Conjuration Wizard Advice


Advice


I'm a wizard in a lvl 5 party with 2 fighter/rogues (both finesse based; one twf whip trip build, the other is sword-n-board) and an greatsword-wielding oracle who is durable (18 constitution) but has low str/cha. In all of the guides, they say that I should focus on crowd control and buffing/summoning, and I like that concept. The problem I'm noticing in the party is that the melee characters have good durability (high hp and/or AC), but the damage output is pretty low. And if we run into anything with DR, I'm doing the most damage in the party just by spamming acid splash (all my summons do nothing to DR 10/magic or silver). My current plan is to cast haste if it's a big fight (which I just picked up and haven't had a chance to cast), and then CC or summon. After that, I have been just casting acid splash to conserve spells or snapdragon fireworks+acid splash if I want to do more damage (like to DR enemies).

I just got to lvl 5. I'm a elf conjuration wizard (strongly influenced by Treantmonk's and Professor Q's guides) with opposing schools of enchantment and necromancy. For feats, I have SF (conjuration), Augment summons, and summon good monsters (my character is good aligned, and doesn't use/summon evil stuff). I'm still debating on my bonus wizard feat. Fast study sounds good for flexibility, Feral Speech could be good for summoning (my DM is pretty strict about not being able to control them if I can't communicate with them), opposition research could be good if there are spells I need to cast often from a opposition school (though I can't think of what). I could just take quicken spells (or another Metamagic), but I can't even use it yet, so I was going to hold off on that. At lvl 7, I was going to grab Improved Familiar for the dragon fairie familiar (wand-whipping ftw).

Anyone have advice for what I can do to make the party run more smoothly? We are ok when we run across a group of goblins/zombies/mooks (my CC does wonders against them), but when we have one strong enemy, it becomes a matter of attrition, particularly if there is any DR or tight spaces involved. Should I focus more on blasting, since the melee characters aren't doing much damage? More summoning is great for distractions and flanking bonuses, but they don't seem to do that much... Of course, the SM1 and SM2 creatures aren't amazing. Any good, low-level buffs I should be using other than haste and protection from evil, communal?


would need to know more information on your character. what feats and spells do you have? Maybe debuffing and a little blasting would be the way to go. If you are worried about single big baddies with good defenses then spells to debuff is a good way to go.

so feats to consider, spell focus evocation, and extend spell ( mage armor all adventuring day)

if damage is low between the other party members can you do some buffing there, like a bulls strength or greater magic weapon..would lean to GMW becasue of duration.


You could try to pick up a lesser rod of dazing and try to hit bbeg with magic missiles or other low level damage spells. That way you are certainly chipping away at the old HP's, and you might daze him as well which will really help mitigate damage on your side while your melees pound him to paste.
SM3 should be getting you some really good monsters. Celestial leopard is pretty potent when it springs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you are really worried about hitting and DR...Lightbulbs (Lantern Archons, I always called them lightbulbs) are the way to go.

Aura of Menace is a nice debuff to the bad guys and each lightbulb has fly perfect (won't get in the party's way), the Aid Spell (to help with party hp and to hit again), and their basic attack are a pair of laser beams. The lasers are ranged touch attacks and bypass all DR.

Really though as you have said, damage is not your focus. I'd avoid trying to do too many things for a variety of reasons.

Sounds like the issue with damage, is that nobody in the party focused on damage.

Sword and board, whip and trip are not damage dealers. They are more control. I'd say tanking but as Pathfinder dosn't have a taunt mechanic, so that doesn't fly either. The two-hander oracle has a chance...but you just said his primary attack stat is low, so he's out as well.

As melee martials, aren't they taking advantage of your Grease(can cause flat-footed), Glitterdust (blind, free sneak attacks), or other control spells? Or perhaps their builds have not fully matured yet. The oracle potentially can easily out-damage the other sword&board and whip characters, depending on his mysteries/build.

As for not being able to bypass DR...is your GM deliberately keeping you below the wealth curve? By level 5, most martial characters have ways of bypassing most DR. Cold-iron weapon with silver alchemical blanch, magic weapons (even via the spell if an enchanted weapon is not available), etc...

