Is it possible to make Mithral Celestial Armour?


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I was studying the srd about celestial armour as it looked really nice for an eldritch knight build I'm putting together as an intellectual exercise (goes under clothing, silky soft, low spell failure etc). I was assuming since it was a specific armour it couldn't be modified but then I saw ...

1) The section at the start of the section on magical armour in the srd says there's a % chance when something is found that its standard and a much smaller one that its of a special material.

2) There's also apparently a celestial full plate according to the SRD so it looks like a property that can apply to different armour types (although since the plate can't be worn under clothes discreetly). The ful plate us also described as bright silver where the chain is silver and gold.

I did a google search but some people day yes/some say no and I couldn't find anything on the forums. So I'm wondering was there ever any kind of official ruling/indication/hint as to whether you could have celestial armour made out of special materials e.g mithral celestial chain, adamantium celestial plate, darkwood celestial breastplate?


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Any custom magical item is up to your GM. With that said, I don't see any reason to disallow it. But I'm probably not your GM.


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Buckle your seat belts, ladies and gentlemen, the ride is about to begin... :)


How is "your GM can do anything he wants" a ride?


No, the ride is about to begin, I said. Once all the people that have posted various strongly held opinions in the many other threads see this one, it's off to the races. My guess is two strong camps and 100+ posts by tomorrow evening. ;)


I'm betting Malachi Silverclaw will participate if he notices.


No way.
Part of Celestial Armor is the "bright silver or gold" material that it is made out of. Trying to make it out of mithril would basically be replacing its normal special light-weight properties with those of mithril instead.


Ah, but unfortunately, the part about it being made of silver, gold, or a silver/gold-colored material was removed.


so nothing official just peoples opinions and DM ruling thanks.


The best advice I can give (well, it works best for me anyway) is to treat "celestial" as the material. Basically, these armors are made out of " "celestial" metal from the celestial plane.

This would mean that the metal cannot be replaced by other stuff. It would also explain why it has properties that cannot be duplicated or applied to other armors that a are not celestial. And it stops all the player shenanigans about crafting special armors with special materials, as well as all the GM shenanigans about trying to figure out how to calculate prices of the individual special properties of "celestial" armor.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Liam Warner wrote:
so nothing official just peoples opinions and DM ruling thanks.

You're going to find outside of PFS that ninety percent of this game is peoples opinions and DM ruling. If that's uncomfortable to you, stick to board games and chess.


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LazarX wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
so nothing official just peoples opinions and DM ruling thanks.
You're going to find outside of PFS that ninety percent of this game is peoples opinions and DM ruling. If that's uncomfortable to you, stick to board games and chess.

Nah, not chess. It's full of opinions.

For example, the current world champion, Magnus Carlsen, firmly believes in playing 5. d3 in the main line of the Ruy Lopez. However, Garry Kasparov, arguably the best player ever, prefers to play 5. 0-0 instead. Neither of them is right or wrong - it comes down to play style and opinion.

No, if you want a game where opinions are irrelevant, chess is not a great choice. I prefer badminton for my opinion-less game. But, of course, that preference is just my opinion...


The issue has come up before, and it tends to be a fairly . . . divided topic.

Suffice to say that in my opinion the only valid answer is, "Ask your GM." While I tend to stray toward the "it's not already made of mithral" camp myself, I also don't believe that it's abundantly clear one way or the other by pure RAW.


Well, another question is whether or not the increase to mobility is a property of the item's magic, or a quality of the unnamed special material it's made out of. That's important not just for determining if it's eligible to become mithral, but what happens to it within an anti-magic field.


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LazarX wrote:


You're going to find outside of PFS that ninety percent of this game is peoples opinions and DM ruling. If that's uncomfortable to you, stick to board games and chess.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Rhatahema wrote:
Well, another question is whether or not the increase to mobility is a property of the item's magic, or a quality of the unnamed special material it's made out of. That's important not just for determining if it's eligible to become mithral, but what happens to it within an anti-magic field.

This is a good question. I wonder if posing the question "what, if any, parts of the celestial armor description function inside an antimagic field?" to the devs would help us get to the bottom of this mithril celestial question.


Why does it need to be a question? It's not like the Pathfinder PD will arrive at your table and take the GM away in handcuffs if she permits, or for that matter, disallows, a custom suit of armor?

