Druids Log: Animal companions


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Grand Lodge 2/5

Flutter wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:


I'm probably never going to actually ride him. The only reason I have the undersized mount feat (and a level in cavalier) is so my hunter can qualify for a worg companion via the monstrous mount feat.

I think you can do that just off of the hunter companion

Prerequisite(s): Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4.

A druid would have to dip hunter or cavalier but a strait hunter seems to meet it.

Quote:
I wanted to be melee, so it was either be a small race with small weapon die (and probably a str penalty) or a human using up my bonus feat on Undersized Mount (so either no feat spent on it or spend a bonus feat on it which nets out to the same number of other feats to spend) and get a str bonus from human floating bonus.

Wayangs are small and don't have as strength penalty. If you get a lance though small cavaliers are amazingly effective, even with the smaller die and minor penalties, X3 damage starts to add up.

Artoo has the right of it. Straight hunter doesn't qualify. I ended up with one level of cavalier since they get a free teamwork feat at first level which will go nicely with being able to share teamwork feats with my worg. And that qualifies for the "mount class feature" at lvl 1 rather than wasting four full levels on a paladin or ranger to get divine/hunter's bond. So one level of cavalier plus 3 more levels of any class that stacks animal companion progression as a druid and 4 ranks in ride so I can still be pretty much exactly what I want.

My guy is already level three at this point and I'm pretty happy with him. He's never going to be the strongest guy at the table (well..he shouldn't be..not that it hasn't already happened a few times), but I'm having fun with him. I actually started lvl 1 as a Wild Child, took lvl 2 as a Cavalier, lvl 3 is a hunter. I'm liking the Wild Child part of it way more than I thought so at lvl 5 (when my hunter is lvl 3) I may switch back to Wild Child progression (but probably not, lol).

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

hmmm.. So you'd loose a level of the animal companion for 1 level (since wolf isn't a legal animal companion for a cavalier* and they don't stack unless they're all on the same list) and then get it back when you took monstrous mount to merge them together?


I've read several posts about players not being able to bring animal companions. One was about a character not being able to bring their tiger to the opera. The character tried to use trickery and bribery to no avail. All the character should have had to say was this is my animal companion and it should have been let in. This is not earth. This is a world where magic exists and is everywhere. If weapons or bodyguards are allowed then any animal companion that fits through the front door should be allowed in. It's not a wild animal that will randomly attack people and poop everywhere, it's an animal companion. I'm sure at an opera many of the humanoid attendees will be wildshaped or polymorphed into large cats and wolves to enjoy the show with more acute hearing.

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

You never know, you could botch the Handle Animal and it just might attack and deficate where it pleases.

2/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's also usually a divinely sanctioned companion of a divine spell caster , I mean seriously you want to piss off Gozreh...isn't that what them people in Abendego did ? God of Hurricanes anyone....

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Merm7th wrote:
I've read several posts about players not being able to bring animal companions. One was about a character not being able to bring their tiger to the opera. The character tried to use trickery and bribery to no avail. All the character should have had to say was this is my animal companion and it should have been let in. This is not earth. This is a world where magic exists and is everywhere. If weapons or bodyguards are allowed then any animal companion that fits through the front door should be allowed in. It's not a wild animal that will randomly attack people and poop everywhere, it's an animal companion. I'm sure at an opera many of the humanoid attendees will be wildshaped or polymorphed into large cats and wolves to enjoy the show with more acute hearing.

We have dogs in a real world setting too, but they're not allowed in most public places either. You can't take a golden retriever into the new york metropolitan opera for example unless its a seeing eye dog.

Now make it 10 times bigger and from a species that actually WILL eat people, and can probably eat your entire security staff if its so inclined to boot.

There's almost no way they're going to let it in without some epic level bluff checks (its a seeing eye tiger?) or disguise checks. "Play dead. Oh this? Its.. erm. My cape. Latest fashion out of oppara. very lifelike isn't it?"

One of the limiting factors on animal companions is that they're not allowed in everywhere. Its deliberate.

