Vetala vampire and modify memory. Can I Perfect it?


Rules Questions


Ok, building a BBEG who's a manipulator. His spell of choice is modify memory, for which he has taken SF, GSF and Spell Perfection in order to get the DC up as high as possible. Vetala vampires get modify memory as a side effect while using Drain Prana. Would the Spell Perfection and other feat enhancements to the spell also effect the Drain Prana's modify memory DC?


By RAW, no--it is a Supernatural ability, not a spell. It would be enhanced by Ability Focus, not Spell Focus.

However, considering that you are the DM and this is a customized BBEG, it would be perfectly reasonable as a house-rule.


Side question, how do you transform your character into a Vetala Vampire and maintain the balance of the game? Becoming this vampire race (I guess you call it a race) adds +2 to your CR. Would you lower your character by 2 levels to compensate? Sort of like you were level drained?


It's a supernatural ability, not a spell-like, so I'd say no.


Darthslash wrote:
Side question, how do you transform your character into a Vetala Vampire and maintain the balance of the game? Becoming this vampire race (I guess you call it a race) adds +2 to your CR. Would you lower your character by 2 levels to compensate? Sort of like you were level drained?

CR isn't meant to measure player power. 3.0 and 3.5 had a separate "level adjustment" number--basically, if your level adjustment is +3, then it is like you are a multiclass (monster/template) 3/whatever other classes.

The standard vampire in 3.5 has a level adjustment of +8. That's a lot, and not normally worth it for a player-character. It's also a big over-estimate (I'd probably assign it closer to a +3-6 level adjustment). Also, the abilities aren't worth the same for everyone, so a single LA number isn't really going to work most of the time. The only way to really balance it would be for the GM to estimate how much it is worth for that particular PC in that particular campaign.


@137ben- I thought since the ability says "Additionally, the victim is affected by the spell modify memory, as if the vetala had spent 5 minutes concentrating" that the actual spell would be referenced, allowing the spell feats to come into play, but I see your point. It's the ability that is being used, not the spell itself. I'm leaning towards house-ruling it, but I'm going to have to think more about this.

@Darthslash- sort of. A character has a CR equal to its level -1, so to build a CR16 opponent, I went 15th level with a CR +2 template. Keep in mind, this is an NPC I'm building, not a player character. I'm not sure how I'd rule it if a PC wanted to do this. I'd likely have him take two level of "vampire" in order to balance out the template boost.


Blood of the Night (Pathfinder Player Companion) wrote:
Advanced Race Guide. GMs using the Advanced Race Guide should treat all true vampire races as having the monstrous power level (20+ race points), as each of them has over 150 RP worth of special abilities. Using the guidelines in the Challenging Advanced and Monstrous Races sidebar (Advanced Race Guide 219), treat a level 1-5 vampire party as +5 levels, level 6-10 as +4 levels, level 11-15 as +3 levels, and level 16-20 as +2 levels.

That's how it is officially handled for PCs. Personally, though, as a frequent monstrous-characters player and GM, I just calculate CR for PCs and NPCs alike. It's easier for me and doesn't seem to break anything too much. When I'm the player, my GM doesn't care for the rules and does things pretty arbitrarily so CR or level wouldn't matter anyway, and when I'm GM, I'm adjusting with CR or by common sense on the spot.


Darthslash wrote:
Side question, how do you transform your character into a Vetala Vampire and maintain the balance of the game? Becoming this vampire race (I guess you call it a race) adds +2 to your CR. Would you lower your character by 2 levels to compensate? Sort of like you were level drained?

No negative level is really legitimate. Since it's done... it's done, end of the matter. It should be the encounters' level adjusting. Also, you don't become a vetala starting starting Adulthood (same source I already quoted), unless it is specific for one campaign and character, and by the way children are limited, by raw, to NPC classes. So, for a PC, he should start it with the vetala template if he wants it, because he will not be able to obtain it thereafter.

And side side question, it's been over one week I've been dying on the vetala mechanics, and I finally posted my worries on an Advice thread, but noone seemed to want to save me... *sniff* If one of the gentleman here having handled a vetala or preparing to handle one would care to check it out, at least for the rule issues ? (I put it on the other side because there were also adjudication and rp matters.)

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