I'd need a bit more info on your buddies before suggesting more synergy.

There are also other options for summoning.
Air Elemental cheese. Whirlwind, fly around picking up mobs finish with remainder of flight up and then drop enemies as a free action from the top of their whirlwinds (you *do* speak Auran right?)
Poison critters (centipede, spiders), ability damage can kill faster than hp damage.

Snowball is a nice single-target damage spell for your level 1 slot.

All this is purely speculative and suggestions anyway. If your party is rocking with your current makeup...let it ride.

Dark Archive

Many summoned creatures gain the Celestial template, allowing them to smite. This should help getting past some DR.

Spells like Create Pit can be great as they are battlefield control AND save or suck…


My current build:

Feats:
lvl 1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
lvl 3 - Augment Summons
lvl 5 - Summon Good Monsters
lvl 5b- ??? (still debating, as I said before)

Spells:
I know a bunch of random spells (defeated a wizard and took its spellbook), but here are the ones that I use most often:

lvl 1: grease, silent image, magic missile, mage armor, snapdragon fireworks
lvl 2: SM2, communal protection from evil, glitterdust, mirror image, web
lvl 3: SM3, haste (haven't used either of these yet, just hit lvl 5)

Anyway, the spells I know probably don't matter, as long as I know what to look for the next time I level up or visit a spell shop (if I find one). Snowball does sound good. Any others that would be useful? For debuffs, my Int is 18, so my DC will be 15-17, which is ok, but not amazing. Will SoS spells be good with this character? If so, which ones do you recommend?

As for my buddies, they tend to stand on the edge of the grease/web and hit whatever enemies save vs the spell. I hadn't thought about the blindness and sneak attacks (I'll have to incorporate that), and no one told me about grease and flat-footed (even after re-reading the spell description, it's vague on when they are flat-footed). When there is only one bbeg, I don't cast web/grease, as that would hinder my allies too much. Perhaps I can get off a glitterdust before they close?

I'm looking forward to trying the leopard, and the Lantern Archon is coming out for the next DR enemy I see. :-D As for Air Elemental cheese, I can only summon small elementals, so they can't actually pick anything up bigger than "tiny" in its whirlwind, right?

As for rod of dazing and DR-bypassing weapons, so far the party has pooled it's resources to buy a +1 rapier, a CLW wand, and we have almost saved up enough to get a +1 whip (a +1 greatsword is next on the list after that). We also found a silver dagger, a +1 short sword, and a couple other odds and ends, but there isn't much wealth flowing around so far. I'm seriously considering crafting feats because of this. :-)

Sovereign Court

I'm a huge fan of Fast Study, but you can't go wrong with a metamagic feat, too. Craft Wondrous Items is very nice if you have a lot of downtime, and while you won't get much benefit out of Craft Arms & Armor, your party will love you. MAKE SURE you pick up Superior Summoning at 7th or 9th - summoning multiple lantern archons, dire tigers, or t-rexes is awesome.

As for DR: check with your GM, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me to summon a humanoid Earth Elemental (or at 7th a Hound Archon), toss it a cold iron/silver/magic simple weapon, and let it go to town with Power Attack. He's got 20 Str with augment summoning. Alternately, the Lantern Archon's pair of pew-pew no-DR touch-attack d6 lasers are quite good to have too, especially once you start summoning multiples and the duration is long enough for them to stick around til end of combat.

Also: don't be afraid to toss out a Scorching Ray or two if you think it will end the battle one round quicker. Alternately, Bull's Strength your allies; I'm sure they'll appreciate it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

On feats, if you want to focus on summoning, Superior Summoning is VERY good. Summoning lets you take advantage of action economy. So the idea is not to summon 1, but 1d3+1/1d4+1 of a lower level when feasible.

On Grease...

