Druids Log: Animal companions


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Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Updated and put into a google doc spreadsheet until I stop being lazy and make something on my own site.

Ways of obtaining an animal companion

The Exchange

I love all the work that has been put into this thread. I have very little experience with animal companions and have a character who will now obtain one in a couple of levels.

So essentially I have one clarification question but for two different scenarios, both of which are mainly clarifying the no training required for your FIRST animal to teach them tricks.

As stated above, I have not had a whole lot of experience with animal companions. So here is the first scenario:

I was running a game as a GM. At the end of the night when chronicle sheets were being handed out, one of the players asked me to oversee his animal being trained a trick. He succeeded at a roll and I marked on his chronicle sheet that his animal learned a new trick. This was a low level scenario and I am pretty sure that the players animal companion was their first animal companion. Based on what I have seen and have come to understand, the first Animal Companion you obtain you don’t have to train it any of the tricks because it comes already trained. So this player should not have needed to train its companion a trick since it was the initial animal companion, right? Are there times when your initial Animal Companion will need to be trained a new trick?

So the same answer to the above question will probably answer this to. I also recently GM’d a certain scenario that provided an owlbear on a chronicle sheet. Since I was a GM I knew this in advance and made sure my Ranger was a Beastmaster Ranger which will eventually acquire said owlbear. So when I reach level 4 when my Beastmaster Ranger gets their first animal companion, will my owlbear already know all of the tricks and I just have to identify the specifics tricks it has? So manipulating the bear stats to make the owl bear I got this:

OwlBear
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Essentially the only thing that changed was the Charisma score.

So using the stats, the number of tricks an owlbear starts with are Intelligence x3 = 2 x 3 = 6. The tricks I figured the owlbear would start with are attack, attack, stay, heel, down, seek. I do not need to do any training rolls since the owlbear start off knowing their tricks. Since I only have 6 tricks (if I did my math correctly) why wouldn’t you always choose heel instead of come. By giving the command of heel, doesn’t your animal “come” to your side automatically?

Sorry in advanced for the long winded post!

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Quote:
This was a low level scenario and I am pretty sure that the players animal companion was their first animal companion. Based on what I have seen and have come to understand, the first Animal Companion you obtain you don’t have to train it any of the tricks because it comes already trained. So this player should not have needed to train its companion a trick since it was the initial animal companion, right? Are there times when your initial Animal Companion will need to be trained a new trick?

Double check that something horrible didn't happen to Fluffy I, then give them the good news that their critter comes fully trained.

Quote:
So when I reach level 4 when my Beastmaster Ranger gets their first animal companion, will my owlbear already know all of the tricks and I just have to identify the specifics tricks it has?

Eyup, which knowing that boon is a good thing...

Quote:
Essentially the only thing that changed was the Charisma score.

Without double checking the bear stats thats right. Just the cha score changed.

Quote:
So using the stats, the number of tricks an owlbear starts with are Intelligence x3 = 2 x 3 = 6.

You also have one bonus trick from it being a level 1 animal companion.

Quote:
The tricks I figured the owlbear would start with are attack, attack, stay, heel, down, seek.

Picking up the animal archive and getting flank is really helpful to the other melee in your party. Exclusive is good if you start running into charm monster.

Quote:
I do not need to do any training rolls since the owlbear start off knowing their tricks. Since I only have 6 tricks (if I did my math correctly) why wouldn’t you always choose heel instead of come. By giving the command of heel, doesn’t your animal “come” to your side automatically?

Pretty much. You can almost use them interchangeably.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Flutter et al --

Two things.

QUESTION 1: Tricks for my Very Smart (IQ 4) Tiger

We will be playing our last level 1 session with Pumpkin tomorrow. After next session will be the last time that I will be able to edit Pumpkin and myself legally before we hit level 2.

After the above conversatin on Charm Animal and Evil Druids, I've been wanting to put "exclusive" in Pumpkin's tricks, and I'm trying to figure out if there is something that I can let go to make room for it.

Attack [Trick]
Attack Any Target [Trick]
Come [Trick]
Defend [Trick]
Down [Trick]
Fetch [Trick]
Flank [Trick]
Guard [Trick]
Heel [Trick]
Maneuver [Trick, Grapple]
Seek [Trick]
Serve [Trick, Omar Senay]
Sneak [Trick]

"Come" and "Heel" seem to be covering the same thing, but I am afraid that if I drop one of them that a GM will claim that Pumpkin can't come with us. Is that correct?