2/5 *

We however don't have gods that grant spells and take active interests in thier priests lives. Look at old mythology kill or even inconvenience a sacred animal and bad stuff happened. Also looking back through history nobles and such brought their animals every where its only modern people and super hygiene minded societies that have problems with animals being places.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Flutter wrote:

hmmm.. So you'd loose a level of the animal companion for 1 level (since wolf isn't a legal animal companion for a cavalier* and they don't stack unless they're all on the same list) and then get it back when you took monstrous mount to merge them together?

No lost level, that's what the Undersized Mount feat is for.

d20pfsrd wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Ride 1 rank.

Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.

Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you.

and cavalier

PRD wrote:
Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf

4/5

claudekennilol wrote:
Flutter wrote:

hmmm.. So you'd loose a level of the animal companion for 1 level (since wolf isn't a legal animal companion for a cavalier* and they don't stack unless they're all on the same list) and then get it back when you took monstrous mount to merge them together?

No lost level, that's what the Undersized Mount feat is for.

d20pfsrd wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Ride 1 rank.

Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.

Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you.

and cavalier

PRD wrote:
Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf

But nothing has changed you from a medium cavalier to a small cavalier, and only a small cavalier can select a wolf.

Grand Lodge 2/5

redward wrote:


But nothing has changed you from a medium cavalier to a small cavalier, and only a small cavalier can select a wolf.

If you're going to complain about that and say that feat isn't changing the prereqs on what mount I can or can't pick then that's your prerogative. I just won't sit at your table. I'm not doing anything broken, I just want a worg as a pet instead of a wolf because I think it'd be cool. I think the previous sentence that says "The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount" then following sentences saying what mounts are allowed based on size plus the Undersized Mount feat are more than sufficient.

4/5

claudekennilol wrote:
redward wrote:


But nothing has changed you from a medium cavalier to a small cavalier, and only a small cavalier can select a wolf.
If you're going to complain about that and say that feat isn't changing the prereqs on what mount I can or can't pick then that's your prerogative. I just won't sit at your table. I'm not doing anything broken, I just want a worg as a pet instead of a wolf because I think it'd be cool. I think the previous sentence that says "The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount" then following sentences saying what mounts are allowed based on size plus the Undersized Mount feat are more than sufficient.

I think you're right. Your emphases confused me, though.

Quote:
Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf.
Quote:

Undersized Mount

Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.

So you are capable of riding a wolf (due to Undersized Mount) and it is suitable as a mount (since it's an option for cavaliers).

That's probably how I'd frame it to a skeptical GM. An especially prickly GM may say Undersized Mount lets you ride anything your size but doesn't affect what you can select as a Cavalier because it doesn't explicitly say it does. But I agree that is splitting hairs and likely not RAI.


Flutter wrote:
Merm7th wrote:
I've read several posts about players not being able to bring animal companions. One was about a character not being able to bring their tiger to the opera. The character tried to use trickery and bribery to no avail. All the character should have had to say was this is my animal companion and it should have been let in. This is not earth. This is a world where magic exists and is everywhere. If weapons or bodyguards are allowed then any animal companion that fits through the front door should be allowed in. It's not a wild animal that will randomly attack people and poop everywhere, it's an animal companion. I'm sure at an opera many of the humanoid attendees will be wildshaped or polymorphed into large cats and wolves to enjoy the show with more acute hearing.

We have dogs in a real world setting too, but they're not allowed in most public places either. You can't take a golden retriever into the new york metropolitan opera for example unless its a seeing eye dog.

Now make it 10 times bigger and from a species that actually WILL eat people, and can probably eat your entire security staff if its so inclined to boot.

There's almost no way they're going to let it in without some epic level bluff checks (its a seeing eye tiger?) or disguise checks. "Play dead. Oh this? Its.. erm. My cape. Latest fashion out of oppara. very lifelike isn't it?"

One of the limiting factors on animal companions is that they're not allowed in everywhere. Its deliberate.

An animal companion is an animal with a divine magical link to its owner. The most well trained dog in history doesn't compare to an animal companion. Also, I said if it fits through the front door which would be some large, medium, and smaller. This 10 times bigger then a dog, 25" tall at the shoulder animal ain't fitting through the door. In a society where a good portion of the people have companions and familiar, most places will be equipped. Unless being intolerant is their niche.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

Merm7th wrote:


An animal companion is an animal with a divine magical link to its owner. The most well trained dog in history doesn't compare to an animal companion. Also, I said if it fits through the front door which would be some large, medium, and smaller. This 10 times bigger then a dog, 25" tall at the shoulder animal ain't fitting through the door. In a society where a good portion of the people have companions and familiar, most places will be equipped. Unless being intolerant is their niche.