PRD, Grease wrote:


...A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

If they stand still they are not flat-footed. But if they walk through it you use Acrobatics to cross the treacherous terrain

PRD, Acrobatics wrote:


You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. A successful check allows you to move at half speed across such surfaces—only one check is needed per round. Use the following table to determine the base DC, which is then modified by the Acrobatics skill modifiers noted below. While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC

Of course I like using Grease on a big baddies weapon so he drops it :)

A cold iron weapon is 2x base cost. So a cold iron morningstar would bypass cold iron, bludgeoning and piercing would run a total of 16 gp.
A silvered 1 handed melee (say a heavy mace) runs only +90 or 102 gp.

I'm not sure how tight your budget is, but by level 5 I hope it's not that tight...

Item crafting can be amazing...or not. Depends on the GM. I've had many GM's that ban crafting outright. Even Pathfinder Society bans item crafting.

With an 18 int your base saving throw DC with spells is fine for a regular campaign. I cannot say for certain if GM is doing something off the baseline.

At level 5, the level 1 snowball (5d6 ranged touch plus stagger, SR NO) is superior to the level 2 scorching ray (4d6 ranged touch, SR YES).
In fact, as you level up, it's probably better to just metamagic intensify Snowball (raise dice cap by 5d6) for +1 spell slot, than go with Scorching Ray if you are focusing on single targets.

Regarding Air Elementals.
When in the form of a whirlwind, an elemental can pick up anything up to it's volume.

SRD, Air Elemental, Small wrote:


Whirlwind Vortex Height 10–20 ft.

And the base of the whirlwind is:

PRD, Whirlwind wrote:


Whirlwind (Su) Some creatures can transform themselves into whirlwinds and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD they have. If the creature has a fly speed, it can continue to fly at that same speed while in whirlwind form; otherwise it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed (average maneuverability) while in whirlwind form.

The whirlwind is always 5 feet wide at its base, but its height and width at the top vary from creature to creature (minimum 10 feet high). A whirlwind's width at its peak is always equal to half its height. The creature controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet high.

So you have a 5 foot square at the base, 20 feet high and 10 feet wide at the peak.

That's more than enough for several medium creatures. It only lasts one round, but with the air elemental's movement of 100 feet, plus 20 foot high, than can be a very long drop.

If say you summon 3 small air elementals and have them do the same tactic over 3 successive rounds, even if they spend half their movement scooping up targets, that's still a 70 foot drop each round.

Which probably is going to hurt most targets. Note the rules against flying targets can be a bit murky.

Note fighting one (or several from say from an angry evil druid) can be a royal pain so be careful before springing this one... :)

Grand Lodge

It sounds like the OP has a fine build, but the team is deeply dysfunctional. None of the characters have any way to inflict much damage. It sounds like everyone just built their own character, with no thought to how they would work together. It's not the wizards job to inflict big damage, and a wizard is not equipped to do so.

How much additional damage would the sword-and-board fighter inflict if he simply slung his shield and picked up a reach weapon? It's probably a large number, like 2x or more. That might help, particularly with the whip/trip build giving AoOs. As it is, the extra AoOs provided by the whip/trip fighter are probably going to waste.

Another option is to point out to the GM that this team is very un-optimized, and ask the GM to consider that when determining encounters. A team of super-optimized PCs counts as about 2 levels higher than nominal level. This team, except for the OP, sounds like it should count about two levels lower than nominal level.


Yeah, this party was gathered ad-hoc. I didn't even join the campaign until lvl 3, and that was because they were losing a player. These characters definitely weren't planned for synergy (other than me picking wizard because they needed an arcane caster).

I didn't realize the silver and cold iron weapons were so cheap. I'll suggest to the rest of my party that they should invest in them. On the other hand, I don't think the sword-and-board fighter is going to be convinced to go reach when they've already invested in the finesse feat. *shrugs*

As for the summoning multiple creatures, I've tried that a couple time, and it's always demoralizing to use my SM2 spell to summon a 1/2 CR creature. If I just summoning the CR 1 creature, I don't have to worry about rolling badly. :-\ Of course, the superior summoning would guarantee that I get at least 2... it would be worth it then. Sadly, that won't happen until lvl 9. The improved familiar sounds too good to not pick it up at lvl 7.