"Serve" has already proven useful to my partner, Bret. I have yet to get anything out of sneak, and I am wondering now if I will. Neither my Sorceress nor my partner's cleric have any stealth. It is possible that we could send the tiger to sneak up and then grapple someone who does not know we're there.

BTW, grapple is my favorite trick. It gives us a great way to catch NPCs non-lethally so that we can question them. Seek is really interesting since we've already run into invisible foes. One GM thought that we could use "Fetch" to fetch an NPC, though I believe now that was a misread of the rules. Dang. I'm having trouble finding one I can drop to make room for "exclusive."

QUESTION 2: Player Etiquette When Talking to GMs about Pumpkin

I'm trying to find a diplomatic way to explain Pumpkin's abilities to GMs. I've played 2 sessions with two different GMs who were both confused about what Pumpkin can do. In the first session, the GM made me roll Handle Animal eight times -- often to do tricks that were on Pumpkin's list. In the second one, the GM assumed that Pumpkin was another "Death Kitty" and was in shock when I had Pumpkin grapple NPCs without killing them.

Both GMs were completely thrown by the grapple, even though I tried to talk with them before the game started about Pumpkin being high intelligence and having these tricks. Both GMs initially assumed no link for the Animal Companion because I was a sorcerer and not a druid.

I'm fairly articulate, and generally am considered to have a good IRL diplomacy, but clearly I could have explained this better. I've tried arriving in advance of the game, but both GMs were running late, so I didn't get a chance to get Pumpkin audited in advance of game.

I don't want to slow down the game for other players, or make a GM think that I'm springing something on him. Suggestions?

Third, A Thank You For Previous Advice

I want to thank everyone so far who has advised me on running Pumpkin without stepping on other player's toes. The players have usually been there enough in advance that I have time to talk with them about Pumpkin. I let the rogues know that they have a flank buddy, and the tanks know that they have a backup fighter who will come in if needed. I tell everyone that Pumpkin will happily catch and grapple an NPC -- either for questioning or combat. So far, Pumpkin has been a great support NPC, providing aid but not outshining other PCs. I have you guys to thank for helping me figure this out.

Hmm

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Flutter wrote:
Quote:
I do not need to do any training rolls since the owlbear start off knowing their tricks. Since I only have 6 tricks (if I did my math correctly) why wouldn’t you always choose heel instead of come. By giving the command of heel, doesn’t your animal “come” to your side automatically?

Pretty much. You can almost use them interchangeably.

Note to self: Always read the last post. So... Can I drop "Come" since I have "Heel" and get "Exclusive"?

Hmm

Grand Lodge 4/5

Just as a note: Even if it is the first AC, it is possible, due to events/leveling, that it could have opened up more trick slots, like the player raised its Int from 2 to 3 at 4th level, so it would need to train those additional, new trick slots.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Quote:
"Come" and "Heel" seem to be covering the same thing, but I am afraid that if I drop one of them that a GM will claim that Pumpkin can't come with us. Is that correct?

Its always possible. Heel seems more of the "automatic" and come is "come here right now" You can probably take heel, and then push the come command if you have to

Quote:
"Serve" has already proven useful to my partner, Bret. I have yet to get anything out of sneak,

Sneak might be one to drop.

If you group with a rogue that likes to scout serve + sneak can keep them alive. Its not a bad one to drop though, once Pumpkin gets large the -4 penalty and lack of skill points start to tell a bit and they get easier to spot, then its definitely a trick you can do without.

Quote:
BTW, grapple is my favorite trick. It gives us a great way to catch NPCs non-lethally so that we can question them. Seek is really interesting since we've already run into invisible foes.

Glitterdust as soon as possible. A blind and sparkly kitty is a cheap price to pay to get the entire party attacking the invisible foe.

When you start dming, take a look at the "secondary success conditions" document. The number of "need em alive" rewards is pretty substanital.

Just remember that the trick isn't the feat: Pumpkin will draw an AOO then they try this, and if the hit lands the damage dealt is a penalty to their combat manuever check.

Quote:

One GM thought that we could use "Fetch" to fetch an NPC, though I believe now that was a misread of the rules.

Its a legitimate DMs call, especially since they already have grapple, and the dm was being nice, so just enjoy it.

Quote:
Dang. I'm having trouble finding one I can drop to make room for "exclusive."

I think you can do that but i'm not 100% sure. If the Dms' in your area don't like the idea, wait till you have some ranks in handle animal, retrain it to combat training (which flat out does reset your tricks) and then keep retraining with the tricks that work better with your play style. Its always tricky adjudicating something not explicitly spelled out in the rules that one dm might allow but another one might not.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Serve seems to indicate that you need to permanently assign a single person that the animal will listen to. How is that used in PFS? Could I reset the secondary commander every session, or is it only useful if always playing with the same party?

