Spell Resistance as an automatic racial or class ability should either not exist, or have the option of lowering/raising as a free action that can be taken out of turn.
As an item or spell, at least you can remove it more easily or decide to swap it out for something else at a later time once you find it being more hindrance than help.
Not being able to get a stabilize while bleeding out because your allies can't get past your SR is just silly (and various other buffs/healing scenarios).
Perhaps the ability to designate an ally (or allies) that are able to bypass the SR?
It's as if you were to say "at 15th level, all the fighter's attacks are treated as having the Vicious weapon special ability". It hurts as much as it harms, and no way out of it!
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Honestly, I don't like the "allies can't help me" aspect of superstition myself, and I've heard as much naysaying as praise on that one.
Also, it's not quite as good a comparison. Rage powers only affect while raging, so the Barbarian can easily time exactly when and where he can't get help. It's a proactive ability.
Diamond Soul is on all the time. If the Monk can't drop it proactively for some reason (confusion, unconscious, various "no act" conditions, etc), he's out of luck. It's an automatic ability.
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Tongue of Sun and Moon could have been granted at a much lower level. It mimics spells of 3rd level or lower, so really... getting it around 5th level or thereabouts wouldn't break the game.
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I like etherealness and dimension door, personally. The feats make dimension door neat.
However, in talking with my brother we were thinking a lower level ability that let you project yourself (astral body style) into the ethereal plane would make a good out-of-combat role.
Can't affect anything, but you are effectively invisible and can pass through walls, and essentially scout ahead. Though, things that can see or affect the ethereal plane (ghost touch, true seeing, etc) will affect you normally. Hence the low level aspect.
Makes the monk a nice choice for certain scouting options.
Perhaps a "if you have X ki" ability, so it's reusable, but requires your body being stationary and unaware while you gallivant around unable to protect yourself (both astrally and corporeally). Give it a range limitation that goes up with levels. Slap a 1 minute meditation requirement to activate so you can't just pop in and out whenever.
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The save DC for quivering palm is not going to cut it vs most bestiary encounters, and against it's best target (low Fort save NPC), it's still a 50% chance.
Also, not sure what you mean by "do it every round at no action cost", since the ability is 1/day, and if they pass the save they are no longer affected by that application of quivering palm. It's a one-shot, two chances to avoid it kind of thing (like phantasmal killer, only with an attack roll + save, vs two different saves).
Perhaps if there was a way to set a favorable condition to increase the DC by 5 or something, like.. if the creature is also stunned or staggered, something to that effect. Then you make it harder to set up (using Gorgon's fist or Stunning fist, or relying on an ally maybe), but more likely to succeed if you do it that way.
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High jump is a good one, but I think it didn't go far enough. The biggest limiter to jumping high is the reduction for height calculation. Remove the "divide by 4" aspect for the Monk and you've got yourself a high jumper worthy of far-flung martial artists. :)
The spell resistance of diamond soul (and all spell resistance for that matter) can be suppressed for one round as a standard action.
Can you pick out the one word there that makes it suck hard?
Yes, but it's usually the times when you can't perform that standard action, that you need assistance the most.
Though daily buffing, and buffing before combat ever starts, is quite possible, absolutely.
Oh, oh, I know! Pick me! Pick me! Is it "the?"The spell resistance of diamond soul (and all spell resistance for that matter) can be suppressed for one round as a standard action.Can you pick out the one word there that makes it suck hard?
Smartass. =p
But seriously, having to give up your entire turn (basically) to allow yourself to be buffed...or healed...or whatever is pretty damn bad.
Honestly, I don't like the "allies can't help me" aspect of superstition myself, and I've heard as much naysaying as praise on that one.
I used to feel mixed about it in when Core was the only book out, and the only option was "reasonably strong saves vs hostile spells in return for having to save against friendly ones."
Now that you have human favored class bonuses, courageous weapons, and whatever else there may be, this is actually a much better trade, since it's now "amazingly strong saves vs hostile spells in return for having to save against friendly ones."
The jacking up of the Superstition bonus that the later books have enabled comes with not much downside, because beneficial spells often already had low DCs. If you were going to have superstition +6, then superstition +12 doesn't represent much more of a sacrifice on that count.
