I've been wondering, how would the justicar code of the asari from mass effect game series work in pathfinder? Also how would it work on a paladin?
For those who do not know what justicars are and do not want to google it, here is the short version: they are people who wander around righting wrongs as defined by their unwavering code of justice, similar to knight-errands or samurai's in a sense. They follow a certain code that has ''answers'' to every possible situation and their moral is completely black and white, there exists no grey situations. The innocent have nothing to fear but the wicked are punished severely and they uphold the law.
I had the idea of this ''avenger'' paladin or a punisher/judge dredd kind of character that punishes all criminals no matter who they are and is ready to die for the sake of innocent people.
As an example he will defend a village of complete strangers from marauding bandits, but if afterwards it's revealed that all the villagers are running a smuggling cartel, then he will execute all of them for that crime or at least punish severely, children aside of course.
Your opinions?
LN hellkinight?
Yeah it reminds me of hellknight's but would any hellknight ever willingly die for an innocent? I think they would just save their ass and fight an other day so they can uphold the law or save more people later on.
Also aren't they more of upholding the law only? Like nothing else matters?
Generally perhaps, but there is no reason your particular Hellknight wouldnt willingly die to help innocent folks.
That is true, but could a paladin be something like that? Trying to avoid the lawful stupid path even though it threads really close to it. More likely he doesn't auto attack those he detects as evil but attacks those who commit crimes/break the law.
I really have a problem figuring how it would work on a paladin if he'd execute common bandits instead of trying to make them redeem themselves?
LG Hell Knight, perhaps?
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From my experience in Mass effect I dont think Paladin would fit. For instance, the scene where the justicar threatens to kill the officer for interferring with her investigation isnt something I see a paladin doing. On a law level its a good match but the justicar doesnt seem to fit the good bit of being a paladin.
Samara does compare Justicars to Samurai, so there is that...
And of course, you surely don't need a "Code of Conduct" class feature to have a code of conduct. Just make your character have follow her own code. She could be a Wizard and still have a code of conduct.
There is an actual Justicar prestige class who counts among their special abilities,
The ability to know changes to a law as they are being written.
Radiating as a creature of law +4 HD above what your current is.
And I believe being accepted as a lawful entity wherever you go, (such as kicking down a door and shouting JUSTICAR!!!)
Its on PFSRD.
From my experience in Mass effect I don't think Paladin would fit. For instance, the scene where the justicar threatens to kill the officer for interfering with her investigation isn't something I see a paladin doing. On a law level its a good match but the justicar doesn't seem to fit the good bit of being a paladin.
I could see it. Justicars are strictly lawful, but don't let things like politics, red-tape, etc. interfere in tracking down criminals, which she was. Justicar law, in the eyes of Justicars, supersede local law. In a sense, the officers was giving the criminal time to get away, thus, the Justicar, by her code, was justified in killing the officer, if that is what was necessary to continue pursuit.
It's a severe code, but it is definitely bent towards good, imo.
The other side of the coin is, if your DM allows this, keeping with the code is going to be just as severe in adherence, so do your character justice and take time to wrap your head around the concept.
Cool idea, Sir Dante.
Sounds like Lawful Evil to me.
A willingness to do anything so long as it upholds the law, even if it is a hideously evil (but legal) act.
"The law is more important than the people it protects."
Sounds like Lawful Evil to me.
A willingness to do anything so long as it upholds the law, even if it is a hideously evil (but legal) act.
"The law is more important than the people it protects."
Agreed. Also I can't imagine 2-5 other adventures all wanting to hang out with that kinda LN. At least paladins can be nice guys.
There is an actual Justicar prestige class who counts among their special abilities,
The ability to know changes to a law as they are being written.
Radiating as a creature of law +4 HD above what your current is.
And I believe being accepted as a lawful entity wherever you go, (such as kicking down a door and shouting JUSTICAR!!!)
Its on PFSRD.
Yeah it's a neat prestige class but I find the crossbow focus really limiting and sad, since you can't make that many good crossbow characters. (at least I'm not good at that)
Sounds like Lawful Evil to me.
A willingness to do anything so long as it upholds the law, even if it is a hideously evil (but legal) act.
"The law is more important than the people it protects."
More likely LN since he does not harm any innocents, only those who aid criminals. But I do see your point that killing some peasant because he just wants no more deaths in his village and that's why he protects the criminal from death or etc. would be evil.
Agreed. Also I can't imagine 2-5 other adventures all wanting to hang out with that kinda LN. At least paladins can be nice guys.Sounds like Lawful Evil to me.
A willingness to do anything so long as it upholds the law, even if it is a hideously evil (but legal) act.
"The law is more important than the people it protects."