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Ascalaphus wrote:
Serve seems to indicate that you need to permanently assign a single person that the animal will listen to. How is that used in PFS? Could I reset the secondary commander every session, or is it only useful if always playing with the same party?

I've always read the designating as being just like having it do any other trick, rather than a specific person thats fixed.

3/5 5/5 *

I am planning to run a treesinger druid with a treant sapling as my AC. I was trying to figure out available slots for the treant last night.

Would it be safe to assume it's a biped with claws/paws (branches?) from the animal archive when determining potential slots?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

That's what we're running with for ours.

Same same the Faerie Dragon isn't listed.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

The Faerie Dragon is listed as being Biped (Hands) for PFS, so you're good.

The Treant has no listed slots that I am aware of from any published material. I'd say "Neck" is safe, but you will encounter table variation.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Ahhh cheers mate!

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Flutter wrote:

Sneak might be one to drop.

If you group with a rogue that likes to scout serve + sneak can keep them alive. Its not a bad one to drop though, once Pumpkin gets large the -4 penalty and lack of skill points start to tell a bit and they get easier to spot, then its definitely a trick you can do without.

I have dropped "sneak" for "exclusive" which frees up a skill point for swim. Next level, I'll add linguistics to Pumpkin's skill list. Yes, my cat can figure out cyphers. Okay, maybe not.... But at least it will understand Kelish, the language that both Zahra and Omar speak.

Flutter wrote:
Quote:
BTW, grapple is my favorite trick. It gives us a great way to catch NPCs non-lethally so that we can question them. Seek is really interesting since we've already run into invisible foes.
Glitterdust as soon as possible. A blind and sparkly kitty is a cheap price to pay to get the entire party attacking the invisible foe.

I don't get many new spells as a sorcerer. I think I'll have to stick with my sack of flour for catching invisible people.

Flutter wrote:
When you start dming, take a look at the "secondary success conditions" document. The number of "need em alive" rewards is pretty substanital.

This means non-lethal = good as an option, right?

Flutter wrote:
Just remember that the trick isn't the feat: Pumpkin will draw an AOO then they try this, and if the hit lands the damage dealt is a penalty to their combat manuever check.

I know. Pumpkin has been drawing AOO's. But with the last free rebuild before second level, we're going to be switching out Combat Reflexes for Pumpkin (which we have yet to use) for Unarmed Strike so that we can have "Improved Grapple" at level two!

Flutter wrote:
Quote:

One GM thought that we could use "Fetch" to fetch an NPC, though I believe now that was a misread of the rules.

Its a legitimate DMs call, especially since they already have grapple, and the dm was being nice, so just enjoy it.

I did!

Thanks, Flutter!

The Exchange

Thanks for your previous answer, now I have another question. In the same module I obtained my owl bear in, one of the animals in the module had the "fire belch" trick. The chronicle sheet didn't grant this for us to train our animal companion. Is this a trick we can teach our animal companions? If so, is it referenced somewhere and is it PFS legal? I would love to use that trick, just not sure if it is legal.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

You can always try to use the Perform trick for those kind of things I think.
Otherwise you're simply looking at DC 25 handle animal push checks :)

Grand Lodge 1/5

Once you get your Big Cat to level 7 it gets grab and no longer takes AoOs for grappling.

PRD wrote:
If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

Emphasis mine.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Kenji Elindir wrote:

Once you get your Big Cat to level 7 it gets grab and no longer takes AoOs for grappling.

PRD wrote:
If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
Emphasis mine.

I could see reading it that way, but I believe that that sentence is assuming that the creature with the grab ability is using the grab ability. Grab is usually contingent on a specific attack hitting (in this case the bite), which may be hazardous to someones health and only works up to the creatures size. (Large, or possibly huge with enlarge person in pumpkins case, since her humanoid is a sylvan sorcerer). On a less intelligent kitty it wouldn't be worth keeping, but with that many tricks you may have to tackle something bigger than the cat (always a good option if the damage reduction is too high) or skip the bite and go directly to the "carry it by the neck like a kitten" in case you want someone grabbed and alive rather than grabbedand raked to shreds.

Grab (Ex):
If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).

Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Flutter wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
Serve seems to indicate that you need to permanently assign a single person that the animal will listen to. How is that used in PFS? Could I reset the secondary commander every session, or is it only useful if always playing with the same party?
I've always read the designating as being just like having it do any other trick, rather than a specific person thats fixed.