1) actually, a very well trained animal in the real world is in some ways far better trained than the best trained PFS animal can be. There are lots of tricks that aren't in Animal Archive and hence unobtainable in PFS.

2) expect extreme GM variation in what animals are allowed where under what circumstances (both social and physical). Arguments you make here are NOT going to change that. It is a fact of PFS life that you'll have to deal with. I'm fairly liberal in what I allow Animal Companions to get away with but there are limits (and those limits ARE affected by the actual animal and the tricks it knows). Hostelling armour, Carry Companion, etc are all PFS sanctioned. Use them or expect the occasional disappointment.


pauljathome wrote:
Merm7th wrote:


An animal companion is an animal with a divine magical link to its owner. The most well trained dog in history doesn't compare to an animal companion. Also, I said if it fits through the front door which would be some large, medium, and smaller. This 10 times bigger then a dog, 25" tall at the shoulder animal ain't fitting through the door. In a society where a good portion of the people have companions and familiar, most places will be equipped. Unless being intolerant is their niche.

1) actually, a very well trained animal in the real world is in some ways far better trained than the best trained PFS animal can be. There are lots of tricks that aren't in Animal Archive and hence unobtainable in PFS.

2) expect extreme GM variation in what animals are allowed where under what circumstances (both social and physical). Arguments you make here are NOT going to change that. It is a fact of PFS life that you'll have to deal with. I'm fairly liberal in what I allow Animal Companions to get away with but there are limits (and those limits ARE affected by the actual animal and the tricks it knows). Hostelling armour, Carry Companion, etc are all PFS sanctioned. Use them or expect the occasional disappointment.

Fair enough.

Dark Archive 5/5 *

I just went to lvl 10 taking mammoth rider.
can I just swap out my dinosaur ac for a mastadon?

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

My interpretation is:

Is your dinosaur on the list of animal companions the mammoth rider replaces your former list with?
If yes: then no, you'll have to release your old one and retrain the new one.
If no: then yeah, you even have to, and thus get one fully trained.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

joe kirner wrote:

I just went to lvl 10 taking mammoth rider.

can I just swap out my dinosaur ac for a mastadon?

How is the replacement of a dead familiar, animal companion or paladin’s or cavalier's mount handled?:

If you lose a companion during the course of a scenario, work with your GM for that scenario to properly note the loss on your Chronicle sheet. You should also note that you’ve gained your new companion. The new companion is ready for play in the next scenario after your previous companion died. Newly summoned animal companions begin play knowing a number of tricks equal to the bonus tricks granted based on your druid level. All other tricks require the use of Handle Animal to train the new animal companion as normal.

You release the dino and acquire the mammoth *tap taps a foot* after thanking him for his service and throwing him a party to wish him well in his new life of course.

The mammoth shows up knowing only his 4 bonus tricks, attack attack down and heel would be good choices.

Grand Lodge 2/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

**tries to envisage shouting "down" or "heel" at a mammoth, gives up**

Grand Lodge 4/5

Darrell Impey UK wrote:
**tries to envisage shouting "down" or "heel" at a mammoth, gives up**

I dunno. If you use the "Come" command, you gotta just hope the thing knows when to stop moving toward you, otherwise you might just as well call it the "Trample" command...

Grand Lodge 1/5

So during a recent session I was running there was a character with an animal companion that used it to defend another character. No problem with that, the thing that occurred to me was do tricks like defend/guard adjust a companions initiative score when triggered? Would they allow the companion to attack each qualifying target in the same round? I feel like I should understand this but it is eluding me for some reason.

1/5

R2D2TS wrote:
So during a recent session I was running there was a character with an animal companion that used it to defend another character. No problem with that, the thing that occurred to me was do tricks like defend/guard adjust a companions initiative score when triggered? Would they allow the companion to attack each qualifying target in the same round? I feel like I should understand this but it is eluding me for some reason.

You're asking several things at once.

1. An animal companion can only attack as many times as it has normal attacks and it can only take one AoO unless it has Combat Reflexes and a +2 or higher Dex modifier.

