DMDM's Guide to the Diabolist -- Schools and Spells

[Douglas Muir 406]

Yet another installment of the guide.

Doug M.

* * * * *

If you're a wizard, what schools are good, and what spells should you take?

Abjuration -- This is a weak school for most purposes, but for a Diabolist it's actually okay. You're going to be taking a lot of abjuration spells anyway. And if you take the banishment subschool, at 8th level you get the Aura of Banishment, which from your POV is a highly desirable safety buff. (Of course, this means you have to be a wizard for eight levels before starting on Diabolist.)

Conjurer -- Obvious, right? The Infernal Binder subschool, while not as great as you might hope, is pretty good for you... +3 to Knowledge (Planes), the chance to grab other peoples' summoned monsters, and an imp familiar. (Once you get the imp companion you end up with an imp on each shoulder. One serves you, the other serves Hell.) The teleportation subschool is also fine, though limited by the fact that it uses wizard levels, so your dimension door power will probably never get beyond 15'.

Divination -- This is almost worth taking just for the Prescience power of the Foresight subschool. You get to double-roll every Cha check, and things like rolls to overcome SR as well. This is huge. Throw in the ability to act in a surprise round and a nice little Init bonus, and this school is surprisingly strong for you. Of course, now you have to be a Diviner and take a bunch of Divination spells. Nothing's perfect.

Enchantment -- Not a strong school for a class that's blasting a lot and dealing with creatures with SR and high Will saves. Still, unlike most wizards you actually use Bluff and Diplomacy.

Evocation -- A fine school for you. The Admixture subschool is great for a blaster, and you'll end up with five types instead of four.

Illusion -- Thematic, but not a good choice mechanically. None of the school or subschool powers will help you do what you do best.

Necromancy -- See Illusion.

Transmutation -- +2 to Con or Dex by the time you become a Diabolist is pretty sweet. Then you take the Enhancement subschool and use Augment to buff your minions. If you take 8 levels of wizard, then the Perfection of Self power -- +4 to any stat for one round -- has all kinds of uses; check if your DM will allow it to affect opposed Cha checks.

Spells -- This is a partial list of spells that are likely to be of interest to you.

Level 1

Protection from Evil/whatever -- Kind of a no-brainer.

Level 2

Eagle's Splendor -- Once you're 11th level (or 6th with Extend Spell) you can cast this before your calling and get the benefit of it on Cha checks.
Fox's Cunning -- As Eagle's Splendor if you're an Int-based caster.
Misdirection -- If you're living someplace where having an evil aura is an issue.
Owl's Wisdom -- As Eagle's Splendor if you're a Wis-based caster.
See Invisibility -- Many devils can go invisible at will. Once you have the money, pay the 5,000 gp to have Permanency cast so you have this at all times.

Level 3

Agonize -- A spell to punish outsiders that... allows SR and a Fort save, which is most outsiders' best save. Still, worth a try, especially as it's the only spell that specifically addresses this need for you.
Haste -- I hate this spell; it's way overpowered for third level, which is why everyone uses it. Nonetheless, if you're leading a bunch of called creatures into battle, it's a very useful tactical mass buff.
Magic Circle Against Evil/whatever -- You must have this spell.
Protection from Energy -- Get it if you're regularly conjuring elementals or other creatures that use a particular energy attack.

Level 4

Enervation -- A fine spell for dealing with difficult outsiders. You did take Spell Penetration, right?
Dimensional Anchor -- You must have this spell.
Lesser Planar Binding -- You must have this spell.
Scrying -- If you're sending your conjured creatures out on missions, you'll want to be able to keep track of them. Make sure you get a toenail clipping or something.

Level 5

Planar Adaptation -- If you're planning to visit Hell at some point.
Planar Binding -- You must have this spell.
Dismissal -- This should be a great spell, but is merely an okay one, because it is affected by SR and also grants a Will save. That said, if something gets loose, this is a spell to have ready.