The really bad aspect of Monk SR is that it helps him where he needs the least help (because his saves and spell defenses were already strong without it, it often blocks spells he could have saved against anyway) and hurts him where it hurts the most (because what he most needs, buff spells to help him hit, deal damage, and heal his MAD d8 ass, is precisely what spell resistance makes difficult).
All those ideas are in complete opposition to what Pathfinder rules are : you make exceptions-type of rules (such as deleting penalties and adding WIS everywhere) instead of improving the class with what already exist.
WIS to damage is bad. A scaling bonus, such as a scaling Enhancement bonus to unarmed attacks would be much nicer for example (while being simpler and more intuitive that what the monk already gets). Makes it an ability usable for 1 ki point, with a duration of 1 minute per monk level.
No TWF penalty : he doesn't lack a +2. He lacks a +5 to be able to reliably hit something (and even more when not full attacking). Start by making him full BAB. The scaling enhancement bonus will also boost his to-hit as he gains levels.
And a monk already adds his WIS modifier to CMD.
I would compensate by :
=> Making Fortitude a bad save
=> Making the Crane wing an attack check in opposition against his opponent attack check (instead of a no-check ability).
=> Making his monk bonus to AC and CMD (the WIS + level/4) typed as armor bonus (for AC only), while reducing the CMD bonus to half that (but untyped).Monks don't add wis to CMB though. That was the point.
I also don't find any of your critiques valid. I also don't agree with your opening statement.
EDIT: Monk armor bonus is already added to CMD.
I did suggest to change the "better-than-dodge" bonus into Armor bonus. So you can't add another armor type bonus item/spell (mage Armor, bracers of armor). It will also lessen its touch AC.
I also suggested to half that bonus to CMD (so if you get +8 from that feature, you only get +4 to CMD, not +8).Adding a check to the crane wing also makes it more in line with other pathfinder abilities.
Making the fortitude save a bad save makes it more in line with other pathfinder classe (every other classes have 1 or 2 good saves). Reflex and will categorize the monk as a disciplined and athletic guy.
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And then, you can work to make the monk do something useful for the group.
Solution 1 : boost his combat abilities (good BAB, scaling enhancement bonus to unarmed, ...)
Or
Solution 2 : boost his mystic abilities (more spell-like powers, better senses, ...).
You know, getting something useful to bring to the team in exchange of some of its defensive abilities.
In my experience the monk is not underpowered. The only thing I would change is giving it the ability to temporarily increase attack rolls for fights against extremely high AC targets. That's pretty much it. You could accomplish that with the ki pool. If the designers say gave Monks the ability to boost their attack roll by +4 as a Swift Action for one round, they would fix the monk.
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wait...people lament about fighters combat ability!?! It's the only thing they do well!Exactly...
Although the will save thing is a bit of a myth
It's something there are solutions to, unlike the monk's problems, I will agree. I have also been informed by a monk fanaticist that losing one save to domination means it's over, curtains, end of battle. Mind you, this was after we ran the numbers between his monk and my fighter and found that odds of them "losing" was about the same...it just took the monk twice as long to win.
wait...people lament about fighters combat ability!?! It's the only thing they do well!Pretty much they whine about all the classes, but the martial class most of all. Currently Monk*, rogue & fighter are the classes certain people are whinging on about. Over & over.
Currently? You mean, since Pathfinder was released. As in, the same three classes, all the time. Hmmm. Wonder if there's a reason for that? What is it they all say? Weakest three classes in the game? Hmmm.
We play a 13th lvl game with a rogue and a fighter, and the Fighter is BY FAR the most dangerous PC in a party of six, far more than my maxed out Sorc.
Mind you, I certainly would like to see the Fighter get 4 skp/lvl, but the class hardly needs a combat boost.
Fighters ARE devastating in combat. It's what they do. Complaints about the fighter are centred around it's lack of versatility in other areas, something all other martials have. As you say, 4sr/level would go a long way to fix this.
Rogues can fulfil their role, but their main weakness is that other classes can do the same role and a lot more - bards, inquisitors, and rangers can all do the "scout" role and bring more to the table with it, including being more than situationally useful in combat. A few archetypes go some way to fixing this, but it's not really far enough. Rogues need some additional abilities or better talents to be really functional.
Monks...well they cannot fulfil their role, and other classes can.
Aside from lower DPR monks have everything lacking in other pure martial classes.
By "other martial classes" what you really meant was "fighters" didn't you, because looking at this list...