In my case, it is fixed, because my boyfriend and I are playing a husband-wife team in PFS. Of course Zahra trained Pumpkin to listen to Omar! We have gotten quite a bit of use out of the "Serve" trick in game, and Omar has been thrilled that Pumpkin will listen to him based on my Handle Animal DCs,

We've needed "Serve" multiple times, including when we had to lower Pumpkin into a dungeon through a hole using a block & tackle and a makeshift harness. Omar climbed down first so that we had one person on each end to calm Pumpkin. We've also been able to have Omar call Pumpkin to him so that he can get out gear, or have Pumpkin defend someone else.

You know, it has occured to me that it might be cool to include sample builds in here of characters that people are actually doing. That could be quite informative!

Hmm

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'll kick off my hunter then :)

Shamira, hunter 2, Kellid ethnicity, from the Realm of the Mammoth Lords of the Slothjaw following.
Str 18, dex 12, con 14, int 12, wis 14, cha 7.
Traits: Mammoth Lord (regional, +4 handle animal with megafauna), Tireless (faction, exchange, +1 hitpoint and +2 on saves to avoid non-lethal damage from forced march and temperature)
Feats: Power attack, Outflank, Alertness (when adjacent to animal companion)
Special: Eye for Talent human racial trait, for a +2 intelligence to her animal companion and +2 sense motive.
Important skills: handle animal +13 with animal companion, +7 with megafauna, +3 with others, survival +7, perception +7 (+9 when adjacent to animal companion)
Languages: Common, Hallit, Shoanti
Equipment: mw nodachi, mw cold iron bec-de-corbin, alchemical silver light mace, 3x javelin with amentum, breastplate, trained bison (work, stay) with heavy wagon for her adventuring gear and the feed for her animal companion.

Libi, medium sized mammoth (mastodon/elephant), bodyguard archetype.
Str 16 (hunter's animal focus on this stat), dex 14, con 13, int 4, wis 13, cha 7
Feats: Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Outflank, Alertness (when adjacent to Shamira)
Skills: perception +6, linguistics -2 (Hallit)
Equipment: breastplate, training harness
Tricks: Attack (2x), Defend, Flank, Heel, Down, Watch, Aid, Detect, Come, Exclusive, Rattling Strike (skirmisher trick), Tangling Attack (skirmisher trick)

Shamira and Libi are a pair of infanterists (at least until level 7) and will always try to set up flanking positions, with Shamira readying a powerattack for the moment Libi is in position. Against nasty attackers Shamira will tell Libi in Hallit to use her rattling strike, while against creatures that are way too mobile she'll want Libi to use the tangling attack. (Because of courtesy I try to use the skirmisher tricks very sparingly.)

As for the future, at level 3 Shamira will be getting the Lookout feat, which allows her and Libi to always act in the surprise round, Libi possibly getting a full action instead of just a standard action.
Level 4-6 will be used for getting an extra point in intelligence for Shamira to get combat expertise and Pack Flanking. After level 7 when Libi grows to large I'm going towards mounted combat, culminating at level 10 into Mammoth Rider and a huge sized Libi.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Damanta --

That's a cool build. Now I want to ride a mammoth!

Hmm

4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

Flutter,

Any input specific to a Ranger animal companion without Boon Companion? Or general advice for keeping animal companions alive beyond the equipment advice you've already given?

One thing I missed first time going through Animal Archive is the Shield Companion spell. As a ranger, this seems like a very useful spell for keeping the critter alive. I'm somewhat curious how the matching rings are supposed to work when critters don't have a ring slot but since it isn't a magical item I assume pay the gold for the focus and move on.

I'm running a melee ranger, so the Abrahams tank horse doesn't look as interesting as other options.

Thanks! This whole thread is an excellent resource for anyone attempting to run an animal companion.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

I am also going to share my build.

Key aspects of this build as regarding the Animal Companion. My human character Zahra sunk both her starting feats into Boon Companion and Eye for Talent. Eye for Talent is a human alternate racial that allows you to put one +2 bonus into your animal companion's stats. I chose int, which opened up a wealth of tricks and possibilities.

To get animal handling in class, I chose "Savannah Child" a regional trait from Katapesh.

Meanwhile, I am also using the human FCB for sorcerers to get more spells known. I am hoping to be both a versatile spellcaster -- specializing in battlefield control and buffs, as well as having a companion that can fill in where needed in interesting ways.