Does the smite given by the celestial template actually allow the creature to ignore DR? I know it's based off of the paladin version that does, but it only talks about cha to attack and HD to damage. Probably RAW vs RAI?

Liberty's Edge

the smite does not allow you to bypass DR, but when you get higher level and summon bigger HD critters than it will out damage it. Also remember your summoned animals get DR. I always tend to forget that. funny note, was in a game where fighty types couldnt over come the DR of BBEG. I wound up summoning 10 lantern archons and passed them out to others to roll the attacks and damage.


Depending on your DM, I have found Cypher Script to be really useful.

I am a big fan of Spell Specialization (especially at lower levels) since it adds to the duration of your spells, and you can switch it every other level to match whatever spells you pick up along the way.

Extend spell is solid.

Acadamae Graduate would have been really good.

Improved Initiative is always a very solid choice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Letariel wrote:

Yeah, this party was gathered ad-hoc. ...

Does the smite given by the celestial template actually allow the creature to ignore DR? I know it's based off of the paladin version that does, but it only talks about cha to attack and HD to damage. Probably RAW vs RAI?

The smite from the Celestial template is not the same as the paladin's smite, RAW.

PRD, Celestial template wrote:


Special Attacks smite evil 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes; smite persists until target is dead or the celestial creature rests).

And don't feel bad, this is about what you want to play after all.

On the topic of Improved Familiar, what do you want and what do you plan on using him for?

I don't know how your GM rolls, in my experience GM's tend to ignore familiars unless they become combat pets, then it is open season. Having a familiar go from something that rides around in your backpack (or say a raven that flies around as a scout) to a supernatural looking one that's flying around wielding a wand is a big shift. Even if some of them (like the Lyrakien Azata or the good old standby the Pseudodragon) are indeed pretty nifty.

And yes, your party is a bit subpar in the combat department, hopefully your GM is taking that into account. It's a topic for conversation for your group in any case. Maybe the GM will throw in a retraining session.


master_marshmallow wrote:

Depending on your DM, I have found Cypher Script to be really useful.

I am a big fan of Spell Specialization (especially at lower levels) since it adds to the duration of your spells, and you can switch it every other level to match whatever spells you pick up along the way.

Extend spell is solid.

Acadamae Graduate would have been really good.

Improved Initiative is always a very solid choice.

Extend, Spells Specialization, and Improved Initiative are all great, but I just haven't been able to wedge them into my build yet. I'm planning on taking spell specialization and improved initiative eventually, but I don't think I can fit in too many metamagics (I'm hoping to grab Quicken and Dazing later). :-(

Why do you recommend Cypher Script over Fast Study? I think it would be more useful to prepare quicker (which you do every day and allows you more spell flexibility) rather than transcribe them quicker (which you only do once in a while).

Similarly, why do you recommend Acadamae Graduate? Wizards always have a bad fortitude save (currently I have +2 fort save, which means I fail a DC 15 check 65% of the time), so it's pretty likely I'll get hit by the debuff. If I use this feat whenever I summon, I quickly become exhausted, which not only gives huge debuffs to str/dex (which gives -3 to the attack of any ray spells I have), but also cuts my speed in half! If I just use it until I get fatigued (probably 1-2 times), then it only gives me fatigue, which is manageable, but doesn't seem like it's worth a feat to summon quicker only a couple of times a day, in exchange for a debuff for the rest of the day.

Rerednaw wrote:
On the topic of Improved Familiar, what do you want and what do you plan on using him for?

My plan is to get the fairy dragon. He has lvl 3 sorcerer's spell casting, so he gets a couple spells, and can use any wizard/sorcerer wands/scrolls without having to UMD. He can also use greater invisibility on himself, so I'll possibly use him for delivering touch spells (he'll have the flyby attack feat, so it'll be hard for the enemy to figure out where he is after the touch). He'll also be good for telepathically communicating w/ the party, which is good tactically, and also prevents my allies from needing to roll to disbelieve any illusions I put down but not alerting the enemies. Other than spell delivery, I'm expecting him to stay on my shoulder, so he should be pretty safe. I expect he will die at some point, but I expect it to be infrequent, and if not, I'll stop using him for spell delivery (as that's most likely to get him killed).


