insaneogeddon |
Bears and Lions (and bears and bulls) have fought - fights were set up in the gold rush days.
Bears won 100% of the time.
Bears have thicker skin and fur.
Cats have a far lighter bone structure and skull design that has to fit everything in a smaller area. As such every time lions were shattered and broken or had their skulls crushed before they could do anything of relevance to the bear. EVERY TIME.
Cuàn |
Tigers would kill a bear, though. As I recall, they're capable of crushing a bear's skull and snapping their necks with their paws. Lions are fairly weak as big cats go; tigers are the largest and most dangerous in an actual fight from what I remember.
That's only true for Siberian tigers though, every other variety is a lot weaker. Also keep in mind that Siberian tigers do not live in the same area as the biggest bears and even then there are plenty records of bears killing tigers.
As for the skull crushing, a gorilla could easily crush their skulls in one of it's hands. The neck snapping is nonsense. It might happen but that is the result of a pounce and hitting the bear with a lot more force than just a swat with a paw.
So yes, bears do need more love. Everyone seems to adore those stinky felines but I'd see them all reduced to rugs.
insaneogeddon |
Tigers would kill a bear, though. As I recall, they're capable of crushing a bear's skull and snapping their necks with their paws. Lions are fairly weak as big cats go; tigers are the largest and most dangerous in an actual fight from what I remember.
Recall from where. Tigers and Lions are so close they can inter breed. Tigers are a little bigger (50kgs odd) but their still far more fragile (a necessity if your an 'agile' animal).
In actual fights between lions and tigers (there have been many historically. Tigers tend to win but its not 100% (like bears vs lions).Contemporary eye witness accounts from a lion/tiger tamer in 1937 indicate tigers win by rolling on their back and holding the lion .. not a tactic that will be particularly effective on a bear certainly no pouncing.
insaneogeddon |
Also in nature its usually the biomass with the greater mass. Like hyenas chasing off lions etc.
Max you're dealing with a 1250 lb. bear, a 800 lb. Tiger and a 600 lb. lion.
If you're looking at average weights well then you have a 700 lb bear, a 500 lb. Tiger and a 450 lb. Lion.
As for bite 'damage'
Lion - 691 PSI
Siberian Tiger - 950 PSI
Grizzly Bear - 1250 PSI
Bears have denser bones, thicker and courser fur and a fat layer.
Don't get me wrong cats are sleeker, sexier,more agile and feel nice to the touch but chr doesn't win fights! Pity the monster entries were written by people whose best friends are cats or who only ever dated crazy cat ladies!
Detect Magic |
Numerian Laser Sharks are seriously underpowered in the d20/Pathfinder system. Bears can wait.
Aaron Bitman |
I've been looking at the various bears in the bestiary, and it looks like they are uniformly inferior to equal CR cats. compare the Grizzly bear (A cr 5 bear) to a Tiger a CR 4 cat. The cat has better ability scores, more attacks, pounce, and more strength. To add insult to injury, the cat has more hit dice, so the bear does not even really win out with his higher Con.
Setting aside the jokes and real-world assessments of comparative animal deadliness, I think that the issue here is CR inaccuracy. There was this thread once about monsters overpowered for their CR, with a title like Deadliest Bestiary Creatures, and the OP mentioned lions and tigers here.
SlimGauge |
Mynd you, moose bites
Kan be pretti nasti
A Møøse once bit my sister ...
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink".
Wraithkin |
Guys.
A bear is different creature than a cat. They both have strengths and weaknesses.
A bear is better when a bear can be a bear.
A cat is better when a cat can be cat.
When a bear tries to be cat, it's op if I take the cat archetype for bears and apply it to the bear. This means that the cat is clearly mechanically inferior and should be skinned and used as a rug in front of my fire.
Yeesh. We should close this down right meow.
The Beard |
Guys.
A bear is different creature than a cat. They both have strengths and weaknesses.
A bear is better when a bear can be a bear.
A cat is better when a cat can be cat.
When a bear tries to be cat, it's op if I take the cat archetype for bears and apply it to the bear. This means that the cat is clearly mechanically inferior and should be skinned and used as a rug in front of my fire.
Yeesh. We should close this down right meow.
My oh my, how catty of you.
Wraithkin |
Wraithkin wrote:My oh my, how catty of you.Guys.
A bear is different creature than a cat. They both have strengths and weaknesses.
A bear is better when a bear can be a bear.
A cat is better when a cat can be cat.
When a bear tries to be cat, it's op if I take the cat archetype for bears and apply it to the bear. This means that the cat is clearly mechanically inferior and should be skinned and used as a rug in front of my fire.
Yeesh. We should close this down right meow.
You'd rather pretend everything is purrfect?
I think that this game of cat and mouse if fun.
Though, it is making me hungry, my stomach is growling.
The Beard |
Look for the bear necessities
The simple bear necessities
Forget about your worries and your strife
I mean the bear necessities
Old Mother Nature's recipes
That brings the bear necessities of life
Wherever I wander, wherever I roam
I couldn't be fonder of my big home
The bees are buzzin' in the tree
To make some honey just for me
When you look under the rocks and plants
And take a glance at the fancy ants
Then maybe try a few
The bear necessities of life will come to you
They'll come to you!
Look for the bear necessities
The simple bear necessities
Forget about your worries and your strife
I mean the ear necessities
That's why a bear can rest at ease
With just the bear necessities of life
Now when you pick a pawpaw
Or a prickly pear
And you prick a raw paw
Next time beware
Don't pick the prickly pear by the paw
When you pick a pear
Try to use the claw
But you don't need to use the claw
When you pick a pear of the big pawpaw
Have I given you a clue ?
The bear necessities of life will come to you
They'll come to you!
So just try and relax, yeah cool it
Fall apart in my backyard
'Cause let me tell you something little britches
If you act like that bee acts, uh uh
You're working too hard
And don't spend your time lookin' around
For something you want that can't be found
When you find out you can live without it
And go along not thinkin' about it
I'll tell you something true
The bear necessities of life will come to you
Cranky Dog |
There has been a drop in puns, and too many are cat related. Time to fix this:
To the OP, ursineuating that there is a conspiracy against bears?
You have to askoalat of questions to find the truth, raise a lot of hullabaloo while keeping the serenity of an old grizzly yogi master. You were beorn for this!
It may need a lot of pandaring to the right people who may be your polar opposites. Your true allies may be hidden and you need to smokey them out and get the drop on them!
It doesn't matter if you lose or winnie the pooh slinging match from such a debate, I can't bear to see anyone leave empty handed.
[rereads what was just written]
...
...
...
...
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I'm banned, aren't I?
The Beard |
Y'know, Owlbears are actually weaker than Grizzly bears.
Whoever made owlbears, made a fantasy creature weaker than its mundane counterpart. Having an owl head and feathers just isn't as good as being a bear.
See if you keep that opinion after listening to some horror stories of people that've been playing for decades. I tell ya, those maulings were hard to bear.