Zahra Senay, Level 2:

Zahra Senay
Female human (keleshite) sorcerer (wildblooded) 2 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 70)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +1
Defense
AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
hp 14 (2d6+4)
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +4
Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Melee spiked gauntlet -1 (1d4-2)
Ranged light crossbow +3 (1d8/19-20)
Sorcerer (Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +6):
1st (5/day)—color spray (DC 15), grease
0 (at will)—acid splash, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 14), light, mage hand, message, prestidigitation
Statistics
Str 7, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 18
Base Atk +1; CMB -1; CMD 11
Feats Boon Companion, Eschew Materials
Traits friend in every town, savannah child
Skills Diplomacy +9, Handle Animal +10 (+12 vs. Pumpkin while worn), Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (nature) +5, Perform (wind instruments) +7, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +5, Use Magic Device +8; Racial Modifiers +2 Sense Motive
Languages Common, Kelish, Osiriani
SQ mutated bloodline (sylvan)
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (2), wand of mage armor (50 charges), wand of protection from evil (50 charges), acid (2), smelling salts; Other Gear crossbow bolts (10), light crossbow, spiked gauntlet, backpack, belt pouch, candle (10), chalk (10), earplugs, flint and steel, wooden holy symbol (Shelyn), ink, black, inkpen, mug/tankard, masterwork Flute, powder (2), signal whistle, silent whistle, spell component pouch, string or twine, wrist sheath, spring loaded, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 835 gp, 4 sp, 4 cp
Special Abilities
Animal Companion Link (Ex) You have a link with your Animal Companion.
Boon Companion (Animal Companion) +4 levels to calc familiar/animal comp abilities (max of your HD).
Earplugs +2 save vs. hearing effects, -5 hearing-based Perception.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Share Spells with Companion (Ex) Can cast spells with a target of "you" on animal companion, as touch spells.
Sylvan Your magic shows a kinship to that of the beast-talkers and shapechanger fey.
Wand of mage armor (50 charges) Add this item to create a wand of a chosen spell.
Wand of protection from evil (50 charges) Add this item to create a wand of a chosen spell.

Pumpkin, Tiger Animal Companion -- Level 2:

Pumpkin
Male tiger
N Medium animal
Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
Defense
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 16 (+3)
Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +3
Offense
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +3 (1d6+1) and
2 claws +3 (1d4+1) and
unarmed strike +3 (1d3+1)
Special Attacks rake (2 claws +3, 1d4+1)
Statistics
Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 4, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB +3 (+5 grapple); CMD 16 (18 vs. grapple, 20 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike
Tricks Attack, Attack Any Target, Come, Defend, Down, Exclusive, Fetch, Flank, Guard, Heel, Maneuver (Grapple), Seek, Serve
Skills Climb +5, Perception +6, Swim +5
SQ attack any target, come, defend, down, exclusive, fetch, flank, guard, heel, maneuver, seek, serve
Other Gear mwk studded leather, bedroll, blanket, blanket, block and tackle, dandy brush, grappling hook, powder (8), saddlebags, silk rope (50 ft.), training harness, waterskin, whet bone
Special Abilities
Attack Any Target [Trick] The animal will attack any creature on command.
Come [Trick] The animal will come to you on command.
Defend [Trick] The animal will defend you.
Down [Trick] The animal will break off combat on command.
Exclusive [Trick] Takes orders only from its trainer.
Fetch [Trick] The animal will get a specific object.
Flank [Trick] Attempts to attack and flank indicated enemy.
Guard [Trick] The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching.
Heel [Trick] The animal will follow you.
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Maneuver [Trick, Grapple] Attempts specified maneuver against target.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Seek [Trick] The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate.
Serve [Trick, Omar Senay] Takes orders from designated creature.

I built my character alongside my boyfriend's character, Omar. Having the Serve trick on Pumpkin allowed Omar to give commands and calm our favorite bright tiger.

In game, we have used Flank, Fetch, Seek and Maneuver Grapple to great effect. We like the Grappling trick so much that on the free rewrite prior to level two we changed Combat Reflexes to Improved Unarmed Strike in order to get Improved Grapple.

I've also been very careful to hold Pumpkin back when PCs want the spotlight -- when we had a barbarian whose specialty was grappling, Pumpkin did not grapple that session!

The Concordance 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Hmm wrote:
it might be cool to include sample builds in here of characters that people are actually doing

Kaiju, my Spinosaurus, has 1) Armor Proficiency, Light 2) Armor Proficiency, Medium 3) Power Attack 4) Toughness 5) Narrow Frame 6) Undecided (but thinking Extra Item Slot - Ring)

I cast an Extended Greater Magic Fang on her every morning, and she's outfitted with a Corrosive Amulet of Mighty Fists, a Beast Bond Brand, a +2 Green Dragonhide Breastplate Barding, and a Training Harness (she's still young!)

