Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator
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Here's a random thought: Imagine what will happen if a diabolist gets mind controlled, blows someone up with hellfire ray and they fail the save. Better hope the NPC you pay prestige to for raise dead gets good on its caster level check rolls, otherwise you ain't coming back. It's a nice little piece of what might happen if someone happens to get caught in that dominate and/or charm monster.
Hellfire Ray is not a legal spell. It (and other spells from that book except Visions of Hell) was removed in one of the last few Additional resource updates as a legal option.
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Here's a random thought: Imagine what will happen if a diabolist gets mind controlled, blows someone up with hellfire ray and they fail the save. Better hope the NPC you pay prestige to for raise dead gets good on its caster level check rolls, otherwise you ain't coming back. It's a nice little piece of what might happen if someone happens to get caught in that dominate and/or charm monster.Hellfire Ray is not a legal spell. It (and other spells from that book except Visions of Hell) was removed in one of the last few Additional resource updates as a legal option.
Ah, many of us had been under the (apparently mistaken) impression that gaining access to it as a class ability through the diabolist allowed you to use it for that limited number of times per day. The number of times per day it's usable is quite limited, but the PrC does indeed include that as a class mechanic. If that part of it doesn't work then I'd say that's probably for the best.
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With all of the fears about this being a completely over powered enchant, I am curious: Is there actually a neutral caster in the whole of PFS that charms you? I have played most of the scenarios in available, and I honestly can't recall one.
There is. I remember being somewhat miffed. But I can't seem to remember which scenario it was in.
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There are several suspiciously neutral casters that use mind-control effects in PFS.
One of them there is literally no way that if you read the character's backstory and deeds that anyone would possibly pick a non-evil alignment if you asked them to choose one. It was clearly an attempt to sidestep the ioun stone, since the dude used dominate and such.
There are several suspiciously neutral casters that use mind-control effects in PFS.One of them there is literally no way that if you read the character's backstory and deeds that anyone would possibly pick a non-evil alignment if you asked them to choose one. It was clearly an attempt to sidestep the ioun stone, since the dude used dominate and such.
Is there really? That sounds rather antagonistic.
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Is there really? That sounds rather antagonistic.There are several suspiciously neutral casters that use mind-control effects in PFS.One of them there is literally no way that if you read the character's backstory and deeds that anyone would possibly pick a non-evil alignment if you asked them to choose one. It was clearly an attempt to sidestep the ioun stone, since the dude used dominate and such.
It might be, but sometimes you get wonky alignments.
There's an NPC in the Serpent's Skull AP who will ruthlessly slay anybody who stands in the way of his financial gains.But he's LN???
I definitely see evilness and hardly see any lawfulness.
Of course, maybe he's an ex-PFS member. :)
Seriously though, sometimes it seems like the alignment and personality are separate decisions.
Back to the OP, I have seen more Neutral casters (on the good/evil axis), but I'd rather casters avoided the whole 'mind control' issue anyway.
One of the first scenarios I played in only one encounter didn't rely on mind control. The rest were shut down by ioun stones.
Not fun. Not fun at all.
Of course, I also may be biased by Dawn of the Scarlet Sun...
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Here's a random thought: Imagine what will happen if a diabolist gets mind controlled, blows someone up with hellfire ray and they fail the save. Better hope the NPC you pay prestige to for raise dead gets good on its caster level check rolls, otherwise you ain't coming back. It's a nice little piece of what might happen if someone happens to get caught in that dominate and/or charm monster.Hellfire Ray is not a legal spell. It (and other spells from that book except Visions of Hell) was removed in one of the last few Additional resource updates as a legal option.
Whoa. Didn't see that. Is there an announcement made anywhere when something that was legal is no longer legal? Even now the "red text" only highlights the change to the diabolist. If I didn't read this thread I might never have realized that.
On a personal side note I really mourn the loss of malediction.
And I actually got a BBEG to surrender using the spell as well. One of those "I care not if you kill me, I will be with my god!" types. (He really did say something very similar.) Cast this, he failed the saving throw but made a spellcraft check to identify it. "Would you like to rethink that before my friend with the bow fires again?"
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I hope to see them replace the hellfire ray class ability of diabolists with something else since it's banned. At present, there is just sort of a blank spot in acquired abilities where it had once been.
Anywho, why are people talking as if the dominate spells are evil? I don't see an evil descriptor on'em, and I sure don't think I'd consider making the BBEG start wrecking his own cohorts any form of evil act.
Now for the uh... actual topic. It's an awfully powerful enchantment to have, and it would sure as heck shut down more than its fair share of enemy abilities in PFS.
Now for the uh... actual topic. It's an awfully powerful enchantment to have, and it would sure as heck shut down more than its fair share of enemy abilities in PFS.
Eh, I never had a problem with shutting down things that weren't fun. Save or may as well leave the table abilities in particular always struck me as not fun.(pretty sure I said that up thread though...) Always have to look at the fun factor with things.
I'm glad to keep this non-pfs legal, I like the risk of enemy spells. A caster should be able to do more than just direct damage, and this is just one more avenue for them to work.
You prefer save or dies?
Keep in mind, even if your immune to charm and possession, you still have a lot of options as a caster. One of their greatest strengths is options, and a good number of your other options allow for players reactions. Casters doing straight damage usually wasn't their big thing in the first place, so much as battlefield control. Things that the player can participate and react to tend to be more fun than save or dies.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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As far as i remember most enchantment spells have a save per round.
