[Amora Game - Kickstarter] the Book of Collective Influence - LIVE


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Never been so honored to have a class I wrote called "the most boring and best functioning class here." ;-)
(Normally the opposite of what I write lol)


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Insain Dragoon wrote:

I dunno, I found the only "fascinating" mechanic on the Kineticist to be Burn. Everything else was "and this is how you modify your blast." Even if Burn is very interesting, I don't feel that the Mystic in the play test had many actual options. This may change later though.

With the Mystic, due to Ki Techniques, I have a ton of options every single turn, I can do melee or range combat with eventual free Elemental Strikes/Blast iteratives, and the talents really expand what is "normal" for your dude.

The Kineticist was fascinating for being a different kind of 'caster' compared to other things paizo puts out and being an infinite caster in general. By comparison the Mystic is close to being a quigong monk with elemental spells in his ki abilities. That said I hope my language did not insinuate that the Mystic was on par with the Kineticist. The Mystic is miles ahead is utility, power and realizing concepts and sticking with normal design standards is a plus. The kineticist that came out during the playtest had to get really conservative considering that it had at-will abilities which made it a fairly narrow class. The mystic feels like it could go in all kinds of directions and still be an 'elementaler' class. I'm actually a little afraid for Kineticist because after picking ups Drop Dead Studio's Spheres of Power there are 20 different categories of abilities that follow it's design that are less complicated and overall better. With Spheres of Power and the Mystic running around the final Kineticist better be pretty impressive or no one will want to play it at my tables unless they are staunchly against third party materials.

@Scott_UAT; Glad you took that as a compliment because it was. Some classes get complicated, full of jargon and try to do too much which bogs it down or makes me not want to allow it because I don't fully grasp what exactly it does. The Survivalist is simple and does what it's supposed to do. It doesn't put me on an inspired theorycrafting spree but I have a manly lumberjack character concept that I have not been able to actually realize until I saw the Survivalist, so the class found an empty niche and fills it, which is more than I can say about a lot of classes I've seen.


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VM mercenario wrote:

What Bradley said.

I like the base Synergy ability. I like how it builds up on the sucesses of the party. I like how Aptitude is a bonus to all skill checks, instead of having to guess which skill will be needed. I love that giving Synergy is not restricted to in combat, so you can give everyone Aptitude so the party can participate in social ecountes or sneak around for an ambush or give them Fleet if you need to escape. And the whole thing is EX so you can use to cheat at competitions with impunity.

Thanks for the feedback VM! I was definitely stumped for a while on making the Synergist social-conversant, and was mindful of the design path so that it still functions out of combat. Thanks to Michael Sayre on this too - early drafts and feedback on the Battlelord let us find the differences in our two "group character" concepts.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
VM mercenario wrote:

What Bradley said.

I like the base Synergy ability. I like how it builds up on the sucesses of the party. I like how Aptitude is a bonus to all skill checks, instead of having to guess which skill will be needed. I love that giving Synergy is not restricted to in combat, so you can give everyone Aptitude so the party can participate in social ecountes or sneak around for an ambush or give them Fleet if you need to escape. And the whole thing is EX so you can use to cheat at competitions with impunity.
Thanks for the feedback VM! I was definitely stumped for a while on making the Synergist social-conversant, and was mindful of the design path so that it still functions out of combat. Thanks to Michael Sayre on this too - early drafts and feedback on the Battlelord let us find the differences in our two "group character" concepts.

The thanks goes right back your way!

Without Morgan's feedback the Battlelord would have been a different class than it ended up being, in small but important ways. I spent a bit of time being nervous about whether there was room in the book for two "facilitator" type classes, but in the end I feel like we ended up with two classes that not only have unique design space, but which can even work together in the same party to pretty awesome effect.


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UPDATE 53 is on the kickstarter page. Updates the current print run info and announces the final PDF release time.


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500% hype. Everyone who worked on this book, thank you. A crazy awesome book from crazy awesome people.