Her Int is still just 2, but I'll bump it to 3 next level.

Ever since 11th level I've been letting her nap in my Hostelling armor. It's safer in there, and she's my 3rd Spinosaurus. Plus, the look on the GM's face when I tell him I'm summoning, and I instead activate my armor, is priceless ^^.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Anyone know of a PFS legal way to get Greater Magic Fang as a spell known for my Sylvan sorcerer? I currently UMD a wand of Magic Fang, but a wand of greater magic fang would be a substantial hit on my savings for a staff of the master.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Pathfinder Savant Prestige Class comes to mind.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hmm, two levels in Savant to get the spell and lose a casting level or buy a third level wand or an amulet of mighty fists after the staff. He is level 8 now, so his next level would be the first in the prestige class. I'll definitely consider it. Thanks Nefreet!

The Exchange

What about having it assigned as one of your first companions tricks. My concern is that since other than being mentioned as a trick that a character uses in a module, it isn't identified as a trick anywhere else as far as I know. If I were to try to use it with my animal during a PFS scenario, how legal would it be?

Kenji Elindir wrote:

Once you get your Big Cat to level 7 it gets grab and no longer takes AoOs for grappling.

PRD wrote:
If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
Emphasis mine.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Foolishpete --

Are we talking now about Maneuver (Grapple) trick or about the Fire Belch Trick that you mentioned earlier? If you're talking about Maneuver (Grapple) you can start with it at first level if you have the Animal Archive -- I did.

If we're talking with the Fire Belch trick, what exactly does the Fire Belch do? If is meant to be purely cosmetic and distracting, I think that Entertain would cover it:

Entertain Trick from Animal Archive wrote:
Entertain (DC 25): The animal can dance, sing, or perform some other impressive and enjoyable trick to entertain those around it. At the command of its owner, the animal can make a Perform check (or a Charisma check if it has no ranks in Perform) to show off its talent. Willing onlookers or those who fail an opposed Sense Motive check take a –2 penalty on Perception checks to notice anything but the animal entertaining them. Tricksters and con artists often teach their animals to perform this trick while they pickpocket viewers or sneak about unnoticed.

As you can see, the trick offers quite a bit of leeway as to what entertaining trick your animal performs.

Hmm

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Fire Belch essentially allows an animal to consume an alchemical drought of some variety (which has been tied around its neck) and "belch" it out as a form of breath weapon.

The specifics are detailed in a certain Free RPG Day Module.

Unfortunately, it can't be found on the Additional Resources Document, so it is not legal outside of that module.

In addition, most tricks require the handler to command the animal. In that module, it's up to the animal to determine when to "belch". If the trick were allowed in PFS, it would essentially default to the GM when the animal would use the trick.

That could be hilarious, though...

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Okay, if Fire Belch has combat value... Yeah, I don't think that would fit under Entertain. Except that it would entertain *me* to watch the GM randomly pick when your Owlbear companion belched fire.

On the other hand, a "no combat" does-no-damage version of Fire Belch (the equivalent of Carnie Fire Eating and Fire Breathing) would probably fit under entertain. It would be pretty and distracting, with no combat value.

What is the intelligence of your Owlbear? Even at 13 tricks with my IQ 14 tiger, I had trouble justifying "Entertain" in my list of options. That will have to wait until Pumpkin's next bonus trick.

Of course, if this is for your PFS day job, you could maybe work this into your Perform backstory?

Hmm

The Exchange

yeah, I didnt reply to the correct post and was talking about fire belch. It makes sense that it isnt on the additional resources page, i just didn't know if it was somewhere else.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Sithis of Fangwood wrote:
and she's outfitted with a Corrosive Amulet of Mighty Fists,

By itself, would this item qualify the natural attacks as a /magic?

If it was +1 then its certain, but it's not a straight +1 so my head hurts.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Shifty wrote:
Sithis of Fangwood wrote:
and she's outfitted with a Corrosive Amulet of Mighty Fists,

By itself, would this item qualify the natural attacks as a /magic?

If it was +1 then its certain, but it's not a straight +1 so my head hurts.

No it does not make the attacks count as magic, but Sithis of Fangwood also stated that he or she also casts Extended Greater Magic Fang (lasts 2hrs per level) which does make the attacks count as magic

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

OK that's what I was thinking, but then I started second guessing myself. Thanks for clarifying :)

The Concordance 5/5 5/55/5 ***

^^

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey Gang --

With Flutter's permission, I have compiled Flutter's posts into a google doc: Druid's Log: Animal Companions.

Please make comments if you would like.