Look at this from a meta-level. Which interpretation would make for a better game, and why? (This answer will probably vary from table to table, which is fine.) Whichever way makes the game more fun, use that.


This is a topic that's been discussed time and again. Pretty sure it was discussed somewhere that 'named' items weren't meant to be modified and were intended to be unique items that are balanced.

The reason this could create problems with the Mithral/celestial armors is in the reduction in armor types. Celestial armor is considered light armor. Making it out of Mithral now treats it as no armor at all but requires light armor proficiency. Now a monk could take light armor proficiency and wear Mithral celestial armor while enjoying everything about being a monk which is also a cheaper and better alternative to getting bracers AC 8. The Sohei gets every benefit of his class and archetype instead of having to make a choice of armored or not.

Stats for Mithral celestial armor are AC 9, max dex 10, armor check 0, arcane failure 5%(0% because it's treated as no armor)

With the celestial plate armor made of Mithral it's now considered a light armor, but requires medium proficiency. This suit allows for class abilities like evasion and improved evasion or anything else restricted to light armor.

Stats for Mithral celestial plate armor are AC 12, max dex of 8, armor check of 0, arcane failure of 10%.

These two suits of armor would be the only pieces of armor sought after by adventurers as they are now the best options and open up a lot of added viability. Although I'm all for Mithral options of celestial armors just realize it is a very potent adjustment.

Other than the points above fighters are also trivialized somewhat by this option. A fighter with armor training could improve these armors close to this level or even a suit of Mithral full plate to max dex 7, armor check 0. These armors make armor training useless.


Khrysaor wrote:
The reason this could create problems with the Mithral/celestial armors is in the reduction in armor types. Celestial armor is considered light armor. Making it out of Mithral now treats it as no armor at all but requires light armor proficiency. Now a monk could take light armor proficiency and wear Mithral celestial armor while enjoying everything about being a monk which is also a cheaper and better alternative to getting bracers AC 8. The Sohei gets every benefit of his class and archetype instead of having to make a choice of armored or not.

No... No they are not...

" Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light."
Straight out of the CRB.

Also I feel like I remember a this coming up in Ultimate Campaign with a dagger of venom being made as a rapier of venom, saying all you need to do is adjust the price.


In my games, I've ruled that Celestial is actually enriched mithril - a very rare kind of mithril that requires it's own process to produce and the method was lost thousands of years ago.


Ok, so I was off. Only 20 posts by day two. :)

And to put my two cents in, I fall into the "No Mithral" camp. I was originally in the other camp, even made a mithral version for an NPC I created, which was when I first realized that adding the mithral property made it far too powerful. Now, if we could just get a ruling from the Devs on what properties function in an antimagic field, I'd be happy to let the matter rest. :D

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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RAW, you can add mithral to and make any armor out of the metal that is not made out of it.

Celestial Armors are not expressly made out of the metals.

So, yes, you can Make Celestial Armors out of Mithral, and add the benefits to them. Note that the 'lighter armor' language isn't going to make Celestial Full Plate function like light armor, because mithral only alters the original heavy armor, and Celestial armor is already one type lower, so you get a non-stacking identical benefit.

What do I BELIEVE? I believe that Celestial Armor was meant to be mithral armor with an additional 2 pt Dex modifier, hence the 'celestial' moniker. It was put into effect badly and is now the most imbalanced armor in the game.

Mithral armor already granted 90% of the benefits of Armor Mastery (* for non-dwarves, who get 100% already), and Celestial Armor just puts a nail in the coffin. Celestial Full Plate requires a 22 dex to EXCEED its power, and a fighter on standard point buy isn't likely to get that until 17+ unless playing a finesse build. As long as any other class can get the same dex, fighters have NO ADVANTAGE with Armor Training or Mastery with Celestial Armors around.

==Aelryinth


It's the anti magic thing that's my main concern as there's a huge difference between losing the ability to fly in an anti magic zone and suddenly being wearing armour that does nothing. Particularly since I was doing this eldritch knight as prep for running a wire campaing and there is celestial armour as a written reward. So if it can't be made of mithril does it stop offering protection in an anti magic zone, does it offer the same prtection as masterwork chain but get a higher spell failure?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

It would simply be masterwork chain in an A-M shell.

If it was mithral, it would have a lesser spell failure chance.

