I'm joining a game next week where everyone else has already chosen the character, I hate being the last player to pick because I feel like I have to fill the gaps they leave.
We have a Musket Master Gunslinger, a Wizard and a Druid, only the Gunslinger doesn't really care about optimization.
The main gap I see is skills and having a party face, but I'm not really sure which direction I want to go with that. I'm not really a big fan of being a rogue.
Ideas?
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I'm joining a game next week where everyone else has already chosen the character, I hate being the last player to pick because I feel like I have to fill the gaps they leave.
We have a Musket Master Gunslinger, a Wizard and a Druid, only the Gunslinger doesn't really care about optimization.
The main gap I see is skills and having a party face, but I'm not really sure which direction I want to go with that. I'm not really a big fan of being a rogue.
Ideas?
Check out the bard Archaeologist.
Top suggestions
Charisma Casters
Bard
Oracle
Skald (Adv Class Playtest, bard-barbarian)
Charisma Melee
Ninja (rogue with magic powers)
Swashbuckler (Adv Class Playtest, fighter-gunslinger )
These could be good too, but hurt a bit for skills
Melee
Paladin
Cavalier
Charisma Casters
Sorcerer or summoner with the right traits (or bloodlines)
Right skills, but not charisma focused
Investigator (Adv Class Playtest, rogue-alchemist, Int based)
I'm strongly considering being an Oracle or a Bard now. How viable is a warrior style Oracle? A Swashbuckler would be cool but they seem really MAD in their current incarnation.
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You definitely need a damage-dealer, especially if that's a caster druid and not a melee druid. I highly recommend an Oracle with either the Battle or Metal mysteries - either will get you heavy armor and martial weapon proficiency with a single revelation, plus a bevy of other things. Just check out some of the battle revelations, like this one:
Weapon Mastery (Ex): Select one weapon with which you are proficient. You gain Weapon Focus with that weapon. At 8th level, you gain Improved Critical with that weapon. At 12th level, you gain Greater Weapon Focus with that weapon. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.
That's three feats for the price of one! (Remember you can use the Extra Revelation feat to grab revelations.) Not to mention you have access to some of the best buffing spells in the game to make up for your BAB difference. And with a high charisma and 4 skill ranks/level (and Diplomacy and Sense Motive as class skills), you're plenty capable as a party face. Let the wizard handle knowledges, the musket master Dex skills, and the druid survival/nature stuff.
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Ninja, Inquisitor, Bard, Samurai/Cavalier or depending upon party alignment, paladin could all fill portions of face/skill roles.
Ninja might be a bit rough since that would give you another party member who is relying on someone else to take the hits for him. (Wizard and gunslinger do by default, druid may or may not be able to mix it up). Samurai/Cavalier or Paladin would probably be your best bets to fill the face role and provide someone who is comfortable without someone else to hide behind or provide a flank or distraction. Inquistor or (to a lesser degree) arcane duelist bard could probably pull that off as well though. They would fill the face/skill role more completely, but your party members would be correspondingly less able to hide behind them.
Play a paladin. Take a trait that gives you diplomacy and a bonus. Take feats to make yourself a tank. Now don't worry about traps; make your saves. In the meantime use your decent Cha and diplomacy to be the face. Also, destroy your enemies with righteous wrath while smiting them to kingdom come.
Who needs skills when you simply endure...
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Don't feel that way. Play what you want; it's the GM's job to adapt the adventure to the capabilities of the PCs, not the other way around.
Zhayne has some good advice, but it also is fine and fun to fill in the missing party role, especially the group you are joining, which is lacking some melee punch- gunslinger and druid aren't great front line combatants, though both will be very useful overall.
Paladin, Fighter, Barbarian; then Ranger or Inquisitor.
Your party lacks a front line damage-dealer. You will need that. The gunslinger is definitely capable, but there is always a role for a Fighter. The Fighter does combat. Seems you've got most other things covered, the other 3 can make up for skills. Party face can also be an intimidating brute with a big sword/axe/hammer/bow.
Paladin can also act as a healer.
Fighters smash stuff. Very handy, versatile weapon and armor bonuses.
