Both items are equally good / bad

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Using this button during voting should not count as casting a vote. I assume a lot of people are doing this due to the constant stream of equally bad items I am seeing paired together.

[Pirate Rob]

That would be a nice bit of additional encouragement to actually make a decision.

[137ben]

I disagree. I am worried that making it not count would result in "statistical noise" as people choose randomly among equally good/bad items.

Then again, the two times I've used it were on very bad items, so it may not matter in the end.

[RonarsCorruption]

'statistical noise' is actually good for the system. Remember, every time that good/bad item is compared to an equal one, it will be compared to a vastly better/worse one next. Consider public voting to be a shake up - that noise is a shake, and not voting is declining to.

[137ben]

RonarsCorruption wrote:

'statistical noise' is actually good for the system. Remember, every time that good/bad item is compared to an equal one, it will be compared to a vastly better/worse one next. Consider public voting to be a shake up - that noise is a shake, and not voting is declining to.

Okay, you've convinced me.

[MrCab]

So what is the guidence for these situations?

1 - Two DQable items.

2 - A spell in a can, technically a valid submission but with auto reject on its merry way, against a DQed item.

3 - Two obvious auto-rejects.

I've seen a few pairings of item that is valid in that it is a magic item but it's a bad one, up against an item that falls into auto reject as missing charges, slotted in a non-existant slot, maybe it's not even a wonderous item. Does voting for the technically legal item in this case harm "good" entries?

[cwslyclgh]

1. report both items to Sean and hit the equally bad option is what I would do.

2. report the DQ to Sean and vote for the legal, although distasteful item.

3. vote for the least distasteful item.

[Ross Byers]

MrCab wrote:

I've seen a few pairings of item that is valid in that it is a magic item but it's a bad one, up against an item that falls into auto reject as missing charges, slotted in a non-existant slot, maybe it's not even a wonderous item. Does voting for the technically legal item in this case harm "good" entries?

Only the one that isn't a wondrous item is actually DQable. The only things that you should report for breaking the contest rules are:

1) Not a wondrous item
2) Not anonymous
3) Over word count
3a) Over word count if missing information is added. For instance, a 298 word entry that omitted the name from the item body, and had a 4 word name. Or a 297 word entry that omitted construction requirements (because even 'Requirements Craft Wondrous Item' would put it over.) Or someone who clearly misused spacing and punctuation to mislead the word counter, e.g. 'Auraconjuration[evil]' instead of 'Aura conjuration [evil]'.
4) Does not conform to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. (This is kinda broad. I don't think it is worth reporting something because they refer to Spot checks, but YMMV.)
5) Plagarism
6) Uses rules, monsters, or copyrighted material from publishers other than Paizo.

Otherwise, cwslyclgh is correct: you should report things that actually break the contest rules to Paizo. Otherwise, voting for the least-bad item is the right thing to do.

And I don't want to promise too much here, but if the voting works the same way it did last year, it shouldn't matter if you voted for or against the DQ in case 2: when an item is removed from voting comparisons with it cease to be valid. I'd err on the side of voting for the least sucky item, just to be safe in case the voting system has changed or the judges decide the item should not be DQed.

[cwslyclgh]

MrCab wrote:

Does voting for the technically legal item in this case harm "good" entries?

It should not, it only affects the ranking of that item vs. the particular other item it is paired with... as long as others still vote against it when it is paired against legitimate items, it will still fall to the bottom.

[Lightminder]

It would be good to have a drop down with deal breakers so you could check them off and help cull the field a little for the judges. An example left option has pricing issues, brutal grammar, spelling a can, backstory overmuch, right option is not in format and etc...

[Landon Cole]

I don't think any of those are necessary, tbh - they'll be picked up by the voting system and will likely lose out in the cull.

[Bobson]

Lightminder wrote:

It would be good to have a drop down with deal breakers so you could check them off and help cull the field a little for the judges. An example left option has pricing issues, brutal grammar, spelling a can, backstory overmuch, right option is not in format and etc...

None of those are actually disqualifying problems. Reasons to downvote, yes. But as Landon said, the voting system will see all those downvotes and make them easy to cull.

[Monica Marlowe]

In the end, it really does no lasting harm to just pick one. If they are both equally bad or good, they will end up in the same general area in the final listings and the Paizo Judges will make the official call. Remember, we're helping them out by pushing the cream to the top, no one's really too worried about what's in the basement.

[Feros]

mamaursula wrote:

In the end, it really does no lasting harm to just pick one. If they are both equally bad or good, they will end up in the same general area in the final listings and the Paizo Judges will make the official call. Remember, we're helping them out by pushing the cream to the top, no one's really too worried about what's in the basement.

Unless your voting habits make you go down into the basement...over and over and over...

;)

[Vanessa Hoskins]

I try and pick one or the other regardless. If it's a DQ item, then I'll report it, but most of them that tempt me to hit the "equal" button are just bad or poorly formatted.

I'm actually seeing more viable items this year than last, but maybe I'm just lucky.

[Monica Marlowe]

Feros wrote:

mamaursula wrote:

In the end, it really does no lasting harm to just pick one. If they are both equally bad or good, they will end up in the same general area in the final listings and the Paizo Judges will make the official call. Remember, we're helping them out by pushing the cream to the top, no one's really too worried about what's in the basement.

Unless your voting habits make you go down into the basement...over and over and over...

;)

Feros, you know me, I live in the basement and visit the gutters on my nights out.

[cwslyclgh]

Andrew Hoskins wrote:

I'm actually seeing more viable items this year than last, but maybe I'm just lucky.

Me too, unfortunately 'viable' doesn't necessarily mean 'good'

[shiiktan]

I remember a discussion on one thread about how there must be magic to do mundane tasks, even if the spells aren't listed in the rules.

Now I'm voting between a blacksmithing and farming item.

[cwslyclgh]

Items such as those are perfectly logical to exist in a world with magic... I don't think that a item that helps farmers grow more crops is all that 'superstar' though...

[Ross Byers]

Yeah. The laundry stone is the kind of item that almost certainly exists in the world.
It is not suited to adventurers, and certainly not for RPG Superstar.

(Similarly, even an item that clearly helps adventurers like a belt of giant strength is not a good item for RPG Superstar because it is boring. It certainly exists in the world, and it even serves a solid mechanical purpose in the game, but that doesn't make it Superstar.)

[kevin_video]

The problem I've got is that I've had a few items paired up that are both amazing, and I just cannot choose. I'd buy them both if I could. At the same time though I do wish they hadn't combined them. I'd rather have had two separate buttons for "equally bad" and "equally good". Sometimes you just can't make a decision as to which is the better of the two.

[Bobson]

kevin_video wrote:

The problem I've got is that I've had a few items paired up that are both amazing, and I just cannot choose. I'd buy them both if I could. At the same time though I do wish they hadn't combined them. I'd rather have had two separate buttons for "equally bad" and "equally good". Sometimes you just can't make a decision as to which is the better of the two.

There wouldn't be a point to separating them. All the button does is say "Pass".

The vote isn't "Is this a good item?", It's "Which is better, relative to each other?" Saying they're equal is equivalent to not voting at all, because it doesn't help place the two in relation to each other.