2. As far as changing the creature's init, that only happens when you use the Ready or Delay action.

Perhaps what you're asking is if given the Defend command, would the creature then start taking AoO's as NPCs passed on the way to attack the person being defended?

First, how would the animal know that the creature moving past it with a weapon drawn was actually going to attack the person it was defending? It wouldn't. An animal has a 2 INT and it's not going to anticipate attacks, it's going to defend someone that has been attacked.

Even with a 3 INT, the creature should not attack NPCs that do not specifically attack the creature being defended. If you wanted the animal to attack anyone who moved passed a spot, that would be the Guard command, not Defend.

Now, if given the Guard or Defend command, would the animal have a Ready action to attack anyone who moved into the square or attacked the creature being guarded? I would think so, but I've not seen any GMs allow that. Typically the creature just attacks on its turn. If the Ready action were allowed, then yes, the creature would have its init changed per the Ready rules.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
N N 959 wrote:


1. An animal companion can only attack as many times as it has normal attacks and it can only take one AoO unless it has Combat Reflexes and a +2 or higher Dex modifier.

It only needs Combat Reflexes and a +1 or higher dex mod to take more than 1 AOO (combat reflexes adds your dex mod to the number of AOO's you can take)

*

Flutter wrote:
Quote:
I do not need to do any training rolls since the owlbear start off knowing their tricks. Since I only have 6 tricks (if I did my math correctly) why wouldn’t you always choose heel instead of come. By giving the command of heel, doesn’t your animal “come” to your side automatically?
Pretty much. You can almost use them interchangeably.

I decided not to comment on this months ago in this most excellent guide since it has come up again I shall.

Quote:
  • Come (DC 15): The animal comes to you, even if it normally would not do so.
  • Heel (DC 15): The animal follows you closely, even to places where it normally wouldn't go.

Telling an animal to heel that is not next to you is confusing (especially if you told them to stay (DC 15) and then walked away).

Telling an animal to come as you are moving is confusing (at the very least it turns it into a game that undermines the training).

Yes if I tell you to make breakfast and you are in the bedroom you can infer that you need to first go to the kitchen. Can an 8 year old make this inference? Can a 3 year old?

Yes, IRL a dog can infer that to heel it needs to come to you first, but I would not expect that of a cat. Yes this is a fantasy game and yes your companion is not the average cat/dino/horse/pig.

Is this distinction important? To an animal trainer yes. To the PRD/core rules yes (that's why they are separate tricks). To the player, maybe. Two distinct rules, by RAW need to be run distinctively. I can think of a handful of scenarios where getting next to you would mean your critter needs to jump a sewer, climb a ladder, or jump into a hole. Heel would not be sufficient for these circumstances IMHO, unless it was already by your side.

At the very least in PFS I would say expect table variation.

1/5

I believe the purpose of the Heel and Come commands are more focused around the idea that the animal is still an animal and will avoid danger unless commanded to do otherwise. For example, if you need to jump through a wall of fire, you can issue the Heel command and the animal will follow you. Alternatively you can cross the wall of fire and issue the Come command and the animal will cross as well.

While I agree that a Heel command given to an animal 10' away will probably not result in the animal moving, if the master then moves another 10' away, the animal would "follow closely."

There is going to be some overlap just as there is with skills. That is not a bad thing, nor should it be actively resisted. Use of one or the other can also be a stylistic thing. If the master needs to move down a hall of monster NPCs, a Heel issued at the onset will make the animal follow. A Come at the end of the hall will achieve the same result. Now, it's too bad that the rules don't allow for simultaneous movement as that would make Heel quite valuable if it allowed the animal to move with the master as a mount does.

The other thing to remember is that both these commands are needed when it would not be "normal" for the animal to do so. You don't need either if there is no threat to the animal. The animal will naturally come to and follow its master.

Should there be some situation where the GM should force the player to use a Move action and Push the animal to Heel or Come if the trick is not known? Perhaps, but I think GMs should treat the situation with a light touch because the rules regarding AComs are not particularly robust and are written in a manner that festers table variation.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Actually, crossing fiery barriers requires its own trick: cinderbrave.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:
Actually, crossing fiery barriers requires its own trick: cinderbrave.

Where is that trick out of?