If someone drops a willsave that low or can´t spare the investment of iron will or other things pushing his willsave, the person deserves to be dominated^^
As an example, in the book mind buttressing is in, there is a weapon enchantment +2 sneaking, which let´s a rogue do ranged sneak attack in a range of 45 feet, but it doesn´t stack with anything else that enhances sneak attack, not even the feats or class features it seems.
So, mind buttressing, a +2 armor enhancement, is not only way cheaper, it is also so much stronger. For me this seems very, very off. just like a lame excuse to power on some special builds that already are difficult to deal with often once more.
As far as i remember most enchantment spells have a save per round.
I'd double check your homework if I were you. The pathfinder version of Glitterdust and Hold Person do for example, but dominate, suggestion, and charm do not.
If someone drops a willsave that low or can´t spare the investment of iron will or other things pushing his willsave, the person deserves to be dominated^^
Careful, saying "player had it coming!" is a terrible way to think. That applies to most anything. Besides, you always have a chance of failure. Doesn't have to be a low save.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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Yeah and in my eyes the chance of failure should always be there, why else roll dice and not just skip the entire thing/combat? i had some other GM´s do that with small combats or when just minor foes were left, didn´t like it one bit. Either you focus on a storytelling aspect or you dice it out with the chance of failure.
Regarding homework, Glitterdust is not an enchantment spell, but conjuration. Charm and suggestion are often played way to powerful and don´t actually do what some people believe them to do. And dominate is a level 5 spell which does what it is supposed to. Other spells on that level from other schools are just on the same power curve.
As far as item go, look at amulett of proof against detection and location, comes at 35000gp. Even a ring of mind shielding costs 8000gp. Or periapt of proof against poison at 27000gp.
That iounstone resonant power is totally out of design and just as obnoxious if you ask me and anyway far too cheap too. And i´m not the only one with that opinion.
You want some people run and write scenarios for you?
Well, consider they should have some fun and ways to do that.
If that only becomes a headache, you can run and write the stuff for yourself at some point. I have to say there were enough combats so far that were totally obliterated buy some builds and things and this enhancement is very well going into the same direction.
Because being an aasimar is obvious.
Depends on the Aasimar. I don't go anywhere without a good adventuring costume and some protection for those special moments.
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If the aasimar is immune to dominate person, just dominate the person next to them into beating them to a pulp. No biggie.
I have two responses to this.
1.) In later season scenarios, this is probably not as easy of a thing to do, since they are designed for six PC's and it is very likely that may be the only turn that the creature takes.
2.) If it is just that easy of a thing to do, why is there so much hate against Mind Buttressing and the Clear Spindle Ioun stone?
I don't understand the logic of your statements, Tarma. Actually, I've had great difficulty following any of your positions. I would like to understand.
In regards to your first bullet point, if an encounter is designed for six PCs, then it has properly taken into account what that number of characters may be capable of doing. Still, there are purpose-driven builds (see: almost any archer) that are fully able to kill one or two formidable baddies per round. This has arisen for two reasons. The first is system mastery. The second is the play environment; there is not more in-game reward for having a character well-vested in Golarion and the emerging PFS storyline than for having a master of combat encounters.
In regards to your second bullet point, well, you really are answering your own question. And I don't think that is what you intended (nor what you think you are doing). You keep confusing your arguments and it makes it hard for someone to follow. You appear to be arguing that because two playable races have limited immunity to certain spell effects (this as the result of Paizo making the mistake of out-of-the-boxing Aasimars and Tieflings instead of knowing to make them Native Outsiders with the Humanoid subtype in regards to PFS play), every PC should have the right to purchase an enhancement to armor that is more powerful. Essentially, you are arguing that PCs should be able to buy their respective ways out of danger from selected spell effects. That is not a position I agree with, but, based upon other comments you have written in this thread, neither do you. There seems to be a lack of logical consistency.
In regards to the misapplied Aasimars and Tieflings, they are also blocked from several (potentially) beneficial spells because of the lack of the Humanoid type. You make no mention of this (that I have seen; I apologize if I missed any comments in regards to that from your posts).
But I am having much difficulty in following your arguments, Tarma.
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Let us also keep in mind that there are probably more tieflings and aasimar being used in PFS than any other races at this point. Having a whole party full of tieflings is kind of a middle finger to things that fling charm person around.
Well, aasimar and tiefling are effectively 10 races given their different stats and abilities.
Human
Elf
Gnome
Dwarf
Half Elf
Half orc
Halfling
Tengu
Since they are half the races, its not surprising they're half the characters.
Would probably help if you could discern why things were banned easier.
Regardless of what options a caster might potentially have, if their tactics state that they "Start by casting 'charm person' on the person in the heaviest armour", then no, they don't have options, and have just wasted a turn.
To be fair, I was talking about other options a caster could be written to use, rather than what a particular GM might use.
Also ideally you shouldn't set one guy up against six either. Minions are always a bonus and can help make sure CR is more appropriate. Can't count the number of times a single dragon in a room gets obliterated before he gets to do much himself. Probably off topic though.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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It seems like this should be the petition for the Ioun Stone to be banned - seems to have much more support.
That discussion has come up before.
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Pathfinder made huge steps to eliminate blanket immunities for PCs. SoS CSIS Resonance power was a mistake. At the very least, make it like mind blank and give it a +10, but to be more in-line with the rest of the resonance powers, it should be a +2 or +4 vs. those effects and not reference PfE.