Letariel wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

Depending on your DM, I have found Cypher Script to be really useful.

I am a big fan of Spell Specialization (especially at lower levels) since it adds to the duration of your spells, and you can switch it every other level to match whatever spells you pick up along the way.

Extend spell is solid.

Acadamae Graduate would have been really good.

Improved Initiative is always a very solid choice.

Extend, Spells Specialization, and Improved Initiative are all great, but I just haven't been able to wedge them into my build yet. I'm planning on taking spell specialization and improved initiative eventually, but I don't think I can fit in too many metamagics (I'm hoping to grab Quicken and Dazing later). :-(

Why do you recommend Cypher Script over Fast Study? I think it would be more useful to prepare quicker (which you do every day and allows you more spell flexibility) rather than transcribe them quicker (which you only do once in a while).

Similarly, why do you recommend Acadamae Graduate? Wizards always have a bad fortitude save (currently I have +2 fort save, which means I fail a DC 15 check 65% of the time), so it's pretty likely I'll get hit by the debuff. If I use this feat whenever I summon, I quickly become exhausted, which not only gives huge debuffs to str/dex (which gives -3 to the attack of any ray spells I have), but also cuts my speed in half! If I just use it until I get fatigued (probably 1-2 times), then it only gives me fatigue, which is manageable, but doesn't seem like it's worth a feat to summon quicker only a couple of times a day, in exchange for a debuff for the rest of the day.

Rerednaw wrote:
On the topic of Improved Familiar, what do you want and what do you plan on using him for?
My plan is to get the fairy dragon. He has lvl 3 sorcerer's spell casting, so he gets a couple spells, and can use any wizard/sorcerer wands/scrolls without having to UMD. He can also use greater invisibility on himself, so I'll...

Cypher Script cuts the cost and size of your spellbook by 1/3.

Graduate lets your summons be cast as standard actions, even if you have to wait until later on for it to be effective.

Sovereign Court

Do NOT underestimate Acadamae Graduate. If there was a feat that says "You can summon monsters as a standard action 1-2 times a day," I would take it in a second. At higher levels vs. intelligent opponents, particularly other spellcasters, starting a summon puts a giant target on your forehead. Putting up a Wall of Force so I could get off a summon was not uncommon, which meant that the summon didn't actually hit the field until the 3rd round of combat. In comparison, being able to summon as a standard action is just plain ridiculous. (Note that this is one of the chief reasons why Animal Shaman druids and Master Summoner summoners are widely considered the best summoners in the game.)


master_marshmallow wrote:
Graduate lets your summons be cast as standard actions, even if you have to wait until later on for it to be effective.

Effective later on? Let's assume I grab it at lvl 11 (likely, lvl 7 - Improved Familiar, lvl 9 - Superior Summoning). At that point, I'll have a base fort save of +3 and +1 from 12 con. Let's say I can get another +4 from equipment (combination of cloak of resistance and belt of constitution), that would put me up to +8 which would reduce the debuff chance down to 35%. So if I only summoned until I'm fatigued, on average I would be able to do it 3 times. If I grabbed the Great Fortitude feat at 11, and got Graduate at 13, that would put me up to +11, or 20% debuff chance, which would average to 5 times a day. It seems this feat gets a lot better as you lvl up and get better equipment, and eventually, you only get fatigued on a natural 1. For lower levels, I could possibly abuse "allnight" to remove the fatigue entirely for the rest of the adventuring day, though that is not a perfect solution (kinda expensive to use everyday and gives -2 skills). Possibly I could convince my oracle buddy to use "lesser restoration" on me every once in a while... Is there any feats/equipment that gets rid of fatigue or exhaustion? That could really push this feat into the awesome category earlier on in the character's career.

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
Do NOT underestimate Acadamae Graduate...

You raise good points. I guess I've been mostly been fighting against goblins, zombies, and all the tough enemies we've faced have been melee. If the enemies have any sort of reach (archers or casters), they probably would take potshots at me.