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Curaigh wrote:
Is this distinction important? To an animal trainer yes. To the PRD/core rules yes (that's why they are separate tricks). To the player, maybe. Two distinct rules, by RAW need to be run distinctively. I can think of a handful of scenarios where getting next to you would mean your critter needs to jump a sewer, climb a ladder, or jump into a hole. Heel would not be sufficient for these circumstances IMHO, unless it was already by your side.

I cannot for the life of me see what benefit it would add to the game for the dm to arbitrarily decide when the trick to be called for would be heel or come. It would be subject to coin toss levels of table variation in every single case, with no possible justification given. Its just annoying, pedantic, nitpicky, arbitrary, and random to the player when the dm declares "ha! No! You need the come trick for that! or "you need the heel trick for that!" when there is zero discernible difference between them.

Part of what makes them so similar is that the druid or ranger can do it as a free action thank to the link ability. The two tricks may have slight variations when you need to constantly stop and call the dog over instead of telling it to heel, but as a free action the distinction vanishes.

Dark Archive 5/5 *

Sending yojr pet thru a wall of fire would require a push dc roll. Possibly not allowed to start with.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Flutter wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Actually, crossing fiery barriers requires its own trick: cinderbrave.
Where is that trick out of?

Legacy of Fire Players Guide

(though I can't find it on either Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd)

1/5

joe kirner wrote:
Sending yojr pet thru a wall of fire would require a push dc roll. Possibly not allowed to start with.

There is no trick to "send your pet thru a wall of fire." If there is a wall of fire between you and the animal, per RAW, the Come command will compel the animal to come even when it would normally not do so. That is the purpose of the Trick, to deal with situations like that.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Nefreet wrote:
Flutter wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Actually, crossing fiery barriers requires its own trick: cinderbrave.
Where is that trick out of?

Legacy of Fire Players Guide

(though I can't find it on either Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd)

Hmm... Digging further, that doesn't seem to be the sourcebook, either.

It's somewhere, though.

And its existence implies that Come or Heel wouldn't work under fiery circumstances.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:


And its existence implies that Come or Heel wouldn't work under fiery circumstances.

Possibly, possibly not.

There's a huge problem with interpreting the rules that way. For starters, its hard to make a judgement based off of a trick you don't know exists. It also makes it a bit out of left field for the player seeing "the animal follows you where it ordinarily wouldn't" and obviously not reaching the conclusion "oh unless there's fire involved"

Secondly a lot of things have come up as individual powers that you could do before: identifying poisons, spreading rumors, etc were all simple skill checks that had an ability crop up around them that... simply didn't need to exist. It renders previously effective characters unable to do their job just because something new came out.

1/5

Nefreet wrote:
And its existence implies that Come or Heel wouldn't work under fiery circumstances.

But would work under any other elemental/damage type conditions?

Barring a FAQ which states that fire is the one obstacle that Come doesn't work on...it works in the case of fire. I seriously doubt Paizo intended to trap your animal in burning building unless you teach it cinderbrave, or whatever it is you think applies.

Paizo has quality control issues with non-Core material retroactively changing rules when there was no intent for Core to be changed.

Dark Archive 5/5 *

Those commands would work but you would need to push your pet with a dc 25 handle animal.
Fido is not going to just trot thru a wall of fire to get to his master.

1/5

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joe kirner wrote:

Those commands would work but you would need to push your pet with a dc 25 handle animal.

Fido is not going to just trot thru a wall of fire to get to his master.

The Trick explicitly says it will. That is the point/benefit of actually teaching the animal Come or Heel. So it will follow you through fire/caltrops/AoOs, etc. without having to "push" the animal. Ruling otherwise would be a house rule and is illegal in PFS.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I know the trick exists.

The first time it came up, and when I first learned about it, was when I GMed a scenario requiring the PCs to jump over lava-filled intersections to get to the boss (without giving away the scenario name). I had no clue the trick existed, and the PC told me he had it, and used it to guide his Deinonychus to the boss.

The second time it came up, with a different player, was when cultists force you into a furnace as part of a ritual. The PCs just killed the cultists, but still had to get through the furnace. The PC was a Treesinger Druid, and I joked about him tossing his Treant into the furnace. He said it was okay, that he had cinderbrave, and we all laughed.