Hmm

5/5 *****

CigarPete wrote:
Anyone know of a PFS legal way to get Greater Magic Fang as a spell known for my Sylvan sorcerer? I currently UMD a wand of Magic Fang, but a wand of greater magic fang would be a substantial hit on my savings for a staff of the master.

The Razmiran Priest archetype allows you to activate divine spell scrolls using your own spell slots without expending the scroll at 9th level.

Dark Archive 4/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
andreww wrote:
CigarPete wrote:
Anyone know of a PFS legal way to get Greater Magic Fang as a spell known for my Sylvan sorcerer? I currently UMD a wand of Magic Fang, but a wand of greater magic fang would be a substantial hit on my savings for a staff of the master.
The Razmiran Priest archetype allows you to activate divine spell scrolls using your own spell slots without expending the scroll at 9th level.

Hmm, you are talking about the archetype from inner sea magic? I'll need to see what I swap out for it. I am using a rebuild anyway, so it would need to happen now I guess...

Grand Lodge

Seems like a good place to post a question or 2 concerning Animal Companions.

I am looking at making a catfolk hunter (not PFS legal, yet, one day hopefully) and am looking at the 2 animal companions she would take: Small Cat and Big Cat.

Both are fun little pets, at least on paper. My questions however are:

1) When my big cat reaches lvl 7 advancement, I do not want him to turn into monster kitty. If I decide to go with the +2 Dex/Con, do I still get the grab/pounce abilities, as well as the AC boost? (Additionally, does he stay medium or grow to large anyway, just a dainty large.) I understand (or at least I think I do) that the damage dice increase is contingent on the size increase.

Boils down to: Do I lose all the improvements for the +2 Dex/Con or just the stat improvements?

2) When my small cat uses it's trip with bite ability, does it use it's Dex in it's CMB. She would have Weapon Finesse, and from what I can find, this is all it takes when making a trip attempt with a weapon. (Since the trip is triggered by a bite, I think it counts.)

Boils down to: Little kitty knocking you over. Does she have to do it by overpowering ya, or can she do the judo trip, precision trip?

Thank You

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

There are so many class archetypes that use the word hunter in them. Can you include a link to the one that you were considering?

Also... I'm confused. Do you plan to have 2 animal companions, or just one and are trying to decide between the two?

Dafydd wrote:

1) When my big cat reaches lvl 7 advancement, I do not want him to turn into monster kitty. If I decide to go with the +2 Dex/Con, do I still get the grab/pounce abilities, as well as the AC boost? (Additionally, does he stay medium or grow to large anyway, just a dainty large.) I understand (or at least I think I do) that the damage dice increase is contingent on the size increase.

Boils down to: Do I lose all the improvements for the +2 Dex/Con or just the stat improvements?

From what I understand, the Level 7 powerup is a package deal. You either get Large and get the pounce and grab, or you pass up the package and get the 2+dex/con. For some creatures, passing up the official advancement might work. For big cats, it would suck. However, if you have animal archive, you might be able to take the "narrow frame" feat on your cat, and still have him be able to squeeze his way through dungeon passages.

Dafydd wrote:

2) When my small cat uses it's trip with bite ability, does it use it's Dex in it's CMB. She would have Weapon Finesse, and from what I can find, this is all it takes when making a trip attempt with a weapon. (Since the trip is triggered by a bite, I think it counts.)

Boils down to: Little kitty knocking you over. Does she have to do it by overpowering ya, or can she do the judo trip, precision trip?

It looks like Weapon Finesse would let you do dex instead of strength. You would also need the trick: Maneuver (Trip).

(Kitty would still take an AOO unless you can get her the Improved Trip feat, which could not happen without you improving her int to at least 3.)

If you wanted her or the big cat to use dex + strength, you would need Fury's Fall feat on top of Improved Trip. Likely too much investment, given that by the time you got the improved int and the other two feats, you would get flying opponents.

Hmm

5/5 *****

CigarPete wrote:
andreww wrote:
CigarPete wrote:
Anyone know of a PFS legal way to get Greater Magic Fang as a spell known for my Sylvan sorcerer? I currently UMD a wand of Magic Fang, but a wand of greater magic fang would be a substantial hit on my savings for a staff of the master.
The Razmiran Priest archetype allows you to activate divine spell scrolls using your own spell slots without expending the scroll at 9th level.
Hmm, you are talking about the archetype from inner sea magic? I'll need to see what I swap out for it. I am using a rebuild anyway, so it would need to happen now I guess...

Yes, that is the one. It is mechanically very effective if you can make the flavour fit.