DC for Acadamae Graduate is actually 15 + spell level, at level 11 you'd be casting SM IV which would have a DC 21. With +11 Fort you are at 50% (?) chance, not bad but not great either.

EDIT: The feat is from an AP so a GM might not even allow it.


Letariel wrote:
I'm seriously considering crafting feats because of this. :-)

Take leadership instead, and make your cohort a dedicated crafter/caster. You get WAY more bang for your buck. Seriously, leadership is so far beyond the power of every other feat I can't imagine why it is not a standard in every build.


Melvin the Mediocre wrote:
Letariel wrote:
I'm seriously considering crafting feats because of this. :-)
Take leadership instead, and make your cohort a dedicated crafter/caster. You get WAY more bang for your buck. Seriously, leadership is so far beyond the power of every other feat I can't imagine why it is not a standard in every build.

This is why most DMs give it the BANHAMMER.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I believe the OP has a familiar.
Leadership takes a hit when you already have a companion.
And +1 for Acadamae Graduate, if you want to fire off those summons.


Letariel wrote:
Is there any feats/equipment that gets rid of fatigue or exhaustion? That could really push this feat into the awesome category earlier on in the character's career.

You might consider a Azata/Lyrakien as your familiar. It can remove exhaustion or fatigue once per day (though out of combat.)


Mephit or Imp familiar with a shed load of UMD for the wands that it will be spamming all over. A wand of Lesser restoration to get rid of Fatigue...
Multiple Air Elementals using Aid Other to help out the fighter-types.
Lantern Archons to get past DR.
Linguistics so you can speak to everything you summon.
Remember every point of damage that the rest of the party do because of your spells is damage that you have done. Not them. :)


Raziel747 wrote:
DC for Acadamae Graduate is actually 15 + spell level, at level 11 you'd be casting SM IV which would have a DC 21. With +11 Fort you are at 50% (?) chance, not bad but not great either.

So, my fortitude will go up, but so will the DC... it sounds like it will stay at around 50% failure over time, which is (as you said) ok. I did find this item in Ultimate Equipment:

SRD wrote:
Cord of Stubborn Resolve: ... Any effect which would cause the wearer to become fatigued deals an additional 1d6 points of nonlethal damage instead.

So as long as I am willing to take some non-lethal damage (and I am), this solves the fatigue issue with the Graduate feat. :-D Now I just need to get enough cash to buy the thing.

As for the leadership feat, I haven't asked, but I'm sure my DM would ban that if I tried. It's way too OP.

I have enough linguistics to know draconic, sylvan, celestial, and all the elemental languages. The only non-evil summons I can't talk to are animals (which is the only things I can summon right now), and I don't think linguistics can help you speak to creatures without a language, right?

As for using a familiar for UMD, wouldn't a faerie dragon be better? A charisma of 16 is better than mephits or imp (not that I would take an evil familiar anyway).

Sovereign Court

There's an Arcane Discovery called Feral Speech that lets you talk to animals, but unless you're getting utility past controlling summons I probably wouldn't bother with it. Otherwise you're stuck with Handle Animal if you want anything other than "kill that dude."

Faerie Dragons are my top choice for Improved Familiar. Check with your GM, but since they cast spells as a 3rd level sorcerer, they are probably able to wield 1st-level wands without UMD.

The Exchange

there is a discovery in UM. feral speech or such that lets you talk to animals you summon. thus making the wizard win the best summoner race


Howdy, I'm playing a level 8 conjuration wizard in PFS at the moment. Here's my thoughts on how you can build out your character, based on what I've read so far.

I'll start with the stuff you haven't already picked yet - like improved familiars-

The Azata Lyrakien has a base charisma of 20 and a humanoid body type (magic items ahoy). It is THE UMD familiar, with the smallest possible bonus to UMD being +12 (+14 on items already used before). Unless you're more than one alignment step from chaotic good, the other familiars don't really compare. It doesn't have weapon finesse though, so it won't be able to aid-another as easily as say an imp or a quasit. The Valet archetype from the Animal Archive is a must if you use your familiar to deliver beneficial touch spells. A personal favorite of mine is to use my Lyrakien's 80' perfect flight to give displacement (or any touch buff, really) to front line fighters. You won't be able to rebuild its class skills, but you don't really need to. It also has good spell-likes, but nothing as good as invisibility. The Lyrakien also has truespeech, which solves your commands problem with anything that has a language.

