still a normal human. He's not invulnerable. He still dies if someone puts a bullet to his head, or if a T-Rex's fangs pierce his chest. 10th level characters don't .

Anyway... I will no longer derail this thread.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lemmy wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

No, he was proficient from the start, he acquired a few feats, "just enough" to be better than any of mongol-like nomads at riding and using the bow from horseback.

If we go with the "Batman-class" idea and 6 levels, Conan his a fighter-like class that get from 4 to 6 barbarian barbarian powers every level and from 2 to 4 fighter feats every level, getting improved critical in the whole heavy blades weapon group at level 2 or so.

6th level, seesh.

That's assuming he does have improved critical and all those rage powers, which I highly doubt. Conan may be badass, but he's still a normal human. He's not invulnerable. He still dies if someone puts a bullet to his head, or if a T-Rex's fangs pierce his chest. 10th level characters don't .

Anyway... I will no longer derail this thread.

Let's see:

- crucified and left to die, he get mad enough to tear the nails out of the wood without permanent damage. Normal human?
- unarmored combatant against scores of weapon wielding, armored adversaries, he get out with a few bruises and cuts. And you say he isn't invulnerable?
- only surviving guy in a battle where "4 scores" of people died, then kill 2 giants and is only made unconsciousness by a stroke of lighting?
- kill a demon with a broken enchanted sword?

and so on.


Yes. Normal 6th level Barbarian human.


I remember when this thread was about bows.

I also remember when I said a real man doesn't use them. Clearly this lack of discussion about bows is proof that they aren't... something... something...


Te'Shen wrote:
DID CONAN USE A RANGED WEAPON?!... No, really. I don't remember. Did he? All I really remember is that picture of Arnold on the cover of the VHS... I mean DVD.

Yes. That loincloth is actually a sling. Why else would a northern barbarian be showing off that much flesh?

Silver Crusade

I always make sure to have bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing weapons and some manner of ranged weapon.

When dealing with cowards that run from a true contest of skill at arms, one must make certain concessions to practicality.


Reiji Nakami wrote:
concessions to practicality.

That sir is quitter talk! Man up and find a way to run/fly at your enemies faster, maybe load yourself into a catapult?


gnomersy wrote:
Reiji Nakami wrote:
concessions to practicality.
That sir is quitter talk! Man up and find a way to run/fly at your enemies faster, maybe load yourself into a catapult?

Throwing your sword always works.

Silver Crusade

gnomersy wrote:
Reiji Nakami wrote:
concessions to practicality.
That sir is quitter talk! Man up and find a way to run/fly at your enemies faster, maybe load yourself into a catapult?

Oh, the moment I can fly, I will immediately throw my throwing weapons to the wind. Preferably in the direction of evil!

Which is Southeast, I believe.

Silver Crusade

MrSin wrote:
gnomersy wrote:
Reiji Nakami wrote:
concessions to practicality.
That sir is quitter talk! Man up and find a way to run/fly at your enemies faster, maybe load yourself into a catapult?
Throwing your sword always works.

In 3.5 I'm playing a high level fighter with the Travel Devotion which allows him to move his speed as a swift action, which allows him to get his fair share of full attacks. : )

He uses a +5 throwing adamantine bastard sword, equipped with a Crystal of Return, for the times when he's killed everyone within reach. It doesn't always kill, but it stops an attack from being wasted.

The DM is creating a new world where not a single god has the travel domain. : /


gnomersy wrote:
Reiji Nakami wrote:
concessions to practicality.
That sir is quitter talk! Man up and find a way to run/fly at your enemies faster, maybe load yourself into a catapult?

Sounds like you'd enjoy "The Dwarf growing axe." I made up for en elite group of dwarves in one of my games. 3/day it could be used to make a ranged attack specifically it threw the wielder at the target then cast cure critical wounds on them. So the enemy would get a few hundred pounds of armed and armoured dwarf spike helmet first hitting them who then proceeded to try and hack them off at the knees.


Liam Warner wrote:

Sounds like you'd enjoy "The Dwarf growing axe." I made up for en elite group of dwarves in one of my games. 3/day it could be used to make a ranged attack specifically it threw the wielder at the target then cast cure critical wounds on them. So the enemy would get a few hundred pounds of armed and armoured dwarf spike helmet first hitting them who then proceeded to try and hack them off at the knees.

That is pretty swanky.


I build to a concept, but I don't think I've ever built the doey-eyed, "I-won't-be-an-adventurer" type. Characters I've built:

In 2e/3e I had a Halfling homesteader (fighter/rogue gestalt) who began as a blacksmith - throwing hammers alongside his trusty 2h sledge

For 3e there was a female sorcerer - spells for range

There were 2 4e characters; a warlord (bow) and a wizard (spells)

Now in PF I've made a Halfling cavalier/ranger gestalt (sling-staff) and a human wizard (spells); also a dwarf NPC that became a player character (fighter and part-time brewer with throwing hammers) and a GMNPC monk/bard (sling)

For each of these characters I made brief histories. With the exception of the sorceress in 3e they were all reluctant heroes and all of them had specifically chosen skills as if they had "day jobs". Yet all of them had something NPCs don't: a PC class.

Maybe it's 'cause I started playing so long ago but I adhere to the idea that the PCs are more than mere farmers and blacksmiths; they've seen some stuff that's put them on the road to adventure one way or another. If a favored Halfling pastime in the fluff of the edition I'm playing is rock pitching and they're exceptionally dexterous, of course I'm going to have the fighter-that's-also-a-blacksmith throw his lighter ball-peens at the goblin pegging him with arrows. If the monk/bard-that's-also-a-folk-dancer makes her knowledge check and realizes that the skeleton archers up the path have DR 5/Bludgeoning she'll sheathe her scimitar and start slinging.

TLDR; my point is if my character has trained, however briefly, for this kind of work I want to represent that training in my skills, feats powers AND gear. These are my tastes though; differing tables will have differing tastes. Game style.

Shadow Lodge

ngc7293 wrote:

In the current Second Darkness game, I created a monk and insisted that his concept was no weapons in his hands "Kung-Fu" the movie style. The gm didn't understand and was constantly trying to get me to use weapons, even those times when I needed to be in ranged combat. When those fights came about, I didn't get angry. I knew what I had done and for what reason. When 'loot' time came and a cross bow was in it, I was passed up because the group knew that this wasn't my schtick.

I don't agree that every character NEEDS a ranged weapon.

to this i would argue that your role-play is counter to what a living person would choose. i couldn't see anyone being unwilling to increase their ability to survive, by not taking something just because it goes against their beliefs.

i've seen a Hindu eat a hamburger once he got hungry enough.


TheSideKick wrote:
ngc7293 wrote:

In the current Second Darkness game, I created a monk and insisted that his concept was no weapons in his hands "Kung-Fu" the movie style. The gm didn't understand and was constantly trying to get me to use weapons, even those times when I needed to be in ranged combat. When those fights came about, I didn't get angry. I knew what I had done and for what reason. When 'loot' time came and a cross bow was in it, I was passed up because the group knew that this wasn't my schtick.

I don't agree that every character NEEDS a ranged weapon.

to this i would argue that your role-play is counter to what a living person would choose. i couldn't see anyone being unwilling to increase their ability to survive, by not taking something just because it goes against their beliefs.

i've seen a Hindu eat a hamburger once he got hungry enough.

TSK, I've seen people make choices that are counter to survival. It is not the usual occurrence, but it does happen.

ngc, Yes you considered the option and have taken it into account in your play style. No problems. If you had made the decision then just expected that every opponent would suddenly be easy to get at because that is the GM's job... Then I would have a problem with it.

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