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When reviewing the retrain rules about archetypes to non archetype, the rules state you spend 5 days unlearning the replaced feature. However with the Shaman archetype the features aren't replaced they are just modified. The first ability that mentions replacement is the 5th level Totemic Summons which replaces an ability you don't get til 13th.
So if you are level 4 is there no cost to retrain since you haven't replaced anything?
Or must you pay to adjust the modified abilities and any replaced abilities as well as totemic transformation?
Or you would just pay to remove totemic transformation?
I believe there should be a cost, but what is the appropriate cost especially in regards to PFS.
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Natures bond says must select specific animal and wild empathy states the the bonus works with specific animal types.
So if you have to retrain those two, I would think that since the transformation doesn't replace and or effect any of the base druid it shouldn't cost?
If I have to pay for three removals I just won't do it and deal with being a stupid animal shaman...
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Archetype
You can use the retraining rules to acquire an archetype for your class or abandon an archetype you have.To gain an archetype that replaces standard class abilities you already have, you must spend 5 days for every alternate class feature you would add, subtract, or replace by taking that archetype. At the end of the training period, you lose the standard class features and replace them with the archetype's alternate class features (if any).
To abandon an archetype, you must spend 5 days for every alternate class feature you already have from that archetype. At the end of the retraining, you lose the archetype's class features and gain the standard class features for the class.
Swapping one archetype for another requires two retraining sessions: one to abandon the archetype, and then one to gain the new one.
Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype.
Example: Logan's 4th-level fighter has the archer archetype. Because he is 4th level, he has two alternative class features from his archetype (hawkeye at 2nd level and trick shot at 3rd level), so he must spend 10 days and 400 gp retraining to abandon this archetype. If he were 5th level, he would also have the expert archer alternative class feature, which would increase his retraining to 15 days and 750 gp.
The "alternate class features" of a 4th level Shaman are better Wild Empathy and Totem Transformation. Thinking it over, I don't believe having the Nature Bond class feature restricted is an "alternate class feature", because you could have those choices as a regular Druid, but the other two are something the standard Druid does not get.
So, two features, 10 days/PP, and however much gold.
(unless anyone else wants to chime in... I'm totally open to being wrong)
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Mine is the Ssssstupid. Not anyone else's.
And Wild empathy is actually a very convoluted trade off. Better with some animals with the exclusion to all others, and in the case of Bear shaman it only includes bears and wolverine. Wouldn't consider it better Wild Empathy just more restrictive with a slight bonus.
Rereading it again here in your copy, I believe that you would probably need to pay to remove all 3 and then start over. So not worth it in PFS.
Whats really sort of lame, except for one other game the only time I've "played" this character was the First Steps trilogy, the rest is all GM credits.
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I'm sorry a full caster with a second set of actions per turn isn't living up to your expectations. Bear Shaman isn't the best pick of an archetype that isn't the best itself, but the druid chassis is still one of the strongest in the game. And due to a poor case of editing, you still get wild shape starting at 4th. So... not exactly what I'd call "stupid."
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Nothing wrong with the druid, I like it. The bear shaman archetype specifically was what I found I didn't really enjoy. I went bear shaman before I'd really considered it since I was using the We Be Goblins 2 special Animal Companion.
Shaman's wild shape is different than standaed wild shape so you don't get it at 4th, it is delayed to 6.
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I think the RAI is that if you reach a level where the archetype gives you something, that's 5 prestige for that level you have to spend.
So if you get a "modified ability" at 1st level, you have to spend 5 prestige to retrain that level.
It's probably the same deal if you get two class features on an archetype on a single level. That aligns with retraining a regular class level as a lite-version.
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Yeah, Avatar-1. Pretty sure that is how it works. So not going to retrain.
The character in question has primarily been a GM chronicle blob character that I play occasionally when I run across a scenario in whatever the current level range is. The character is really close to level 6, and we'll see how it is then.
And Mr.Felsic you are quite right, dinosaur shaman isn't stupid. However, dinosaurs is not owlbears.
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most of the shamans dont live up to expectation if you really like to wildshape cause there are few huge shapes within there area of expertise. So by the time you get to do it at 6th you really dont get much else. But dont for get that you can now bring in those bears as a standard action. That becomes pretty handy at times. Not sure if you have done this yet, but if not try adding the young template to the bear and you might be surprised in how tough it is for those early levels.