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I've been tossing around the idea of making a monk with a few vows, one of which will be the Vow of Poverty-partly for RP reasons but partly because I just want to see if I can do it.
I'd like some opinions on what my one magical item will be. Of course, in a home game you could combine the bonuses of several items into one but in PFS we're stuck with what's in the book. So do you go straight for the amulet of mighty fists? Or do you worry more about staying alive and try to get your AC up with bracers of armor or a ring of protection? Or do you instead focus on being physically superior with a belt of physical perfection? Any other spectacular monk items I haven't considered yet?
(If it helps at all my monk will be unarmed and using Mantis Style, with Quinggong archetype for access to barkskin and a couple other things.)
Thanks!
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I did not take a Vow of Poverty on my monk, but if I had, I would have either gone for:
Despite the Braid being sub-optimal, I like having a character so tied into one of my favorite scenario arcs. One day, perhaps, when he reaches 12, he'll actually play through the Ruby Phoenix Tournament while wearing the Braid.
In the absence of a boon item, I'd say either Amulet of Mighty Fists, since you can pump all of your money into it and afford a good one, or Monk's Robes.
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Hello Mike,
If I understood from general sense and previous topics about Vow's, they are a bit hard to combine with PFS characters. A strict reading from the text suggests that you can't really buy much magical items, if at all barely one which is usually "heirloom of great personal significance to the monk". Vow's also present trouble to other players at table as they might prevent you from talking/taking social actions and such so I would suggest to give a good thinking before trying to take one.
Adam
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PFS can make maintaining Vows difficult. I have two on my monk. A Vow of Cleanliness, because he was a slave to the Dark Naga, and he will never let the dirt stain him again. A Vow of Truth, because he believes nothing can truly be accomplished with lies. For the first vow, he carried around a week worth of robes, so he could always have some clean. He threw out several after trips into the sewers and other locations. Now he has a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard so he can cast prestidigitation on himself.
The Vow of Truth has been more challenging, especially since I placed him in Andoran, as it was Andoran Pathfinders who freed him. I avoid playing him in scenarios that will obviously involve subterfuge, and in situations where he's been sent to kill/capture/whatever someone, he tells them to their face.
The point being, it's challenging to maintain Vows in PFS, but that also makes it fun. If it ever comes down to breaking a Vow or endangering the mission/fellow Pathfinders, he'll do what he has to to make sure the group is safe and meditate on it (atone) later.
Mike sounds like he wants to try this because of the challenge as well, though I'll admit, a Vow of Poverty might be significantly more of a challenge.
Mike sounds like he wants to try this because of the challenge as well, though I'll admit, a Vow of Poverty might be significantly more of a challenge.
Not so much of a personal roleplaying challenge as a mechanical penalty that's decided by the dice god's whim. I think being able to play a truly modest adventurer without magic items would be awesome, but pathfinder has expectations on what bonuses you have at certain level and monks in particular suffer a lot without magic items. Vow of Poverty is pretty nasty and doesn't give much in return really.
My first pick would be an ancestoral sword. Probably not as applicable for an unarmed monk though.
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@Ferious Thune
Your cases seem quite right and like you said, quite challenging, but some Vow's might be above that limit in PFS. A monk with with Vow of Poverty clearly can't buy much, but Vow's of Truth might be more easier to solve since they affect only social encounters.
In either case PFS alone has some standards for Pathfinders. Not everyone is meant to be one.
Mist mail
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At least the vow of poverty isn't what it was back in 3.5. Any of you ever seen what it did before? "Oh no, I can't have magic items!" ... Meanwhile, it gives you far more benefits than any magical items ever would have; and it does so at far greater speed!
Now the Pathfinder version is probably going to be extremely challenging, and I'm tempted to say you might get more mileage out of the monk's robe than an amulet of mighty fists. This is of course assuming you aren't making a striker. Buuuuuttt the belt of physical perfection kind of wins out of everything. It offers the benefits of raising two saves, your initiative, your to-hit (and damage), your hit points, your armor class and several important skills.
Drunken monk archetype with Tankard of the hero?
At least the vow of poverty isn't what it was back in 3.5. Any of you ever seen what it did before? "Oh no, I can't have magic items!" ... Meanwhile, it gives you far more benefits than any magical items ever would have; and it does so at far greater speed!
If I remember correctly the 3.5 version came out below WBL and slower and with less benefits(Edit: Google gave the answer!) Only gaining +3 resistance bonus, +3 deflection, didn't get +6 to every score, etc(plus you miss all the not so treadmill bonuses). Unfortunately the pathfinder version doesn't do anything to keep you up with the magic item treadmill, and monk's might actually need those magic items the most.