The final file has been updated for those that bought it here.


I just got my updated file and wow! There is a lot of new stuff here! Not just archetypes, but even a whole class. It'll take me a little bit to look at all the new toys, but I really appreciate this release.


Warsmith? Interesting...

Weren't bookmarks supposed to be added, though?


Feat table at pages 138-39 are slightly skewed.


Of great interest to me was the new warsmith base class that was eluded to in some previous posts. I was rather eager to give it a read and did just that upon downloading the freshly updated book. Overall I like it (although I am still struggling to figure out what role he would serve in your standard 4 man party). However, some rather odd choices. For starters, no proficiency with medium or heavy armor. I can sort of understand this as smiths don't usually run around with fullplate. The issue I have though is that the class is called the warsmith. For this reason I would have expected him to be able to be proficient with medium/heavy armor. Also, given the 3/4 bab and the class' chassis, I can see them with a good will save progression, or possibly even a good reflex save progression. This would be thematic as they are accustomed to dodging the sparks, flames and various metallic shrapnel that is produced while smithing.

Cheers
Volf


bookmarks are on the way.

The warsmith is our old re-revised tinker class (which we are updating the old doc.)
He is really designed to be a mobile black smith. We wanted to keep with the idea and in play testing it was a little strong with full armor. But we can get a heavy armored archetype for it.


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Amora Game wrote:

bookmarks are on the way.

The warsmith is our old re-revised tinker class (which we are updating the old doc.)
He is really designed to be a mobile black smith. We wanted to keep with the idea and in play testing it was a little strong with full armor. But we can get a heavy armored archetype for it.

Many thanks for the response! I have to wonder how strong it would be though? Assuming it's a regular 4 man party,even with heavy armor proficiency, I just cannot see how that would be unbalancing given his rather focused area of expertise. How exactly was the warsmith play tested? I only ask so that I am better able to understand why it's unbalanced.

I love the idea of a mobile blacksmith. But again, I must ask, in what capacity/role does he fit in with a regular adventuring group? I have seen a real glut of additional base classes and realized that the bulk of them simply cannot fill one of the standard roles (ie warrior/tank, arcanist, cleric/healer, rogue/skillmonkey). I understand not everything needs to fit nicely within a category and that there's always room for a "5th" wheel, when and if possible. This would be dependent on the gaming group though.

Please do not take this as any sort of an attack! I am only trying my best to see this amazing product (this will be the first product that I am going to be writing a full review for!) ... made even better.

Cheers
Volf

PS If all else fails ... an archetype would be spiffy.:)


Reposting from other thread.

Azure Flames pg 76 of the book (78 on the PDF)still says

Quote:

Azure Flames (Su): As a swift action, the mystic can
spend 1 ki point in order to allow her elemental strike,
elemental techniques, and mystic talents to ignore 5
points of fire resistance until the end of the turn.

I thought Alex rewrote that ability? His comment is here.

Additionally I find it odd that the marine class grants competence bonuses to stealth, swim, and survival as generally class bonuses to skills are untyped or not competence (AKA that bonus that items give for super cheap. Greater shadow enchant is a +15 competence bonus to stealth isn't it?)


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Thank you for the Warsmith. I never did get around to getting the tinker. I always wanted to play a smith that had created a weak golem to follow him around. Gestalting this and the Mechamage from Thunderscape (the latter being just magical) lets me do this.

This concept has been bouncing around for more than a decade.


So, here's a dumb question... are backers supposed to have their final pdf copy? Because for the life of me, I can't find mine anywhere.


You should already have been sent a code for a copy at DrivethruRPG - that copy has now been updated. If not then I'm sure Greg will get on it to get you a copy ASAP!!!


Ah-ha! Found it! Turns out I'd misplaced the email and never redeemed the code. Feeling kinda sheepish now, but all's well!


@El Ronza - Glad you found it :).

@Volvogg - See to me the bard fills a role as well. The warsmith would fall in the same category as a bard or alchemist, which intern fill the role of the "rogue/skill monkey".
And we have have an archetype for it in an expansion.