As far as the casting ability of the faerie dragon - you should get a tidepool dragon instead as it casts as a level 4 sorceror. The choice really depends on your tactics, but being able to use 2nd level spells opens up all kinds of shenanigans.

Summoning and DR -

Something thing to know about your DR problem - any creature that has an alignment subtype automatically pierces DR of the same type (on natural attacks). So if you summon, say, a dretch, it automatically passes DR/evil and DR/chaotic because the dretch contains those alignment subtypes as part of its build. Additionally, any creature with DR/magic can pierce DR/magic, but that rule does not apply to other DR types (DR/silver does not pierce DR/silver).

Unfortunately, you aren't summoning evil monsters. You have foiled yourself. Lantern Archons are your best bet until you can summon monsters that have more variety. HOWEVER, most outsiders have two alignment types. Thus, you can nail those devils with an azata. You can get demons with archons. Daemons and angels can be pesky if you're not into schadenfreude. Applying the celestial template does not grant an alignment subtype, by the by. Carefully review your expanded summons list; any of the summons that have an alignment subtype have added value for your particular set of problems.

Speaking of outsiders: you should keep an eye out for the varying monster types though and consider sideboard strategies that supplement your focus. Magic Circle Against Evil can be used to trap any ->non-good<- outsider, so long as it can't teleport. That provision notwithstanding, MCAE amazing for locking up hordes of imps or other outsider trash. You just have to make sure you get ALL the trash, since even a straw laid across the boundary of the circle from the outside will ruin it. Anything trapped inside a circle can't take any action that will ruin the circle though, not even indirectly. MCAE will also protect you from other summoners.

There's also manuever monsters in your list that no one has discussed yet - do your foes carry metal weapons? Lightning elementals get +10 to their CMBs against targets carrying metal. Trip, grapple, reposition, and otherwise be ornery. Magma elementals can puke lava into any swarm you run into, plus they will catch things that touch them on fire (just like fire elementals).

If you are allowed items from APs, get the Cauldron of Overwhelming Allies from the Snows of Summer (Reign of Winter 1). As long as you're summoning from lower lists, you get 1d3 more. It is totally valid as a summoner to win by stacking the deck with so many weak monsters that the big ones can't cope.

This'll keep you going for a while!


I took a peek at the Summon Good Monster list - at 5th level you gain access to the silvanshee, lyrakien, and lantern. These all have the [good] subtype, which means they can pierce DR/good.

If you must pierce DR/magic, use spells. Versatile Weapon is a good 3rd level spell for piercing cold iron, silver, or those other random pesky material types, but Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon work well too. Both of those spells will pierce DR/magic - but nothing else. Speaking of DR/magic, any +1 weapon really ought to do the trick for your party members.


Jokon Yew wrote:
Lots of awesome information.

The Lyrakien does sound cool. It has better UMD, but the fairy dragon casts as a sorcerer, so it doesn't need UMD for any arcane wand/scrolls and that partially balances it out (and there's already an oracle in the party to use divine wands, if they are needed). The truespeech doesn't help me much, because I already invested in linguistics, and the dragon's telepathy promises all kind of advantages (as I talked about above). Its SLAs are nice, but as you said, the dragon's SLA and spells are probably better. The Lyrakien has faster fly speed, but the difference between "80' (perfect)" and "60' (perfect)" isn't that significant in most circumstances. The fairy dragon can be invisible while delivering touch spells (including attacks), so he'll draw much less fire in that role. Of course, the Lyrakien has much better defenses with 5/evil DR, Immune electricity and petrify, Resists fire 10 and cold 10, and constant freedom of movement, so if it draws fire, it's more likely to survive. The Lyrakien's constant detect evil and magic could be useful too. On the other hand, the "speak with animals of your kind" feat on the dragon could be argued to let you comunicate with the dinosaurs that you can summon (aka. command my pack of T-Rexs), but I don't think that feat does anything on the Lyrakien. The starlight blast vs the euphoric breath is probably a wash (both are going to be worthless). Traveler's friend could be handy at some point but kinda situational. All in all, they both seem really good to me; probably on par with each other, and each has their own advantages.