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I'm pretty sure your one item is supposed to be a Large Block of Gold, melted down and reformed into a slightly Larger Block of Gold every time more gold is acquired, and at some point you trade it in for either a Rod of Wonder or that giant mechanical crab thing.
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I think being able to play a truly modest adventurer without magic items would be awesome, but pathfinder has expectations on what bonuses you have at certain level and monks in particular suffer a lot without magic items. Vow of Poverty is pretty nasty and doesn't give much in return really.
My first pick would be an ancestoral sword. Probably not as applicable for an unarmed monk though.
Yeah, that's mostly what I was going for. I usually play the characters who carry around lots of potions, scrolls, etc, for every situation so I wanted to do a complete 180 and create a character who has next to nothing. Obviously a magical weapon would make things a lot easier but I'm a sucker for the classic unarmed monk trope. I realize Vow of Poverty isn't that great but at least it gives something rather than just RPing the Vow and getting nothing in return.
Buuuuuttt the belt of physical perfection kind of wins out of everything. It offers the benefits of raising two saves, your initiative, your to-hit (and damage), your hit points, your armor class and several important skills.
This is kinda what I'm leaning towards. An amulet of mighty fists is nice in the punching department but nothing beats the all-around goodness of a plain ol' stat belt.
We'll see how long this character can make it. I'm kinda holding out building it until I can get 1. an oread boon (perfect Str/Wis boosts for a monk-also an oread monk is just cool) and 2. complete a certain four-part arc to give said oread an additional boost before he starts.
p.s. I think I'll also take the Vow of Silence and Vow of Truth, which are easy to do together. Vow of Silence also gives me an excuse to completely drop Cha, as I'm usually someone with NSAD (Negative Stat Avoidance Disorder).
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Beard: Yeah, I can see how it would present definite role play challenges. One could probably play it up for humor for a while, but it's most effective in a steady group. That way, everyone can just agree to take sign language. That's hard to do in PFS.
What situations gave you the most trouble?
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Beard: Yeah, I can see how it would present definite role play challenges. One could probably play it up for humor for a while, but it's most effective in a steady group. That way, everyone can just agree to take sign language. That's hard to do in PFS.
What situations gave you the most trouble?
I had a kitsune alchemist named Wile E. Coyote who spoke only through holding up (whiteboard) signs (that mostly said 'OUCH!' or 'BOOM!'). Everyone thought it was hilarious but I got sick of it quickly and retrained him before he hit second level.
We have a girl locally who plays a mute alchemist (we joke that it's because she drinks too much mutagen) and uses her iPad to write messages to people. I have to hand it to her, she's stuck it out for 5-6 levels I think.
I think if I were to do it with a monk I'd just let him be the strong and silent type that doesn't have much opinion and is passive in most things, that way I wouldn't have to write things out. Or just use a lot of grunts and pointing. Then people might think you're a troll though.
About the only way to make vow of poverty work is indeed to cannibalize one of your own stats. Let me tell you one thing: speaking as someone that has indeed made a monk with the vows of truth and silence... uh, it gets really annoying after a while; annoying for you, not the other players.
did this as well, as a Monk of the Sacred Mountain, at least keeping your trap shut gives a little more benefit like that.
I'd probably take a devil talisman of some description. At least I can summon something that can actually fight that way.
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If you insist on being unarmed, an Amulet of Might Fists is a must. However, with such a crippling choice for the monk, a temple sword will serve you much better because it is easier to enchant. You can also make it a ki weapon in order to use stunning fist through it. Good archetypes for a sword-wielding monk are hungry ki ghost and martial artist. The martial artist especially will grant you access to greater weapon focus / specialization with the temple sword for even better results. Weapon Adept would be great if only you could use perfect strike with a temple sword, alas by RAW you cannot.
Mantis style is fine, you should be aware though that for an unarmed Str monk dragon style rules. For the sword-wielding one the crane style feat tree is probably the best.
I'd probably recommend the Sohei archetype if one were intending to utilize weaponry as a monk. Still, I'm inclined to say that the belt of physical perfection gains ultimate victory of ultimate awesome when it comes to only being allowed a single magic item (assuming you're not using weapons on said monk). This is due to the fact that while unarmed, your monk class abilities will get you past most DR to start with. Meanwhile the belt will afford you +3 to hit/damage, HP, con, etc. Survivability is an important thing to worry about for monks since they're on a d8 instead of d10/d12.
