For PC's, fighting a PC is an exercise in frustration for most monsters. That 50 point 'hit' that would claw a huge gouge in a rival dragon takes a few hairs off the beard of the dwarf as he steps aside. The mashing club that can crack a boulder just drives them down to a knee for a second. It's like, WTF is up with these guys? Why can't I land a clean hit and just squish them?Eeh... Kinda... Not really...
A character with enough HP can stand still in a pool lava inside a volcano in a dead magic plane and do nothing... And not only he will survive, but also walk away without any problems. There is no luck, magic or skill there... Just toughness. Similarly, a giant snake's bite attack still forces the character to make a Fort save to resist injury poison, no matter it deals 3 points of damage or 3000.
Personally, I prefer to think of HP it as a mix of luck, skill, fatigue, physical toughness, etc. It's more cinematic and, IMO, more interesting. But from a rules perspective, hp is treated as if it were plain physical toughness.
You can have a +20 Fort save against poison, and base 4 Hit points. The two are NOT related. Likewise you can have a +1 FOrt save and 200 hit points. They are completely different animals.
You're talking something that accumulates with spiritual power and levels vs what is basically an assault on core Stats. Two different things.
Being able to walk into lava and out again is certainly a magical event, no mere fleshy toughness can possibly explain such a thing...it's totally unrealistic. "toughness' would have to represent energy resistance, and that's not what we're talking about. You're just burning through hit points!
Poison bypasses that magical protection and goes right for the meaty bits. Which is not to say that you can't build up a fort save so high that even the mightiest poisons, that could down dragons and wipe out cities, have only the slightest chance of affecting you.
Also like to point out that Hercules, invincible in battle, was brought down with poison, and it has proven the bane of many heroes who could not be slain in combat.
==Aelryinth
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I'm not comparing Fort saves and HP, Aelryinth. You're completely missing my point.
What I'm trying to point out is that since you ahve to roll that Fort save to resist injury poison, then you have been injured. You didn't evade it or anything. You were actually injured.
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In The Ghost King by Salvatore...he has a passage of a high level monk, Danica, falling off a cliff. She does her monk thing of slowing her fall and then backflipping into a large pine tree off the wall, using it to slow her fall the whole way then tries to roll with it and os left near death, broken but still alive. I guess that damage could be somewhat explained like sword damage can be (graze, or small cutd wearing them down). Dunno about the lava though.Systemic problem, IMO. I think that someone got lazy and decided that environmental damage should be handled with hit points. Lava shouldn't be hit point damage. Falling shouldn't be hit point damage. They should be sliding scales of stat damage and saving throws based on how cinematic you want the game to be.
But hit point damage is what we have, so I just sigh and ignore it. :)
Stat damage. That is actually bloody brilliant. You fall, you take Dex, Str, Wis damage? I'm feeling the table start to build in my head.
Seriously. Awesome. Gonna think about this tonight.
I usually think in terms of Con damage, actually, but you could make a good argument for hits to almost every stat.Stat damage. That is actually bloody brilliant. You fall, you take Dex, Str, Wis damage? I'm feeling the table start to build in my head.
Seriously. Awesome. Gonna think about this tonight.
Guess I was thinking broken things, makes it hard to move and hard to carry heavy loads so Dex and Str.
Wis because concussions and shock make it hard to think. Int to perhaps.
I'm not comparing Fort saves and HP, Aelryinth. You're completely missing my point.
What I'm trying to point out is that since you ahve to roll that Fort save to resist injury poison, then you have been injured. You didn't evade it or anything. You were actually injured.
And it's bypassing the magical protection, which is MY point you're completely missing.
Stat damage is injury damage, too. But it's a different kind then hit points. Poisons that do HP damage...well, they just burn off HP and make you wince.
Poisons that do ability score damage are bypassing HP entirely and going for core stats.
And all and on top of this, it's not at all out of line to consider saving throws of +8 and higher magical effects, too!
==Aelryinth
And it's bypassing the magical protection, which is MY point you're completely missing.I'm not comparing Fort saves and HP, Aelryinth. You're completely missing my point.
What I'm trying to point out is that since you ahve to roll that Fort save to resist injury poison, then you have been injured. You didn't evade it or anything. You were actually injured.
But there is not necessarily any "magical protection" involved. The character could be in a dead magic zone in a "dark and gritty" campaign, and hp would work just the same.
