In 3.5 Hydras had the ability to take multiple attacks of opportunity based on the number of heads that they had. Is this still the case in Pathfinder, or does the Pathfinder hydra simply use combat reflexes as written? sorry for the weird question, just really wanted to clarify this.
In 3.5 Hydras had the ability to take multiple attacks of opportunity based on the number of heads that they had. Is this still the case in Pathfinder, or does the Pathfinder hydra simply use combat reflexes as written? sorry for the weird question, just really wanted to clarify this.
As you state yourself, they simply use combat reflexes as written. Pathfinder has not included the special rule for a hydra's combat reflexes.
Whether it was intentional that they only gain 2 AoOs per round or not, your guess is as good as mine.
About the only monster type they kept "above" CR was dragons.
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Yes, it can only make two AoOs per round. Period.
I hate hydras as written. Way too easy to kill. They're supposed to be nearly epic. In mythology, there was only ONE hydra and it took a demigod to kill it (and even Hercules couldn't do it without an assistant and the use of Athena's magical sword, clearly an artifact in its own right).
Now in recent editions, hydras are a joke. CR 4? Really? Seriously???
Kill it by dealing a pathetic 47 HP to the body (half a dozen decent arrows, spears, thrown axes, whatever). Or have the fighter charge it (No AoO) and Vital Strike it while the rogue fires a couple Rapid Shots and the mage adds a couple Magic Missiles - might kill it in one round.
Or just deliberately deal 5 HP damage to each head in your first 5 attacks and it dies. Burn the stumps with a single Burning Hands spell and collect your XP.
Pathetic.
I suggest a few tweaks.
Next, double the HP of the heads, which also means it takes 10 HP of fire or acid damage to prevent the regeneration.
Next, let the hydra use its heads against ranged attacks like a Mirror Image spell - it holds its heads (and long serpentine necks) low and in front of its delicate body, writhing and flailing around, so that any missiles fired at the body have a chance to hit a head instead. Just like Magic Missile, count the number of heads and add 1 for the body, then roll a die with that many sides, on a ONE you hit the body, anything else, you hit a head.
Next, give its body Fast Healing 5+X where X is the number of heads.
Next, add some decent poison to its bites - the mythological Hydra had such nasty poison that even stepping in a drop that spilled on the ground could kill a man. I don't recommend going that lethal, but a little ordinary poison is not out of type for a hydra. This should do nicely (it's weak, but with so many possible bite attacks, it could quickly turn into something with such a high DC and duration that it could be very lethal): Bite—injury; save DC 18; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d3 Constitution damage; cure 2 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Finally, give EACH HEAD the use of Combat Reflexes so every head can make 2 AoOs every round, and let them act independently so that anyone charging the body is not protected from AoOs from the heads (in the same way that charging an orc surrounded by 5 of his friends would not prevent AoOs from the orc's friends).
Now make it CR 10 (with 5 heads) or higher with more heads.
Problem is, a 10th level group can handle this quite easily too, so maybe add in a couple extra tricks. Like let it spit its venom as a ranged touch attack, or let it have a burst of energy once every 1d4 rounds where it can move at triple its normal speed (allowing it to move 60' or even 120' with a charge and still Pounce for a full set of bites on some unsuspecting victim).
That will get Hercules' attention...
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Well, let's start by saying you need to re-read the rules for Combat Reflexes, since a Hydra has reach, and its weapon is always ready, so it will get an AoO on that charging Barbarian, unless the Barbarian is using a reach weapon for their charge attack.
And, while it isn't that bright with an Int 2, I could easily see it knowing that tripping someone coming up to beat on it would be good, the food is on the ground and easy to bite without it biting back. Then, on its turn, all five heads get to take a bite out of Barbie.
Well, let's start by saying you need to re-read the rules for Combat Reflexes, since a Hydra has reach, and its weapon is always ready, so it will get an AoO on that charging Barbarian, unless the Barbarian is using a reach weapon for their charge attack.