Level 6
Antimagic Field -- Works on summoned creatures but not conjured ones.
Geas-Quest -- SR but *no* saving throw. Use this to make sure your creatures are staying in line, especially the high Will-save ones.
Contingency -- At 15th level, this can be used to auto-teleport you away from danger. At lower levels, it can be used to auto-activate a range of buffs and other helpful effects.
Legend Lore -- You can use this to get information on named individual outsiders.

Level 7

Banishment -- More powerful version of Dismissal.
Greater Planar Binding -- You must have this spell.
Teleport Trap -- If you've made some enemies among outsiders (and by this point in your career, you probably have) cast this on your living quarters every couple of weeks. Be creative about what's waiting at the destination, but a permanent Alarm spell and some symbols or other outsider-affecting magical traps are probably good.
Trap the Soul -- Not actually that great unless you know the creature's name, or have lots and lots of money to burn on gems that shatter when the spell fails.

Level 8

Binding -- A powerful bargaining tool. I'd rule that the demonstrated ability to bind outsiders of a particular type would give you a bonus on your Cha checks against outsiders of that same type -- "Do you want to end up like Bob here?" Check whether your DM agrees.
Dimensional Lock -- If you're high enough level, and don't care about whatever attention the "shimmering emerald barrier" attracts, cast this periodically to ward your quarters against unwanted visitors from other planes.
Euphoric Tranquility -- No Will save! Does get SR, unfortunately.
Moment of Prescience -- Win that Cha check!
Polar Ray -- Swap in hellfire to make this a very flexible ranged touch attack.
Sympathy -- If you cast this on your conjuring area, it can make the called creature happy to be there; I'd rule that this would move its attitude a step or two to the better. Unfortunately the creature gets a Will save and SR too.

Level 9

Gate

[Peter Stewart]

I'm sorry, but is there really a need for like six different threads from you for your 'guide'? Couldn't you just post updates to a single thread rather than spam the forums?

[Douglas Muir 406]

As I've said a couple of times now, these are pieces of a draft, and I'm looking for feedback and comment. Several people have pointed out useful spells and tricks that will be included in the final version. (Several more pointed out an embarrassing error I made with the magic circle spell). The final goal is to collect them all into a google doc that can join the other guides.

Why multiple threads? Well, you'll notice that about half of these are about Planar Bindings and what you can do with them. Those will be incorporated in the guide, but they're also of general interest to anyone who might use those spells. So I think it makes sense to post them separately.

Anyway: I've been posting these at the rate of about one per day -- six posts in just over a week. I honestly don't think that's "spamming the forums". YMMV. In any event there's only one or at most two posts left in this series, and then it's done.

Doug M.

[Master of the Dark Triad]

Peter Stewart wrote:

I'm sorry, but is there really a need for like six different threads from you for your 'guide'? Couldn't you just post updates to a single thread rather than spam the forums?

If you don't like a thread, did you know you don't have to go on it? Most people have no problem with these threads about the diabolist.

I personally really enjoy reading these. Thanks Doug!

[Ross Byers]

Are you planning a spell guide for sorcerers? Things like 'here are your mandatory support spells: magic circle against X, dimensional anchor and dismissal (for when critter escapes)' and if it is worthwhile to trade dismissal for banishment as you level up or if you have a better use for the higher-level spell known. Does this tradeoff change if you have Heighten Spell to change dimissal's DC? Pointing out which levels of Spells Known are pinched the most and what other spells you need to remember you won't be able to take.

Similarly, do you trade lesser planar binding for a different spell when you get planar binding, or are more attempts per day worthwhile?

Also, a correction: 'Antimagic Field -- Works on summoned creatures but not conjured ones. ' Summoned creatures are still conjured. The word you wanted was 'called'.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Ross Byers wrote:

Are you planning a spell guide for sorcerers?

