Questions about Reach weapons and attacks of opportunity

[Rotjaw]

I'm going to start out by saying that I am fairly new to D&D, but I am constantly reading material to better understand the game. My GM and I were having a discussion about reach weapons and we came to a disagreement on how the rules work on attacks of opportunity.

Im not 100% sure that this how it works but in all of the material that I've read it leads me to this conclusion.

If I'm playing a human and I am wielding a weapon that has reach I threaten the tiles at 10 feet and not the tiles at 5 feet.

Now where we come to the disagreement is, if an enemy is moving through my threatened area at 10' and moving to 5' to engage me in melee, I believe that I would get an attack of opportunity. He says that I wouldn't because they aren't taking their attention off of me or otherwise dropping their guard. I pointed out the rules where it says that if they move out of my threatened area I get an AOO, but he still didn't agree with it.

I then tried to explain it with practical reasoning by saying, in real combat if I was holding a spear and someone was running at me with a sword I would have plenty of time to get a stab in on them. You assess combat differently if you can attack at a distance and this give you more time to react to things around you.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear this up for me.

[Patrick Harris @ MU]

Your GM was mistaken. Moving out of a square that is threatened provokes from everyone threatening it.

[Paz]

Patrick's correct. And even if the enemy had come at you on the diagonal, moving from the square 15' away to the one 5' away, you would still get an AoO.

[Taja the Barbarian]

The major exceptions to the AoO rules are:

• A 5' step does not provoke an AoO, so if moving from 10' away to 5' away is his only movement for the round, your opponent does not provoke. Moving from 15' or farther away to 5' would provoke.
  
• When using the 'Withdraw'* action, the first 5' of movement does not provoke AoOs, but all subsequent movement provokes normally. So, if your opponent 'withdraws' from 10' away, you won't get an AoO, but if he 'withdraws' from 5' away, you would (as you only threaten the second 5' of his movement).

*Despite the implied meaning, 'Withdraw' really just means taking a move without attacking in the same round.

These examples assume you opponent is moving in a straight line: If he has to take a more elaborate route (due to difficult terrain or the like), he's more likely to provoke.

[ArmouredMonk13]

Shouldn't this bee in the Rules Questions forum?

[MrSin]

Sometimes its about moving through the 5 foot diagonal. That ones a bit of a gray area if I remember right, and I'm not keen where pathfinder stands on it.

[Krodjin]

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

When using the 'Withdraw'* action, the first 5' of movement does not provoke AoOs, but all subsequent movement provokes normally. So, if your opponent 'withdraws' from 10' away, you won't get an AoO, but if he 'withdraws' from 5' away, you would (as you only threaten the second 5' of his movement).[/list]

*Despite the implied meaning, 'Withdraw' really just means taking a move without attacking in the same round.

These examples assume you opponent is moving in a straight line: If he has to take a more elaborate route (due to difficult terrain or the like), he's more likely to provoke.

That's not exactly what withdraw says, or how you can use it...

Withdraw specifically calls out that "withdrawing from melee combat is a full round action". And while it goes on to say that you don't have to leave the combat entirely the words "from melee combat" make it clear that you can't employ this action in the manner you suggest. Unless it's a house rule.. In which case go for it.

[Rotjaw]

Thanks everyone for your comments, I really appreciate the help.

[Magda Luckbender]

This excellent and funny YouTube video perfectly explains the rules for Attacks of Opportunity. It's only three minutes. Your entire gaming group should watch this. It helped our group understand this aspect of the game, and we laughed.

Once your group understands Attacks of Opportunity, the value of reach weapons become clear.

[Patrick Harris @ MU]

Magda Luckbender wrote:

This excellent and funny YouTube video perfectly explains the rules for Attacks of Opportunity. It's only three minutes. Your entire gaming group should watch this. It helped our group understand this aspect of the game, and we laughed.

Once your group understands Attacks of Opportunity, the value of reach weapons become clear.

That was fantastic!

[Mystic Lemur]

Cover also negates attacks of opportunity, so if you moved from beside a guy with a reach weapon to a square where you had cover, you could then move out of that square without provoking from him.

[Magda Luckbender]

MrSin wrote:

Sometimes its about moving through the 5 foot diagonal. That ones a bit of a gray area if I remember right, and I'm not keen where pathfinder stands on it.

Well, the RAW is a bit fuzzy, but the way people play is pretty clear. The poll was nearly 10 to 1 against denying AoOs because the attacker moved in on the diagonal. After all, the diagonal is just an artifact of the grid, not a real direction. Also, by the same silly RAW, it is impossible for a reach weapon to ever attack in a narrow corridor with a 45 degree angle to the grid. I've never seen a GM in PFS not give an AoO, despite the silly wording about diagonals. SKR also made a very clear statement on this topic.

[Paz]

Magda Luckbender wrote:

The poll was nearly 10 to 1 against denying AoOs because the attacker moved in on the diagonal.

That's not what that poll was asking. SKR has ruled that moving in from 15' to 5' on the diagonal provokes an AoO from someone with 10' reach; that's not in question.

The poll was asking if people think someone with 10' reach should threaten that 15' diagonal square, for any movement through it (even movement that never comes any nearer than 15'), or other AoO-provoking action in it.

[Mystic Lemur]

If they move in from the diagonal, you get the AoO, which is good. If they 5ft step in from the diagonal, you don't get the AoO, which is bad. If they stand in the diagonal and provoke (or move through the diagonal on the way to somewhere not within your reach), you don't get the AoO, which is the way it is meant to be. You don't threaten that square.