The Morphling |
Short of dipping a level into Necromancer or Cleric to qualify for this feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/versatile-channeler), is there any way for an Oracle to channel energy to harm living creatures (Bones Oracle or Life Oracle)? Perhaps some magic item or obscure feat I'm missing? I really want to make channeling into an effective combat tactic offensively against most foes, not just a heal/niche attack when Undead roll out.
n o 417 |
If you are willing to spend 11000 for that Phylactery, you get a little bit more oomph. But I don't know if that is worth the money.
When you are getting swarmed by mooks it is a viable tactic, but apart from that it's usabilty is indeed limited. Thers also seems to be an option to have a dazing channel, if I remember correctly.
The Morphling |
Even Negative channeling is not a effective combat tactic, usable offensively against most foes.
As near as I can tell, anything that lets you drop (level/2)d6 damage on multiple targets as a move action (with the awesome quick channel), and then cast a spell, multiple times per day, is pretty awesome.
If you are willing to spend 11000 for that Phylactery, you get a little bit more oomph. But I don't know if that is worth the money.
When you are getting swarmed by mooks it is a viable tactic, but apart from that it's usabilty is indeed limited. Thers also seems to be an option to have a dazing channel, if I remember correctly.
What phylactery?
Imbicatus |
If you are willing to spend 11000 for that Phylactery, you get a little bit more oomph. But I don't know if that is worth the money.
Terrible item. 1, it only adds if you can already channel neg energy, it doesn't give you the ability to do so. 2, it takes the headband slot, which is the same slot your int/wis/cha stat-boosting items use.
Hogeyhead |
I'm sorry, but no matter what you do your channel energy cannot be altered by versatile channel. If you read carefully channel energy does not stack so for instance if you took a level of neutral cleric, and then got versatile channel and had levels of oracle of life, you would be able to channel both kinds of energy with your cleric channel, but because the choice to channel negative or positive energy was made for you, as a life oracle you cannot alter your positive channel energy.
If I'm wrong by RAW I'd like to be told as this is something I too would really like to do.
BTW if you want to be a really powerful channeler, be an Aassimar oracle of life and spend your favored class bonus on upgrading channel energy, then get the phylactery, and quick channel, (requires improved channel) if you can afford it get extra channel (can be taken only once), and to compensate for your loss of headband slot get an ioun stone +2 cha, its twice the price, but otherwise you can't have both bonuses. Selective channel is a must in this case
This makes the build need feats (3-4), but if you do it you have a very strong move action a few times a day, and considering you are a spell caster (full spell caster too), and how few good move actions there are, this is very strong. at lvl 11 you can channel 10d6 as a move action. if you nova in one hard fight per day, your allies are almost unkillable for a few rounds. if you do this just remember you can't add any metamagic, as that turns the action into a full round action. (which is really too bad, oh well).
The Morphling |
I'm sorry, but no matter what you do your channel energy cannot be altered by versatile channel. If you read carefully channel energy does not stack so for instance if you took a level of neutral cleric, and then got versatile channel and had levels of oracle of life, you would be able to channel both kinds of energy with your cleric channel, but because the choice to channel negative or positive energy was made for you, as a life oracle you cannot alter your positive channel energy.
If I'm wrong by RAW I'd like to be told as this is something I too would really like to do.
Well, today's your lucky day. By RAW, the feat simply requires that you be a cleric who's not forced to choose. The feat never specifies that it's the cleric's channeling that's affected - it just says that "your channel energy class feature" can be used in the alternate way. Therefore, a level 1 cleric, level 9 Oracle of Life can channel negative energy as a 7th level cleric, or as a 1st level cleric. You're correct that they don't stack - which is why I didn't want to take the Cleric level if I could avoid it.
It looks like this is what I might do (or take a level in Necromancer instead, to get some fun arcane toys).
BTW if you want to be a really powerful channeler, be an Aassimar oracle of life and spend your favored class bonus on upgrading channel energy
Have you guessed yet why I want to be an Oracle, not a Cleric?