Honestly, this guide is already kinda getting out of hand. It's WAY longer than I thought it would be. I keep turning up rabbits. At some point I just have to say "enough" and leave the rest to the boards.

Quote:

Similarly, do you trade lesser planar binding for a different spell when you get planar binding, or are more attempts per day worthwhile?

If it were my character, I'd say don't take the planar binding spells as your very first spell known at that level -- wait one level until you have another (plus your bloodline spell). That's annoying (it means you're two whole levels behind the wizard in accessing these spells) but the alternative is to reach 10th level and have PB be your *only* 5th level spell, and so forth. So you'd take LPB at 11th level, and PB at 13th. I think this is the less bad way to play it. However, it means that by the time you're throwing PB, LPB is really not much good any more; at 13th level, a 6 or less HD monster just isn't all that useful. So for sure I'd swap it out.

Doug M.

[Grokk_Bloodfist]

Would this apply to sorcerors? How would you handle it?
EDIT: Sorry I just saw the above post. Maybe just a bare bones skeleton approach for sorcerors then?

I'm playing a human sorceror (infernalist) for a Way of the Wicked campaign and planning on taking Diabolist at level 8 (after 7th level Sorceror feat is obtained).

My notes suggest the only *critical* spells for sorceror/diabolists are:
- Magic circle
- (lesser/greater) Planar Binding
- Dimensional Anchor

Also, LPB can be retrained for PB and PB for GPB as you level so you minimise on redundant spells.

The rest I can spend on spells as normal. I am leaning towards a summoning/conjuring and some debuffing and battlefield control.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Going into Diabolist at level 8 makes sense for a sorceror. You can pick up LPB at level 10 if you really want to attack this PrC aggressively; otherwise, wait until level 11.

You're right about Magic Circle and Dim Anchor -- you'll need to have these as part of your repertoire. Dim Anchor is actually pretty useful in fighting outsiders and other annoying teleporters, so not actually a wasted slot. Magic Circle, yes, it's a slot tax. What can you do. Think of it as one way the game balances the sorceror being a Cha-based caster.

With LPB, you'll want to summon a lot of barbazu and hell hounds. Emphasis on A LOT. At 11th level, CR 3 and 5 monsters aren't that useful unless you have a crapload of them. Fortunately for you, you can! Lesser Planar Binding costs you nothing but the casting time, plus the very occasional inconvenience of something breaking loose. (At this level, that really shouldn't be a problem. If you can't deal with a cranky barbazu at 11th level, you should be in another line of business.) So, you just cast and cast until you have enough called creatures to get the job done. A pack of a dozen hell hounds is CR 10, and so is a squad of six barbazu -- that's what you should be shooting for.

Doug M.

[Ross Byers]

Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:

Would this apply to sorcerors? How would you handle it?

EDIT: Sorry I just saw the above post. Maybe just a bare bones skeleton approach for sorcerors then?

I'm playing a human sorceror (infernalist) for a Way of the Wicked campaign and planning on taking Diabolist at level 8 (after 7th level Sorceror feat is obtained).

My notes suggest the only *critical* spells for sorceror/diabolists are:
- Magic circle
- (lesser/greater) Planar Binding
- Dimensional Anchor

Also, LPB can be retrained for PB and PB for GPB as you level so you minimise on redundant spells.

The rest I can spend on spells as normal. I am leaning towards a summoning/conjuring and some debuffing and battlefield control.

Banishment and dismissal aren't critical, in that you can use planar binding without them, but like dimensional anchor it's good to have against Outsiders anyway, and you can use it against planar binding gone bad or if a formerly bound creature comes back around for revenge.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Ross Byers wrote:

Banishment and dismissal aren't critical, in that you can use planar binding without them, but like dimensional anchor it's good to have against Outsiders anyway, and you can use it against planar binding gone bad or if a formerly bound creature comes back around for revenge.

Banishment and Dismissal are important parts of a wizard's Planar Binding toolkit, but they're a lot lower priority for a sorceror.