Barbarians also smash stuff, a bit better than fighters w/rage.
If that is the party I'm joining, I'm considering a melee character. Ranger or Inquisitor are also good options, as they can confer attack bonuses to allies like a bard but can also stand their ground in melee. Rogues and ninjas are fun but cannot take damage as a primary melee.
Or go Summoner, tank your eidolon and summoned monster lists to aid allies, provide skills, or as extra combatants, then sit back and go the battlefield control route. Pit spells are very effective.
I'm heavily leaning towards a melee focused Oracle, they seem really viable and fun. I wouldn't mind being a Ranger or Inquisitor that is flavoured as a monster hunter though. And I have yet to try a tag team Summoner, it might be fun to try out even though it seems suboptimal.
A lore warden or tactician fighter to give you the skill points to be a viable face; take a trait or two for necessary class skills and then build toward osyluth guile and/or a general intimidate build.
I'd play either an Oracle of Battle or a Paladin. If the party is cool with it, I'd probably be a Paladin in that grouping.
I would go either bard or Inquisitor.
Both can hold their own in melee and you can
help with cures, along with the druid.
Inquisitor can take the Conversion domain to help with being the face.
If you need trapping, both are capable with the right traits.
You have an in depth understanding of clockwork mechanisms and other mechanical wonders.
Benefit: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Disable Device checks, and Disable Device becomes a class skill for you.
Section 15: Copyright Notice - Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Balance
Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths of Balance. © 2011, Paizo Publishing, LLC; Author: Colin McComb.
Growing up in a dangerous area, you were constantly surrounded by traps that had been set up to defend your lair from intruders. Sometimes these dangers were so densely packed that you couldn't go more than a couple feet down a tunnel without encountering a new way to die.
Benefit(s): You gain a +1 trait bonus on Craft (traps) checks, and gain a +1 bonus to AC against attacks by traps or on saving throws against effects created by traps.
I would go Human if Bard with Focused Study and Silver-tongue racial traits.
I would go 1/2 Orc if Inquisitor.
Both I would go with Skill Focus[Perception] as 1st level feat (or racial feat if Human).
In a 20 point buy: Str 16 Dex 13 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 14 or Cha 14 depending on Inquisitor or Bard. Racial +2 to go to Wis or Cha too.
If I was to go Battle/Metal Oracle what weapon would you guys recommend focusing on?
Falchion. Best crit/damage for a two handed weapon in the game. That or a great sword for better damage/worse crit range. Both are pretty excellent. Also potentially you could go with a reach weapon for the attacks of opportunity and the long range combat maneuvers (particularly useful if you go battle and pick up the combat maneuver revelation). I recommend Guisarme for the ranged trips. But remember, you don't have to limit yourself to a single weapon. Often having two weapons, each with a different purpose, that can overcome different kinds of damage reduction is better than specializing.
Just do what I do when I find I'm the last one to choose a character and my top choice doesn't fit the gaps in the party. Play what you want.
Oracle is sweet though. Go human or half elf for extra spells as a favored class bonus each level (really makes a difference for a spontaneous caster to have the extra spells). Additionally, if you go half elf you can take the elf racial oracle archetype that allows you to replace your mystery spells with arcane spells from the wizard/sorcerer list of your choice. You can also use the bonus skill focus feat to qualify for Eldritch Heritage to get sorcerer bloodline abilities. And let's not forget that you're the only race that can qualify for paragon surge, the single most broken spell for spontaneous casters in the game. All in all, half elves make the best oracles (that is, as long as you're allowed to use material from the advanced race guide).
If you want to go sword and board the best weapons are either:
katana, 1d8, 18-20/x2
or
falcata, 1d8, 19-20/x3
Both exotic, unfortunately, which doesn't play well with battle oracle.
I would go sword and board myself, just to get the silly high AC *shrug*
Very few of the battle revelations are bad. Hard to go wrong with it.