==Aelryinth

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Owen KC Stephens of Super Genius/Rogue Genius Games wrote up rules in Green Robin 's 3rd Eva (read d20) Advanced Gamemaster's Guide for two types of Celestrum to allow you to make your own celestial armors. It covers both regular Celestial (silver Celestrum) and the version from the 3e Epic Level Handbook (gold Celestrum).

There are also several other new higher powered special materials ("sovereign materials") in there too.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

... the arcane spell failure chance matters... in an anti-magic field?

*shakes head at the endless attempts to circumvent any restrictions on armor*


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Majuba wrote:

... the arcane spell failure chance matters... in an anti-magic field?

*shakes head at the endless attempts to circumvent any restrictions on armor*

This matters.


See above for the always an exception other examples are the higher level prismatic spells. (As stated in the spells description) and there's a mythic ability that let's you choose a number of spells that remain unaffected if your using those rules. If it becomes regular masterwork chain in an anti magic field the as per the rules it can be made from mithril. If its made from green ronins celestrim it becomes celestrim but doesn't let you fly and actuallybecomes weaker if you try to make it out mithril. If its not even proper chain but just light gold/silver links that have been magically enhance it won't even provide an AC bonus in an anti magic field. It does matter what its made if and what properties it retains in an anti magic field.


Ok from the core players rule book . . .

Weapons and armor can be crafted using materials that
possess innate special properties. If you make a suit of
armor or weapon out of more than one special material,
you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material.
However, you can build a double weapon with each head
made of a different special material.

Adamantium and Mithril are both listed as special materials and so far as I can tell "celestial steel" isn't mentioned anywhere (and ye gods I'm avoiding those green ronin sovereign materials they're just overpowered). Anyway the armours that are made of these materials state it e.g. Adamantium breastplate and mithril/elven chain. Whereas the celestial chain states its made out of silver and gold.

Therefore I have to rule that celestial chain can in fact be made out of mithril as per the rules and hope my players never think of it.

Howeever if they do the cost is possibly not going to be unreasonable consider . . .

Celestial Armour
Material gold or silver
Weight 20lbs
+3 enchantment
Dex bonus 8
armour check -2
arcane spell failure 15%
considered light armour
allows fly 1/day

Mithril
Considered 1 category lighter minimum light
Decrease spell failure by 10%
Dex bonus +2
Armour check -3 (MINIMUM 0)
half weight of normal materials.

If we combine the two we get

Mithril Celestial Armour
Material Mithril
Weight 10lbs
+3 enchantment
Dex Bonus +10 (have to be a heavy dex build for this extra 2 to matter)
Armour Check 0
Arcane Spell Failure 5%
considered light armour
Fly 1/day

which isn't that bad a change really when I look at it you still have a spell failure chance, you need a heavy dex based build to benefit from the +2 and a slight armour check improvement nothing else really changes. Of course this is its normal enchanted state if it gets suppressed by an anti-magic field we get a signifiant improvement.

Standard Chain mail is
+6 armour bonus
+2 dex bonus
-5 armour check penalty (much higher than celestial)
30% spell failure
Medium Armour
40lbs

Now if our celestial armour is made out of mithril these stats change to . . .

Mithril Chain mail
+6 armour bonus
+4 dex bonus
-2 armour check penalty (Same as the base celestial)
20% spell failure
Light Armour
20lbs

Still a very good armour

If on the other hand we assume its made out of gold (no stats for silver as modifying armour only weapons)

Gold
Items weigh 50% more
armour bonus decrease by 2
armour check penalty incrases by 2

giving us

Gold Chain Mail
+4 armour bonus
+4 dex bonus
-7 armour check penalty (much higher than celestial)
30% spell failure
Medium Armour
60lbs

So I'll apply the rules since mithril celestial chain mail when I break it down doesn't seem that much more powerful than regular celestial chainmail unless your in an anti-magic zone where having it made out of mithril rather than gold (or silver) is a big bonus.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Liam Warner wrote:
Therefore I have to rule that celestial chain can in fact be made out of mithril as per the rules and hope my players never think of it.

You don't "have to rule" anything at all. It's your game, and you're allowed to use your brain when deciding things.

For PFS, you can't make specific items out of different materials, so this is moot for that.


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Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items" wrote:
Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom’s price of 8,302 gp.

It is within the rules to have a specific item altered to be in a different form, according to Ultimate Campaign.

same page wrote:
or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield.

This particular line here is a specific example of a Specific Magic Item being made from a different material.