DM_Blake (surprisingly) has the rather common misconception that movement during a charge does not provoke an AoO. This has been an issue since 3.0, due to the chart in the Combat chapter that denotes what actions provoke AoO's. Charge is listed as "No", because it does not in itself provoke AoO's. Movement during a charge still can of course, but a lot of players at the beginning of 3.0 saw that chart entry and ran with it. Here's the rules quote that can help make it clear:
Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.
Charging, as a certain action you can perform, does not provoke. Moving out of a threatened square, while you happen to be charging, still provokes.
Edit: Go Paizo - here's the #1 subscript on the table of actions/AoOs:
1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity.
It is interesting to learn that the hydra has apparently lost its massive number of AoOs. This actually might make hydra battles more interesting since PCs might be more willing to enter melee instead of just staying away and using ranged attacks.
Anything with lots of attacks and pounce can be pretty dangerous, and the cryo and pyro versions seem even nastier. It does seem a little disappointing that "kill the body and the heads will die" is probably the best strategy since it prevents the unique mechanic of severing the heads from coming into play much. Giving the hydra more fast healing per head might help with that. I guess that fast healing at 2-4 times the number of heads might be enough to encourage some head severing heroics. I guess the DM could also just remove the option of killing the body entirely though that might be tough on parties without a powerful melee PC.
Uhh... the Hydra entry in the 3.5 MM has several examples at various CR. The first one is a 5-headed hydra that is CR... 4!! And it lists the chryo- and pyro-versions at CR 6.
Just like in the Bestiary.
The PF entry tells you how to create more powerful hydras by increasing Hit Dice. As with many other creatures, the designers did not think it was necessary to throw in an entry for every tiny variant, since the rules for advancing monsters are so freaking simplified.
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The 3.5 hydra did NOT get more than one attack per AoO. That was a sadly common and utterly outrageous reading of the text, sure to auto-kill anyone who provoked if they were about the hydra's CR in level.
A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.
Hydras only have Dex 12 (so they need it as a bonus feat they don't even qualify for it otherwise!); that text is just saying "instead of 1 + Dex bonus AoOs per round, the Hydra gets as many AoOs as it has heads." I wish it were written better, but that's pretty clearly the intent.
I still can't believe there's people who think a CR 4 creature was supposed to get five attacks of +6 to hit d10+3 damage (on top of the 5 it gets on its own turn) if the level 4 Fighter (~4d10+8 hp vs. up to 5d10+15 damage....yeah) dared to move within its 10 ft reach or sunder one of its heads without having paid the feat tax on Imp. Sunder.
The 3.5 hydra did NOT get more than one attack per AoO. That was a sadly common and utterly outrageous reading of the text, sure to auto-kill anyone who provoked if they were about the hydra's CR in level.
A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.Hydras only have Dex 12 (so they need it as a bonus feat they don't even qualify for it otherwise!); that text is just saying "instead of 1 + Dex bonus AoOs per round, the Hydra gets as many AoOs as it has heads." I wish it were written better, but that's pretty clearly the intent.
I still can't believe there's people who think a CR 4 creature was supposed to get five attacks of +6 to hit d10+3 damage (on top of the 5 it gets on its own turn) if the level 4 Fighter (~4d10+8 hp vs. up to 5d10+15 damage....yeah) dared to move within its 10 ft reach or sunder one of its heads without having paid the feat tax on Imp. Sunder.
Who stated that? As far as i can tell no one said anything to that nature. the entire thread was just because I thought it a bit of an injustice to remove the extra AoO's from having 5+ heads. Only getting 2 AoO's a round is kinda lame for a multi-headed monster.
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Oh, thought that's what you were stating, sorry.
This is probably the first thread on the topic I've found w/o anyone claiming that, then.
That 3.5 quote does seem to read that way, even if it is not RAI. I can see how that was the common belief.
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I've heard that argument before, StreamOfTheSky. It's as wrong now as it was then. Hydras truly were power houses back in the day capable of biting with all their heads on a single AoO, just like they could bite with all their heads as a Standard Action.
But I'll not debate it further here, as it would be off-topic.