;)
Brad McDowell |
Morphling, I just wanted you to know, that in spite of all the nay-sayers on the boards here, that I'll be looking into this over the weekend. I, too, am intrigued by negative channeling.
It's really disheartening to see an advice thread like this turn into a "this idea suxxors" thread. As such, if there does come to be some good negative channeling advice in here, I'll be watching, and hopefully helping.
-B
AnnoyingOrange |
Hogeyhead wrote:I'm sorry, but no matter what you do your channel energy cannot be altered by versatile channel. If you read carefully channel energy does not stack so for instance if you took a level of neutral cleric, and then got versatile channel and had levels of oracle of life, you would be able to channel both kinds of energy with your cleric channel, but because the choice to channel negative or positive energy was made for you, as a life oracle you cannot alter your positive channel energy.
If I'm wrong by RAW I'd like to be told as this is something I too would really like to do.
Well, today's your lucky day. By RAW, the feat simply requires that you be a cleric who's not forced to choose. The feat never specifies that it's the cleric's channeling that's affected - it just says that "your channel energy class feature" can be used in the alternate way. Therefore, a level 1 cleric, level 9 Oracle of Life can channel negative energy as a 7th level cleric, or as a 1st level cleric. You're correct that they don't stack - which is why I didn't want to take the Cleric level if I could avoid it.
It looks like this is what I might do (or take a level in Necromancer instead, to get some fun arcane toys).
Hogeyhead wrote:BTW if you want to be a really powerful channeler, be an Aassimar oracle of life and spend your favored class bonus on upgrading channel energyHave you guessed yet why I want to be an Oracle, not a Cleric?
;)
Technically a necromancer wouldn't allow you to qualify since you dont have the channel energy class feature (power over undead or revelation is not the same thing). Yes it is a stupid RAW argument but people on these forums like that sort of thing.
The Morphling |
Technically a necromancer wouldn't allow you to qualify since you dont have the channel energy class feature (power over undead or revelation is not the same thing). Yes it is a stupid RAW argument but people on these forums like that sort of thing.
The Necromancer's ability is still a channel energy class feature, even with a different name. Numerous feats require "animal companion class feature" - but there's no such class feature. Druids have "nature bond," a class feature which grants an animal companion.
I'll keep an eye too. While everything I've seen up until now seems to indicate chanelling is a poor stratgy, let's see if it can work.
The thing is, it's a poor strategy if it's all you do. But with Quick Channel, you can keep casting one spell per round and still be channeling regularly. As an Oracle, your Charisma is probably through the roof, so you can channel more often than a Cleric, and as an Aasimar, you channel at Oracle Level * 1.5 - more dice and higher DC. With Improved Channel, you get a massive and very difficult to beat DC, dealing decent damage, to multiple targets, all as an AoE - all without impeding your spellcasting.
Throw in some ability that lets you be healed by negative energy (there's at least one - the 8th-level Death Domain power), and you can heal yourself AND hurt your enemies.
It's really such a shame that the feat's prerequisites include class titles - that's poor feat design. The best prerequisites include only class features, so more characters can use them in their builds.
DrDeth |
DrDeth wrote:Even Negative channeling is not a effective combat tactic, usable offensively against most foes.As near as I can tell, anything that lets you drop (level/2)d6 damage on multiple targets as a move action (with the awesome quick channel), and then cast a spell, multiple times per day, is pretty awesome.
Not too many times a day, since each use burns two channels- and this costs no less than two feats. They get a save, too. And, it's hardly free as it really cuts into your healing.
Magda Luckbender |
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If you wanted to channel negative energy you should have played a Cleric, not an Oracle. I think you're out of luck. I think this was clearly a design choice for the high-CHA Life Oracle. Versatile Channel is off the table. On the bright side, Alignment Channel does allow you to channel positive energy to harm the appropriate type of Outsiders. On the dim side, that's an entire feat just to be able to channel offensively against some Outsiders. But it does work.