Short answer: Yes, you can have Celestial Armor crafted from Mithral, unless your DM decides that Ultimate Campaign doesn't exist.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

RAW, you can add mithral to and make any armor out of the metal that is not made out of it.

Celestial Armors are not expressly made out of the metals.

So, yes, you can Make Celestial Armors out of Mithral, and add the benefits to them. Note that the 'lighter armor' language isn't going to make Celestial Full Plate function like light armor, because mithral only alters the original heavy armor, and Celestial armor is already one type lower, so you get a non-stacking identical benefit.

What do I BELIEVE? I believe that Celestial Armor was meant to be mithral armor with an additional 2 pt Dex modifier, hence the 'celestial' moniker. It was put into effect badly and is now the most imbalanced armor in the game.

Mithral armor already granted 90% of the benefits of Armor Mastery (* for non-dwarves, who get 100% already), and Celestial Armor just puts a nail in the coffin. Celestial Full Plate requires a 22 dex to EXCEED its power, and a fighter on standard point buy isn't likely to get that until 17+ unless playing a finesse build. As long as any other class can get the same dex, fighters have NO ADVANTAGE with Armor Training or Mastery with Celestial Armors around.

==Aelryinth

That's far from the case. Celestial Armor is not made of mithril, nor gold or silver, but something even finer, yet more protective than mithril. It used to be described as a silver/gold colored metal from the upper planes. It's still described as a unique armor type, not something built from any metal you please. This also means that upgrading it's enhancement value is strictly a topic for GM homebrew territory.

The major problem with celestial armor is that it's priced and formulated as something that can be created by normal characters when it really should be classified as a minor artifact.

Scarab Sages

Liam Warner wrote:


If we combine the two we get

Mithril Celestial Armour
Material Mithril
Weight 10lbs
+3 enchantment
Dex Bonus +10 (have to be a heavy dex build for this extra 2 to matter)
Armour Check 0
Arcane Spell Failure 5%
considered light armour
Fly 1/day

which isn't that bad a change really

Armor check penalty of 0 with almost no spell failure?

My wizard would love that...

Proficiency not needed.
No penalties to "to hit" rolls or skill checks.
No penalty to movement
Only 1 in 20 spell failure.
+9 to my AC - which would cost 64k for just bracers +8
more than a deal for 25k...plus a built in fly.
Chaimail would normally weigh 40 lbs...which is now only 10# !?!
Really helps with the low strength....
Add a mithril buckler...that's insane.

This would be a requirement for every caster.

just my opinion.

If the weight aspect doesn't clue you in that you're applying a lesser material to a greater one, I don't know what will.


Cascade wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:


If we combine the two we get

Mithril Celestial Armour
Material Mithril
Weight 10lbs
+3 enchantment
Dex Bonus +10 (have to be a heavy dex build for this extra 2 to matter)
Armour Check 0
Arcane Spell Failure 5%
considered light armour
Fly 1/day

which isn't that bad a change really

Armor check penalty of 0 with almost no spell failure?

My wizard would love that...

Proficiency not needed.
No penalties to "to hit" rolls or skill checks.
No penalty to movement
Only 1 in 20 spell failure.
+9 to my AC - which would cost 64k for just bracers +8
more than a deal for 25k...plus a built in fly.
Chaimail would normally weigh 40 lbs...which is now only 10# !?!
Really helps with the low strength....
Add a mithril buckler...that's insane.

This would be a requirement for every caster.

just my opinion.

If the weight aspect doesn't clue you in that you're applying a lesser material to a greater one, I don't know what will.

I was always under the impression that it was lighter because of the celestial magic enchantment, not because of the material. The rules have been updated to allow for this, and depending on what sources your DM allows the best armor in the game is Celestial Plate Mail crafted from Mithral.

+12 AC, max DEX +8 and an ACP of -1 I believe.


Technically speaking, specific magic items are just that- specific. No matter what they may or may not be constructed out of, their stats are fixed. Celestial Armor is vague about what it IS made of, but if it's already mithral, the enchantments add less than they do if it's steel.

Assuming it's steel, it's entirely possible that mithral Celestial Armor is impossible - the enchantments may not even work on anything but the specific mix of steel, gold, or whatever. The enchantments that create a Frost Brand may not work on anything but a greatsword.

It's always a GM call, of course, but I'd lean against allowing players to customize specific magic items on their own.