Amora Game wrote:
@Volvogg - See to me the bard fills a role as well. The warsmith would fall in the same category as a bard or alchemist, which intern fill the role of the "rogue/skill monkey".

The only issue I see with this statement is the fact that they only receive 4 skill points per level and their main class ability works off of Charisma. If the class were to be defined, categorically, as a skillmonkey type should they not at least receive 6 skill points per level. The warsmith also has a very limited skill list as well. I realize that the alchemist only receives 4 per level but they have a plethora of buffs, along with the infusion discovery, (and potions) that they can offer to the group.

Amora Game wrote:
And we have have an archetype for it in an expansion.

Awesome.:)

Cheers
Volf


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I might be a compulsive rules tinkerer... I see a new class, and instead of thinking about making a character, I am thinking about how to tweak with that class...


Drejk wrote:
I might be a compulsive rules tinkerer... I see a new class, and instead of thinking about making a character, I am thinking about how to tweak with that class...

Hmm ... methinks this might be directed at me.:p If so I would like to say that the point of my suggestions is because I was thinking about making a character. It's difficult to do this when, at least in my normal gaming group, every role has to be covered in some way. By extension this has now become my frame of thought whenever I see a new base class. For those that I really find amazing I tend to be vocal about how I think the class could be made better. This is simply my point of view. I hope that I remain constructive and in the end maybe, possibly, I made some sense. If this would lead to some revisions/changes/epiphanies/whatever cool. If not, no problem. This doesn't change the fact that the class is still pretty darn awesome.

If this comment was not directed at me ... apologies for the rant.

Cheers
Volf


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Nah. That was reaction to seeing comment about warsmith. My first impression was "Charisma? It should be Int-based class".


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Drejk wrote:
Nah. That was reaction to seeing comment about warsmith. My first impression was "Charisma? It should be Int-based class".

D'oh ... sorry Drejk! I also wanted to mention that I agree that the class should be Intelligence based.

Cheers
Volf


@Alex
Mystic Question: Elemental Strike

relevant parts of text from Ki pool and Path basics wrote:


By spending 1 point from her ki pool as a swift action,
a mystic can make an elemental strike. Upon doing so,
the mystic’s base attack bonus for the strike changes to
equal her total mystic class level. The damage from her
elemental strike is based on her level instead of the
weapon’s type. The damage dealt by an elemental strike
is indicated on Table: Mystic (see the table above for
Small and Large mystics). If the weapon that is used
would normally deal more damage than indicated by this
ability, its damage is unchanged. This increase in damage
does not affect any other aspect of the weapon.

When making an elemental
strike, the mystic [/b]can[b] deal half or all of the damage dealt
by her elemental strike as fire damage.

It seems like I don't have to make my elemental strike deal Fire damage? If so wouldn't it read as

"When making an elemental
strike, the mystic deals their choice of half or all of the damage dealt
by her elemental strike as fire damage." or something similar?

I'm hoping this this a feature and not a bug because this would give my Mystic a lot more to do against "bad matchups."

Instead of burning my enemy with my fire wreathed fists I'd be using jet assisted punches to pummel my foes.


@Volf & @Drejk
The idea of a warsmith having a charisma was the emulate ability. He is manipulating the arcane energies to mimic spells, much like he would if he was imitating a caster when using UMD skill. It also works for several of his designs, such as scroll burst, shake a stick at it, etc. Several designs are manipulating objects versus having the knowledge of their use.

@Insain Dragoon
I can see where you can read it that way. I can't speak for Alex, but as the publisher i would say reading as written, it is when you perform the elemental strike, it is either half or all.
But we can double check with him, and possibly reword it before the final print run.

If not it will be an errata release.


As a note I really really like my version of the reading. Since Earth and Air get regular type damage they don't have to worry about immunities or resistance like Fire and Water do. Also it gives force the option to not lose damage when elemental striking.