I never took the trick because I knew I didn't have the sourcebook.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

According to the internet it's in Curse of the Crimson Throne (#7-12)
#7: Edge of Anarchy
Sidebar: Burn Riding (p. 75): Burn Rider [feat] / Cinderbrave (Handle Animal trick) [skill]

Since this is not a legal resource, that trick doesn't exist for PFS and thus Heel/Come are the defaults.

Edit: changed wording slightly, also getting someone who has that book to check it.
Edit 2: confirmed, it's in that book.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Ah. Well. That's a different issue, then.

"Not legal" basically means "Doesn't exist", so it would default back to the original tricks.

I shall let them know next time I see them.

5/5 *****

Nefreet wrote:

Ah. Well. That's a different issue, then.

"Not legal" basically means "Doesn't exist", so it would default back to the original tricks.

I shall let them know next time I see them.

Even if it was within a useable source the existence of a trick which does one thing does not automatically invalidate every other option which does the same or similar things. There are loads of examples of things which overlap in terms of their effect on the game.

Also, not legal doesn't mean it does not exist, it means players cannot make use of it. GM's still can and often do with all sorts of sources which are used by scenarios. Players can certainly be affected by rules in source materials they cannot use to make characters.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I wish there was a PFS legal online compendium for all the handle animal tricks, especially since there is at least one carefully hidden. Also not everyone who is starting out with animal companions has bought the Animal Archives yet.

Scarab Sages 2/5

Nefreet wrote:
Flutter wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Actually, crossing fiery barriers requires its own trick: cinderbrave.
Where is that trick out of?

Legacy of Fire Players Guide

(though I can't find it on either Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd)

Tricks don't exist on the Archives at the moment, though I've entertained the thought of adding them. Going back through all 200+ sourcebooks at the moment looking for new tricks isn't feasible though. Perhaps I'll start it as a group effort at some point :)

The Exchange 5/5

This Cinderdance is the first trick I learn of that's not in either the CRB or the Animal Archives.

It's not on d20pfsrd because the source was written in/under the 3.5 ruleset and not the pathfinder ruleset.

Edit:
I just noticed that Belkzen: Hold of the Orc Hordes is on the additional resources. It adds 2 new legal companions (the bristle boar and whisperfall vulture) and best of all, it adds my new favorite toy for my mammoth: Tusk Blades

My only question would be, can they be made from adamantine (for +3000 gp as per the weapons entry in adamantine).

*

Firstly, I am not saying this is a game breaker. I only want to point out the two tricks are different.

Flutter wrote:


I cannot for the life of me see what benefit it would add to the game for the dm to arbitrarily decide when the trick to be called for would be heel or come. It would be subject to coin toss levels of table variation in every single case, with no possible justification given.

Here is one (and a reason behind the distinction).

N N 959 wrote:
...If the master needs to move down a hall of monster NPCs, a Heel issued at the onset will make the animal follow. A Come at the end of the hall will achieve the same result. Now, it's too bad that the rules don't allow for simultaneous movement as that would make Heel quite valuable if it allowed the animal to move with the master as a mount does.

There are a lot of reasons a PC will not want their pet at their side as they move. Perhaps the PC bypasses hazards to make sure the way is safe. She moves past monsters, pits, traps, narrow bridges, lava, or jumps onto a wobbly ice flow first. Perhaps the PC's stealth is better without an 800 pound triceratops at her side. Perhaps that hydra has 11+ attacks of opportunity & combat reflexes. Perhaps the PC wants flanking and move into position & leave the pet where it is. Some GMs and players have the critter act on its own initiative, not on the player's which is also an important difference.

The distinction is not arbitrary. Is the pet by the PC's side? Y = heel, N = come. Is the free action before the PC's move or after? Of course...

N N 959 wrote:
The other thing to remember is that both these commands are needed when it would not be "normal" for the animal to do so. You don't need either if there is no threat to the animal. The animal will naturally come to and follow its master.

The presence of a threat is important. No threat, no distinction is necessary.

Again, I really love what you've created with this thread and do not mean to detract from it.


Hey guys, question on big cats and how all their abilities work...

Okay, big Cats receive Rake as 1st level animal companions, but how exactly does that work? Also, big cats do not actually receive Grab/Pounce until 7th level. So for my own understanding, it would seem that to use Rake before 7th level a big cat would first have to make a grapple attempt and provoke an AoO in the process.