Bizbag wrote:

Technically speaking, specific magic items are just that- specific. No matter what they may or may not be constructed out of, their stats are fixed. Celestial Armor is vague about what it IS made of, but if it's already mithral, the enchantments add less than they do if it's steel.

Assuming it's steel, it's entirely possible that mithral Celestial Armor is impossible - the enchantments may not even work on anything but the specific mix of steel, gold, or whatever. The enchantments that create a Frost Brand may not work on anything but a greatsword.

It's always a GM call, of course, but I'd lean against allowing players to customize specific magic items on their own.

master_marshmallow wrote:
Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items" wrote:
Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom’s price of 8,302 gp.

It is within the rules to have a specific item altered to be in a different form, according to Ultimate Campaign.

same page wrote:
or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield.

This particular line here is a specific example of a Specific Magic Item being made from a different material.

Short answer: Yes, you can have Celestial Armor crafted from Mithral, unless your DM decides that Ultimate Campaign doesn't exist.


master_marshmallow wrote:
Bizbag wrote:

Technically speaking, specific magic items are just that- specific. No matter what they may or may not be constructed out of, their stats are fixed. Celestial Armor is vague about what it IS made of, but if it's already mithral, the enchantments add less than they do if it's steel.

Assuming it's steel, it's entirely possible that mithral Celestial Armor is impossible - the enchantments may not even work on anything but the specific mix of steel, gold, or whatever. The enchantments that create a Frost Brand may not work on anything but a greatsword.

It's always a GM call, of course, but I'd lean against allowing players to customize specific magic items on their own.

master_marshmallow wrote:
Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items" wrote:
Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom’s price of 8,302 gp.

It is within the rules to have a specific item altered to be in a different form, according to Ultimate Campaign.

same page wrote:
or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield.

This particular line here is a specific example of a Specific Magic Item being made from a different material.

Short answer: Yes, you can have Celestial Armor crafted from Mithral, unless your DM decides that Ultimate Campaign doesn't exist.

Perhaps, but:

Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items" wrote:

If you want to create an entirely new type of item (such as a ring that allows you to cast acid arrow three times per day) or add properties to an existing item (such as adding the flaming property to a holy avenger),

the process is more complex and requires discussion and cooperation between you and the GM.

So modifying a specific magic item is, guess what, something you need GM approval for!


Bizbag wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
Bizbag wrote:

Technically speaking, specific magic items are just that- specific. No matter what they may or may not be constructed out of, their stats are fixed. Celestial Armor is vague about what it IS made of, but if it's already mithral, the enchantments add less than they do if it's steel.

Assuming it's steel, it's entirely possible that mithral Celestial Armor is impossible - the enchantments may not even work on anything but the specific mix of steel, gold, or whatever. The enchantments that create a Frost Brand may not work on anything but a greatsword.

It's always a GM call, of course, but I'd lean against allowing players to customize specific magic items on their own.

master_marshmallow wrote:
Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items" wrote:
Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom’s price of 8,302 gp.

It is within the rules to have a specific item altered to be in a different form, according to Ultimate Campaign.

same page wrote:
or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield.

This particular line here is a specific example of a Specific Magic Item being made from a different material.

Short answer: Yes, you can have Celestial Armor crafted from Mithral, unless your DM decides that Ultimate Campaign doesn't exist.

Perhaps, but:

Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items" wrote:
If you want to create an entirely new type of item (such as a ring that allows you to cast acid arrow three times per day) or add properties to an existing item (such as adding the flaming property to a
...

Literally everything in the game is something you need GM approval for, but this isn't a completely new type of item, hence the next paragraph that says:

same freaking quote as before wrote:
Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom’s price of 8,302 gp.

And for such items there are already rules et in place and guidelines for doing it right there in the book, right down to the pricing issue that you may have.

If you have a problem with it existing, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that the devs have made the rules to facilitate this exact scenario.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quote:


This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail
Quote:


Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard.
Quote:


If you make a suit of armor or weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material.

I don't know what celestial armor is made of. It could be mithral, in the case of silver celestial armor, but isn't for gold armor, unless it's electroplated or something. My conclusion is that celestial armor is already made of a special material of some kind, and might already be mithral; whatever the gold stuff is, it's probably not worse than mithral. So, I would say no at my table.

Liberty's Edge

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Since we do not know what the precise material of the celestial armor actually is (ie, there is no non-magical version of celestial armor), we cannot know how much it would cost to replace it with Mithral.