Besides, high HP is not the only thing that take high level martial characters beyond what a normal human can do.
And it's bypassing the magical protection, which is MY point you're completely missing.I'm not comparing Fort saves and HP, Aelryinth. You're completely missing my point.
What I'm trying to point out is that since you ahve to roll that Fort save to resist injury poison, then you have been injured. You didn't evade it or anything. You were actually injured.
But there is not necessarily any "magical protection" involved. The character could be in a dead magic zone in a "dark and gritty" campaign, and hp would work just the same.
Besides, high HP is not the only thing that take high level martial characters beyond what a normal human can do.
And are constructs in an AM shell still magical?
Sure they are. AM doesn't have the power to neutralize pure hit points anymore then it can de-animate a construct. The power is beyond it.
And I DID note that high saves are also effectively magical. So is high BAB, probably called 'bullet-time', and the multiple effective attacks that come from it.
Once you establish the foundation that these core elements are every bit as magical as spells in their own way, then the fact that you can cut through a lightning bolt with your sword like you can in half the cartoons out there should not be any great stretch of the imagination. It's just your BAB letting you do things no normal man can do.
I also like the Kirthfinder idea, that sets Caster Level and BAB at equal levels of importance. So even full BAB classes have a natural caster level = 1/2 their level, just like full casters get full BAB. If the martials can suddenly cast spells, they actually contribute some caster levels to the effort.
If you can't make these core things essential, important, and magical at the lowest levels, then anything derived from them at the high levels is going to face an uphill slog.
==Aelryinth
For the most part, the martials played in D&D and Pathfinder are mortals.They're most assuredly mortals... until 5th level or so. Then they start to gradually leave that behind. By the mid-teens, D&D/PF characters ARE demigods, regardless of how you fluff their non-divine births. Accepting and embracing that is what this is all about.
Alternatively, if we want everyone to stay mortal through 20th level, the system still needs to be adjusted. Most spells over 4th or 5th level will have to go away. Hit points enabling you to fall from an airplane in flight and land on your feet without losing a beat will have to be scaled back. Etc.
Frankly, it seems to me like a lot more work to stretch non-demigod play out for 20 levels, than it is to just fully bring the martials into the "demigods club" their caster friends already get to join.
Hit points isn't a problem, if you go ahead and explain that hit points from class levels are inherently wondrous in and of themselves.
The ability to fall from a plane, get up and walk away is 'magical' in every sense of the word. People gaining hit points are gaining inherent magical strength that enables them to avoid the greatest portion of actual physical injury.
The difference between PC's and most monsters is that for many monsters, hit points are 'substance'. They really are just that bloody tough and hard to kill. You have to do incredible amounts of physical harm to them before you break them.
For PC's, fighting a PC is an exercise in frustration for most monsters. That 50 point 'hit' that would claw a huge gouge in a rival dragon takes a few hairs off the beard of the dwarf as he steps aside. The mashing club that can crack a boulder just drives them down to a knee for a second. It's like, WTF is up with these guys? Why can't I land a clean hit and just squish them?
It's the realization that such things ARE magical that makes the difference between PC's and us. Really, the idea that hit points...
Suspension of disbelief for hit points is only a problem for those who want their fighters be mundane. Beowulf could fall from the sky and do not die, just fine.
Also, the "dwaf steps aside" is not true. We know it's not true, we want to lie ourselves to save our precious "realism", but the dwarf is taking those hits. Want a proof? Dragon's Crush ability. The dragon HAS landed on you. You didn't "step aside", the 20ton lizard is now right standing on your ribs. That's why you are pinned. Same goes when a monster with grab bite takes you and chew you for free damage every turn, for example. You aren't dodging that or stepping aside, you are being chewed. It's just that you don't die, because you are not bound by reality anymore since you got your 7th level. Unless you are trying to say that the dwarf is dodging the arrows, because he couldn't survive a direct arrow hit, but he can survive having 20ton lizard dancing on his ribs just fine. That doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?
Being able to walk into lava and out again is certainly a magical event, no mere fleshy toughness can possibly explain such a thing...it's totally unrealistic. "toughness' would have to represent energy resistance, and that's not what we're talking about. You're just burning through hit points!
Of course it's totally unrealistic. That's the point. But it is not more unrealistic than Beowulf surviving one week holding his breath. Which is the point: it doesn't have to be realistic. The game *ISN'T* realistic. There are a LOT of situations where the game shows us how powerful a high level character is, without having any posibility to "hide" it with "the dwarf step aside"
Wanna examples?