Also the mental image of my character blasting fire out of his elbow so he can punch harder is sooooo cool!

An explanation for how I came to my conclusion:
The part from Ki pool only says that when doing an elemental strike you get damage boost and BAB boost. If the part from Path Basics wasn't there the ability would still be useable because of the complete wording of the Ki pool part. Because of this the part from Path Basics reads as options that can modify the Elemental Strike, but aren't required to perform the strike.


Amora Game wrote:

@Volf & @Drejk

The idea of a warsmith having a charisma was the emulate ability. He is manipulating the arcane energies to mimic spells, much like he would if he was imitating a caster when using UMD skill. It also works for several of his designs, such as scroll burst, shake a stick at it, etc. Several designs are manipulating objects versus having the knowledge of their use.

Hmm ... the class is called the warsmith which seems like a profession that is taught and learned along with long hours of study and practice in order to master your trade. Whereas a magesmith would be more in line of a someone using his force of personality to manipulate energies and materials into solid form.

I guess we simply view this differently.:) Many thanks for taking the time to discuss this matter! It's greatly appreciated. I won't bother you any more with my rantings.

Cheers
Volf


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@Insain Dragoon - fair enough and good reason. I will mark this for FAQ debate.

@Volf - please continue to rant at us. We love it actually. You also make good points and backed by Drejk (who is the metamorph author). I will contemplate before final print run.


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I agree with the Volf that the warsmith - the name itself at least - gives me an impression of trained professional with Intelligence more suitable than Charisma. It might be less the matter of the class design and more of the naming issue, though.

Contributor

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@Insain Dragoon The wording was correct and intentional. The elemental strike feature of the mystic's ki pool never once mentions that the type of the damage is altered by the elemental strike; the path basics feature of the mystic's elemental path modifies this.

Effectively, elemental strike increases the damage dice of your weapon up to a certain point and your weapon deals damage based on that value, but still of the weapon's type. Path Basics allows you to further modify the kind of damage that your weapon deals, so you could exchange half or all of the damage that your weapon deals for the type(s) indicated by the path basics ability.

In order words, you read the ability correctly. If you want to fluff it as flame rocket elbows, you can.


I am ecstatic! I'm so glad that a man of such exquisite taste wrote the Mystic :)

Also thanks for answering all the questions I pop in with.

I hope I can buy a physical copy of this book soon :)


So, when do we make another class book? Because I think I am finally finishing something that I started ages ago... ;)

Contributor

Drejk wrote:
So, when do we make another class book? Because I think I am finally finishing something that I started ages ago... ;)

I don't know what Greg's plans are, but I'm getting ready to launch my Pact Magic Unbound: Grimoire of Lost Souls kickstarter with Dario this month. :D


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Drejk wrote:
So, when do we make another class book? Because I think I am finally finishing something that I started ages ago... ;)
I don't know what Greg's plans are, but I'm getting ready to launch my Pact Magic Unbound: Grimoire of Lost Souls kickstarter with Dario this month. :D

I need to check if d20pfsrd has anything about Pact Magic to view if I have anything to offer for that one...


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Drejk wrote:
So, when do we make another class book? Because I think I am finally finishing something that I started ages ago... ;)
I don't know what Greg's plans are, but I'm getting ready to launch my Pact Magic Unbound: Grimoire of Lost Souls kickstarter with Dario this month. :D

Actually Alex I'm pretty interested in what else you've worked on. What stuff did you have a major role in design?


LIC vol 2 will be a while. Expansions for volume 1 have to come first. As will the finishing of Prepare for War AP. Hand Over Fisticuffs. The adventure from that was funded by the KS. etc...

Contributor

Insain Dragoon wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Drejk wrote:
So, when do we make another class book? Because I think I am finally finishing something that I started ages ago... ;)
I don't know what Greg's plans are, but I'm getting ready to launch my Pact Magic Unbound: Grimoire of Lost Souls kickstarter with Dario this month. :D
Actually Alex I'm pretty interested in what else you've worked on. What stuff did you have a major role in design?