Cool spell-like abilities: Feather-fall, some self healing, teleport, Save or lose, Save or die, tongues, etherealness
Gimped abilities, easily trumped by barbarian's rage powers, or by paladin and ranger abilities and spells.
Out-of-combat abilities: High jump, 4+int skill points, good skill list, tongues
Barbarians get 4+int skill points, good skill list, and some neat abilities. Paladins get healing powers and spells. Rangers get great skills, cool abilities, animal companion, and spells.
Can counter most spells: Immunities, high saves, SR, Evasion
Paladins are hands down the best defensive class in the game, with better saves (except maybe reflex) than the monk and better immunities. Rangers get evasion, and barbarians get superstition. SR gimps the monk so badly that unless you are playing a solo game it's more trouble than it is worth to have it.
Lets face it, for any combat class it comes down to DPR at some point, and the monk not having DPR is his biggest problem. Other classes get the same level of defensive powers AND can deal DPR.
In my experience the monk is not underpowered. The only thing I would change is giving it the ability to temporarily increase attack rolls for fights against extremely high AC targets. That's pretty much it. You could accomplish that with the ki pool. If the designers say gave Monks the ability to boost their attack roll by +4 as a Swift Action for one round, they would fix the monk.
No they wouldn't. Hitting is only one problem the monk has, there is still MAD and the poor ability to get through DR without ramping up damage output. It's a lot more complex, but that fix would go a way toward resolving ONE of the monk's problems.
Slightly modified monk, I will likely playtest.
Monk
Full BAB, D8
Saves: good F, R, W
skills 4+ int
1st lvl Unarmed Strike does not improve, it stays at 1d6 damage. (modified)
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1st lvl Flurry of blows, delete this sentence: “For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.” (modified)
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4th Ki pool, the monk can make an extra attack at his highest attack bonus if he spends 1 ki point,
(this does not require him to flurry anymore so it can be activated after a move or charge). The monk an draw from his ki pool to use these actions once per round as a free action. (modified)
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4th lvl Ki strike, as a swift action a monk can deal +1 damage, +1 per 5 levels in any class that gives access to a ki pool for 1 round. It also gives the monk the ability to ignore DR/Magic whenever the monk uses Ki Strike. He can use this ability as long as he has at least 1 ki point left in his ki pool.
At 7th level the monk’s attacks also count as cold iron and silver while using ki strike.
At 10th level the monk’s attacks count as lawful when using arcane strike.
At 16th lvl the monk’s attacks are treated as adamantine for the purpose of ignoring DR and hardness, while using ki strike. (modified)*
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6th lvl Monastic Training, like fighter weapon training it stacks with weapon training and is for all effects and abilities the same as weapon training but it only improves the monk weapon group.
It increases by +1 every 6 levels after 6th, up to +3 at level 18. (added)
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13th lvl Diamond soul, the monk can spend a ki point as a free action to gain spell resistance equal to 11 + his class level this lasts till the beginning of the monk’s next turn.
The monk can also activate it as an immediate action ending at the end of the monk’s next turn in that case. (modified)
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Additionally:
5th wholeness of body, as is
7th purity of body, wholeness of body functions as remove disease.
11th diamond body, wholeness of body also acts as neutralize poison.
At the cost of two ki points the monk an use it on another.
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* Ki strike is also a feat in my campaign, though it doesnt get any of the DR penetration improvements besides magic usually.
Because Monk SR can't be dropped as a Free action, and you can't just say to the Monk "Hold up, let me buff you BEFORE you Rage".SR is bad more often than it's goodI love how monk SR is reviled as bad when barbar superstition is praised as the best thing ever that only noob spellcasters have trouble working around.
It also doesn't cost them a rage power and can be done more than once per combat.
But yeah. I really don't understand why SR doesn't work like it did in 3.5
<Stuff picking apart the monk based on a combination of 4 classes class features>
Do you not see the problem in that?
IMHO: when it comes to out of combat abilities monk trumps barbar and fighter. When it comes to defenses monk trumps barbar, fighter, and ranger. When it comes to lame RP restrictions monk trumps paladin.
Because Monk SR can't be dropped as a Free action, and you can't just say to the Monk "Hold up, let me buff you BEFORE you Rage".SR is bad more often than it's goodI love how monk SR is reviled as bad when barbar superstition is praised as the best thing ever that only noob spellcasters have trouble working around.It also doesn't cost them a rage power and can be done more than once per combat.