Very tempting to make your one item a razorblade, just so you can roll a functional character. Having said that, if you MUST be a monk with the PF version of VoP, pick a bow and a zen archer. They are probably most capable of functioning without any other gear.
Don't do what thing? How will I ever know what thing not to do???
I've been tossing around the idea of making a monk with a few vows, one of which will be the Vow of Poverty-partly for RP reasons but partly because I just want to see if I can do it.
I'd like some opinions on what my one magical item will be. Of course, in a home game you could combine the bonuses of several items into one but in PFS we're stuck with what's in the book. So do you go straight for the amulet of mighty fists? Or do you worry more about staying alive and try to get your AC up with bracers of armor or a ring of protection? Or do you instead focus on being physically superior with a belt of physical perfection? Any other spectacular monk items I haven't considered yet?
(If it helps at all my monk will be unarmed and using Mantis Style, with Quinggong archetype for access to barkskin and a couple other things.)
Thanks!
Vow of Poverty and PFS?
No don't do this.
The thing about Vow of Poverty is that you can't own items or carry wealth on your person. You can bank all your treasure and save up for your one big item, tho.
Furthermore, who needs Bracers of Armor when you can just give the Wizard a Pearl of Power Lv1 in exchange for the Wizard casting Mage Armor on you every day? And who needs AoMF when you can just give your party's Druid, Ranger, Summoner, or UMDer a wand of Greater Magic Fang? Alternatively, you could just have Greater Magic Fang made permanent. Same goes for Resistance.
The thing about Vow of Poverty is that you can't own items or carry wealth on your person. You can bank all your treasure and save up for your one big item, tho.
Isn't that sort of cheating?
Depends on how the GM (and I'm presuming home game here) interprets the vow of poverty. Yes, it seems to go against the flavor, but I'm not sure how the build would be viable if we didn't make SOME concession to wealth.
In PFS, this would be pretty much expected. What would you do with the gold you're banking, otherwise?
How else would you get an Amulet of Mighty Fists in the first place? You can't start with it at first level, and your odds of finding it aren't great.
Restriction: The monk taking a vow of poverty must never own more than six possessions—a simple set of clothing, a pair of sandals or shoes, a bowl, a sack, a blanket, and any one other item. Five of these items must be of plain and simple make, though one can be of some value (often an heirloom of great personal significance to the monk). The monk can never keep more money or wealth on his person than he needs to feed, bathe, and shelter himself for 1 week in modest accommodations. He cannot borrow or carry wealth or items worth more than 50 gp that belong to others. He is allowed to accept and use curative potions (or similar magical items where the item is consumed and is valueless thereafter) from other creatures.
You can have the money, you just can't carry it. You can't own items, you can't carry money, you can't borrow either.
As a DM, I would try to reign in the one item of "some value." I think it's intended to be a masterwork item or something, not a +5 Flaming, Ki Focus Temple Sword. Furthermore, I think it's pretty cheesy to pawn your Belt of Physical Perfection +6, buy a single use item, use it, and then unpawn your belt. In PFS, tho, DMs aren't allowed that much discretion.
How else would you get an Amulet of Mighty Fists in the first place?
Erm... You don't? Just sort of weird if you can have as much as you want as long as you don't hold onto it. Ideally if your living in poverty you don't have a pile of gold to go swimming in that you just don't carry on you. I would think anyway.
How else would you get an Amulet of Mighty Fists in the first place?Erm... You don't? Just sort of weird if you can have as much as you want as long as you don't hold onto it. Ideally if your living in poverty you don't have a pile of gold to go swimming in that you just don't carry on you. I would think anyway.
Harry Potter was living in relative poverty though in Gringotts he was wealthy beyond pair.
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A gun.
So I could SHOOT MYSELF.
Harry Potter was living in relative poverty though in Gringotts he was wealthy beyond pair.How else would you get an Amulet of Mighty Fists in the first place?Erm... You don't? Just sort of weird if you can have as much as you want as long as you don't hold onto it. Ideally if your living in poverty you don't have a pile of gold to go swimming in that you just don't carry on you. I would think anyway.
Been ages since I've read harry potter. If I remember correctly he had a large fortune he didn't dip into much for some reason while in the wizard world, and back in the muggle's world he lived with relatives who were less than kind to him and would just as soon take his money. I have no idea what wizard boarding school's rules on using your large inheritance is, but then again, I'm not keen on the norm for boarding school's in the mortal realms.
A gun.
So I could SHOOT MYSELF.
Sorry, PFS doesn't allow guns for non gunslingers. You have to dip into gunslinger before you can do it. On the upside, you already shot yourself in the foot metaphorically, so how much harder can it be to do it figuratively, eh?