This is a rough list of almost every product that's attributed to my name thus far. In regards to Raging Swan stuff, some of the products are compendiums that include villages, dungeon dressings, or alternate dungeons that I've written for them.

Primarily, I've the Pathfinder Designer for Radiance House's Pact Magic Unbound series, and I also own and operate my own company, Everyman Gaming, LLC. I also wrote the Magic Items section in the Giant Hunter's Handbook for Paizo and I have a section in the upcoming Monster Summoner's Handbook.

PS. I actually just released my Microsized Adventures product this coming/last week. Its a book that gives rules for shrinking your PCs down Honey I Shrunk the Kids style. ;-)


@Amora

About how much will a physical copy of the book be?


Print will be $42.99

POD may have a discount due to lower quality paper.


For those that have been following our facebook page we recently received our NPC manuscript. Chuck full of 40+ NPCs. We are working diligently on the 'Expansions' book funded by the left over money from the kickstarter. We are around 43% done.

The metamorph and mystic get some love. The mnemonic gets an archetype focused on meditation feats.

A few new designers make their debut Pathfinder appearance. Ad well as some favored freelancers.

What would you like to see in the expansions book?

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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Amora Game wrote:

For those that have been following our facebook page we recently received our NPC manuscript. Chuck full of 40+ NPCs. We are working diligently on the 'Expansions' book funded by the left over money from the kickstarter. We are around 43% done.

The metamorph and mystic get some love. The mnemonic gets an archetype focused on meditation feats.

A few new designers make their debut Pathfinder appearance. Ad well as some favored freelancers.

What would you like to see in the expansions book?

Sorry I had too much going on to help with that NPC book, but my wife appreciates that you let me leave to get married ;P

I'm going to try and e-mail you the Battlelord archetypes when I get home tonight, they've been sitting ready on my laptop for like a week and I keep forgetting to attach and send them.


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Amora Game wrote:

For those that have been following our facebook page we recently received our NPC manuscript. Chuck full of 40+ NPCs. We are working diligently on the 'Expansions' book funded by the left over money from the kickstarter. We are around 43% done.

The metamorph and mystic get some love. The mnemonic gets an archetype focused on meditation feats.

A few new designers make their debut Pathfinder appearance. Ad well as some favored freelancers.

What would you like to see in the expansions book?

I know that the Warsmith was kind of a late addition but if anything needed expansion and support it would be the Warsmith.

A patch or feat for what the Conduit does when there are no spells around. Same goes for the Mnemonic when there are no sentient creatures (surprisingly common).


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Just because the fighter has a 7 Int, it doesn't mean he isn't sentient. ;-)


Warsmith will get some touch ups.

I await the battle lord expansion.


Demiurge gets some great NPC love. As does the umbra.


Cheapy wrote:
Just because the fighter has a 7 Int, it doesn't mean he isn't sentient. ;-)

Fighter being sentient does not mean he is actually sapient...


Ssalarn wrote:
Amora Game wrote:

For those that have been following our facebook page we recently received our NPC manuscript. Chuck full of 40+ NPCs. We are working diligently on the 'Expansions' book funded by the left over money from the kickstarter. We are around 43% done.

The metamorph and mystic get some love. The mnemonic gets an archetype focused on meditation feats.

A few new designers make their debut Pathfinder appearance. Ad well as some favored freelancers.

What would you like to see in the expansions book?

Sorry I had too much going on to help with that NPC book, but my wife appreciates that you let me leave to get married ;P

I'm going to try and e-mail you the Battlelord archetypes when I get home tonight, they've been sitting ready on my laptop for like a week and I keep forgetting to attach and send them.

Looking forward to seeing your contributions!

This book is going to be the first I get published in! I wrote a Mystic Archetype, an item, and about 6 Mystic Talents!


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Going to echo Michael - I'd be happy to add some support for the Synergist (heh heh) and a few archetypes...


Morgan if you have something email me.

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