But yeah. I really don't understand why SR doesn't work like it did in 3.5
It actually does work like in 3.5
It actually does work like in 3.5Because Monk SR can't be dropped as a Free action, and you can't just say to the Monk "Hold up, let me buff you BEFORE you Rage".SR is bad more often than it's goodI love how monk SR is reviled as bad when barbar superstition is praised as the best thing ever that only noob spellcasters have trouble working around.It also doesn't cost them a rage power and can be done more than once per combat.
But yeah. I really don't understand why SR doesn't work like it did in 3.5
"Spell Resistance
Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature. The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. Include any adjustments to your caster level to this caster level check.
The Spell Resistance entry and the descriptive text of a spell description tell you whether spell resistance protects creatures from the spell. In many cases, spell resistance applies only when a resistant creature is targeted by the spell, not when a resistant creature encounters a spell that is already in place.
The terms “object” and “harmless” mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless. In such a case, you do not need to make the caster level check described above."
No in 3.5 you could just turn it off.
A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless.
Same thing as Pathfinder.
And you missed some text...
The SRD entry has this:
"A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creatureÂ’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity)."
So it's exactly like in Pathfinder.
The only thing different was this additional part in the "When it applies" section:
When in doubt about whether a spell’s effect is direct or indirect, consider the spell’s school:
Abjuration: The target creature must be harmed, changed, or restricted in some manner for spell resistance to apply. Perception changes aren’t subject to spell resistance.
Abjurations that block or negate attacks are not subject to an attacker’s spell resistance — it is the protected creature that is affected by the spell (becoming immune or resistant to the attack).
Conjuration: These spells are usually not subject to spell resistance unless the spell conjures some form of energy. Spells that summon creatures or produce effects that function like creatures are not subject to spell resistance.
Divination: These spells do not affect creatures directly and are not subject to spell resistance, even though what they reveal about a creature might be very damaging.
Enchantment: Since enchantment spells affect creatures’ minds, they are typically subject to spell resistance.
Evocation: If an evocation spell deals damage to the creature, it has a direct effect. If the spell damages something else, it has an indirect effect.
Illusion: These spells are almost never subject to spell resistance. Illusions that entail a direct attack are exceptions.
Necromancy: Most of these spells alter the target creature’s life force and are subject to spell resistance. Unusual necromancy spells that don’t affect other creatures directly are not subject to spell resistance.
Transmutation: These spells are subject to spell resistance if they transform the target creature. Transmutation spells are not subject to spell resistance if they are targeted on a point in space instead of on a creature. Some transmutations make objects harmful (or more harmful), such as magic stone. Even these spells are not generally subject to spell resistance because they affect the objects, not the creatures against which the objects are used. Spell resistance works against magic stone only if the creature with spell resistance is holding the stones when the cleric casts magic stone on them.
Though, that's just stating what is written in the spell description already, with the entry of SR: Yes or No.
And you missed some text...
The SRD entry has this:
"A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creatureÂ’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity)."
So it's exactly like in Pathfinder.
That is not in the spell resistance section
"The terms “object” and “harmless” mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless. In such a case, you do not need to make the caster level check described above."
As in you just turned it off in 3.5.
Which, again, you have to spend a Standard Action to do... EXACTLY THE SAME AS IN PATHFINDER.
Which, again, you have to spend a Standard Action to do... EXACTLY THE SAME AS IN PATHFINDER.
Except that it stays off instead of you having to maintain it every turn to keep it off.
Which, again, you have to spend a Standard Action to do... EXACTLY THE SAME AS IN PATHFINDER.Except that it stays off instead of you having to maintain it every turn to keep it off.
Not how I read it, it seems to me you have to spend a standard action to lower it for a single spell. Nowhere does it say it stays "off".
It doesn't matter regardless it both sucks in general..
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To address the initial question, I believe monk needs a from the ground up rewrite.
Eliminating the static KI/monk powers and making them selectable would be a good step. Call them Ki disciplines, similar to how rogues get talents and barbarians get rage powers.
Expand the Ki pool and make it more refillable, so that monk has a resource to manage.
Eliminate things that contradict like flurry and enhanced movement speed.