The dwarf is sleeping. Some goblin sneak in, put a dagger in his neck, and slice it. Coup d'grace. 1d4 damage, autocrit, for 2d4. No way he dies unless he gets 1 in his d20. Fun part: at high level, even an a greatsword might not work.
Dwarf jumps, volutarely, into a lava pool.
Dwarf falls from the Niagara Falls.
Dwarf is attacked by poisoned daggers, get hit 50 times, make 50 poison rolls. That's 50 daggers he couldn't "be dodging", because he made 50 injury poison rolls.
Dwarf is landed upon by a great wyrm, weighting roughly 100 tons.
Dwarf being bite, then chewed, then swallowed by a tyrannosaurus.
DWarf being grappled and contriscted by a str 30 KRAKEN.
Dwarf being grappled then *rended* by monsters with such ability.
Dwarf voluntarely drinking cicuta.
The dwarf isn't "dodging" any of those. He survives, for the same reasons he can grapple, trip and pin a rhinoceros with one hand tied to his back. Because he's awesome, and not some pedestrian bound-by-reality mundane guy
And so it's obviously magical, even though it doesn't radiate 'detect magic', which is entirely my point.
Once you acknowledge that these core abilities of HP, BAB and saves are themselves intrinsically magical, then making other abilities that are BETTER then those magical shouldn't seem like a stretch at all, should they?
==Aelryinth
I wouldn't say they are magical. They are beyond what a human being from the real world can do, but they are still mundane abilities.
'mundane' is what humans from the real world can do.
They are magical. Extraordinary and impossible, just not 'detecting' as magical.
I.e. I REALLY don't think being able to crash to the ground from an airplane, get up and walk away is mundane in the slightest.
==Aelryinth
Extraordinary abilities work in an anti-magic field.
Not everything awesome or beyond the norm is magical in nature.
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'mundane' is what humans from the real world can do.
They are magical. Extraordinary and impossible, just not 'detecting' as magical.
I.e. I REALLY don't think being able to crash to the ground from an airplane, get up and walk away is mundane in the slightest.
==Aelryinth
I think its pretty mundane for a Level 10 person. Mind you I've never met one in real life, so I'm not trying to apply my world's level 1-5 logic to a person that has never existed in our world.
Extraordinary abilities work in an anti-magic field.
Not everything awesome or beyond the norm is magical in nature.
Lotr Fellowship
the Hobbits go from 1st level Experts to 4th level PC classed characters with an Expert level tacked on, mixing aspects of fighter and rogue to varying levels
Legolas is a 7th level elven ranger with a few alternate racials and really high stats
Gimli is a 7th level dwarven ranger with a few alternate racials and really high stats
Aragorn is a 7th level half elf ranger with really high stats
Boromir is a Human with 2 levels of fighter and 3 of ranger
Gandalf is a CR 17 Planetar with 7 Wizard levels whom rarely uses both his planetar powers or his wizard spells. he mostly does Deus Ex Machina and the only times he uses his powers, is when no allies are watching, and off screen. gandalf is one of multiple but few planetars with wizard levels and one of few planetars in the world. he soloed a balor offscreen by both using the terrain to his advantage with his wizard intellect, and by going nova or alpha strike.
I can play a game that is exactly like the book/movies, without any one being higher than level 5 and 20 point buy, except for the NPC wizard. As tge Alexanrian article says, people tend to give their heroes high level/stats just because they are cool characters, not because it fits. Aragorn for example, doesn't have 18 str. That's the strongest humans have. Aragorn isn't a body builder. He's more like 16/14/14/10/12/12 or so. Same goes with Gimli. He isn't really an outstanding dwarf. He is not Balin or Durin or Thorin Oak shield.
Actually, thus is a novel about how *common people* stand against evil. They aren't Sigurd or Jason or Gilgamesh, blessed with huge phissical gifts.
true. level 5 works well enough, and level 6 and 7 aren't much higher. but 5-7ish is not level 15-20. they were at the upper end of normal, but they weren't anything special, and none of them had anything higher than a 16. they had lotsa gear though.
in fact, the level 7 would be an upper estimate of what they could do towards the latter half, though 5 makes more sense. they weren't tossing 4th level spells, chucking fireballs or any of that.
they could be level 5 or they could be level 7 and it wouldn't change much. they still have to worry about hordes of 1st level orcs, and while they don't have much higher than a 16, they had some powerful magic items to help them.