You activate divine scrolls using a spell slot of 1 level higher than the spell level. That opens up a huge range of spells to you. What you can also do is gain access to Paladin/Inquisitor only spells many levels prior to those classes. I dropped a Holy Sword spell on our groups Barbarian using a level 5 spell slot during Sealed Gate, something a Paladin couldn't normally even cast until level 13.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Hmm wrote:
Dafydd wrote:

2) When my small cat uses it's trip with bite ability, does it use it's Dex in it's CMB. She would have Weapon Finesse, and from what I can find, this is all it takes when making a trip attempt with a weapon. (Since the trip is triggered by a bite, I think it counts.)

Boils down to: Little kitty knocking you over. Does she have to do it by overpowering ya, or can she do the judo trip, precision trip?

It looks like Weapon Finesse would let you do dex instead of strength. You would also need the trick: Maneuver (Trip).

(Kitty would still take an AOO unless you can get her the Improved Trip feat, which could not happen without you improving her int to at least 3.)

If you wanted her or the big cat to use dex + strength, you would need Fury's Fall feat on top of Improved Trip. Likely too much...

Actually, Hmm, because the small cat has the trip attack universal monster ability (Attack bite (1d4 plus trip)), it doesn't need the improved trip feat, nor does it necesarily need the maneuver trick.

However improved trip would give an extra +2 on the check.
That said, yes Weapon Finesse would work for getting dex to trip attempts in this case, because it's based on the natural attack. Weapon Focus: Bite would also add an extra +1 to the trip attempt.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Good luck getting improved trip on an animal, it requires combat expertise as a prerequisite and combat expertise requires int 13.


Yeah, I don't see how any ACs could get an Int up to 13. It's an excellent thought, just not quite feasible. That silly prerequisite of Combat Expertise, and the even sillier prerequisite of Int 13 for that, never made sense to me.

Why do you need an Int of 13 to be able to fight defensively... when you can do that anyway with an Intelligence of 3...?

As far as our own builds... Here's my PFS Hunter that I just started and love so far! Going with the good old wolfy trip build. Going to work on stacking lots of flanking bonuses and penalties to the baddies with the debuffing skirmisher tricks.

So far, I figure at 3rd level (when I pick up Pack Flanking) Alek and Cinderpaw with constantly have a +4 bonus to attack in addition to BaB and Strength bonus as long as they are attacking the same enemy. Total bonus to attack will be +9 for my Hunter at level 3 and then tagging on Cinderpaw's auto trip ability on a successful hit, and tagging on Entangling Strike with the attack... That's essentially an additional +6 to attack. Loooooooooooove it. Lot of working parts, but still... very fun.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Start with a 2+2 from eye for talent, extra slot for a headband +6 then use 3 stat increases (animal level 14) it would be easier for a paladin mount, but still hard


Kigvan wrote:
Start with a 2+2 from eye for talent, extra slot for a headband +6 then use 3 stat increases (animal level 14) it would be easier for a paladin mount, but still hard

Gotcha! Wasn't sure if the headband increase would count towards prereqs for a feat. Hope you don't go into an anti-magic zone!! "I am Tiger, going to grapple you!" *Steps into anti-magic zone* "I am Tiger, who is *not* going to grapple you... Dang it."

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Faelyn: Try to get Tandem Trip and Coordinated Maneuvers mixed in that build at higher level, for rolling twice and getting an extra +2 on the trip attempts :)

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

BretI wrote:

Flutter,

Any input specific to a Ranger animal companion without Boon Companion?

Druids local 704 highly advises against sending these friends into combat. They're going to die. Even hanging around in the back of the party as a rear guard or look out runs the risk of death from an AoE.

Quote:
Or general advice for keeping animal companions alive beyond the equipment advice you've already given?

The down trick. Lots of armor. Most animals can effectively move away from the monster and to the back of the party.

Quote:
One thing I missed first time going through Animal Archive is the Shield Companion spell. As a ranger, this seems like a very useful spell for keeping the critter alive. I'm somewhat curious how the matching rings are supposed to work when critters don't have a ring slot but since it isn't a magical item I assume pay the gold for the focus and move on.

Same here.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Flutter wrote:
BretI wrote:

Flutter,

Any input specific to a Ranger animal companion without Boon Companion?

Druids local 704 highly advises against sending these friends into combat. They're going to die. Even hanging around in the back of the party as a rear guard or look out runs the risk of death from an AoE.

If you do want to them to help out in combat, befriend a flying companion and teach it the fetch and bombard tricks.

Make sure to drop the bag with the alchemist's fire/acid flask/holy water somewhere it won't get attacked.

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