Totally agreeing that it's a lawful pain in the partys ass and that's why I try to brainstorm and ask for help how to make it work :) I like the noble protects innocents but punishes the wrongdoers concept.
Goals might be good, however at my table if you kill innocent people to achieve them thats not so good. Not a problem for non-paladin like folks.
Maybe a LN monk would be the best for this, I was thinking originally of a divine hunter paladin because I like bows and the hunter idea :)
But LN zen archer monk is hard to kill at least IMO and can be deadly at combat. Also cool that the monk can really catch anyone who wants to run away.
Remember, Justicars don't kill innocent people casually. Samara allowed herself to be detained for 24 hours, but warned that if she isn't released by then, she'll have to kill anyone that stands in her way.
At the point where evil is allowed to succeed by the idle hands of the good, you have a hard time convincing me of their 'innocence.' I'm still pushing that Lawful Good be kept on the table, though, LN makes since to. Justicar law does seem more focused on righting wrongs, and protecting innocent then simple law for the sake of law.
And the person Samara was after was a sociopath who had murdered countless people.
I'm not buying evil as a quality of Samara. Gotta be twisting the situation.
Honestly, the only problem I see for you is finding a deity that would fit with the concept. Obviously, Asmodeus is the best fit, and he is LE. I can see Erastil as a strict god, supporting such a code, but it's focus would be shifted to nature, and there's loads of precedent in nature where animals back-down or die. Survival for the fittest. Still not LG.
Calistria. Heh. Anyway.
Remember, Justicars don't kill innocent people casually. Samara allowed herself to be detained for 24 hours, but warned that if she isn't released by then, she'll have to kill anyone that stands in her way.
At the point where evil is allowed to succeed by the idle hands of the good, you have a hard time convincing me of their 'innocence.' I'm still pushing that Lawful Good be kept on the table, though, LN makes since to. Justicar law does seem more focused on righting wrongs, and protecting innocent then simple law for the sake of law.
And the person Samara was after was a sociopath who had murdered countless people.
I'm not buying evil as a quality of Samara. Gotta be twisting the situation.
Honestly, the only problem I see for you is finding a deity that would fit with the concept. Obviously, Asmodeus is the best fit, and he is LE. I can see Erastil as a strict god, supporting such a code, but it's focus would be shifted to nature, and there's loads of precedent in nature where animals back-down or die. Survival for the fittest. Still not LG.
Calistria. Heh. Anyway.
Ah the god is no problem since it's a homebrew campaign with completely different gods. I have NG god with vengeance and such and LN deities with punishments and so on. So that's no issue.
Also 100% agreed, samara is the complete opposite of evil, she is good but also a fanatic or 100% lawful with her asari code. 5000 different rules which addresses every single possible situation so she has no moment where she is in doubt.
I do not believe that the Asari Justicars code can be adequately captured by a single alignment.
Lets examine the example where she allowed herself to be detained for 24 hours before she would have to kill anyone who stood in her way. Allowing herself to be detained was a lawful neutral act as it was permissible by her code to delay up to that amount of time. Providing the warning was a good act. If she had then made good on her threat that would have been a lawful evil act simply because she knew an entire precinct of cops might try to stop her and not all of them could possibly be corrupt.
The only way I would allow this in a game is if the entire code could be rewritten into a single alignment and then used for reference and, frankly, that does not seem possible.
I do not believe that the Asari Justicars code can be adequately captured by a single alignment.
Lets examine the example where she allowed herself to be detained for 24 hours before she would have to kill anyone who stood in her way. Allowing herself to be detained was a lawful neutral act as it was permissible by her code to delay up to that amount of time. Providing the warning was a good act. If she had then made good on her threat that would have been a lawful evil act simply because she knew an entire precinct of cops might try to stop her and not all of them could possibly be corrupt.
The only way I would allow this in a game is if the entire code could be rewritten into a single alignment and then used for reference and, frankly, that does not seem possible.
Wouldn't that be LN if you do both LG and LE acts? I mean they do balance it? I do agree that capturing the code is impossible and its mostly just lawful if there was such an alignment.
Your reasoning never takes into account why she was there and what she was doing in the first place. She isn't arbitrarily going to kill the good guys, and their sitting around while a killer roams free make for more consideration for Samara than what i feel you are giving her.
Also, their reason for detaining her in the first place is more political than lawful or good.
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This is just how I run things so it may be different for other tables. It doesnt matter who the justicar is after, if she is willing to kill an innocent person in pursuit of her goal she is putting law and order above a single life. For me a good person does whatever possible to avoid that. Good is supposed to value and respect life. Since I beleive a justicar will take action to avoid killing innocents but ultimately will do so in favor of law, it makes the justicar LN. Not evil because a justicars goal is for the greater good and doesnt neccesarily kill arbirtarily. The more I think about it the inquisitor is sounding like a really good option.