Also, upon reaching 7th level, they gain Grab, but it does not specify which attack gains the Grab special attack. In that case, do you go off the original Bestiary version of said AnC?

I ask, because I just was accepted into a Giantslayer campaign on the GM is allowing me to use the Warcat of Rull for my AnC. I'm fairly new to AnCs and do not have a full grasp on the animal rules just yet. I know this thread is in PFS territory, but it really helped me out when I made my very first AnC character (a hunter for PFS) and you all are quite helpful with silly questions!

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/55/55/5

Faelyn wrote:

Hey guys, question on big cats and how all their abilities work...

Okay, big Cats receive Rake as 1st level animal companions, but how exactly does that work? Also, big cats do not actually receive Grab/Pounce until 7th level. So for my own understanding, it would seem that to use Rake before 7th level a big cat would first have to make a grapple attempt and provoke an AoO in the process.

Correct.

Rake works a little funny when its not used with pounce. Maintaining a grapple is a standard action, which means that the creature can't full attack, so it loses its claw attacks, which it gets back with the rake attacks, but it ONLY gets back the rake. When not pouncing It grapple rake rakes, it doesn't grapple claw claw rake rake.

Quote:
Also, upon reaching 7th level, they gain Grab, but it does not specify which attack gains the Grab special attack. In that case, do you go off the original Bestiary version of said AnC?

Probably a fair way to do it.

Both the lion and tiger have it on the bite. That's what I'd go with.

[quoteI ask, because I just was accepted into a Giantslayer campaign on the GM is allowing me to use the Warcat of Rull for my AnC. I'm fairly new to AnCs and do not have a full grasp on the animal rules just yet. I know this thread is in PFS territory, but it really helped me out when I made my very first AnC character (a hunter for PFS) and you all are quite helpful with silly questions!

There are silly questions but thats not one of them.


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Thank you for the timely and informative response Flutter! I try to keep updated with all the new posts in this thread. I used to avoid classes with animal companions for whatever reason, but ever since I found this thread to break it all down... I love AnC classes, especially Hunters! :)

Grand Lodge 2/5

I also love hunters. It's quickly becoming my favorite class.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Flutter wrote:

Part I

Few things require as much DM adjudication as the diverse and wonderful world of animal companions.

You haven't run that many Summoners, yet, have you? :)

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

claudekennilol wrote:
I also love hunters. It's quickly becoming my favorite class.

Hunters are amazing I have recently started my second, though that one is a feral hunter (and only one level) since I wanted to get some more time with my aspects.

The handle animal rules ... still not a fan, but since most GMs really don't want to deal with them anyway, all that happens is that my AC has to wait until my initiative order.

Also amateuer swashbuckler gives my lion, quite a bit of flair an panache ^^

Grand Lodge 2/5

After level 2 (or maybe 3, I don't really remember) I haven't had to roll anything, and before that it was only when my AC was damaged.

Now that my Ant Haul spell lasts a reliable amount of time, I've just taken to riding my AC. Luckily I invested in ride, too, as that negates most of the need for Handle Animal because it turns them into ride checks (not that it matters because I have both maxed). Also no ride check penalty to tell your mount to attack when damaged. DC is still 10. Moving your mount is only a DC 5 ride check. But any character with an AC should have a check high enough that they don't need to roll most of the time.

Most GMs I've played with just let me control him on my turn. Only one GM in a dozen or so games wanted me to roll separately and even then the result was the same (delay until it's the same result). I didn't "cheat" by buying up my own initiative really high, and my AC actually has a higher check than mine (3 vs 2) so it really doesn't make that big a difference.

But that being said, my tactics for myself would be for me to move up to the enemy, tell wolf (free action to handle) to flank and attack, then ready an action for myself to "attack this guy when Wolf stops moving". I screwed myself over a few times by saying things like "after wolf hits the guy" (obviously if he misses that one fails) or "wolf gets in flank position" (which also doesn't work if he somehow gets stopped along the way). So, I'd delay until wolf acted which would happen immediately, so I still stayed in my same spot on the initiative.

I could tell that I was overplanning for some GMs, but it was the way most within the rules and went rather quickly once I knew what I was doing.

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