Thus we cannot price a celestial armor made of Mithral. So, such a thing might as well not exist ;-)


It say's silver or gold not a silver or gold coloured metal and while there are no stats for modifying armour to make it out of silver there are ones for gold (I posted them). If they had kept the text saying its made of a silver or gold coloured metal mined from the celestial planes that would be different but they don't. Further the celestial full plate IS only referred to as being silver not gold.

@Cascade true the armour check penalty is zero so it doesn't matter if you apply it from having no profeciency but is there really that big a difference between 0 and 2? Both scale mail and a breast plate only apply a check of 1 and a mithril chain shirt applies 0 as well. 1 in 20 if you aren't in an anti-magic zone (there are abilites that allow casting there). I'm not sure of your wizards stats but you'd be getting +9 with the standard celestial as well I'm pretty sure. You can get full plate +9 to AC for just 1,500 as well. Different items cost differently for what they provide. As for the weight its magically enchanted armour mithril halves the weight, there are enchantments that reduce weight.

It would be a lot easier if the dev's had just left the bit about it being a different metal or gave us a rulling on what effects suppressing its enchnantment had but they haven't so I'm going by the rules here.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm sure a lot of things could be easier, but celestial armor was a legacy from 3.5 and there probably wasn't a high priority to figure out what the heck it was made from.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CWheezy wrote:
LazarX wrote:


You're going to find outside of PFS that ninety percent of this game is peoples opinions and DM ruling. If that's uncomfortable to you, stick to board games and chess.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Mark Twain.

The black raven wrote:

Since we do not know what the precise material of the celestial armor actually is (ie, there is no non-magical version of celestial armor), we cannot know how much it would cost to replace it with Mithral.

Thus we cannot price a celestial armor made of Mithral. So, such a thing might as well not exist ;-)

Why not? Mithral adds +1,000gp to light armor. Easy and done.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The black raven wrote:

Since we do not know what the precise material of the celestial armor actually is (ie, there is no non-magical version of celestial armor), we cannot know how much it would cost to replace it with Mithral.

Thus we cannot price a celestial armor made of Mithral. So, such a thing might as well not exist ;-)

It's very likely that mithral would be an inferior material than what it's made of anyway.

Silver Crusade

Or 4,000gp if one decides it's still chainmail, therefore it's base stats are from a medium armor. It takes a very focused Dex build to take advantage of that extra +2 max dex bonus.

I'm fine with allowing it to be made out of mithral, most of my table would only want that to get rid of the armor check penalty *shrug*

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Since there's no naming of the metal itself in Celestial Mail, the metal itself has no special benefits.

Silver and gold do not describe what it's made of. Neither is suitable as metal, and gold would actually detract from it.

Mithral is like a template. You apply it to something to get an effect. Unless something already has a definite, existing template, you can add it on.

Celestial Mail does not have a template.

Or does it? Does the price of celestial armor reflect the fact it might already be made of mithral? I've honestly never checked.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
LazarX wrote:


You're going to find outside of PFS that ninety percent of this game is peoples opinions and DM ruling. If that's uncomfortable to you, stick to board games and chess.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Mark Twain.

The black raven wrote:

Since we do not know what the precise material of the celestial armor actually is (ie, there is no non-magical version of celestial armor), we cannot know how much it would cost to replace it with Mithral.

Thus we cannot price a celestial armor made of Mithral. So, such a thing might as well not exist ;-)

Why not? Mithral adds +1,000gp to light armor. Easy and done.

And wrong. the material in celestial armor is lighter, yet more defensive than mithral armor. A mithral version of celestial armor would be INFERIOR to the standard item.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
And wrong. the material in celestial armor is lighter, yet more defensive than mithral armor. A mithral version of celestial armor would be INFERIOR to the standard item.

Absolutely nothing in the item's description indicates it is the material that makes it lighter.

It could well be the magical enchantment that's having that effect.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Exactly. If it named something that was providing a template, you'd have an argument.

All we know is that it's a magical suit of mail that has x properties. Since it's not made of mithral, all those properties go away if the magic is suppressed.

I,e. unlike mithral, Celestial Mail would revert completely to a normal suit of chain mail in an A-M shell, losing all the dex mod, and being treated as medium armor. It'd still be half weight, because that's a stat, but other then that, everything gained from magic would be lost.

==Aelryinth


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not even certain it would stay at half weight in an antimagic field.

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