And so it's obviously magical, even though it doesn't radiate 'detect magic', which is entirely my point.
It is not. Just like Beowulf holding breath has nothing to do with magic either. The game has explicit definitions of what is magic and what is not. None of those abilities detect as magic, are dispelled, or cease to work in AMF.
However, we could agree they are extraordinary or supernatural, by the game definition. They aren't bound by the burden of real world physics.
And so it's obviously magical, even though it doesn't radiate 'detect magic', which is entirely my point.It is not. Just like Beowulf holding breath has nothing to do with magic either. The game has explicit definitions of what is magic and what is not. None of those abilities detect as magic, are dispelled, or cease to work in AMF.
However, we could agree they are extraordinary or supernatural, by the game definition. They aren't bound by the burden of real world physics.
the abilities are extraordinary, they are feats no human from earth could accomplish short of mythology. doesn't mean they are magical, just they are extraordinary feats no one in our own world can accomplish.
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I'm using 'magical' in the terms of 'not natural and unbound by reality or physics'.
You're using 'magical' in the sense of 'it detects as magical', which is an extremely limited, game-definition view of what is magical.
Floating islands in the sky are magical, but they don't need to detect as magic, either. It's just the way things are.
Being able to take a wooden bat and bash in a tank is magical, but doesn't detect as 'PF magic'.
Supernatural effects are magical, but not 'spellcaster magical'. There's tons of extraordinary effects that are magical, and physically impossible, but simply transcend 'PF Magical Energy' that they don't detect as such.
High BAB, HP, and saves are the latter. If you want to pigeon hole them as extraordinary, supernatural, and spell versions of magic, that's fine. But acknowledge they are more then natural, and then building off them should be easy.
If I have an ability that is blatantly impossible and unnatural, yet so transcendent that it doesn't even radiate as magic, it MUST be more powerful then 'spellcaster magic' on several levels. So WHY is the idea that such a power could cleave a spell in two, as it isn't even suppressed in an A-M field, so difficult to envision?
===Aelryinth
Extraordinary abilities work in an anti-magic field.
Not everything awesome or beyond the norm is magical in nature.
Extraordinary abilities seem to work for explanations to many things in this game.
Also, I'm interested in seeing how the final Brawler is in terms of martials and nice things.
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I agree that (Ex) should cover a lot of ground beyond what mundane people can accomplish.
After all, they're called "extraordinary abilities", not "ordinary abilities."
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I'm using 'magical' in the terms of 'not natural and unbound by reality or physics'.
Floating islands in the sky are magical, but they don't need to detect as magic, either. It's just the way things are.
in the context of D&D those islands would detect as magic.
but anyway, lets all agree that in most ways there is no comparison to real life for even a fighter. we should be willing to allow an option for players to have the ability to throw boulders the size of houses at dragons, i mean dragons arnt enough of a suspension of disbelief?
let them eat cake IMO.
I'm using 'magical' in the terms of 'not natural and unbound by reality or physics'.
You're using 'magical' in the sense of 'it detects as magical', which is an extremely limited, game-definition view of what is magical
Well, yes, as we are talking about Pathfinder, I use the pathfinder definition of magic.
Supernatural effects are magical, but not 'spellcaster magical'. There's tons of extraordinary effects that are magical, and physically impossible, but simply transcend 'PF Magical Energy' that they don't detect as such.
I know a lot of people from diverse religions who would cringe at your statement that God's miracles are, in fact, magic.
Gotta love Martials can't even survive hits without "magic" hp.
Because there is not, has never been, and probably will never be any substantial level of content support for E6 or E8 play.
You sure about that statement? Here's a simple way to measure content, let's look at how many monsters there are statted in Pathfinder by CR:
CR1:
189
CR2:
255
CR3:
271
CR4:
213
CR5:
250
CR6:
209
CR7:
185
CR8:
141
CR9:
142
CR10:
124
CR11:
100
CR12:
92
CR13:
82
CR14:
65
CR15:
100
CR16:
46
CR17:
51
CR18:
40
CR19:
40
CR20:
44
There are literally over 1,000 monsters that can be used to challenge an E6-8 party. It' actually around CR8 that the number of monsters begins to drop dramatically.
I'm using 'magical' in the terms of 'not natural and unbound by reality or physics'.