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I would go with a melee inquisitor. Assuming the druid is not a focused wild shaper, you could use a heavy melee (grab heavy armor prof). You'll get great skills and bonuses to all the right ones, and you can heal and restore to a moderate degree, especially with wands. Take the feather sub-domain of animal with boon companion at level 5; I'd suggest a big cat. Your only issue may be a bit of MAD depending on how ok you are with low dex/int/cha.
For sword and board I highly recommend Quick Draw the feat in addition to Quick Draw Light (wooden or metal) Shields. With both, you can stow your shield as a free action at the start of your turn, attack 2 handed, then as a free action pull the shield out again.
You can accomplish something similar with just a buckler, but you'll take a -1 to your attack rolls.
i'm with zhayne- play whatever you want. if you're really worried about about a particular role being filed just invest some skills/traits/feats into it... any class can be a face by picking up a trait for appropriate class skills, and maybe a skill focus; any class can tank (even an arcane caster with armor prof feats, arcane armor feats, and toughness and/or the right defensive spells). pick whatever you want to play- you call build to fill any role you want.
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If I was to go Battle/Metal Oracle what weapon would you guys recommend focusing on?
First off, you definitely want to wield your weapon two-handed - sword and board gives up a lot of offense for a little defense. Greatswords are the best early on, but as your static bonuses start to eclipse the damage from your dice, you'd be best off with an 18-20 crit weapon, of which the Falchion has the best damage dice. Improved Critical or the Keen enchantment then gives you a 15-20 weapon - you'll get a critical threat on almost a third of your attacks!
That being said, there are plenty of other interesting weapons out there, particularly if you go Half-Elf to pick up a free exotic weapon proficiency.
-Reach weapons like the Lucerne Hammer or Bardiche are excellent for controlling the battlefield, particularly with Enlarge Person from the Battle mystery. (And combined with Combat Reflexes.)
-If you're considering adding tripping to your repertoire (likely via the battle revelation), you may want a Guisarme or Halberd - being able to trip people with an AoO before they get to you is very, very nice. You don't need a weapon with the Trip property to trip things, but occasionally dropping your weapon by accident is not a good thing.
-There are also some just plain awesome weapons like the Ripsaw Glaive. You really can't beat chopping zombies in half with what amounts to a chainsaw on a stick.
Remember, in the end being happy with your character is the most important thing - if running into combat with a Gnomish Battle Ladder is more fun to you than critting things left and right with a falchion, then go for it!
i'm with zhayne- play whatever you want. if you're really worried about about a particular role being filed just invest some skills/traits/feats into it... any class can be a face by picking up a trait for appropriate class skills, and maybe a skill focus; any class can tank (even an arcane caster with armor prof feats, arcane armor feats, and toughness and/or the right defensive spells). pick whatever you want to play- you call build to fill any role you want.
The caveat I'd make to this is: know your DM. As much as I agree that you should play what you want, and the DM shouldn't throw a hallway full of traps at a party that he knows lacks a rogue (or other such Disable specialist) either in spite of or even because they went without a rogue, there are DMs that will do that. In fact there are many who think it's part of their job to throw challenges that will hit their weak spots, to prove their players wrong, because they dared to play a class they wanted rather than play a rogue because 'someone's gotta play the rogue, and you showed up last.'
Oradin
It sounds like a good style to fill the missing role. Oracle of Life3or4/Paladin16or17.
That way you have a good in combat healer, your druid wont help much there, as well as a melee fightery type. And because of your high Cha, you can fill the party face role too.
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Be a paladin.
Half-Orc Inquisitor with the trade subdomain. Get the half-orc favorite class bonus at every level and watch your skills fly trough the roof.
Another way to go if you think you need a skill monkey is the alternate eidolon build for the summoner. You can find it on the Zenith guides.
Had a half orc metal oracle in a game i was in. She was half face, half tank, all about the metal. Used a flail because it was fun and hitting things with a ball attached to a chain attached to a stick was better than "some metal you need to take care of and keep sharpened." All the dings and dents in that flail were, and I quote, "Improvised Improvements."
Had a half orc metal oracle in a game i was in. She was half face, half tank, all about the metal. Used a flail because it was fun and hitting things with a ball attached to a chain attached to a stick was better than "some metal you need to take care of and keep sharpened." All the dings and dents in that flail were, and I quote, "Improvised Improvements."