The problem is that, in addition to using up a precious spell-known slot, they're just not all that good at what they do, because allow a Will save AND Spell Resistance. They're still potential lifesavers, but... well, run the numbers. Say you're 12th level and you use Planar Binding to call a Vrock demon. Uh oh, natural 1 on your Cha check: cackling with glee, the demon breaks out of your circle and attacks. You cast Dismissal! Well... let's say you have Spell Penetration or are an elf. (Better have at least one of those if you're in the demon-calling game). So with +14, you need a 6 to overcome its SR 20. You'll succeed 75% of the time. Now it gets a Will save. If your casting stat is 26, the save DC is 23. It has +6 Will, so it needs a 17 to save, so you'll succeed 80% of the time. However, your NET chance of success is 75% x 80%, or 60%. Better than a coin flip, but...

For a sorceror, unless you're playing in a campaign that's crawling with outsiders, you might be better off with a burly barbarian cohort who can melee the demon while you use more conventional spells to shut it down.

Doug M.

[Ross Byers]

Fair enough. My infernal sorcerer is in a WotR game, so he'll likely have plenty of other targets to dismiss. (He's also level 2 in a PbP, so this is largely academic for quite some time.)

[Grokk_Bloodfist]

I was planning on a an arcane caster cohort ("apprentice") either a sorceror or wizard who is utterly besotted with her and crafts items in an effort to try and appease her and make her happy. Maybe not "optimal" but seems pretty amusing. My character loves jewelry and trinkets.

As we're playing Way of the Wicked, I do have the option of taking Leadership and getting Grumblejack as a cohort, or another character as muscle. I thought at first about coming up with a graveknight champion as her muscle but the template and CR knocks it out of the park.

Open to ideas....

Oh speaking of retainers

:

We've just passed Thorn's trials and after some old fashioned torture, diplomacy and intimidate rolls, we've corrupted Timeon the squire and turned him to the worship of Asmodeus. We got him to renounce his vows to Mitra three times, swear loyalty to Asmodeus and then kill Sir Balin. So that's another option but I think the anti-paladin is taking that one using the Squire feat.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Grokk, fun!

WotW, the details depend on your DM, but I think a Diabolist would be a really good fit here. Let your DM know in advance that's what you're building towards.

Doug M.

[Grokk_Bloodfist]

I have. He is cool with Diabolist.

My GM's only real concern is I do not abuse the lack of a hard cap on bound monsters I can summon and not zerg the table with a dozen monsters at once. This is fine. I wasn't planning on binding heaps but a handful of powerful ones to use selectively.

That said I have a list I definitely want to get:
- Nightmare (mount)
- Lilin/Succubus (infiltrator - would prefer an infernal version but oh well)
- Contract Devil (to help broker deals between other mortals and Hell)
- And eventually an Immolation Devil for the end game.

Would like something that can offer healing since our party has no cleric. Looking for options here - preferably infernal ones.

[Douglas Muir 406]

If you want to use the Nightmare, throw a rank or two into the Ride skill.

The lilin is kind of a cheap knockoff of the succubus. Her 7 HD mean that, annoyingly, you can't call using Lesser Planar Binding -- you have to wait until 11th level, at which point a CR 6 devil is kinda meh. Note that the lilin lacks the succubus' powers of mindreading and disguise. She does have Unholy Aura, which is a very nice buff that's somewhat nerfed by a short duration. Honestly, the lilim is about as useful in combat as in infiltration.

Contract devil, absolutely.

Doug M.

[Grokk_Bloodfist]

Any outsiders (preferrably infernal) worth binding that can sub for a cleric? Don't want to bind a solar or planetar unless I am out of options.

[Douglas Muir 406]

What cleric powers are you looking for? The aeons often have clerical spells -- the Akhana aeon can cure stuff -- and the Morrigna psychopomp casts like a 12th level inquisitor.

Doug M.