You're using 'magical' in the sense of 'it detects as magical', which is an extremely limited, game-definition view of what is magical
Well, yes, as we are talking about Pathfinder, I use the pathfinder definition of magic.
Supernatural effects are magical, but not 'spellcaster magical'. There's tons of extraordinary effects that are magical, and physically impossible, but simply transcend 'PF Magical Energy' that they don't detect as such.I know a lot of people from diverse religions who would cringe at your statement that God's miracles are, in fact, magic.
You want to tick off religious people? Build a ninth level cleric and show them that it can do every single one of Jesus miracles. And then some more. In a span of a couple of minutes. And all again the next day.
A 9th level cleric is better at miracles than Jesus. And people want Aragorn to be level 20th...
Actually, I don't think you can raise yourself after three days time. But that's about it, yeah.
Actually, I don't think you can raise yourself after three days time. But that's about it, yeah.
...Is there a way for clerics to cast Contingency? 'Cause if so I've got a solution for ya.
Or well, actually, they can't copy the feeding of the multitude. Create food & water only creates enough for 27 people at that level, and according to the gospels Jesus fed 5000.
But in general terms, Jesus was a 9th level cleric.
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Not really aegrisomnia casters can do things that would make old school deities go "Wait you can what!?". In a fight between nearly any real world deity and a 20th level Wizard... my money is on the Wizard. Plus "It's divine." doesn't really mean much. Anyone can say that about themselves, even the above level 20 Wizard. My Half-Elf Oracle like to call himself the god of half-elves for example and really for all intents and purposes he's right and I didn't need rules for being divine for it.
A level 20 Wizard could probably beat Iomedae (if she would just get some stats I promise I'll post a level 20 Wizard that can) in a fair fight, yes. Or Shiva, or Tiamat, or Zeus, or Odin, or Hecate. Honestly, against the Judeo-Christian God, saying one has unlimited power and actually having it are two very different things. All we see are a few miracles that 20th level Wizard could duplicate (there's even a thread on this). So... saying "This guy has infinite power" is kind of an unreasonable metric compare against. But more defined deities like Shiva are going to get wrecked by a level 20 Wizard without being a serious threat. And Zeus... lets be honest he's a level 13 Druid, he's got no chance.
Actually, I don't think you can raise yourself after three days time. But that's about it, yeah....Is there a way for clerics to cast Contingency? 'Cause if so I've got a solution for ya.
Also thought about that, but not at 9th level and regardless it's wonky if it'd work by RAW - it depends on whether you're still considered a creature 3 days after your death.
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Honestly, against the Judeo-Christian God, saying one has unlimited power and actually having it are two very different things. All we see are a few miracles that 20th level Wizard could duplicate (there's even a thread on this).Well, that's sort of moving the goalposts. What you're saying amounts to "if this deity isn't as strong as he's described as being by those who believe in him, then..." The miracles that are described are pretty clearly not meant to imply any limits in power.
Pathfinder developers' resistance to giving stat blocks to the deities is tantamount to their saying this: no matter how strong your wizard becomes, the only way to win is with the power of plot. What that means, to me, is that there is no way for a wizard of any level to beat Iomedae in a fair fight, no matter what your caster's phenomenal cosmic powers. I get that this might seem unfair, but them's the breaks as I see it.
You're the one moving the golaposts, dude. He explicitly said old school deities referring to the mithological deities, i.e. Zeus, Loki, Shiva, etc. You're the one ho brought Iomedae in to change the goalposts.
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Exactly. Against real world deities with defined capabailites (like Zeus, Loki, Shiva, Tiamat, etc.) a level 20 Wizard is going to make them look like chumps. And the point I was making was that compared to a 20th level Wizard, Jesus (and other deities whose acts are more defined) is nothing special, completely mundane in fact based on the actual acts performed. And yes a 20th level Wizard can raise from the dead and it'll take them a lot less then 3 days. Hell my wizards can die eight times before breakfast as a minor inconvenience.
Actually, I don't think you can raise yourself after three days time. But that's about it, yeah....Is there a way for clerics to cast Contingency? 'Cause if so I've got a solution for ya.
Maybe use a Lesser Planar Ally? Can a Hound Archon or Lantern Archon cast a scroll or use a wand?