If this was done well the chassis could stay the same, i.e. 3/4 BAB, all good saves, unarmed strike/limited weapons, 4+skills.
Just my opinion.
If anyone is interested I could post something, feel free to respond in this thread.
Actually I'm quite happy with the monk (and have played the monk in campaigns). The changes they need are minor.
That is not in the spell resistance section
It is in the reference document I'm looking at. Are you checking the Special Abilities and Conditions page?
Or if you prefer the official website: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/AbilitiesandConditions.rtf
You are only looking at Spell Resistance in the Magic Overview, not the actual fully detailed entry in the Special Abilities and Conditions section.
Nothing in the magic overview contradicts the special abilities and conditions section, it tells you as much as you need to know from the perspective of the spell caster trying to affect the person with spell resistance.
However, from the perspective of someone who has spell resistance, they would want to check the full entry, which dictates exactly how it works in full.
It was just as much a hassle back in 3.5e as it is now. Pathfinder made no changes in this regard (they didn't make things worse).
I've said for a while now that the best fix to the Monk is to scrap it entirely and replace it with thematically similar classes that aren't pulled in so many directions at once (the current design of the Monk struggles because it shoves in too many uncomplimentary abilities at once. Because the Monk has to be a martial artist, but must also be a Mystic, and so on).
2/3 done. Well, mostly done. Still need a spell list for the Ascetic.
<Stuff picking apart the monk based on a combination of 4 classes class features>Do you not see the problem in that?
If I'd done that I would, instead I wrote "Stuff picking apart the monk based on ANY ONE OF 3 classes' class features" which I may not have made clear enough.
IMHO: when it comes to out of combat abilities monk trumps barbar and fighter. When it comes to defenses monk trumps barbar, fighter, and ranger. When it comes to lame RP restrictions monk trumps paladin.
I will agree the monk trumps the fighter for out of combat abilities, but EVERYONE trumps the fighter for that, it's the reason fighters are considered a "weak" class. Undecided on the barbarian, I'd put them about equal, given how less-than-useful some of the monk's abilities are. I'd say the barbarian is pretty close to the monk in defences too, superstition really bumps his save up when it matters. Plus the fighter, paladin, and barbarian (and even the archer-ranger) have the "offence is defence" mechanic in their favour - that is, you may have a greater vulnerability to something the enemy can do, but it doesn't matter if he has less time to do it in because you kill him faster. Once you factor that in, all of them bar the non-ranged ranger about equal the monk for defences. The ranger, though, has his animal companion, his spells, and his skills, making him way better out of combat. If the ranger does take the ranged option, he's got a distinct advantage over the un-ranged monk (assuming you are not playing a sohei or zen archer, of course), because being able to hurt the enemy when they can't hurt you is a very big advantage to anyone.
Looking at all the fields where we can compare them, assuming equal stats (which is giving the monk a lot of benefit of the doubt) and assuming the monk is a qingong monk (which is kind of the standard):
Offence, melee: Paladin, Fighter, and Barbarian top the rating roughly equally. Monk and ranger tie on average unless the ranger is fighting his favoured enemy, then it's win for the ranger.
Offence, ranged: Fighter, paladin, and ranger all do well. Barbarian has access to bows but can't really rage with them. The monk has no good ranged option unless he is a sohei or zen archer.
Toughness (AC & hit points): Fighter, paladin, barbarian in order top the field. Monk has excellent AC but poorer hit points, while the ranger has better hit points but worse AC.
Saves & Immunities: Paladin wins on this one, with the monk close behind. Barbarian is next, then ranger, then fighter.
Skills: Ranger wins here hands-down, then the barbarian and monk tie, with the paladin and fighter at the bottom.
Other Abilities: Paladin has healing and spells, ranger has spells and other abilities, monk has special abilities including great mobility, barbarian has few non-combat abilities, fighter has none.
Lack of Restrictions: Fighter and Ranger have no real restrictions. Barbarian has slight restrictions (non-lawful), monk has some restrictions (lawful), Paladin a lot (LG, code, etc.)
Whichever way you score it, the monk doesn't really do well in the comparison.
You know assuming equal stats is dumb. Paladins favor cha over con. Monks need wis and fighter stats. Rangers need Wis and either archer or switch-hitter stats
Monks throw shuriken for range. Not the best thing ever, but it is a range flurry that does strength damage.