Cute! Which revelations rocked, and which ones were "meh"?
I am really loving the idea of a Battle Oracle with a reach weapon with trip. I loved my Barbarian that abused AoOs and I wouldn't mind revisting that a bit while have a full spontaneous divine repertoire. I am tempted to go Suli because I've never been one and they have great stat bonuses for this, but I am a big fan of Half-Elves. Plus we're doing 25 point buy so I have a lot of points to spread around.
This DM LOVES traps, but usually he gives us cues and chances that will allow people other than the party Rogue to discover them so I am not to worried.
Still I've always been tempted to try an Inquisitor so it's kind of stuck in the back of my mind, maybe I'll roll up both and have the Inquisitor as back up on the off chance my Oracle dies or if not as my character for the next game I join.
16,14,14,12,8,14, before racial mods, maybe? That would get you 18,14,14,10,8,16
So I assume you're thinking reach + combat reflexes. A high dex would be desired for combat reflexes as an area controller, but will be onlymarginally useful due to use of heavy armor (unless you get mithral)
For what it's worth, a reach weapon might be a hindrance if you end up spamming enlarge person and righteous might. You might consider a heavy flail instead if you want to trip. I suppose that's what armor spikes and gauntlets are for, though.
Also, consider level 11 - greater trip. You want two AoO's to make the best use out of Greater Trip, and you'll likely be large via righteous might. That drops your dex by two; with combat reflexes you'll have two AoO's with a starting dex of 14.
Another thought - deaf oracle + silence could be fun if you're going melee.
1. Cast silence
2. Move next to an enemy caster
3. Profit?
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I would go either bard or Inquisitor.
Both can hold their own in melee and you can
help with cures, along with the druid.Inquisitor can take the Conversion domain to help with being the face.
If you need trapping, both are capable with the right traits.
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
I would go Human if Bard with Focused Study and Silver-tongue racial traits.
I would go 1/2 Orc if Inquisitor.
Both I would go with Skill Focus[Perception] as 1st level feat (or racial feat if Human).
In a 20 point buy: Str 16 Dex 13 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 14 or Cha 14 depending on Inquisitor or Bard. Racial +2 to go to Wis or Cha too.
Heck, take the traits and slap them on a wizard...you want skill points, be an Int caster and focus on stealth spells, detect secret doors, knock, and some others. Alternately you could always just take a level or so of rogue to get some of the basics and maybe consider an arcane trickster build. You wouldn't need to be an Uber caster because you have one already so you could focus on the tricky spells and maybe some summons to help frontline. Could work out fairly cool especially if the party isn't all about optimizing. Sometimes Optimizing can make there be a limitation on functional builds that are fun but not 9th level caster/1000DPR/skillz+35 types...
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Don't feel that way. Play what you want; it's the GM's job to adapt the adventure to the capabilities of the PCs, not the other way around.
I second this. It's not really fun if you can't play what you want to play. In our campaign I wanted to try out Inquisitor which left us without a cleric. The GM balanced it out by giving the wizard a cure light wounds wand.
But if you're set on filling the gap, you're definitely getting some good advice on this thread.
Had a half orc metal oracle in a game i was in. She was half face, half tank, all about the metal. Used a flail because it was fun and hitting things with a ball attached to a chain attached to a stick was better than "some metal you need to take care of and keep sharpened." All the dings and dents in that flail were, and I quote, "Improvised Improvements."Cute! Which revelations rocked, and which ones were "meh"?
Obviously she started with dance of blades and had the lame curse, lvl 1 speed was 25 (Base speed 20, reduced by 5 from armor, increased by 10 from dance of blades) so gimpy could move fairly fast. Then I believe she took skill at arms and last steel scarf (Game didn't go for very long, but it was good). The steel scarf was meh, but with that cloak that can function like a light shield it worked out pretty well. On 20 pt buy her stats looked like this;
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 17 (15+2 racial)
She was more caster than melee but used her spells as buffs to keep herself in the fray and a threat.