The tidepool dragon does have better casting than the fairy dragon, but that seems to be the only thing good about it (worse fly speed, worse SLA, worse spell DCs, no telepathy). It also doesn't say that it casts as a sorcerer, so it'd need to make UMD checks on arcane stuff (and for some reason it has only 2 lvl 1 spells, which isn't normal for a lvl 4 sorcerer). I'm having a hard time thinking of a lvl 2 spell that would make it worth it. What kind of shenanigans did you have in mind? I'm open to being convinced :-)

All the info about alignment DR is super useful! I'll keep that in mind. I already use protection from evil and lightning elementals whenever possible. I'll keep the magma elemental in mind too; it sounds like it could be really nice.

As for the "Cauldron of Overwhelming Allies", that sounds awesome, and if my DM doesn't ban it, I'll definitely get one (or maybe a dozen, since they are 1 use/day). :-D

I picked up Magic Weapon after the last disaster against a DR enemy (facing off against a Greater Barghast when only one character had a magic weapon, and I was out of spells; we burned way too many potions before we realized we didn't have a chance and ran away). I'll be on the look out for Versatile Weapon and GMW.


Page of Spell Knowledge

With the correct page of spell knowledge, you can have any 2nd level sorceror spell on the tidepool dragon. As far as how you can deduce the spell caster class, it's from the fact that it has "spells known" in its stat block and uses the sorceror slot progression. It could be an oracle, but it has an awful lot of wizard/sorceror spells ;). It's from AP#55, so it hasn't received a lot of errata or clarifications. Arguably, the creature was created specifically for that path, and my common sense tells me that acquisition of that familiar in that path may be story-driven to some extent. It hasn't appeared in any of the four bestiaries to my knowledge.

Web is pretty hot for a 2nd level spell, but I get a lot of personal mileage out of invisibility, raiment of command, knock, and darkvision. There's also Summon Cacodaemon, but you won't use that.

While we're still on the choice of a faerie dragon - improved familiars do not get the speak with others of kind feature! Here's the text.

As far as truespeech, it's your protection from GM fiat - it can speak to any creature with a language. This doesn't extend to writing, but it means you can communicate with wandering tribals as easily as planar ne'er-do-wells. Animals are obviously still an issue, but that's still true with telepathy to some extent - an animal that doesn't know any tricks can't be told to use them. You can use share memory, or speak with animals, but communication via telepathy can be ruled to just be another channel of communication and relies on some amount of abstraction equivalent to the use of words.

Here's a thought experiment - if you told your celestial dog to "attack the orange things" through a telepathic message, you'd have to inform it what orange is (as many breeds of dog are partially color blind - orange, yellow, and green all appear yellow to these dogs). Telepathy does not cover for differences in ability! It's all magic in the end though, so go with what your GM rules for and keep yer trap shut if it's in your favor.

Back to the lyrakien - Traveler's Friend is your get out of jail free card for using the Acadamae Graduate feat. Exhaust yourself spam summoning minions, then listen to your familiar for a minute once combat's done. It's a killer combo for conjurors. Also, check out the Valet archetype from the Animal Archive - it lets you aid another and deliver touch spells as fly-by actions - that is, your familiar can move, act, then finish moving to somewhere far safer. It also aids you on all your crafting tasks, but that doesn't seem to be part of your build.


Craft Wondrous Item is one of the major prerequisites (the others are secret page & being a 7th-level caster) for crafting a blessed book, which has 1000 pages on which you can fill with spells, and your caster doesn't have to pay the material cost of the spell(s). As blessed book is not found as randomly generated treasure, this means you either have to craft it yourself or pay someone else to craft it.

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