Shuriken are bad ranged weapons because of close range (10ft, for a max of 50ft), that will add a bunch penalties ( and the monk can't really afford those).
When you add low attack bonus, a -4 penalty for range (hitting someone at 30ft, not that great), and eventually a -4 for hitting someone in melee, and +4 to the target AC from cover, you will just not hit your target.
The shuriken itself does much lower damage than unarmed, and won't bypass RD unless enchanted. So even if you DO hit, you won't damage it much.
Since others have posted their house rules for the monk, here're (most) of mine. Some house rules I've created are only relevant in the context of other house rules, such as Diamond Body and Spell Resistance in general, so they are not listed here.
**Ability Name** indicates a new class feature I've added (taken from several sources, including other games as well as posters on these boards)
This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every four levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level.
If an effect or ability allows a monk to use Flurry of Blows when he otherwise could not (while wearing armor, using a “non-monk” weapon, etc.), he may apply this bonus is such situations.
At 8th 6th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th 11th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack. In addition, he can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round immediately move up to 20 feet (this movement does not count toward the monk's normal movement for the round, but provokes attacks of opportunity as normal). Finally, a monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels.
The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
I realize that the change to FoB means the monk loses one attack while using it (but was that attack ever going to hit more than 5% of the time?), as well as affecting Power Attack, but I feel it's worth it to give the monk higher to hit while not Flurrying.
I also realize these changes may affect archetypes, but that's a rather simple matter to fix.
I like your changes overall, and will be stealing the Slowfall and Wholeness of Body stuff for my list of monk change ideas. :)
You know assuming equal stats is dumb. Paladins favor cha over con. Monks need wis and fighter stats. Rangers need Wis and either archer or switch-hitter stats
And the monk has the highest demands of all, which is why "assuming equal stats" was giving the MONK an unfair advantage (and he still came last). But look at why other classes drop stats: the paladin drops Con because he doesn't need it as badly. His lay on hands means he can replace lost hit points mid-fight, and his divine grace boosts all his saves. A barbarian with superstition doesn't need any mental stats, so his physical ones look better. A fighter only wants a bit of Wis to bump his weakest save. A TWF ranger can actually dump Dex, an archer ranger can dump Con because little will get close enough to threaten him.
Monks throw shuriken for range. Not the best thing ever, but it is a range flurry that does strength damage.
If an enemy is close enough to throw shuriken at, you can just run up and punch him. What does the monk use against the flying creature wheeling 100' above the party for another pass? He might have a crossbow he can get one shot with, while the other combat classes (including the magus, bard, inquisitor) break out their +strength composite longbows and full-attack...
Since others have posted their house rules for the monk, here're (most) of mine. Some house rules I've created are only relevant in the context of other house rules, such as Diamond Body and Spell Resistance in general, so they are not listed here.
Looks a bit like the Mystic Monk I did a while back. I'm currently testing a much more modest set of "tweaks" that make the monk as is more playable.
@ Honorable Goblin - I like some of your changes very much and some of them not so much. I still think Slow Fall is too weak in comparison to Feather Fall but it's still at least twice as good if not better than what we have now.
The FoB thing seems a bit forced I think the net effect you got was actually a weaker FoB and a stronger non FoB attack but frankly the monk just needs a flat booster on to hit. Have you considered just elevating the Monk to Full BAB in general and then of course removing Maneuver training entirely? I'd have to play around with it to see if the mini pounce effects make up for the losses on FoB but I suspect given the overall stagnant accuracy that you'd have just as much trouble with the flurry of misses issue.
Well, the bonus to attack rolls from "Centered Bonus" applies to all attacks, not just FoB, which gives the monk a "fake" Full BaB; the last line in CB is just to allow say, a Sohei Monk, to gain the benefit in armor or while using a "non-monk" weapon in one of his Weapon Training groups.
I should also note that in my house rules, monks also have easier access to weapon enhancement bonuses because I nixed the "Big Six" in favor of a modified version of this system.
Looks a bit like the Mystic Monk I did a while back. I'm currently testing a much more modest set of "tweaks" that make the monk as is more playable.
At a glance, your Mystic Monk looks pretty cool, I'll have to take a closer look later on today.
I did take inspiration for some of my changes from your thread (notably, WIS to attack rolls and spend a ki point to actually move).