I'm surprised that paizo staff didn't put the same restrictions on "dance of the blades" that they did for "cinder dance" - ie, you can't combine it with lame. Huh.
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Obviously she started with dance of blades and had the lame curse, lvl 1 speed was 25 (Base speed 20, reduced by 5 from armor, increased by 10 from dance of blades) so gimpy could move fairly fast.
Dance of the Blades (Ex): Your base speed increases by 10 feet.
Which means a lame oracle has a base land speed of 30 feet, reduced to 20 due to armor.
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I am really loving the idea of a Battle Oracle with a reach weapon with trip...
Sounds like The Pale King has a solid plan. That front line Oracle with reach will deliver the melee damage, provide substantial battlefield control, be an effective face, fill in the Druid's divine casting weak spots, and even be a full caster.
I presume you intend to trip using your Maneuver Mastery revelation.
If you want extra cheez in the optimization department you could choose to be a Dual Cursed Oracle of Battle. It's a slight downgrade to your bonus spells known, but you get Misfortune and also two bonus Revelations. I presume you know how awesome is Misfortune. I suggest you clear Misfortune with your GM, since the GM can easily neuter Misfortune if he doesn't like it, just by rolling in secret.
Looks like you have some excellent Revelations to choose from. Good ones include: (Misfortune), Skill at Arms, Maneuver Mastery, War Sight, Combat Healer, Surprising Charge (to be in the right place to get AoOs, even when you are not), Weapon Mastery, and Iron Skin
Good feats probably include Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, and repeated Extra Oracle Revelations after that.
Pick the character you want to play, and nuts to the "holes" you think might be in the party make-up.
There is waaaay more than one way to get through any situation...
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I hate when people say "play what you want", but play what you want.
Consider the "commonality" of your characters. Why do they party together? Role play versus roll play.Is this a "Legacy"...game...like Rich Parent trait house rules and not PFS strictly legal?
Golfbagging, Pathfinder MacGyvers, who cares about the "gaps". One mod we had nothing for swarms, today we had 2 Clerics and ran from the Shadow that really only the Paladin was brave enough to see. He crawled into the oven room and came out with 11 STR damage, he was literally too weak to tap out.
If I saw that party at a convention, I'd play a pregen Cleric. I've learned that with a wand of cure light wounds, you make friends fast. At higher levels I spawn a Spiritual Army instead of causing fear of buffing with a bless. At level seven there is a fourth level spell that lets the party pick AC or Attack bonus or Extra movement, like a high level Cav, it crushes the game. Color-spraying Gnomes (Pontificator) crush the game.
Reynard_the_fox gave many cool suggestions "I" want to use.
Another factor is "why do you play?" I'm all about epic, in your face greatness. Some players just want to live to see another chronicle sheet.
To Thine Ownself Be True!
The Crusader wrote: There is waaaay more than one way to get through any situation...
Today buying pizza for the table "did not work!"
Basically what Magda posted is what I plan to play I think it'll be a lot of fun and I've never played an Oracle before. Thanks for the ton of useful advice and suggestions in this thread. I've gotten many ideas for future characters from here.
Pick the character you want to play, and nuts to the "holes" you think might be in the party make-up.
There is waaaay more than one way to get through any situation...
I agree with this. Don't let your party force you into a role that you don't want to play. The party may suffer for a while due to an unbalanced party, but people will die and eventually you will end up with a party that is suited to face the challenges thrown at you. I wouldn't necessarily call it survival of the fittest as much as I would call it organic party forming.
I agree with this. Don't let your party force you into a role that you don't want to play. The party may suffer for a while due to an unbalanced party, but people will die and eventually you will end up with a party that is suited to face the challenges thrown at you. I wouldn't necessarily call it survival of the fittest as much as I would call it organic party forming.Pick the character you want to play, and nuts to the "holes" you think might be in the party make-up.
There is waaaay more than one way to get through any situation...
Or you'll discover that a druid can do "trapfinding" with summon spells. A gunslinger can "pick" a lock with the one tool he has. A wizard can be pretty diplomatic and can even be "charm"-ing. And your character will find a way to be useful without resorting to staid and outdated "party roles"....