You know you're going to die, so call a planar ally with the instruction of in three days casting the scroll you've already crafted to bring you back.If necessary we can bump Jesus to level 11 so he can cast Planar Ally and call a Couatl with it's +18 in UMD.
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Exactly. Against real world deities with defined capabailites (like Zeus, Loki, Shiva, Tiamat, etc.) a level 20 Wizard is going to make them look like chumps. And the point I was making was that compared to a 20th level Wizard, Jesus (and other deities whose acts are more defined) is nothing special, completely mundane in fact based on the actual acts performed. And yes a 20th level Wizard can raise from the dead and it'll take them a lot less then 3 days. Hell my wizards can die eight times before breakfast as a minor inconvenience.If you go back and read my original point, it's that there's a difference between what someone does and what someone is capable of doing.
You might follow a 20th level wizard for a day and never see him cast anything other than a cantrip. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that the wizard is limited to casting only cantrips. Maybe he just didn't feel like casting anything more powerful that day?
Well, unless you can demonstrate what the Jesus is capable of outside of what he's actual done, I'd say we have to go with the pretty well defined capabilities of the Wizard. And sure the Wizard might do nothing more impressive then a cantrip, but if he was say... trying to recruit followers by performing miracles, he might bring his A game and not just turn water into wine and come back from the dead really really late.
And really I was referring to the fact that divinity isn't worth anything, its a meaningless term. It says absolutely nothing about the power or skill of the noun its applied to. Hell, I've had divine cheesecake. Guess the Wizard can't top that either since I applied the word divine to it.
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Being able to walk into lava and out again is certainly a magical event, no mere fleshy toughness can possibly explain such a thing...it's totally unrealistic. "toughness' would have to represent energy resistance, and that's not what we're talking about. You're just burning through hit points!Of course it's totally unrealistic. That's the point. But it is not more unrealistic than Beowulf surviving one week holding his breath. Which is the point: it doesn't have to be realistic. The game *ISN'T* realistic. There are a LOT of situations where the game shows us how powerful a high level character is, without having any posibility to "hide" it with "the dwarf step aside"
Wanna examples?
The dwarf is sleeping. Some goblin sneak in, put a dagger in his neck, and slice it. Coup d'grace. 1d4 damage, autocrit, for 2d4. No way he dies unless he gets 1 in his d20. Fun part: at high level, even an a greatsword might not work.
Dwarf jumps, volutarely, into a lava pool.
Dwarf falls from the Niagara Falls.
Dwarf is attacked by poisoned daggers, get hit 50 times, make 50 poison rolls. That's 50 daggers he couldn't "be dodging", because he made 50 injury poison rolls.
Dwarf is landed upon by a great wyrm, weighting roughly 100 tons.
Dwarf being bite, then chewed, then swallowed by a tyrannosaurus.
DWarf being grappled and contriscted by a str 30 KRAKEN.
Dwarf being grappled then *rended* by monsters with such ability.
Dwarf voluntarely drinking cicuta.
The dwarf isn't "dodging" any of those. He survives, for the same reasons he can grapple, trip and pin a rhinoceros with one hand tied to his back. Because he's awesome, and not some pedestrian bound-by-reality mundane guy
Hah! This Dwarf guy is a sport!
Well, unless you can demonstrate what the Jesus is capable of outside of what he's actual done, I'd say we have to go with the pretty well defined capabilities of the Wizard.If you're prepared to admit the parts of the Bible that say Jesus performed those miracles, why are you so hesitant to admit the parts of the Bible that say Jesus is God and God has unlimited power? The Judeo-Christian God of all creation is less like an in-game deity like Iomedae and is more like the GM. Can a level 20 wizard beat the GM? What would that even mean? The GM can just make your character never have been.
Regarding "divinity" in the game world, I guess rather than just talking over each other, we might as well just let it go. We've both made our points and this is probable one of those "agree to disagree" situations. In-game, divinity means something - and not in the cheesecake sense.
Because one can be determined: Ie. Jesus did X. We know what he did, for example he can turn water into wine. No one is going to argue he can turn rocks into wine. The other is descriptive: The son of God. What does that mean in terms of thing can be done? Absolutely nothing.
Basically if I write on my Wizard's sheet "The son of Iomedae." Does that change my Wizard's abiltiies? Not in the slightest. And no in game divinity does not mean anything, there are no rules for it. It is purely a descriptive term. Again I could say my Wizard is divine and it would have the same effect as saying Iomedae is divine... ie. none at all.