I've played several negative-channeling Clerics, so I'll share my experience. Channeling to heal allies requires no resource investment. Channeling offensively requires a large resource investment: high CHA, at least Selective Channel, Improved Channel, and Quick Channel. Once you have those, Versatile Channeling, Extra Channels, and even Alignment Channel start to look good. Unfortunately, that's most of your feats.
Regular negative energy channeling, used offensively versus living things, is fairly effective in the lower and middle levels. I only used it if there were three or more foes. Combine channeling with spells and AoOs. Quick channel for best results. A crowd of foes, a quick channel, and a regular channel sometimes yield a huge damage nova. By high levels, though, it's just not doing enough damage to be worth the huge investment it required. Channel damage increases linearly with level, while enemy HP increase geometrically. I was sad to discover that offensive channeling is rarely as useful as it seems like it should be.
Variant Channeling offers mostly terrible options, with just a few terrific choices. The best harm effects are Rulership (for Daze), Ale & Wine (for Nausea), and Freedom (for Slow). None are good for the heal effect. This deeply flawed article with some great ideas discusses the Hangover Cleric Build.
I played a Cleric with 9 uses/day high DC Ale & Wine (Nausea) Variant Channeling. It was tremendously, outrageously effective. You force every foe in 30' to make a Will Save or be nauseated and unable to act. You also inflict damage to every foe. Combine with Quick Channel for extra fun, and you completely shut down most foes. You buy time for your team to easily defeat the enemy.
The rules about Variant Channeling, both RAW and RAI, are deeply flawed in some critical ways. At first read it seems clear how it works. Unfortunately, a more careful 'rules lawyerly' reading often gives the opposite result. It was not play-tested sufficiently. For this reason I will avoid making another variant channeling PC for PFS play, even though the first one kicked *%*. For home games you will need your GM to decide how variant channeling works in that world. I advise against trying variant channeling for PFS until there's a definitive FAQ. After reading everything about this topic in the forums (not very much), these seem to be the main points of contention:
1. If your Cleric is a Variant Channeler, does the Variant Channeling apply to both the heal and the harm effects, or does it apply to either heal or harm, but not both. A reasonable person can interpret it either way. It makes a huge difference.
2. Do the heal/harm effects reverse versus living/undead things. E.g. When a Positive Energy Variant Channeling (Rulership) Cleric of Iomedae channels positive energy to Harm undead, does the Variant Channeling Daze effect apply? It seems like it ought to work that way (RAI?), but RAW can reasonably be interpreted either way. It makes a huge difference.
3. The Variant Channeling description says it applies to a deity's 'Portfolio'. However, the words used to define Variant Channeling mostly do not match up to the words used in Golarion Deities' 'Portfolio'. It seems the developers perhaps wrote 'Portfolio' while sometimes thinking 'Domain'. For example, despite all the Golarion gods of Freedom, there is no way to channel the harm effect of Freedom. Only Clerics of the Archdevil Dispater can channel negative Rulership (great BBEG material!). There are many cases where Variant Channeling is thematically appropriate to a particular deity, but is not allowed RAW.
Until these questions are answered I would avoid using Variant Channeling for Organized Play.
Ramanujan |
Worth noting that a Warpriest's Channel is based on Wisdom, not Charisma. (Although you need ~13 or so Cha for some of the channeling feats)
And they can get Versatile Channel.
I'm currently looking at building a Warpriest based entirely on Wisdom with the Guided Weapon Feat and Guided Weapon Property ... letting me dump Physical stats.
Magda Luckbender |
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Here's Salvador, a selective variant versatile quick channeling evangelist cleric, at 11th level. I created Salvador to play with a hyper-optimised group. He died of old age during a game session a few weeks ago. Other PCs wept at his funeral. RIP.
Salvador had several 'schicks':
1. DC 23 Rulership ('Daze') variant channeling
2. +5/+5 bardsong (Inspire courage, Flagbearer, and Banner of Ancient Kings)
3. Solid melee combat ability (easily 150+ HP per round) with pet
4. Healing power comparable to vanilla cleric, maybe a bit better
5. Full divine caster no dips